Color Space Question For Printing

I have multiple newbie questions so please bear with me
Normally when working in photoshop, I tend to use the RGB color space as I need the use of filters and other effects not available in CMYK, Now when printing flyers E.g A4 Sized I tend to save the PSD in RGB (Without Flattening) and then importing it into a CMYK color space in illustrator and then exporting as a PDF, as illustrator gives me the option to create bleed as well as trim marks, I have never exported a PDF from photoshop as it always gives me the option of photoshop pdf which is kinda heavy.
My question is, is the process I use okay for printing? or do I first need to convert it into CMYK? or just export from photoshop itself? Also, the other reason I use illustrator is if i'm making a business card with two sides, since text is better exported from illustrator.
Could anyone tell me a simpler process for creating for digital print? Especially if I need to do some items in illustrator as well.

>> images are still a bit washed out with a warmish/ yellow cast to them, particularly, my black and white images
Here is a simple test to help evaluate if the monitor profile is reasonably good:
Open a RGB file in Photoshop (flatten if not already flattened).
Press M key> Drag a selection> Com+Shift+U (Desaturate).
Com+Z (to toggle back and forth).
If the unsaturated selection looks neutral you've got a reasonably fair monitor profile.
If selection has color casts (not neutral) -- you have a bad monitor profile
+++++
Here is a simple test to help evaluate if a bad monitor profile is whacking out your Photoshop color:
Monitors/Displays (control panel)> Color> highlight AppleRGB or sRGB (don't run Calibrate), quit and reboot.
If the Photoshop colors are back under control, then the problem was most surely a bad monitor profile go back into Monitors/Displays> Color and Calibrate a good profile highlight (load) sRGB, or preferably, the monitor's OEM profile as a starting point.
If you are using a puck, it is likely defective; or your monitor hardware is the culprit...search it on Google by model number

Similar Messages

Color space question for photoshop cs on mac os10

I'm sure this has been beaten to death here before. I've been dealing with color space issues for months now, and I'm about at my wits end.
I realize that I should be saving in sRGB in order to get the same looking photo on the web that I get in photoshop. I go image-mode- convert to profile- destination space- profile: srgb profile. I've tried saving for web. I check "ICC" when I do that. When I just save an image as a jpeg (from a tiff), I check the box that says, "embed color profile." Still, my images look washed out on my website (which I made with iweb)- which I'm trying to put my images in a new web interface (flash palette) and my images STILL look washed out. The weird thing is, I NEVER have this issue when I upload images to photobucket or to the photography forum that I frequent.
What the heck am I doing wrong??
Thanks,
Hope

>> images are still a bit washed out with a warmish/ yellow cast to them, particularly, my black and white images
Here is a simple test to help evaluate if the monitor profile is reasonably good:
Open a RGB file in Photoshop (flatten if not already flattened).
Press M key> Drag a selection> Com+Shift+U (Desaturate).
Com+Z (to toggle back and forth).
If the unsaturated selection looks neutral you've got a reasonably fair monitor profile.
If selection has color casts (not neutral) -- you have a bad monitor profile
+++++
Here is a simple test to help evaluate if a bad monitor profile is whacking out your Photoshop color:
Monitors/Displays (control panel)> Color> highlight AppleRGB or sRGB (don't run Calibrate), quit and reboot.
If the Photoshop colors are back under control, then the problem was most surely a bad monitor profile go back into Monitors/Displays> Color and Calibrate a good profile highlight (load) sRGB, or preferably, the monitor's OEM profile as a starting point.
If you are using a puck, it is likely defective; or your monitor hardware is the culprit...search it on Google by model number

Color Space info for images

Hi all,
I would like to show the color space details for an image. Do you know what field mapping is required?
Thanks,
A.

>> images are still a bit washed out with a warmish/ yellow cast to them, particularly, my black and white images
Here is a simple test to help evaluate if the monitor profile is reasonably good:
Open a RGB file in Photoshop (flatten if not already flattened).
Press M key> Drag a selection> Com+Shift+U (Desaturate).
Com+Z (to toggle back and forth).
If the unsaturated selection looks neutral you've got a reasonably fair monitor profile.
If selection has color casts (not neutral) -- you have a bad monitor profile
+++++
Here is a simple test to help evaluate if a bad monitor profile is whacking out your Photoshop color:
Monitors/Displays (control panel)> Color> highlight AppleRGB or sRGB (don't run Calibrate), quit and reboot.
If the Photoshop colors are back under control, then the problem was most surely a bad monitor profile go back into Monitors/Displays> Color and Calibrate a good profile highlight (load) sRGB, or preferably, the monitor's OEM profile as a starting point.
If you are using a puck, it is likely defective; or your monitor hardware is the culprit...search it on Google by model number

