Color management, printing with InDesign CS3

RGB output devices (this includes essentially all inkjet printers from every manufacturer, when driven by the manufacturer print driver). Inkjet printers driven by a PostScript RIP are considered CMYK output devices, and thus this post does not apply to them.
When printing to RGB output devices from InDesign using the same ICC profiles and settings as in Photoshop, you still get crummy results, in terms of color, that differ from both IDCS2 and other Adobe applications including Photoshop CS3.
InDesign CS2 previously did all rasterizing and color space conversion in InDesign prior to submitting the print job to the OS. In CS3 this was changed to submit PostScript + colorspace information, which is then supposed to be normalized by the OS. Except that it doesn't work. Mac OS X drops the color space information.
The work around is to check "Print as Bitmap" in the advanced section of the IDCS3 print dialog. This causes IDCS3 to do the conversion and generate a bitmap prior to submitting to the OS, rather than depending on the OS to do color conversion or rasterizing, which is the default behavior with IDCS2. Thus you can use the same ICC profiles and print driver settings as with all other Adobe applications, if you choose this option.
Chris Murphy
co-author Real World Color Management 2e

Chris,
First, I am surprised that there has been no response to your post since there were more than a few complaints about the problem in this forum when IDCS3 first came out. So thank you for the solution to this vexing problem.
But I find some of the language in your post a bit problematic:
>InDesign CS2 previously did all rasterizing and color space conversion in InDesign prior to submitting the print job to the OS.
and
>... rather than depending on the OS to do color conversion or rasterizing, which is the default behavior with IDCS2.
The second quote seems incorrect on two counts:
1. It contradicts the first quoted statement.
2. In my mac IDCS2 (version 4.0.5 build 688) in the options area of the color management pane of the print dialog, the only available choice for the Color Handling pop up is "Let InDesign Determine Colors".
So the default behavior with IDCS2 seems to be "Let InDesign Determine Colors".
I am not at all taking issue with the main point of your post, which I welcome wholeheartedly. I just find the second quoted phrase from you post confusing. Can you please clarify.
Returning to your main point, are there any downsides of using the Print as Bitmap method?
Thanks,
Al

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Color management issues with Flash CS3, please help?

Hello everyone.
I am having issues with color from a Jpeg image produced in Photoshop CS4
after importing onto the stage in Flash CS3. The color in Flash changes the image to a lighter less saturated state. Yuk.
Here is a link to a screen capture to show you what's happening (for a bigger view):
http://www.rudytorres.com/color/weirdcolor.png
As you can see the front image is the Photoshop image showing the sRGB color profile embedded but Flash (behind) changes that color.
This client is quite picky and she will notice this difference.
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P.S. It's a button somewhere, Right?

Dougfly,
Only an hour wasted? Lucky you. Color is an incredibly complex subject. First, forget matching anything to the small LCD on the back of your camera. That's there as a basic guide and is affected by the internal jpg algorithm of your camera.
2nd, you're not really takeing a color photo with your digital camera, but three separate B&W images in a mosaic pattern, exposed thru separate red, green and blue filters. Actual color doesn't happen until that matrix is demosaiced in either your raw converter, or the in-camera processor (which relies heavily on camera settings, saturation, contrast, mode, etc.)
Having said the above, you can still get very good, predictable results in your workflow. I have a few color management articles on my website that you might find very helpful. Check out the Introduction to Color Management and Monitor and Printer Profiling. In my opinion, a monitor calibration device is the minimum entry fee if you want decent color.
http://www.dinagraphics.com/color_management.php
Lou

