Color option of the Tone Curve of LR 5.2?

Where is it? It was there in 5.0 and 4.4.

You have to click on the curve icon at the bottom right of the Tone Curve panel

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Which do you prefer: Increasing exposure or adjusting the tone curve?

I'd like to know how people here handle their images.
I use a Nikon D7100 in camera RAW. In camera my images are always in balance. In LR, if I select Auto Tone in Basics invariably it will adjust the exposure. I tend to adjust exposure near last in my workflow because I assume my camera had the exposure setting right. When I feel I need to adjust the exposure my first stop is the Tone Curve. I'm wondering a couple of things:
1) I know we edit by the specifics of each photo, but generally do you make adjustments to Exposure or the Tone Curve first?
2) Is there a reason or a time to prefer one over the other?
Thanks,

My recommendation:
(note: I am interpreting "exposure", in your question, to mean "dynamic range at right wall of histogram", i.e. white point)
Adjust basics exposure first (before tone/point curve), but note: you may not be able to go all the way using the exposure slider. Next stop (if necessary): +whites, but note: it may not be optimal to go all the way using whites. Final stop (if necessary): cinch in the the exposure by dragging white point to the left via the point curve.
Rationale: basics have some intelligence and magic that tone curve does not. If you do tone curve first, you've missed some opportunities..
Still a begging question: how much exposure vs. whites vs. tone curve (point curve).
Note: go easy on the contrast at first, and assure blacks are sufficiently seated using blacks slider (and maybe tone/point curve).
Likewise, cranking whites up will increase global contrast, so if you take a shot at blacks and whites before contrast, then you may avoid a common mistake: radically wrong contrast due to adjusting before establishing ballpark black & white slider values.
Anyway, be aware that increased PV2012 exposure (and/or whites) is designed to be used with -highlights (note: there is no "brightness" slider), and to avoid making things too washed out (or over-jamming the highlights) it may be desirable to substitute +whites and/or +shadows for some +exposure.
Note: tones may gang up (on the right side of the histogram) in a non-optimal way when using +exposure and/or +whites, in which case it may be better to use point curve for white point adjustment (e.g. leftward drag). For example, sometimes the whites will be overly compressed if you don't bring white point in on the curve instead.
Rules of thumb:
Most of my normal photos end up with:
+exposure (to fully brighten)
+whites (for full dynamic range without excessive exposure setting)
-highlights (for dialing back +exposure and/or +whites)
+shadows (so -blacks and doesn't leave image with overly dark shadows)
-blacks (for full dynamic range without needing as much contrast)
*contrast: depends - if overly contrasty to begin with (or a lot of -blacks and/or +whites are employed), this usually gets dialed back; if underly contrasty to begin with (or +blacks and/or -whites have been employed), this usually gets bumped up.
(for abnormal photos or when desiring abnormal results - anything goes..).
Other common mistakes (in addition to wrong contrast and/or non-optimal balance between exposure & whites..):
trying to recover highlights via -whites. try -highlights (and maybe +whites) before -whites.
Warning signs:
if you have very high values for +shadows and -highlights, you may have contrast set too high.
if you have a positive value for highlights, you may have contrast/exposure/whites too low.
if you have a negative value for shadows, you may have contrast too low, or blacks/exposure too high.
Miscellaneous:
Try +clarity and +saturation (and/or +vibrance) to pump it up, if reduced contrast and/or increased exposure has left it looking a little washed out.. (likewise, -saturation if +contrast has left it looking a little too "rich"..).
You already know this, but for the sake of completeness (and other readers): you can learn by clicking 'Auto Tone' "button". You may need to dial back the exposure afterward etc. but it can be very educational none-the-less..
Of course, you can always fine-tune tone using tone curve (e.g. if image is just way overbright, like some snow shots, try tugging the midpoint downward..).
Don't forget the locals for final spot toning.
In case you haven't gleaned yet, adjusting via PV2012 is not the same as you might think at first - you don't just set exposure/black/white points and leave them, and then adjust everything else. e.g. -highlights pulls white point down more than -whites does (but +whites brings white point back up, which means you usually need to adjust in tandem..), so be prepared for a lot of back n' forth, to lessen with experience..
PS - There are tutorial videos galore, but at the risk of opposing Adobe and their sycophants, be forewarned: some are geared to how they wished PV2012 was (simple), and not to how it really is (interdependent image-dependent settings..) - examples:
top-down is touted, but that ignores black/white point issues which can lead to radically wrong contrast (and/or exposure) setting.
often, adjustment of blacks is considered optional/fine-tuning, but blacks sometimes need large value adjustment, and dramatically impacts contrast & shadow brightness..
often, adjustment of whites is considered optional/fine-tuning, but sometimes optimal toning can only be had by using a large whites value adjustment, which dramatically impacts contrast, and exposure..
cteavin wrote:
I tend to adjust exposure near last in my workflow because I assume my camera had the exposure setting right.
In case not clear yet, adjusting exposure and/or whites (and/or white point on curve) and all the rest is often done to turn an image "with potential" into a very nice image, not just to compensate for in-camera exposure imperfection. I have lots of under-exposed images that end with -exposure (granted, usually +whites), and vice-versas.. That said, if you don't know whether to crank it up or down, there is something to be said for passing until you do..
Lastly, for emphasis: exposure slider is an intelligent slider. It behaves more like normal exposure adjusters at lower values, and more like brightness adjusters at higher values (has clipping protection and highlight roll-off logic which kicks in as you crank it up..). So, it's a mistake to think of adjusting it just to make up for non-optimal camera exposure setting.
Sorry for verbose answer, but there is really no short answer which doesn't run the risk of being bad advice: best way to adjust "exposure" depends...
Cheers,
Rob

