Colour space issues

Hi,
I'm trying to figure out what's going on with colour spaces once I export a video. I've made a video from srgb jpegs and everything looks fine in Premiere Elements, but as soon as I export it as a video (have trived several formats) the colours are dulled and the contrast reduced (a common colour space issue).
Does anyone know why this happens and if so how to avoid it?
Specifically in this case I'm exporting photos from Photoshop Lightroom to srgb jpegs which I then import to Premiere Elements 7. The original pictures as well as the jpegs look fine. The jpegs and the movie also looks fine inside Premiere, but as soon as I export it to an avi or quicktime file I get something like a 15% decrease of both contrast and saturation.

One problem exporting to Quicktime from Premiere Elements has been discussed in the past, and it was found that PE does not correctly write atom data to the MOV header, so that when you play back the MOV file, it plays back in Apples color space on a PC, giving it a washed out look. The only computer where they will look correct is on an Apple computer. I've exported to Quicktime in other applications, and the results come out correctly when played on a PC.
And then, media players can make the video look too dark or too light, depending on which video renderer is used. In some video applications you have an option to select from 4 different types of video rendering for previewing playback. Some make the video look perfect while others make the video have less contrast. Then you may think that your video or images don't look right, and you start making color corrections.
On my computer Premiere Elements doesn't use the overlay mode, which is the mode that most closely resembles playback on my TV when the DVD player has black levels turned off. When editing in Premiere Elements, highlights look blown out. At one time I would compensate by changing the contrast and brightness. But after burning a DVD and playing it back on TV through the DVD player or in Windows Media Player, the video was too dark.
I've learned not to mess with the color too much in Premiere Elements. Not everyone will be able to play back your video and see it the way you intended.

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Looks like I was confusing the Ghent Workgroup specs (and their use of TrimBox to define an area for print elements) with the PDF/X-4 standard which clearly (6.1.3) says that anything drawn on the page is a print element.
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Colour Profile issues between North America and Europe

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The resultant colour is blue (approx C92M68Y18K0).
What preset are you using for the Export, or what are the Output settings? Have you tried PDF/X?
PDF/X-4 will leave color unchanged and profile everything, so a color change like you are describing most likely means the wrong output profile is being used in the UK.
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Hi there
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Has anyone experienced this issue before or can anyone provide a possible explanation?. Any advice gratefully received.
thanks
Jan

When I place the files into the document they become noticeably over saturated.
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Hi Everyone,
Since I have installed Leopard I am having colour management issues with Photoshop CS3 and my Canon i9950 printer.
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Now in leopard when I do the same thing everything comes out too yellow on the print. If I ask Photoshop to let the printer manage the colour it is too red. If I use the default colour management (photoshop managing the colour and it choosing the colour space it is better, but still too yellow).
Photoshop gives the hint to turn off colour management in the printer but there is no option for this and it also said the same thing before of course (when it worked in 10.4.11).
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>It was working perfectly in Tiger with the monitor profile.
You were lucky.
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the working space is Adobe RGB, sRGB, BruceRGB, ect... these are all known color spaces so when the file goes to another computer there is a consistent color space for reference. If you use your monitor profile as a working space then nobody else knows what is going on with your file.
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http://www.gballard.net/psd.html
http://digitaldog.net/

Colour Management issue With Leopard and PS CS3

Hi Everyone,
Since I have installed Leopard I am having colour management issues with Photoshop CS3 and my Canon i9950 printer.
My screen is calibrated with a Spyder and I used to ask Photoshop (in 10.4.11) to manage colour when printing and used the Spyder profile. Everything came out as I saw it on screen.
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Photoshop gives the hint to turn off colour management in the printer but there is no option for this and it also said the same thing before of course (when it worked in 10.4.11).
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Thanks.

You need to use the correct printer profile for the paper you're using. If the printer didn't come with any pre-built profiles, check Canon's web site to see if they have any profiles available for your printer that you can download.
Printer profiles are very specific. You can't take take a profile for glossy Epson paper and expect it to work very well for Canon glossy paper.

Colour Management Issues with Leopard and Photoshop CS3

Hi Everyone,
Since I have installed Leopard I am having colour management issues with Photoshop CS3 and my Canon i9950 printer.
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Photoshop gives the hint to turn off colour management in the printer but there is no option for this and it also said the same thing before of course (when it worked in 10.4.11).
Any ideas?
Thanks.