Color space support for png files

kindly suggesting :
color space support for png files, requiring the support (read/write) of the chunks: iCCP, cHRM, gAMA, sRGB

Hi ChrisT,
Thanks for the suggestion. I went to:
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/softwareCategory?os=4063&lc=en&cc=us&dlc=en&sw_lang=&product=4148...
Which is the software update page for my model. I see 10 items under Software Solutions, 8 of which are just video tutorial updates, not actual application updates (and none of those are for the Photo App). The two application updates are:
HP TouchSmart Recipe Box Application Update
HP Support Assistant Application Update
So, are you saying that PNG file types are supported in some versions of the Photo App and I don't have the correct version? Or in other words, what am I missing?
Cheers,
D

To retain color space value for Monochrome images during flattening.

In our project, we are extracting image content from PDF file and doing some raster operation by using LeadTool and then flattening the processed image in PDF file.
Input PDf file: One page which has monochrome image
For extracting image content from PDF file, we are using below Acro Plugin API:
AVConversionConvertFromPDFWithHandler
After this, we will perform some raster operations by using LeadTool and then flattening will happen.
While doing flatten we are performing below operations in sequence:
1. Set bitspercomponent =1.
2. Create a new color table using DeviceRGB.
3. Create image by using below Acro Plugin API:
pdeimage = PDEImageCreate(&attrs, sizeof(attrs), &matrix, 0, cols1, NULL, &fil, asstm, NULL, 0);
4. Add image in PDF content.
Now flattening is successful, but monochrome(Original Image format) is changed to RGB. We want to retain the color space(DeviceGrey).
We have tried the below solution to retain the color space:
1. Using the old image's color space value for new image creation. But this gives inverted color(Black to White and vice versa)
Please help us to retain the color space while flattening.

