Color space conversion due to transparency ...

Hi there!
Let's assume we have a document that contains two RGB images, one of them is set to 70 % transparency. When printing to PDF, the 70 % transparent RGB image is converted to CMYK, the other one retains its RGB color space ...
I seem to understand that this is due to the current transparency color space setting. I could change that to RGB.
But I wonder: Is there no way to keep the color space here, no matter if it is CMYK or RGB the images are coming with?
Thanks,
Klaus

Klaus,
To learn what happens with flattening and color, you should refer to this excellent document, "Transparency in Adobe Applications: A Print Production Guide."
http://www.adobe.com/designcenter/creativesuite/articles/cs3ip_printprodtrans.pdf
Here's are relevant section (page 24):
Printing transparency: step-by-step
When printing a page containing live transparency from InDesign CS3 and the Transparency Blend Space is set to Document CMYK, the following steps will take place (steps 3 and 6 may perform color conversions):
1 Transparency is detected on a spread by the Flattener.
2 The Flattener refers to the Transparency Blend Space setting to determine the appropriate color space in which to blend transparent objects. In this example, Document CMYK was selected. The Document CMYK color space is determined by the active color settings (Edit > Color Settings).
3 Any image that is tagged with a color space that differs from the selected blend space is converted to Document CMYK.
4 The Flattener flattens the transparency.
5 The flattened data is passed to the print engine.
6 The print engine compares the color information in the flattened data with the Printer Profile color space set in the Print dialog box. If the color settings dont match, the print engine converts the colors to the color space indicated by the Printer Profile.
7 The color-managed job is printed.

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I am converting a raw image.
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> I played around a bit with your samples and I could get close to your "Converted when receiving" version by using the Microsoft ICM engine (other options like Dither and Black point comp didn't produce big differences that I could see). Is it possible that is what you have as the engine in Edit>Color Settings?
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I don't understand how you reproduced these steps. The file I uploaded is already in sRGB.
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Excuse my ignorance with the basic nature of this question, I don't use InDesign, but I do have a pressing problem regarding it.
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1. Is he right about the above - can Adobe Acrobat convert the files?
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3. To get the highest quality conversions, you might want to do it in Photoshop.
4. If the images are color managed and the printer has a modern work-flow a color managed RGB PDFX-4 pdf is probably the best way to go...
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I did some more experiments yesterday with interesting results:
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Hi All,
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Hi All,
I have read the Adobe Photoshop CS3 SDK and found Color Space Suite which will color conversion, but i can't able to find sample code.
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My "workflow" is:
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Thanks Jim.
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I may have used the wrong search terms, so my apologies if this question exists somewhere else
Using Indd CS2: Assuming that "Overprint Preview" is off I notice a color shift on a layout when transparency is introduced or removed.
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Note: It doesn't matter if the transparent object is affecting any other object on the page. For instance, I could have a polygon square set to multiply somewhere off the artboard. But as soon as I remove that polygon the color of the document shifts slightly. I can prevent this color shift from happening if I move the "Transparency Slider" to "Off" in Preferences>Display Performance. Or use "Fast" for the "Adjust View Settings".
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I do appreciate it.
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Document's transparency blend space? Destination color space?

I need some hand-holding please.
I just exported to pdf, and got this message, and would be happy to fix it if I had a clue what to do:
The document's transparency blend space doesn't match the destination color space specified in the Export Adobe PDF settings.
To avoid color appearance changes in the PDF, click cancel and change either the document's transparency blend space, or the destination color space.
Can you please translate that into English and tell me what to do?