I'm having exactly the same problem, only my printer is a Canon Pixma iX4000. The colour is all bleached out, it looks exactly like when you've accidentally printed an RGB file on a CMYK printer, and at first I thought that was what I had done, but it isn't. This is very frustrating, I've spent all day going through the manuals, recalibrating etc, but no luck. This is a brand new Mac Pro and printer, but if its not going to print what I see on screen it's just expensive junk.
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Pixma Pro 100 Colour Space Questions

Hi
I Have a few questions related to Printing from lightroom I am new to this so bare with me.
1) I have a canon 7D I shoot in Raw 12-14 bit ? and most of my processing is done within lightroom so no need to export to photoshop however if i was to would this export as a 16bit file tiff or Jpeg ? If so if I was to after post processing in photoshop then back into lightroom this would only allow me to print in tiff or jpeg is this correct as a psd file/jpeg ?.
2) As I only edit in lightroom I can print directly in CR2 Raw format 12-14bit by using the canon print studio pro plugin ? or is this exported to the translator as a 16bit file ? and then use the paper manufactures ICC profile i.e (canon paper) for best results do I lose colour print quality by printing from Raw 12-14 bit rather than 16bit tiff/jpeg.
3) By using the Paper Manufactures ICC Profiles will the original raw file 12-14bit from 7Dcamera sRGB be translated to the printer by default from lightroom or is the colour space not needed as I havent converted to 16 Bit in post processing?
3) I havent had my monitor calibrated yet but intend to do so in the future, but until then I see no point in messing around with pro mode or sRGB or Adobe RGB or Pro photoRGB.
4) If I use lightrooms canon print studio pro pluggin is the colour space automatically translated from the settings in my camera or do I need to enable this in lightroom first ?.
5) I use a Mac running yosemite 10.10 and would like to know more about ICC profiles where to find the manufactures ICC Profiles how to download and where to store can you recommend a common website for learning how to do this on a mac ?.
6) As you can see I just want to print the best images from camera to printer without to much science involved however I am willing to learn but get confused with the different workspace post production softwares menu's for best results which i would prosume until i get my monitor calibrated proffesionally would be to print from Raw with the Manufactures ICC Profiles ?.
7) Are colour space and calibration settings all about printing what you have on the screen or is it mainly for extra colour depth in the print ?.
I can self calibrate my monitor to adobe RGB and have my camera shoot on adobe RGB -calibration with software but have been told i need colour monitoring devices correct ? if I was to do this and still just used the ICC paper profiles would the prints be any better ?.
My first prints were excellent very similar to what I see on the screen anyway but I checked lightrooms settings and these are on Pro photo RGB for external editing and is this the colour space for print studio pluggin also or is it just native Raw sRGB if I change the settings it says I will lose the maxium potential colour space.
sorry for the influx of questions :-)
Thomas
Solved!
Go to Solution.