We are using JPG file format.
Please find below the code portions which we used to add image in PDF file,
//Read Image Data
========================================================================================== ==================
ASBool ret = TRUE;
// analyze img
ASInt32 index = 0, quadSize = 0;
BITMAPFILEHEADER* bmfh = NULL;
// BITMAPFILEHEADER
if( !bQuadSize )
bmfh = (BITMAPFILEHEADER*)img;
index += sizeof(BITMAPFILEHEADER);
// BITMAPINFOHEADER
BITMAPINFOHEADER* bmih = (BITMAPINFOHEADER*)(img+index);
index += sizeof(BITMAPINFOHEADER);
// RGBQUAD
if( !bQuadSize )
quadSize = bmfh->bfOffBits - sizeof(BITMAPFILEHEADER) - sizeof(BITMAPINFOHEADER);
else
quadSize = size - bmih->biSize - bmih->biSizeImage;
ASInt32 rgbquadNum = 0;
char* quad = NULL;
if (quadSize > 0)
rgbquadNum = quadSize/sizeof(RGBQUAD);
quad = (char*)(img+index);
index += quadSize;
// Image
//ULONG imgSize = size - bmfh->bfOffBits;
char* image = (img+index);
DURING
   if(!pd)
    E_RETURN(FALSE);
   PDPage pp = PDDocAcquirePage(pd, page-1); // Get Page(PDPage) of specified page number
   PDEContent pdeContent = PDPageAcquirePDEContent(pp, gExtensionID); // Get PageContent(PDEContent)
   ASInt32 numElems = PDEContentGetNumElems(pdeContent); // Get PageContent num
   // Check BitMap width, height, biXPelsPerMeter, biYPelsPerMeter changed
   ASFixedRect mb;
   PDPageGetMediaBox(pp, &mb);
   ASFixedRect chgMediaBox;
   memset(&chgMediaBox, 0 , sizeof(ASFixedRect));
   if (paperSizeChangeType == PAPERSIZE_SIZESPECIFICATION)
    chgMediaBox.right = width;
    chgMediaBox.top = height;
   // Get PDEImage's Attributes & Filters & ColorSpace from Old Image in PDF file
========================================================================================== ===================================
   PDEElement pdeElement;
   ASInt32 importIndex;
   ASInt32 type;
   PDEImageAttrs attrs1;
   PDEColorSpace cols1;
   //ASAtom colname;
   PDEFilterArray fil1[20];
   ASInt32 filNum1;
   ASFixedMatrix matrix1;
   bool isTransformedPage = false; //EV2.8.02000_19651_Retain color space_20141016
   for (int i = 0; i < numElems; i++)
    pdeElement = PDEContentGetElem(pdeContent, i);
    PDEObject obj=_objHelper.TraversePDPageContentsImage((PDEObject)pdeElement);
     if(obj == NULL)
      continue;
     pdeElement= (PDEElement)obj;
    type = PDEObjectGetType((PDEObject)pdeElement);
    if (type == kPDEImage)
     // Get Attr
     PDEImageGetAttrs((PDEImage)pdeElement, &attrs1, sizeof(PDEImageAttrs));
     // Get ColorSpace
     cols1 = PDEImageGetColorSpace((PDEImage)pdeElement);
     // Get Filter Array
     filNum1 = PDEImageGetFilterArray((PDEImage)pdeElement, fil1);
     // Get ASFixedMatrix
     PDEElementGetMatrix(pdeElement, &matrix1);
     //EV2.8.02000_19651_Retain color space_20141016 - Start
     if (matrix1.a < 0 || matrix1.b < 0 ||
                    matrix1.c < 0 || matrix1.d < 0 ||
                    matrix1.h < 0 || matrix1.v < 0)
      isTransformedPage = true;
     //EV2.8.02000_19651_Retain color space_20141016 - End
     // Set Import and Delete Index
     importIndex = i;
     break;
   // Create image data (for PDEImage)
========================================================================================== =================================
   ASInt32 bitPerComponent = bmih->biBitCount;
   ASInt32 bitWidth = 0;
   ASInt32 width1 = bmih->biWidth;
   ASInt32 height1 = bmih->biHeight;
   // Create image size
   if (bitPerComponent == 1)
    if (width1%8)
     bitWidth = (width1/8) + 1;
    else
     bitWidth = width1/8;
   else if (bitPerComponent == 4)
    if (width1%2)
     bitWidth = (width1/2)+1;
    else
     bitWidth = width1/2;
   else if (bitPerComponent == 8)
    bitWidth = width1;
   else if (bitPerComponent == 32)
    bitWidth = width1*4;
   else // if (bitPerComponent == 24)
    bitWidth = width1*3;
   ASInt32 imgSize4Acrobat = height1 * bitWidth;
   char* image4Acrobat = (char*)ASmalloc(imgSize4Acrobat);
   if( image4Acrobat == NULL )
    E_RETURN(FALSE);
   memset(image4Acrobat, 0, imgSize4Acrobat);
   // Create image
   ASInt32 nokori = (bitWidth)%4;
   ASInt32 bitWidth4hokan = 0;
   if (nokori)
    bitWidth4hokan = bitWidth + (4-nokori);
   else
    bitWidth4hokan = bitWidth;
   ASInt32 hbw = 0;
   ASInt32 hbw4hokan = 0;
   if (bitPerComponent == 1)
    for (int k = height1-1, l = 0; k >= 0; k--, l++)
     hbw = l*bitWidth;
     hbw4hokan = k*bitWidth4hokan;
     memcpy((image4Acrobat+hbw), (image+hbw4hokan), bitWidth);
   else if (bitPerComponent == 4)
    for (int k = height1-1, l = 0; k >= 0; k--, l++)
     hbw = l*bitWidth;
     hbw4hokan = k*bitWidth4hokan;
     memcpy((image4Acrobat+hbw), (image+hbw4hokan), bitWidth);
   else if (bitPerComponent == 8)
    for (int k = height1-1, l = 0; k >= 0; k--, l++)
     hbw = l*bitWidth;