Printing problems with InDesign CS3 running on OS 10.6

I recently upgrade my old G4 Mac (OS 10.4) to a new Mac Mini running OS 10.6.6. I am still running CS3 and have encountered only one problem. When I print multiple copies documents from InDesign that contain several layers, each copy is processed separately, so that it can take several minutes just to send the print job to the printer if I'm printing over 20 copies. Then once the print job is processed the printer pauses between every copy, which is tripling the printing time. If I print a simpler document with only one or two layers it processes all the copies at once, as it should. I am printing on an Okidata 6150 color laser printer.
I never had this problem on my old computer. I'm wondering if this is one of the "unsupported" bugs of running CS3 on Snow Leopard. I want to make sure that this is a problem unique to running CS3 with Snow Leopard before I go ahead and upgrade to CS4 or CS5.
computer: Mac Mini core 2 duo 2.4 ghz processors, 4 gb RAM, printer: Okidata 6150 DN color laser printer.

Hi again Peter
It is version 5.0.4. I updated it when I newly installed it a week ago in my new computer, and then again updated it just yesterday.
I might mention that before I got my new computer, I was running Mac OS 4.11, and was using InDesign 3.0. I had bought InDesign CS3 about a year ago, but hadn't gotten around to using it since version 3.0 had been working fine, and I was used to it. Then, when I got my new computer, I decided it was time to use the newer version. However, while using InDesign 3.0 with the old Mac OS 4.11, a printing problem popped up there, too, a few months ago... and it also involved printing problems with Adobe Reader. I contacted Adobe, and they sent me a patch which fixed it. I will contact Adobe again if need be, although I thought I'd start here first to see if it was a common enough problem that someone might be able to provide a free and routine answer.
Richard
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 20:10:13 -0600
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Printing problems with InDesign CS3 with Mac OS 10.6.3
I neglected to ask what version of indesign CS3 you are using. I also
notice that Mac OSX 10.6.4 has just been released. It actually
addresses some CS3-specific issues, though they seem to be related to
launching the apps, not printing. It may be worth trying to update,
nonetheless.
Peter Truskier
Premedia Systems, Inc.
510-655-4454
>

Color Managed Printing from LR 1.3.1 Inverse of Proper PS CS3 10.0.1 Behavior

Please excuse the length and detail of this post - I'm just trying to be very clear...
Also, it would be helpful if anyone having definitive information about this topic could please email me directly in addition to replying to this forum topic, in order that I might know a response is available sooner (I am new to this forum, and may not check it regularly). My direct email address is [email protected].
Bottom Line: Color managed printing using my own custom-generated profiles from LR 1.3.1 to my Epson 7600 (on Intel-based Mac OS X 10.5.2, but saw the same behavior with 10.5.1) using the current Epson 7600 Intel/10.5x-compatible driver (3.09) is broken, and appears to be doing the exact opposite (inverse) of what I would expect and what PS CS3 does properly.
I am color management experienced, and have been using my custom-generated EPSON 7600 profiles with reliable soft proofing and printing success in PS (both CS2 and now CS3) for some time now. I know how the EPSON printer driver should be set relative to PS/LR print settings to indicate desired function. Images exported from LR to PS and printed from PS using "Photoshop Manages Color" and proper printer driver settings ("No Color Adjustment") print perfectly, so it isn't the Intel-based Mac, the OS, the driver, the profile, or me -- it is LR behaving badly.
The specific behavior is that printing from LR using "Managed by Printer" with the EPSON driver's Color Management setting set properly to "Colorsync" prints a reasonable-looking print, about what you would expect for canned profiles from the manufacturer, and in fact identical to the results obtained printing the same image from PS using "Printer Manages Color". So far so good. Switching to my specific custom profiles in LR and printing with the driver's CM setting set properly to "No Color Adjustment" yields results that are clearly whacked, for both LR settings of "Perceptual" and "Relative CM". Just for completeness and out of curiosity, I tried printing from LR using the same profile (once for "Perceptual" and once more for "Relative CM") with the EPSON driver's CM setting set IMPROPERLY to "Colorsync", and the results were much more in line with what you would expect - I would almost say it was "correct" output. This is why I used the phrase "inverse of proper behavior" in the subject line of this topic. Going one step further, trying this same set of improper settings in PS (PS print settings set to "Photoshop Manages Color" with either Perceptual or Rel CM selected, but using "Colorsync" rather than "No Color Adjustment" in the Color Management pane of the EPSON printer driver) yields whacked results as you would expect that look identical to the whacked results obtained from LR using "proper" settings.
I said above that the improper settings from LR yielded results that I would almost say were correct. "Almost" because the benchmark results rendered by PS using proper settings are slightly different - both "better" and closer to each other - than those rendered by LR using the improper settings. The diffs between the Perceptual and Rel CM prints from LR using improper settings showed more marked differences in tone/contrast/saturation than the diffs observed between the Perceptual and Rel CM prints from PS using proper settings - the image itself was in-gamut enough that diffs between Perceptual and Rel CM in the proper PS prints were quite subtle. Even though the improper LR prints were slightly inferior to the proper PS prints, the improper LR prints were still within tolerances of what you might expect, and still better (in terms of color matching) than the "Managed by Printer" print from LR. At first guess, I would attribute this (the improper LR prints being inferior to the proper PS prints) to the CMM being used by LR being different from (inferior to) the CMM I have selected for use in PS (that being "Adobe (ACE)"). I can live with the LR CMM being slightly different from that use