You can not set the printer to match the monitor. You must set the monitor to match the printer. But the printer is already calibrated by the factory.
First, you must not let the printer set anything. Turn off every bit off control it has. You can do this with the Canon My Printer under the Printer Settings tab. Do you know how? I will guess, yes, for now but if you don't get back to me.
Second, you need to have your photo editor (like Photoshop or Lightroom) handle all the print settings and color matching. You know how to do this? I prefer Photoshop and I use AdobeRGB color space.
And lastly, it is essential you get some settings on your monitor that somewhat matches what the printer is printing. Your printer may be doing exactly what you are telling it to do and you have no idea it is, because your monitor is so far off. If you don't do this step, you can forget the other steps. However, there are only a few things that you need to be concerned with. You don't need any fancy extra add-on to do this. No additional software or gadgets, etc. No monkeys, no spiders, nothing!
Most people set their monitors too bright.
You must get the gray-scale very close. You need to get the brightness very close and you need the contrast very close.
After you do these things you can make adjustments to your prints by just looking at your screen. Because you know the monitor and printer are on the same level. One more point, you can NOT get a printer to print every color exactly the way you see it. It isn't possible as all colors and adjustments effect all others. My goal is to get the skin tones right. That is what people notice most. Remember you are dealing with two different disciplines here. One is colored light and the other is colored dyes. They are not the same thing.
For instance, I know my Pro-100 tends to print slightly darker than what I see on the monitor (typical). So, I automatically know to set it's prints 1/2 to one stop brighter in Photoshop, in my case. It also prints with a slightly warn tone. Most of the time, with portraits especially, this if OK but sometimes it is not. In that case I adjust the "temp" setting slightly cooler in PS.
All the Canon photo printers I have ever seen have this warm/magenta cast. Canon engineers must prefer this look. It can not be changed. You need to "fix" it in post.
Make sure you have the correct ICC profiles and you are using Canon brand ink and paper until you get good with the printer. Very, very important, otherwise you don't know if the printer is doing exactly what you are telling it to or not.
Important is, use the USB connection until everything is right. You are just adding another issue when you try to set up the printing and the wireless all at the same time. Just like using Canon branded products until it is a go. Use a real printer USB cable. Not just any old USB cable. Get everything right before you explore.
Good luck.
EOS 1Ds Mk III, EOS 1D Mk IV EF 50mm f1.2 L, EF 24-70mm f2.8 L,
EF 70-200mm f2.8 L IS II, Sigma 120-300mm f2.8 EX APO
Photoshop CS6, ACR 8.7, Lightroom 5.7

Colour space incorrectly reported

When exploring the metadata panels, I noticed all my photos were marked as Adobe RGB. This is incorrect as the camera was set to sRGB, which Photoshop Elements reports too.
This happens with Canon 20D RAW and JPEG files.
Anyone else notice this?

If this is happening with JPEGS then it's an issue,
but RAW files do NOT have ICC profiles embedded - RAW
files don't even have a colour space until they are
converted, let alone ICC profiles.
That is not how the 20D seems to operate. There is a menu option for colour space that allows me to set it to sRGB or Adobe RGB. This setting is reflected in the file names. sRGB photos are prefixed with IMG_, Adobe RGB are prefixed with MG .
Also the manual reads
"For normal images sRGB is recommended. In the Basic Zone modes, sRGB will be set automatically."
So it seems that Canon are nudging me towards using sRGB anyway. (I generally don't use the basic zone modes anyway, rather the aperture and shutter speed priority modes instead).
All my RAW files are IMG_ files. Not only that, but Canon's utilities report what colour space is associated with the RAW.
You might also want to rethink your monitor
calibration - sRGB and Adobe98 are profiles strictly
for images, not for screens - assigning one of them
to the screen will mess up the displayed colours.
Why then is there a display profile for sRGB and Adobe RGB in the System preferences? I don't understand what you mean here, sorry.
In general, Adobe98 is a larger space than sRGB,
which means that it can contain pretty well all the
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folder, click on Profiles and then swap between
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Ian
I don't use a hardware calibrator (yet - budget constrains). I have just used the Disply prefs to assign the sRGB profile. I tried the Adobe RGB one and like I said it looks dull and subdued for everything else.
I notice in the following thread :
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=472188
you said
2a. The vast majority of web browsers (and as far as I know ALL Windows browsers) are not colour profile/ICC aware, and will assume if anything that all images are sRGB.
2b. In general, anything for screen or web use should be in sRGB.
The vast majority of my stuff I will put on a website for friends/family to view, so I have everything set to sRGB along the way so I can get (I hope) a fair idea how it is going to look. I do print things out occassionally though - I send them to a photo lab, I don't bother with a home photo printer. For the couple of photos I sent off, I didn't have a problem. They were JPEGs saved (pre Aperture) off the RAWs taken with the camera set to sRGB.
Since the images are in an sRGB profile, doesn't it make sense to have the monitor set to use that same profile?
I am happy to admit that I am an utter novice with the digital side of photography, and the different colour profiles and what not have me confused.
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Chris
17" PowerBook G4, 20" iMac (Intel) Mac OS X (10.4.6)