     hbw4hokan = k*bitWidth4hokan;
     memcpy((image4Acrobat+hbw), (image+hbw4hokan), bitWidth);
   else if (bitPerComponent == 32)
    for (int k = height1-1, l = 0; k >= 0; k--, l++)
     hbw = l*bitWidth;
     hbw4hokan = k*bitWidth4hokan;
     for (int kk = 0; kk < bitWidth; kk += 4)
      *(image4Acrobat+hbw+kk) = *(image+hbw4hokan+(kk+3));
      *(image4Acrobat+hbw+kk+1) = *(image+hbw4hokan+(kk+2));
      *(image4Acrobat+hbw+kk+2) = *(image+hbw4hokan+(kk+1));
      *(image4Acrobat+hbw+kk+3) = *(image+hbw4hokan+(kk));
   else
    for (int k = height1-1, l = 0; k >= 0; k--, l++)
     hbw = l*bitWidth;
     hbw4hokan = k*bitWidth4hokan;
     for (int kk = 0; kk < bitWidth; kk += 3)
      *(image4Acrobat+hbw+kk) = *(image+hbw4hokan+(kk+2));
      *(image4Acrobat+hbw+kk+1) = *(image+hbw4hokan+(kk+1));
      *(image4Acrobat+hbw+kk+2) = *(image+hbw4hokan+(kk));
   //Invert Image Data
========================================================================================== ================================
   for(int it = 0; it < imgSize4Acrobat; it++)
      image4Acrobat[it] = 255 -image4Acrobat[it];
   // Open Image Data
========================================================================================== ================================
   ASStm asstm = ASMemStmRdOpen(image4Acrobat, imgSize4Acrobat);
   // Create PDEImage Attribute etc.
========================================================================================== ================================
   PDEImageAttrs attrs;
   memset(&attrs, 0, sizeof(PDEImageAttrs)); // necessary
   attrs.width = width1;
   attrs.height = height1;
   if (bitPerComponent == 1) {
    attrs.bitsPerComponent = 1;
    if (rgbquadNum) {
     attrs.flags = kPDEImageIsIndexed | kPDEImageExternal; // Indicates image uses an indexed color space.
    } else {
     attrs.flags = kPDEImageExternal; // Indicates image is an XObject.
     // B&W
   } else if (bitPerComponent == 4) {
    attrs.bitsPerComponent = 4;
    if (rgbquadNum) {
     attrs.flags = kPDEImageIsIndexed | kPDEImageExternal; // Indicates image uses an indexed color space.
    } else {
     attrs.flags = kPDEImageExternal; // Indicates image is an XObject.
   } else if (bitPerComponent == 8) {
    attrs.bitsPerComponent = 8;
    if (rgbquadNum) {
     attrs.flags = kPDEImageIsIndexed | kPDEImageExternal; // Indicates image uses an indexed color space.
    } else {
     attrs.flags = kPDEImageExternal; // Indicates image is an XObject.
   } else if (bitPerComponent == 32) {
    // not support (acrobat)
   } else { // (bitPerComponent == 24)
    attrs.flags = kPDEImageExternal; // Indicates image is an XObject.
    attrs.bitsPerComponent = 8;
   // matrix
   ASFixedMatrix matrix;
   memcpy(&matrix, &matrix1, sizeof(matrix1));
   if (paperSizeChangeType == PAPERSIZE_SIZESPECIFICATION)
    matrix.a = chgMediaBox.right;
    matrix.b = 0;
    matrix.c = 0;
    matrix.d = chgMediaBox.top;
    matrix.h = 0;
    matrix.v = 0;
   // Filter
   PDEFilterArray fil;
   memset (&fil, 0, sizeof (PDEFilterArray));
   PDEFilterSpec spec;
   memset (&spec, 0, sizeof (PDEFilterSpec));
   memcpy(&fil, &fil1, sizeof(PDEFilterArray));
   CosDoc cosDoc;
   CosObj cosDict;
   // Build the CosObj for the filter specification
   cosDoc = PDDocGetCosDoc(pd);
   cosDict = CosNewDict(cosDoc, false, 2);
   CosDictPut(cosDict, ASAtomFromString("K"), CosNewInteger (cosDoc, false, -1));
   CosDictPut(cosDict, ASAtomFromString("Columns"), CosNewInteger (cosDoc, false, width1));
   //memset the filterspec so there are no garbage values if we leave members empty
   spec.encodeParms = cosDict;
   spec.decodeParms = cosDict;
   spec.name = ASAtomFromString("CCITTFaxDecode");
   fil.spec[0] = spec;
   // Create PDEImage
========================================================================================== =================================
   PDEImage pdeimage;
   pdeimage = PDEImageCreate(&attrs, sizeof(attrs), &matrix, 0, cols1, NULL, &fil, asstm, NULL, 0);
   // Delete PDEImage at importIndex(==j) of page -> Delete old image in PDF file
========================================================================================== ====================
   PDEContentRemoveElem(pdeContent, importIndex);
   // Add PDEImage
========================================================================================== ==========================
   PDEContentAddElem(pdeContent, importIndex, (PDEElement)pdeimage);
   PDPageSetPDEContent (pp, gExtensionID);
   PDPageReleasePDEContent(pp, gExtensionID);
   // Release object
   PDERelease((PDEObject)pdeimage);
   PDPageNotifyContentsDidChangeEx(pp, TRUE);
   PDPageRelease(pp);
   ASStmClose(asstm);
   if (image4Acrobat)
    ASfree(image4Acrobat);
   if (lookupTable)
    ASfree(lookupTable);
HANDLER
   ret = FALSE;
END_HANDLER
return ret;