Fix 'Recovery' slider & add 'Color Correction' slider to Tone Curve

My requests:
1.) Please change the behavior of the 'Recovery' slider so that it attacks very-blown-out-highlights more rigorously than less-blown-out-highlights.
2.) Please add a 'Color Correction' slider to the Tone Curve that is analogous to the 'Color Correction' slider built into the 'Shadows/Highlights' tool in Adobe Photoshop & Apple Aperture.
To more clearly understand what I'm asking for, let me compare Aperture vs. LR's handling of Highlight Recovery, and why I prefer how Aperture recovers my highlights with its Shadows/Highlights tool vs. how LR recovers my highlights with the 'Recovery' slider OR Tone Curve.
1.) Aperture's 'Shadows/Highlights' tool recovers highlights by attacking the brightest parts of the highlights more harshly than the lesser bright parts of the highlights (th extent of luminosities attacked is adjustable using the 'High Tonal Width' slider). LR's "Recovery' tool doesn't seem to, among highlights, preferentially attack the brighter parts of the highlights over the less bright highlights. In fact, sometimes it leaves THE brightest parts of my image nearly untouched! I've posted an image below that shows this.
2.) Aperture's 'Highlights' tool recovers highlights WHILE maintaining color saturation (you can control the extent to which this saturation is maintained using the 'Color Correction' slider under Advanced settings fo the Shadows/Highlights tool). LR's 'Highlights' within the Tone Curve desaturates colors as highlights are 'recovered' by bringing 'Highlights' down. Again, I've posted an image below that shows this.
Here is an image that clearly shows the different behaviors of Aperture's Shadows/Highlights tool vs. LR's Recovery tool vs. LR's 'Highlights' slider within the Tone Curve:
http://web.mac.com/rishisanyal/Lightroom/HighlightRecovery_LRvsAperture.jpg
I believe that LR's 'Recovery' slider has much room for improvement (i.e. attack the blown-out highlights more harshly than the less-blown-out highlights), and the addition, to LR's Tone Curve, of a similar 'Color Correction' slider as Aperture's & PS CS3's very own 'Shadows/Highlights' tools have, would be very welcome.
Thank you for your consideration,
Rishi