(Here's the 2nd half of my post...)
I said above that the improper settings from LR yielded results that I would almost say were correct. "Almost" because the benchmark results rendered by PS using proper settings are slightly different - both "better" and closer to each other - than those rendered by LR using the improper settings. The diffs between the Perceptual and Rel CM prints from LR using improper settings showed more marked differences in tone/contrast/saturation than the diffs observed between the Perceptual and Rel CM prints from PS using proper settings - the image itself was in-gamut enough that diffs between Perceptual and Rel CM in the proper PS prints were quite subtle. Even though the improper LR prints were slightly inferior to the proper PS prints, the improper LR prints were still within tolerances of what you might expect, and still better (in terms of color matching) than the "Managed by Printer" print from LR. At first guess, I would attribute this (the improper LR prints being inferior to the proper PS prints) to the CMM being used by LR being different from (inferior to) the CMM I have selected for use in PS (that being "Adobe (ACE)"). I can live with the LR CMM being slightly different from that used in PS - that is not the issue here. What is at issue is trying to determine why LR is clearly behaving differently than PS in this well-understood area of functionality, all other variables being the same. (And, incidentally, why am I not seeing other posts raising these same questions?)
My "workaround" is to use "Managed by Printer" for printing rough prints from LR and to do all other printing from PS, especially given the noted diffs in CMM performance between LR and PS and the fact that printing from PS also supports using Photokit Sharpener for high-quality prints. Still it would be nice to understand why this is happening in LR and to be able to print "decent" prints directly from LR when it seemed appropriate.
Any insights or suggestions will be very much appreciated. Please remember to reply to my direct email address ([email protected]) in addition to your public reply to this forum.
Thank you!
/eddie

Printing problems with InDesign CS3 with Mac OS 10.6.3

I am not new to InDesign... I have CS3... but I am brand new to Mac Snow Leopard (OS 10.6.3). Although I can open CS3 and use the application, I cannot print with it. None of my other applications has printing issues... just CS3. Any suggestions?
Richard

Hi again Peter
It is version 5.0.4. I updated it when I newly installed it a week ago in my new computer, and then again updated it just yesterday.
I might mention that before I got my new computer, I was running Mac OS 4.11, and was using InDesign 3.0. I had bought InDesign CS3 about a year ago, but hadn't gotten around to using it since version 3.0 had been working fine, and I was used to it. Then, when I got my new computer, I decided it was time to use the newer version. However, while using InDesign 3.0 with the old Mac OS 4.11, a printing problem popped up there, too, a few months ago... and it also involved printing problems with Adobe Reader. I contacted Adobe, and they sent me a patch which fixed it. I will contact Adobe again if need be, although I thought I'd start here first to see if it was a common enough problem that someone might be able to provide a free and routine answer.
Richard
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 20:10:13 -0600
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Printing problems with InDesign CS3 with Mac OS 10.6.3
I neglected to ask what version of indesign CS3 you are using. I also
notice that Mac OSX 10.6.4 has just been released. It actually
addresses some CS3-specific issues, though they seem to be related to
launching the apps, not printing. It may be worth trying to update,
nonetheless.
Peter Truskier
Premedia Systems, Inc.
510-655-4454
>