Print & color space question

Have an illustrator cs6 file I just sent to a client for printing. It has linked rgb and CMYK files. When I sent the file I forgot to convert the rgb images to CMYK. They were linked psd and tiff files. Don't have direct contact with who will print. Do I need to worry about the RGB images outputting poorly? Or will Illustrator handle the conversion ok just in case printer doesn't check the files carefully.

You haven't said a word about what kind of document it is or what kind of images it contains.
For all anyone trying to advise you knows, it could be a $60,000 press run of a poster for the next blockbuster movie. Or it could be a $60 run of a flier for the local Girl Scout troop. Or anything in between.
The image may be a commissioned studio portrait of the hottest current rock star. Or it may be a simple geometric graphic for which no one but you knows the "correct" color anyway.
I'm not being a wise-guy. I'm making a point that far too many people who sweat blood over color calibration overlook entirely: How color critical is it? That's the first and foremost consideration regarding any practical answer to your question.
Designers have been placing RGB images in documents destined for process separation ever since the 80s, and the vast majority of the time, for most practical purposes, the automatic conversion to CMYK comes out fine.
It's quite doubtful that anyone is going to hold a spectrophotometer up to your printed piece and then publicly crucify you as a color-ignorant dolt. (There are plenty of such dolts sweating blood over hair-splitting color calibration, all the while oblivious to the far more dramatic improvement possible with a little color correction.)
It's probably just fine; but so far only you know how color-critical the job is.
JET

How to find the Color Space name for a PDEElement

Hi
I am trying to find out the color space for each PDEElement in my PDF file. While doing this,
I put some debug statements ( cout stmts ) that print the color_space as integer values. I gave this list
after the code. I belive the color spaces should be something like CMYK, DeviceRGB,DeviceGray..etc.
How can I know the actual color space name coresponding to these numbers printed in Debug statements.
Kindly please help me..
void   ProcessElementDetails(PDEElement element)
                PDEGraphicState gfx_state;
                ASInt32 pdeType = PDEObjectGetType(reinterpret_cast<PDEObject>(element));
    ofstream outfile("E:\\temp\\test.txt",ios::app);
    outfile<<"ProcessElementDetails\n";
    if ( pdeType == kPDEText )
      outfile<<"PDE Text type\n";
      PDEText pde_text = (PDEText) element;
      ASInt32 num_run,i;
          num_run = PDETextGetNumRuns(pde_text);
      outfile<<"Number of Runs for PDEText :"<<num_run<<"\n";
      for (i = 0; i < num_run; i++)
        PDETextGetGState(pde_text,kPDETextRun,i,&gfx_state, sizeof (PDEGraphicState));
        ASAtom color_space = PDEColorSpaceGetName(gfx_state.fillColorSpec.space);
        outfile<<"Color Space :"<<color_space<<"\n";
    if (pdeType == kPDEImage )
      outfile<<"PDE Image type\n";
      PDEElementGetGState(element,&gfx_state,sizeof (PDEGraphicState));
      ASAtom color_space = PDEColorSpaceGetName(gfx_state.fillColorSpec.space);
      outfile<<"Color Space :"<<color_space<<"\n";
    if (pdeType == kPDEContainer)
      outfile<<"PDE Container type\n";
                        PDEContent content = PDEContainerGetContent(reinterpret_cast<PDEContainer>(element));
                        ASInt32 numElem = PDEContentGetNumElems(content);
                        for (ASInt32 i = 0; i < numElem; i++)
                             element = PDEContentGetElem(content, i);
                             ProcessElementDetails(element);
Debug statements with color numbers:
====================================
ProcessElementDetails
PDE Image type
Color Space :700
ProcessElementDetails
PDE Text type
Number of Runs for PDEText :63
Color Space :388
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :388
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :388
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
ProcessElementDetails
ProcessElementDetails
PDE Text type
Number of Runs for PDEText :38
Color Space :389
Color Space :700
Color Space :390
Color Space :388
Color Space :390
Color Space :388
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :390
Color Space :389
Color Space :700
Color Space :700
Color Space :700
Color Space :700
Color Space :700
Color Space :700
Color Space :700
Color Space :700
SeparateColorPlates
PDF file exists
Number of Pages:1
Number of Elements:5

As you may have noticed, the "numbers" you see are actually of type ASAtom -
which is a type declared in the SDK to represent reused strings. You have to
read the relevant documentation to learn how to use the SDK - there is no
way around it. The Acrobat SDK is very powerful, but also a lot more
complicated than most people expect when they start to work with it. Take
your time to learn how to use it.
In this particular case, you need to call this function to convert the
ASAtom to a string:
const char* ASAtomGetString<http://livedocs.adobe.com/acrobat_sdk/10/Acrobat10_HTMLHelp/API_References/Acrobat_API_Ref erence/AS_Layer/ASAtom.html#ASAtomGetString135%28%29>
(ASAtom<http://livedocs.adobe.com/acrobat_sdk/10/Acrobat10_HTMLHelp/API_References/Acrobat_API_Ref erence/AS_Layer/ASAtom.html#ASAtom>atm)
(from
http://livedocs.adobe.com/acrobat_sdk/10/Acrobat10_HTMLHelp/API_References/Acrobat_API_Ref erence/AS_Layer/ASAtom.html
Karl Heinz Kremer
PDF Acrobatics Without a Net
[email protected]
http://www.khkonsulting.com