OK, I've reproduced the problem, and here's what I'd do.
You've placed RGB images over CMYK vector paterns made in Illustrator, which in some ways makes things more complex than if the imges and backgrounds were all in a single color space, but it looks as if only the backgrounds are going to be affected by any flattening that will be taking place in the conversion, so if there is any color shifting due to the flattening and choice of space, and I don't see any, it will be isolated to the background texture and probably not noticeable.
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For the screen version, set the blend space to RGB and choose the Smallest File Size preset. you shouldn't get the warning (but you could ignore it even if you did). If the file is still too big, set the compressin settings to downsample color and grayscale to 75 ppi and lineart to 600 and see if that helps before you try reducing the quality in the compression. The prints off a desktop printer won't be quite as good as they will be at 100ppi, but probably acceptable on most inexpensive paper stocks that peopl seem to use, and hopefully they are going to get the better printed version, anyway.
Peter

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I'm having a problem with inserting a watermark image into my pdfs.
I created the watermark image in Photoshop. It is 8-bit gray with a transparent background. I saved it as a pdf (pdf 1.4 to allow transparency).
The main pdfs (to be watermarked) are created through a seperate process (they are scans of old book pages). The pdfs are produced from 8-bit gray tiff images, but I cannot determine what color space the these pdfs are.
To the problem: in Acrobat 9, when I insert the watermark above, all of the blacks on the page shift to grey, as if the opacity was shifted lower. The opacity is set to 100%, so this should not be a problem! The watermark does have a transparent background, though.
Since this seems to be a color space conflict, if I save the watermark PDF in CYMK or RGB, it does not cause the tonal shift (blacks remain true), but the watermark now has an opaque background. I need it to be transparent, as the background of the files to be watermarked are not tonally consistent (old discolored paper).
I guess these are my questions:
(1) Is there any way to determine the color space of a PDF? File->Properties does not list color space.
(2) Why does the watermark PDF, saved in CYMK or RGB, not allow a transparent background? Is this an Acrobat issue or color space?
(3) Does anyone have an idea on how to solve this? :)
Thanks a bunch.

First, I have 2 questions: 1) How do the color and watermark background look when you have Advanced > Print Production > Output Preview open? 2) What version of Acrobat are you working in?
The most common reason that people see an almost "washed out" appearance (or looking as though additional opacity is applied) is due to a bug in Acrobat 8. This was fixed in the 8.1 dot release. One way to determine if this is what you are running into is to view the file with the Output Preview dialog open. If it views correctly then, make sure you have the update installed.
I don't work with watermarks, but understanding the general concept of watermarks it seems like a reasonable guess that they would use overprinting. I'm wonder if this is what is affecting the display of them (non-transparent background) since Acrobat needs Overprint Preview ON to accurately display objects with overprint flags . As with above, turning on Output Preview will help you deduce if that's what is happening since Output Preview automatically enables Overprint Preview (which is off by default).
BTW, Preflight will let you know what color spaces are in PDF file. Run any Profile. In the results panel, drop down the "Overview" section. There you will find a color spaces section listing the color spaces of the document.

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Ai offers you either RGB or CMYK; you decide which in the File > Document Color Mode ( circa v10 ). Transparency doesn't care which space you use in Ai. If you work in CMYK, then just make sure your swatches and images are CMYK. But, I think there are other reasons why you'd get boxes in transparent objects. Take a look at Flattening.

DVI-HDMI-SDI Conversions and Color Space-what is happening?

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We never create media for typical broadcast or other conventional distribution. All media is custom animation for Special Events...large venue projection. But we do run multiple monitors and LCD for content creation and programming...many times running video thru a DVI Matrix or SDI Matrix for signal distribution. So I want to understand how each configuration effects video.
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Thanks if anyone can help educate me!
_phil

That is allot of info there and I will list some to get you started
DVI - RGB
HDMI - RGB, YCBCR, or YUV
SDI - YCBCR
Premiere - No color management ie colorspace control. I believe it just uses the media and current display output color space. You would have to ask someone at Adobe there.
AE - Color management ie colorspace control. You can set what space your coming from and going to.
Do you have any colorimeters to calibrate your display devices? If not I suggest you look at X-Rite since it is cross platform OSX and Windows.
Eric
ADK

Color space conversion due to transparency ...

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