Elements 10, Camera Raw 6.7: no colour space choices

Newbie alert!
I'm no expert on Photoshop or Camera Raw, but I read everywhere that I should be able to change the colour space of the Camera Raw output. At the moment I can only get the default which is sRGB but I want Adobe.
There's a little camera gizmo titled "Camera Calibration" underneath the histogram, but it's not there.
I've read that there should be some control in the middle beneath the preview but there's nothing there either.
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ElephantSandwich wrote:
Thanks for the reply: I'm aware I can set the colour space in the editor but my concern is that if it's exported from Camera Raw as sRGB then converted to AdobeRGB that there may be some information loss, my thinking being that getting it right early is better than later. Am I right in thinking that converting from sRGB to ARGB will lose information, or more likely won't have the full information set in the first place because the initial export from RAW is to sRGB?
I have to say I find the subject of colour management quite mystifying ... but I gather I'm not alone in that.
Thanks again.
Keeping in mind that a raw file has no color profile (it's not even an 'image', it's a recording of light intensity for each of the photosites laid out in a 'Bayer pattern' with Red, Green and blue filters) and that your raw file information will never be altered by any converter, you can be sure that it is always possible to re-process the raw file to aRGB without any information loss.
You are perfectly right that the resulting image (psd, tiff, jpeg...) when you save from the editor will keep its color profile and that converting sRGB to aRGB won't add any useful information; that's what I said in the other post.
When I was experimenting on that matter with other users in another forum, I was able to select previously edited raw files containing subtle tones in green/cyan and re-process them in aRGB instead of sRGB and I got better results on my 6-inks home printer.
Don't believe all images will be better in aRGB, there are not necessarily 'out of gamut' colours in all of your pictures.
Edit
I just realized that I have missed to put the link to the other thread:
http://forums.adobe.com/message/4619442#4619442

Changing Colour Space - How do I save an image in Adobe RGB 1998?

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Export it an open it with Preview and assign Adobe RGB using preview
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Mismatch between colour spaces?

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Has anyone any idea what is going on or how to fix it? Bug ?
Many thanks

I think I have solved this: by going to edit > Assign profiles > sRGB
For some reason the document didn't seem to be using the sRGB profile despite the colour preferences being set up for it. I thought it may be that the individual text box had a different profile assigned to it from the one being used as the document profile, but on reflection I am not sure this is actually possible (in contrast to images where you can assign whatever profile you like).
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Changing the colour space on a jpeg image for better quality when uploading to a website

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File > Save for Web. Use the 4-up panel to choose the best quality image with the smallest file size to save on bandwidth. You can test with sRGB enabled. Click on screenshot.
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Which colour space for camera and LR

Thanks for the answers to my last post about sharpening and workflow.
My next question is about colour spaces. I use a Nikon D200 which lets me choose from sRGB or AdobeRGB...LR obviously has these plus ProPhoto RGB. I use a MacBook Pro and an HP deskjet printer (5850)...I bought this before I bought the camera, and although it is very good, when I eventually change it I will go for a better quality printer.
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>sRGB should be good enough, but it's also good to hear you also shoot raw ... afterall, sRGB contains all of the color in most photographic images.
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>So..Michael...you said 'better inkjet printing'...I assume you mean a professional print lab or high level 'home' inkjet, rather than an average home printer like I have (perhaps one day!).
There are two answers to this. They might surprise you. Concerning home printing. Even the cheapest inkjets nowadays produce color outside of sRGB and even adobeRGB. You should print to these printers directly from Lightroom using actual color profiles meant for the printers and the paper you are using. Usually those are supplied with the drivers. This will give by far the best results and will give the deepest most saturated colors. This answer does not change when printing to even better printers. In fact, almost every current inkjet printer can now print colors that no display can actually show.
Second concerning lab prints. Be very very careful with this. Most labs, even the pro ones, do not color manage at all and their photo printers are tuned to approximate sRGB. Simply send them sRGB and you'll be fine. Some labs offer actual profiles that you can convert your images to in advance. (see http://lagemaat.blogspot.com/2008/05/great-prints-from-labs.html for more info). This gives slightly better prints and will reproduce colors not in sRGB ( and not even in adobeRGB: http://lagemaat.blogspot.com/2007/11/relevant-example-for-pprgb-vs-adobergb.html ). Due to variability in displays, you might even be able to see those colors on screen if you calibrate correctly. Some of the better labs might accept files in other profiles than sRGB or a lab specific profile. They will then do the conversion for you or have a color managed print workflow if they use inkjets. Make sure they know what they are doing which you usually can find out after talking for a few seconds.

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