HSB Color Space Question - How Many Colors Are There In Photoshop

Hello guys, I have a sort of basic question that I have been trying to figure out for a few days.
I am trying to find out how many colors there are in the Color Picker when the Hue radio button is selected.
I know there are 256^3 RGB (#Hex) colors, and I am trying to find some relationship when I am coloring with HSB color space in Photoshop.
It just confuses me because the Hue slider goes from 0-359 and the S and B goes from 0-99...
So how many HSB colors in Photoshop are there? Am I missing out on some colors by using HSB color space in Photoshop as oposed to using RGB?
Are there the exact same amount? Are there more and there are duplicates in HSB space mode?
Thank you all for all your help, much appreciated
Travis

misterfowly wrote:
I know there are 256^3 RGB (#Hex) colors, and I am trying to find some relationship when I am coloring with HSB color space in Photoshop.
It just confuses me because the Hue slider goes from 0-359 and the S and B goes from 0-99...
So how many HSB colors in Photoshop are there? Am I missing out on some colors by using HSB color space in Photoshop as oposed to using RGB?
The deficiency of such mathematical models is that they do not take into account noise and human perception. In an 24 bit RGB space (8 bits per channel) there may be 16 million colors, but this assumes that there are 256 discrete levels in each color channel. You could increase the number of colors by using a 48 bit space. In practice, noise will reduce the number of discrete levels, and this will vary with the camera and ISO used in that camera. For example, consider the Nikon D5000 as evaluated by DXO. At base ISO the camera can resolve only 21.8 bits of color information and this decreases to 15.6 bits at an effective ISO of 2079 (camera ISO setting of 3200).
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Image-Quality-Database/Nikon/D5000
Then you have to consider how many of these colors can actually be differentiated by the human visual system. If you can't see a difference, it really doesn't matter.These differences are difficult to quantitate. One such effort uses MacAdam ellipses shown in this Wikipedia article on a CIE 1931 xy plot. How many of these ellipses are contained in the CIE xy space? The DXO site has similar ellipses for real world camera images.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacAdam_ellipse
See this RIT FAQ for a more sober real world analysis. The actual number of colors is in the millions, but likely not 16 million.
http://www.cis.rit.edu/mcsl/outreach/faq.php?catnum=1#219
In a real world situation, I would not be overly concerned about differences between the RGB and HSB spaces, but one could increase precision by using a 48 bit space.

Color Space Question... using Lagarith Lossless Codec.

Hi all,
I use the Lagarith Lossless Codec for all my source editing files importing into Premiere Pro and for exporting to my encoder I use.
My question is this. I found that most of my sources are in YUV color space, so when I prep them for editing using VirtualDub, etc... I export them to Lagarith Lossless Codec in the YUY2 color space setting. The size difference between using RGB and YUY2 is enough to make me want to just use YUY2. So when editing those prepped files in YUY2 in Premiere Pro and them exporting the in the same YUY2 color space configuration, does it degrade in quality at all? I heard somewhere that Premiere Pro ONLY edits in RGB color space. So am I really messing up here or is it safe to do what I am doing?
Thanks in advance!

Premiere Pro will keep the color space of the original media. And many of the effects can now also operate in YUV space (They are marked by the YUV icon.) However, any effects you use that are not marked with that icon will force an RGB conversion.

In PS C6 I'm getting a warning that "No color management" setting for printer isn't supported. Why?

I'm using Photoshop Extended CS6. I'm printing to either an Epson Stylus Pro 9900 or an Epson SP4900. In the print dialog, I get a warning I haven't seen in a long time. It says the setting "No Color Management" at the printer is not supported. This is patently false. I am given a link to download the Adobe Color Print Utility (which gives abominable results; I know this from repeated uses in the past), and a service note saying this issue is for Photoshop CS5. Clearly there is a problem, possibly a bug.
I have never had CS5 installed on this machine. I do have PS CS5.5 and PS CS6 on this machine (I have used all versions of CS in various suites from the start of the product line).
Can anyone explain this annoying intrusion on my workflow? Of course "no printer management on printer/Photoshop manages color" works... There must be an explanation.
Thanks.