More for your eyes to feast on:
http://web.mac.com/rishisanyal/Lightroom/HighlightRecovery_LRvsAperture_2.jpg
http://web.mac.com/rishisanyal/Lightroom/LR_FailsToDecreaseBlownOutHighlights.jpg
Funny thing is, LR just seems unwilling to touch (255,255,255) blown-out highlights. In all my test images with a blown-out sun, LR leaves the sun at (255,255,255) after all combinations of exposure, recovery, and Tone Curve manipulations. Whereas Aperture will bring it down to something like (128,128,128). Which seems more logical, to me, if one is trying to darken the image or darken highlights... right?
Also, if you look at the Seattle & Mt. Rainier image, no matter what I try, LR will not get rid of that brighter 'halo' to the upper left of Mt. Rainier. It just won't! 'Recovery' ends up highlighting just that bubble, and decreasing the Highlights in the Tone Curve just turns it into a grey, desaturated, halo. I'm telling, it just won't get rid of that halo! It has a love affair with it! :)
Aperture immediately gets rid of it with its Highlight slider, and Photoshop's 'Shadows/Highlights' tool also gets rid of it after a bit of manipulations/tweaking.
Now, I try to avoid Aperture at all costs, but, for all these images, seems like I need to use Aperture as my 'external editor' just to fix the highlights!
Any suggestions are very much welcome & appreciated.

Does the Tone Curve operate in RGB or Lab?

I was wondering if the Tone Curve of LR works in the RGB color space, or if it is designed to only affect the L component of Lab.

(Andrew_Rodney) wrote:
This new PDF might be useful to the discussion too:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/Curves.shtml
Looks like the file has been removed. Does anyone have a copy or another link?
Been fighting with some images recently, getting yellow faces when increasing contrast (curves or slider).

I have lost my "Basic" panel in the Develop module and can't figure out how to get it back. My right panel goes from the Histogram straight to the Tone Curve panel. My Basic panel should be below the Histogram. Any ideas how to get it back. I have even

I have lost my "Basic" panel in the Develop module and can't figure out how to get it back. My right panel goes from the Histogram straight to the Tone Curve panel. My Basic panel should be below the Histogram. Any ideas how to get it back. I have even uninstalled my lightroom and reinstalled it with same issue. Help!!!

Right click on or near one of the other headers and a pop-up will appear and you will be able to select the Basic Panel for viewing.

During initial setup, I deleted the additional colored options in the Calender application. How do I get those colored options back? Thank you!!

During initial setup, I deleted the additional colored options in the Calender application. How do I get those colored options back? Thank you!!

Sounds like you have the print dialog minimised, as shown.
If you click the triangle next to the printer name, this will expand the print dialog and from this view you can see all the menu options as mentioned in the guide.

Option for Aggresive tone curve

I REALLY like the tone curve control in LR. However....I have become quite adept at using a traditional tone curve very aggressively. I would like to suggest the following change to the tone curve:
Keep it as it is, BUT put a control next to it, that if selected, will allow for traditional point type curve control with no "Safety" limits. Some times I need to be more aggressive with my curves to get the desired look. I am not talking about a solarized/negative/cross processed look (though that would be one use). I just need to be able to really separate tones some times and the current tools can be a bit restricting

You'll have to forgive me for sounding a bit novice in what I'm about to say, but, keep in mind that I work with 16-bit film scans, not digital camera RAWs...
LR looks exactly like ACR 4 (not sure which one was the chicken or the egg, since I've never used ACR before), so, my next question is...
If they ported pretty much everything over from ACR (or the other way 'round), why couldn't they have also ported over the ability to adjust points on the Tone Curve?! And given that LR *can* work with point Tone Curve presets, isn't it really just a matter of enabling it at this point, or just porting over from ACR 4?
Editing the endpoints would be extremely essential for blown-out highlights in my film scans...
-Rishi

Abandon the Tone Curve?

I am finding that the new sliders in LR4 are extremely effective. I am wondering if routine Tone Curve adjustments are helpful any more. How do you feel about using the Basic Sliders for adjustments, and not using the Tone Curve? What would I be giving up by abandoning the Tone Curve?