Colour Management Issue with PS CS3 and Leopard 10.5.2

Hi Everyone,
Since I have installed Leopard I am having colour management issues with Photoshop CS3 and my Canon i9950 printer.
My screen is calibrated with a Spyder and I used to ask Photoshop (in 10.4.11) to manage colour when printing and used the Spyder profile. Everything came out as I saw it on screen.
Now in leopard when I do the same thing everything comes out too yellow on the print. If I ask Photoshop to let the printer manage the colour it is too red. If I use the default colour management (photoshop managing the colour and it choosing the colour space it is better, but still too yellow).
Photoshop gives the hint to turn off colour management in the printer but there is no option for this and it also said the same thing before of course (when it worked in 10.4.11).
Any ideas?
Thanks.

>It was working perfectly in Tiger with the monitor profile.
You were lucky.
the monitor profile is so Photoshop can display your images correctly.
the working space is Adobe RGB, sRGB, BruceRGB, ect... these are all known color spaces so when the file goes to another computer there is a consistent color space for reference. If you use your monitor profile as a working space then nobody else knows what is going on with your file.
when you print you need to use the printer profile for the type of paper you are printing on this is supplied by the printer manufacturer. you can also have custom profiles made.
you need to read up on color management:
http://www.gballard.net/psd.html
http://digitaldog.net/

Network printing and Indesign cs3

Since updating to 10.5.3 network printing has not worked with indesign cs3. We are now using 10.5.4.
It worked with 10.4.x on the same network. I don't think the printer or the printer driver is the problem but if it matters we are using an hp deskjet 940c. Driver for the printer was updated in February when we purchased the macbook pro we are using.
I've read a bunch of stuff on this and given that it works in 10.4.x with the same printer, drivers, and application program, I'm forced to conclude the problem lies in the OS which is the only difference.
Any help you can give would be appreciated.

Hello Rich,
Can you explain how the printer is networked. Is it shared by another or does it have its own ip address? (Don't know the model so sorry for the question)
If it is a standalone networked printer, what connection method (protocol) do you use for the printer queue?
Are you able to print from other applications?
Can you post the last 10 entries of the cups error log. You can find this by opening the printer queue, clicking the work Printer in the menu bar and selecting 'Log & History'.
PaHu

What Mac operating systems work with Indesign CS3?

What Mac operating system will work with Indesign CS3? I have 10.5.8 and need to upgrade to 10.7 so that my new laser printer will work with my Mac.
If one buys a new Mac 10.8 or 10.9 will ID CS3 work?

Maybe…maybe not. It certainly won’t be supported and under no circumstance should you use migration assistant to move it to a new machine. With that I can almost assure you it won’t work.

Color managed printing from Photoshop CC 2014

It appears color managed printing has either changed significantly or is no longer possible with Photoshop CC 2014. We're able to turn off color management with both Photoshop CS6 and CC when printing to Canon iPFx400 series printers, but not with CC 2014. Has anyone encountered this issues and if so hopefully discovered a work around?

Im using OSX Mavericks. Photoshop CC 2014 was defaulting to Color Handing: Printer Manges Color in the print Dialog box. I was not use to this and didn't notice. Switching to photoshop manages colors grays out color matching in the printer settings. Im still not sure what has changed as all my profiles are way off with Photoshop CC 2014.