An excellent question, and worthy, in fact of an essay, if not a chapter in a book on color management and proofing issues. And as you suggested earlier, it's a philosophical question (not strictly conceptual to my way of thinking).
It's also a question I can't answer, in terms of practicality and a personal sense of efficacy in dealing with a monolithic process (producing a print). That is, I can't answer for you, or anyone else I'd venture to say.
Stepping back for the briefest of moments, we should remember we live, on computers, in a virtual world. Whatever we see is a simulation, or if you prefer a simulacrum. Plato would probably say, not much better than the play of shadows on the cave wall from the flickering flames.
It's called soft proofing for a reason. The only hard proof is a print. I am old enough to remember the days when producing a color print from a chrome (requiring an internegative) or even directly from negative images, was an art, best left to skilled technicians in a lab. And even then it was an iterative process. Making an image ready for accurate color rendition in lithographic reproduction was the same things, maybe times ten. And required sometimes a whole team of skilled technicians, the last of them being the press operator. You can't appreciate the full impact of these facts of life back then unless you have been "on press" in some plant, invariably in the hinterlands, looking at actual press proofs under 6500K calibrated proofing lights, comparing them against the original chrome, the separation proofs used to make the plates. You had to understand not only the physics (and biology) of RGB imaging, but the intricacies of subtractive technology, aka CMYK. As in so much else in life, less is more, and so you had to understand that sometimes the least adjustment was the best (because you were also dealing with the physical constraints of layers of ink on paper), so if an image looked too green on the press sheet, it might be best to throttle up on the magenta just a touch, rather than cut back on the yellow and cyan. You balanced one against the other, because of the possible effects on other parts of the image.
This long-winded, probably tiresome if not boring, anecdote is meant to be illustrative of the analogous situation in which we find ourselves printing images with digital technology, combined with electromechanical devices spraying pigmented fluids in drops measured in picoliters of volume on substrates of varying physical properties related to absorbency, refractive index, contribution to an arcane phenomenon known as metamerism.
We can't hope to see anything but a, pardon the expression, simulacrum of the combination of the effects of these phenomena (and other phenomena as a result of the interdigitation of these different technologies, at the software level, and even more so at the hardware level), at least not on a screen (which introduces a whole other set of variables). We can't see what we will get unless we actually go through the ordeal and expense of producing a hard proof. And then using our experience and deductive skills to make adjustments, not unlike maneuvering a rover on the moon from a control station on earth, that will produce the desired outcome within a very narrow (I assume) set of parameters.
Personally, I prefer working in Lightroom and in Photoshop in order to produce the image I would like to see in an ideal, if you like a Platonic, world. If what was on the screen could somehow be transferred magically to the surface of a lovely unsullied sheet of Arches cold press watercolor paper, 350g/m^2 coming out of an Epson 9900... (I've done it). Not so easy.
What the soft proofing capabilities of Photoshop are good for, from my point of view, is to show me how far off the image I am looking at as ideal will fall short on the intended target substrate. I must always remember, it is not a wholly accurate rendition of what the printer will do with a sheet of paper from a particular production run, with the particular combination of inks (with varying dates of origin of manufacture), never mind the vagaries of temperamental nozzles in the printhead, not to mention conditions of humidity, temperature, etc.
What the softproof tells me is that the red in that scarf on my subject really needs bumping up, if I expect the level of vibrancy I see I need in the ideal rendition. And I make the adjustment in the RGB representation on the screen, etc. When I have made my by guess and by gosh adjustments to all problem areas as suggested by the soft proof (it is only as accurate after all as the RGB image is in depicting any realistic expectation of a final result—the only assurance I have is that if I really want people to see my image as I see it on the screen I had better show them the screen...), I make a print. Sometimes I have to make two or three until I am satisfied this is truly the best I will get from the beautiful, but arcane, surface of the paper I have chosen.
In short, it's a risky business, and expensive.
If you want fast and affordable, frankly, stick to premium grade high gloss surfaces, preferably from Epson, in your case, or the manufacturer of your printer in general (Canon, incidentally, produces spectacular results on their Pixma Pro series printers and their own papers, especially the Pro Luster surface... I don't even bother with soft proofing... so there is an exception even to this rule I am taking a lot of time to point out to you). High gloss papers tend to have the widest gamut, give the deepest blacks, and the best renditions of saturated color, red and blue particularly, for some reason often the hardest spectral colors to render with the level of saturation you might like. Especially if you tend to shoot vividly colored subjects.
If you regularly use matte surface, or so-called fine art or watercolor surfaces, I think even if you adhere to the workflow implied in your question... Just set the computer and screen to "soft proof" in effect in Photoshop and work from their, and hope for the best... you are in for massive chronic dissatisfaction.
One last thing, I produce what I consider a basic working image in Lightroom, add further effects using a battery of third party effects software (from Google Nik, OnOne, Imagenomic, AlienSkin, etc.) and then go to work further on the image in Photoshop, but I never save the image, except as a revised file, once I'm done with Lightroom adjustments (which are never applied to the RAW file, but kept as meta-instructions separately in the LR database). So any effects added produce a new file. Any changes in Photoshop produce a new file. And when I am working, finally on an image to make into a committed hard print, I NEVER save the settings I use to produce a print, including a print I deem acceptable for exhibition. If nothing else, I can honestly tell a print buyer they are getting a unique "hand-made" image. I don't feel I'm operating a factory after all, but a studio. Further, changes in technology occur dynamically and continuously. I don't know what I would do with the settings I derived from working solely in the "soft-proofing" mode you think you might prefer in your workflow, if a new paper or ink set, or printer came along that solved the problems I had to fudge around to get a decent print with the existing technology at the time. At least if I work solely in RGB trying to achieve an "ideal" rendition, I will always be able to start from that same point, the next time I want a print worth saving of that image.
We've gone, or I've gone, way off topic here, and I beg the indulgence of anyone else who might be reading this, hoping for a simple fix to the original simple problem.
H