EricBier wrote:
Jeff,
... I am at a loss to achieve precision using the Tone Curve in Lightroom since any move affects the entire image creating undesireable effects in areas I am not focused on. If I do not go to Photoshop, I tend to use the Adjustment Brush or the Graduated Filter in Lightroom to affect different areas differently, after setting the Basic Sliders.
In general, you are right--I find it best to go to PS for localized tone curve adjustments. But there are a surprising number of special cases where judicious maipulation of the LR curve can affect only the area you want affected.
For example, its an easy matter to bring out sky detail when photographing dark aircraft from below by increasing the curve slope in the bright region and restoring the curve shape at the mid and dark tones. This basically increases sky contrast (and detail) in a way that is not possible with other LR adjustments.
For the last few years I've been teaching a Photoshop class that emphasizes curves techniques like that in PS. I'm a new LR user and was surprised at how many images can be improved even without masks and with the relatively crude curve adjustments of LR.

Setting White/Black Points using the Tone Curve

I'm trying to set white/black points using the tone curve, but when I try to slide either of the end points of the line in the tone curve tool I can't get them to move. Could those be locked somehow...?

That's what it is supposed to do. Without the sliders, you are working with the curve itself. Now you have direct control of the curve, and can drag any part of it. Have you considered setting your white and black points using the whites and blacks in the basic panel while holding down the alt/opt key? I suppose the reason it says point curve is because that icon is what you used to switch to the point curve.

Where are the Tone Curve presets in the Lightroom Presets folder?

Hi
I have recenty had to reinstall all my software, and manged to find most of my old Lightroom settings in the Lightroom Presets folder (inside the Appdata folder on a PC) but I seem to have lost my custom tone curves.
Do you know which folder they should be in (indise the Lightroom Presets folder)
Thanks in advance
PS: I STILL don't understand why there are TWO comminty forums for Lightroom; it just doesn't make sense to me?!
Edward

Edward Allen wrote:
PS: I STILL don't understand why there are TWO comminty forums for Lightroom; it just doesn't make sense to me?!
You aren't the only one, and neither is going away any time soon.

RGB Channel unavailable in Camera Raw under point in the Tones Curve

How can I use the the RGB channel in Camera Raw under Tone Curve?

Hi yariel83,
Make sure under the Camera Calibration tab that the Process is set to 2012.

I have a Dead Spot in the Tone Curve

I have noticed when using a tablet while working in LR5 I have a dead spot in the upper part of the curve near the highlights portion. I thought it was just a result of my tablet being old and a cheaper model. I tested it with a new Intuos 5 Touch and had the same problem. I go to drag down or up on the upper part of the curve and it doesn't move or hangs up. It happens in all RGB channels also. Has anyone else had this problem or know why this happens? Thanks!

Try:
- Reset the iOS device. Nothing will be lost
Reset iOS device: Hold down the On/Off button and the Home button at the same time for at
least ten seconds, until the Apple logo appears.
- Reset all settings
Go to Settings > General > Reset and tap Reset All Settings.
All your preferences and settings are reset. Information (such as contacts and calendars) and media (such as songs and videos) aren’t affected.
- Restore from backup. See:
iOS: Back up and restore your iOS device with iCloud or iTunes
- Restore to factory settings/new iOS device.
If still problem, make an appointment at the Genius Bar of an Apple store since it appears you have a hardware problem.

I am working in the Develop module of Lightroom 5 and have accidentally bumped a setting and lost the Basic menu and the option to retrieve it. "Tone curve" is directly under the tool bar now. How can I retrieve the "Basic" menu?

How can I retrieve the "Basic" menu on Lightroom 5? I accidentally bumped something while working in the Develop module of Lightroom 5, and now the Tone Curve menu is directly under the Tool Bar, with no option to click on "Basic."