Color-managed printing to Epson 870

I have never succeeded in getting a color-managed print workflow to my Epson Stylus Photo 870 printer using PSE5 (or 4 or 3). The prints are consistently darker than what I see on screen, though the colors otherwise seem about right.
I'm pretty familiar with color management generally, and I have read the tutorials in the Missing Manual and at computer-darkroom.com. I will describe my recent experiments.
Perhaps someone who uses this printer (or a similar Epson printer) can offer some insight. What is noteworthy about these Epson printers is that they come with only a single ICC profile, rather than one profile per media type. The processing to compensate for media differences occurs within the driver. This complicates the color management story.
1. Computer setup: Windows XP SP2, Samsung SyncMaster 193P LCD display.
2. Monitor calibration: This monitor has programmable internal color conversion. I used the MagicTune utility to tune the monitor to sRGB. I then used Adobe Gamma to confirm that this is essentially an sRGB monitor; that is, the profile produced by Adobe Gamma yields an appearance that is indistinguishable from the standard sRGB profile.
3. Photos are JPEGs tagged as sRGB by the camera. I am printing them from PSE5 Organizer. Color management set to "Print" (AdobeRGB). Paper is Epson Glossy Photo Paper. Media type selected in the driver is Photo Paper.
In the following experiments, I varied the Print Space setting in PSE's Print Options and the Custom > Advanced color settings in the Epson driver.
Experiment 1: Print Space: "Same as Source". Driver: "ICM". Result: somewhat dark prints.
Experiment 2: Print Space: "Epson Stylus Photo 870". Driver: "No Color Adjust". Result: even darker prints, with a slight color cast.
Experiment 3: Print Space: "Epson Stylus Photo 870". Driver: "ICM". Result: same as experiment 3.
Experiment 4: Print Space: "Same as Source". Driver: "PhotoEnhance". Result: by far the closest to what I see on the screen, and (subjectively) the best rendition of the original scene.
Of course, experiment 4 is depending on some magic processing in the Epson driver, rather than being a true ICC color-managed workflow. I'd like to figure out why my attempts at a color-managed workflow aren't working right.

"So it seems that Organizer and Editor do color management differently when
printing.... I would not have expected this; it seems like a bug."
My Epson 870 finally died. But, while it was working I did manage to get it
to work very well in a fully color managed workflow. I calibrated my
monitor with a hardware calibration device. The generic 870 ICC profile
that came with the printer gave me prints that were too dark compared to my
calibrated monitor. I had a custom profile made for the printer for each
specific paper I use and that made all the difference. For PSE 3, I always
printed only from the editor and used a fully color managed work flow
specifying the custom printer profile as the print space. The Epson printer
driver was set to custom and in the advanced tab, the "No Color Adjustment"
setting for color management was selected.
I didn't like to print from Organizer because I didn't care for the way it
handled things. The creations portion of Organizer didn't pick up all the
organizer color settings either if I recall correctly. The different
behavior is not so much a bug as it is two different programs that are
packaged together and loosely interact -- Organizer began life as Adobe
Album.
I don't know about PSE 4 and 5 as I went to Photoshop CS2 instead of
upgrading PSE. I still have PSE 3 installed, but I seldom use it anymore.
I would have thought that the newer versions would have done something about
the Organizer printing issues but it sounds like that hasn't happened yet.

I bought a Mac PowerBook in 2008. It came with InDesign CS3. I did not use it. My computer was stolen in 2014. I had backed up the hard drive. I reinstalled on my new Mac laptop. I want to use the CS3 now. It will not download or install. What do I do?

I bought a Mac PowerBook in 2008. It came with InDesign CS3. I did not use it. My computer was stolen in 2014. I had backed up the hard drive. I reinstalled on my new Mac laptop. I want to use the CS3 now. It will not download or install. What do I do?

From where are you trying to download it?