Color Space Question

I've imported a jpg created in photoshop with embedded sRGB profile(via Save for Web), but when I soft proof to Lightroom's sRGB profile I see out-of-gamut colors. Is Lightroom doing something with the imported color space?

It's a bug. In both ACR, LR and Photoshop. Of course it show no OOG colors but shouldn't. Ignore it. In fact, the OOG overlay which predates Photoshop 5 with real soft proofing isn't at all useful.

Color space setting for new monitor?

New HP LP2480 monitor.
Has multiple settings for colorspace.
For use with FCS- should I be at adobeRGB or Rec 601 or Rec 709?
(Prior to this I used a Apple display and never messed with settings)
Thanks

Does anyone know the color space used in FCP?
Avid is 601
but I think might FCP might be 701 or RGB- yes? no?

Changing color management options for printing not possible

I got a problem with Leopard and a Canon i9950 printer. When I choose "Color Matching" from the "print options" pop-up menu, I cannot select "Color Sync" or "In Printer". "Color Sync" is selected, but both options are greyed out and not changeable. So it`s not possible to do a printer color calibration. With Tiger everything worked fine with that printer.

Are you seeing this is all applications or perhaps just in Photoshop or Aperature?

Srgb color space question

Does Lightroom convert jpg files to srgb color space when exporting?

LR converts them to the colorspace specified on the Export panel. There are several choices, including sRGB. You may need to expand various sections to see the option.

Need suggestion on Color Profile settings for printing image

I am trying to print the image below on a Xerox Docucolor 242. Im trying to get a better understanding of profiles and all that, which I THINK I do now.
Under Color Settings in Indesign, I have under Working Spaces, RGB is set to my monitor brand and type and CMYK is set to my exact printer. I have both of the Color Management Policies set to Off.
When I print the RGB version of this image, everything looks ok except for a very faded look. Probably noticed mostly because of all the black background that is used. When I print the CMYK version of it, it seems to print nice and dark but there is a strong white halo effect showing around both the flames which doesnt show on the screen or the RGB printout.
Anyone know what settings are causing the faded look in the RGB printout and the halo effects in the CMYK printout?

As others have said, this is a complex process, but one that is solvable.
I agree with others the RGB profile should NOT be the monitor but the profile of the original image. For most midrange cameras this will be sRGB or Adobe RGB depending on the settings in the Camera when the images was captured. It is NOT arbitary and choosing the wrong profile will have a large affect on the image.
The CMYK profile for the printer is more complex. There are two steps in calibrating and profiling a Xerox printer. First the calibration, or linearisation, sets the printer to a known state that can be repeated. This is best done with a spectrophotometer and not the CalorCal software provided by Xerox which uses a known colour chart scanned from the glass of the copier. The glass method of calibration does not calibrate correctly at the black end of the curve actually turns over reducing the available black, and is due to reflections from the glass. Calibration is normally done daily.
When the calibration has been completed a full ICC profile is created by printing a profile chart of some 2000 colours and reading this with the spectrophotometer. This is only valid for a calibrated printer and for the type of paper used. Different papers will require different profiles. It is a once only operation.
Another thing to watch out for is how your RGB images are being converted to CMYK. There is a setting both in the Creative suite and in the printer to set the black compensation. What you want to achieve is the same black as in the original image. In the CMYK case this will be printed as a combination of black toner pus a mixture of CMY to incread the density. The profile takes care of this for you.
Your description of weak blacks suggests that the black me be being printed as pure black toner.
Ian
NZ ColourManagement.

Color Space Question For Printing

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