Right-click on Tone Curve and choose basic again or press Ctrl+1 in Develop.
On Mac (Control-Click or Cmd+1)

Custom tone curve

When I adjust RGB values on the curve (eg I pull down the blue to warm things up a bit) the "linear" in the option menu below the curve changes to "custom". When I then change the tone curve to medium or strong contrast, it nicely obeys and thus so, but what then surprises me is that the Blue curve in the RGB settings is again totally flattened out...does it retain the prior adjustment or does it just ignore it ? I only noticed just now on a relatively ok picture so it's easily enough to check but still it's odd that an earlier slider adjustment seems to disappear.
Anyone who can enlighten me on this ?
Tx. Frederic

Not sure if I understand. Let me try to explain my workflow : usually i start with camera profile (i'm a landscape guy) then basic panel tweaks,color temp if needed, a bit of the cool shadows/highlights, some blacks,clarity etc. then perhaps a graduated filter or lens profile...i hardly ever use the contrast slider (I never liked it in previous LR versions and haven't really touched it now) - BUT then my next move usually is to fool around with the tone curve, before (LR3) mostly via the sliders, now (LR4) mostly via the presets (linear,medium,strong) because I get confused between highlights/whites in BP then highlights/lights etc in TC panel, so I don't bother with those sliders in the TC panel anymore and I just click the presets. Now at long last back to my question : sometimes I try to use the new tone curve RGB to correct a blue tone or so, and then the preset name changes into "custom" and at the same time the curve nicely slopes the way I nudged it. When I then click on one of the presets in tone curve to L,M, or Strong the curve readjusts again.if I then check back on RGB blue channel again there is a nice straight diagonal as if nothing ever happened but the color tone seems to be preserved..net net it seems to do the right things to the pictures but the curve tells something different and that's what I don't get...
Sorry for the all the talk but I don't know how to explain it better. Perhaps I should just post a video of the dam thing.
Cheers. Frederic

Theoretical Discussion of Tone Curve

I'm trying to understand how RGB values themselves are changed when fooling with the Tone Curve (TC).
When I slide the highlights slider to the right, typically, I see a saturation increase in highlights (sky, e.g.).
When I slide the highlights slider to the left, typically, I see highlights become gray.
Why?
For the sake of argument, let's say I have a pixel in the sky (highlights) that has the following RGB values:
240,120,160
When I slide the highlight slider of the TC to the right, it must increase (240,120,160) to (240+x,120+y,160+z).
I would assume that x does not equal y does not equal z, and that some relation between the R, G, & B values are retained in order to retain the original color of that pixel. If scaled proportionally, appropriately, then the RGB values will go up, but the color will be maintained (i.e., as long as we don't hold R constant, and raise G & B solely... if we did that, we risk skewing the color towards a neutral, that is, where R=G=B). To increase saturation of that pixel while increasing luminosity, presumably one would scale R faster (more) than G, in this example.
Is this the correct way of looking at things? Please correct me where I'm wrong, anyone.
Back to the topic at hand... when sliding the highlights slider to the left, then, why do highlights become 'grayed out'? Is the relation between R, G, & B values *not* being maintained when lowering RGB values? Or does Photoshop's 'Shadows/Highlights' tool, while using 'Color Correction', particularly hold, for example, the R value in RGB:(240,120,160) while lowering G & B in order to decrease luminance while maintaining the most saturated color (of course, I realize it's not *that* simple... for example, if a pixel is violet, then one would decrease green while holding red & blue in order to darken the pixel while maintaining its violet color).
Thanks for reading, your patience, & any feedback.
Cheers,
Rishi

Ah, very interesting. Which is why moving Highlight slider to the left (- contrast) *desaturates* the image whereas moving Shadows slider to the left (+ contrast) *saturates* the image.
Thanks Jeff.
My issue with adjusting the saturation after the fact is that it will adjust saturation of the *whole* image, when perhaps I only want to increase the saturation of the highlights which lost saturation due to the TC.
Also, sometimes, loss of saturation by moving the Highlights slider to the left is so profound that it just can't be rescued.
Additionally, increasing the saturation of certain colors (using HSL) is typically a non-option for me since it ends up making the image noisy (i.e. my skies may be composed of blues/aquas/magentas and increasing these separately introduces 'blocking'... probably due to the smooth tonalities being rather noisy because film is inherently so noisy and the scanning process itself doesn't help).
What *might* work though is a saturation tool that allows you to adjust saturation for different luminosities... something like a 'saturation curve'?
Thoughts?

Color option of the Tone Curve of LR 5.2?

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