InCopy CS2 Copyfitting with InDesign CS3, Version Cue CS3

Hello. We are using InCopy CS2 together with InDesign CS3 as part of an Version Cue CS3 workflow. Certain stories do not copyfit exactly in InCopy CS2. They copyfit properly in InDesign CS3, but when the assignment with these stories is opened in InCopy CS2, the copyfit is close, but not perfect. We never had this problem when we were using InDesign CS2.
Has anyone seen this problem; can anyone suggest a workaround? (Incidentally, The copyfit looks just fine when we open the file in InCopy CS3; but we are NOT using InCopy CS3, because it causes synchronization problems - it reports that files are open, when they are not. )
Thanks for your help - Chris

The text engines have changed from CS2 to CS3 and again with CS4.
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Bob

Problem with Indesign CS3 missing save as dialog box

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Help!!!

Trash preferences before re-installing. Also, try this weird procedure: open the equivalent dialog in one of the other Suite products on the same computer (assuming they're there). That's been known to solve the problem on Windows machines.
Dave

Crashes when printing from InDesign CS3

It used to be that when I tried to print in InDesignCS3 in my MAC 10.7.5; I would go to: Crash printing | Illustrator, InDesign | CS3, CS4 | Mac OS 10.7
the I was told to just delete the following files:
[Hard Drive]/Library/Printers/PPDs/contents/Resources/en.lproj
[Hard Drive]/Library/Printers/PPDs/contents/Resources/Zh_CN.lproj
[Hard Drive]/Library/Printers/PPDs/contents/Resources/Ja.lproj
[Hard Drive]/Library/Printers/PPDs/contents/Resources/ko.lproj
[Hard Drive]/Library/Printers/PPDs/contents/Resources/Zh_TW.lproj
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Problem adjusting color then printing with CS3 on Epson R300

I am running on a Dell quad core system with 3MB of ram and Vista 32bit and CS3. I am unable to alter the color of the image that prints. For example, if I reduce the saturation all the way down to get a B&W and print I get a print that looks like the original unaltered color print. Even if I save the B&W print and reload it back into CS3 and print I get the original color print.
As best I can tell this problem started when I loaded CS3 on top of CS. I tried printing using CS and CaptureNX and have the same problem.
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Chris, sorry for some off-topic comments,
Al, I'm referring to
James King
Engineering color at Adobe,
chapter 15 in
Ph.Green, L.Macdonald (Editors)
Colour Engineering
John Wiley & Sons, 2002
1989/1990 Adobe designed the PostScript Level 2
color concept with CIE-based device independent-colors.
Apple's ColorSync system development was started 1991
and announced 1993.
The International Color Consortium ICC was started in
spring 1993.
From these facts it is obvious that Adobe's concept
came very early. There was no need to change it, but some
features were added later.
Dr King emphasizes the importance of handling black in
CMYK workflows. The ICC had overlooked this - profile
to profile conversions in CMYK destroy the original black
generation. There are other design concepts for ICC profiles
which are IMO rather doubtful: mainly the very complex
number and data format system and the definition of the
location of modules by byte offsets. Compared to these
structures, PostScript is simple and readable (ASCII).
All this lead me to the conclusion that PostScript color
management is probably not bad.
'Adobe' is not the same as 'PostScript':
I found, that host based Acrobat CMM for the OKI printer
C9600 lead to severe bugs for the black generation.
This is described here in chapter 1:
http://www.fho-emden.de/~hoffmann/oki-ps-28082005.pdf
Then I changed he strategy systematically: everything
printer based by PostScript. ICC profiles are downloaded
to the harddisk. Color Rendering Dictionaries (output)
and CSAs (input) are calculated in the printer.
If the printer is equipped with genuine Adobe PostScript 3
('level' no more used) then one can expect that it works
correctly. It is OK for Acrobat and PageMaker but not
for InDesign (tested for CS2 and Acrobat7).
Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann

Color management, printing with InDesign CS3

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