Combining MPEG1 and miniDV camcorder footage

Hi,
I have been using a Panasonic GS180 3CCD camcorder (miniDV tapes) and a Sony DSC-P200 camera to record footage of various carnivals. I use the Sony camera when I am performing as its small and the MPEG1 movies are okay quality for my purposes. I use the camcorder at other times.
I use MPEG Streamclip to demux the MPEG clips (best quality Quicktime export) so the audio is available in FCE HD 3.5.1.
I export the edited film to disk (quicktime movie) and use iDVD to render and burn to disk (PAL format).
I have noticed that the footage from the MPEG clips seems to run a bit faster as if its slightly sped up.
I suspect this is a problem with frame rates. The MPEG is 30 frames per second and the PAL rendering is 25 fps.
What would be the best way to sort out this problem?
Thanks
Eric

Does the P200 shoot at 30 or at 25? When you convert the material using MPEG Streamclip, convert it to the correct frame rate.

Similar Messages

Combining 1080i and 1080p HDV footage on single timeline, for SD output?

Hi All
Help! I'm a cameraperson/director who was has just shot a largeish doccie project on a Sony HVR-V1E. My technical background is in stills, so I hope you'll forgive some ignorance here.
BACKGROUND: The vast majority of the footage was shot HDV using the 25fps prog scan mode on the camera. I really don't like interlace jaggies and I was advised that this was the obvious way of getting away from them, and made for very useable footage when output as standard def interlaced PAL. However, some footage for the project was also shot on a small Sony HDR-HC9 (PAL) camera. The HC9 has no progressive scan mode, i.e. this footage is 1080i50.
The primary broadcaster for this doccie requires delivery on Beta SP, standard def PAL. Because of the 16:9 aspect ratio of the HDV format, the film will be delivered letterboxed, black above and below.
THE MAIN QUESTION: We'll be editing in FCP 6.0 . My editor is more of an Avid person, and is concerned that without proper setup we'l end up with issues later on when we downsize to SD, especially because we'll be combining prog-scanned footage with interlace-scanned footage. We need to know whether to set the sequence presets as HDV 1080i50 or HDV 1080p25.
We're planning to edit as an HDV project and downscale to SD using Compressor. I know this downscaling is likely to take a long time, however we've been advised that editing in HDV is less intensive than going the ProRes route, and the quality of the Compressor downscale is better than that of the other 'within FCP' options.
I've been advised to set the sequence preset to i50, but I'm not sure if Compressor has a harder time resizing interlaced footage than progressive footage. Common sense tell me it'll be easier to resize a progressive frame and then split it into two interlaced fields without artifacts, than resizing and regenerating interlaced fields from 1080 down to PAL dimensions. However, if the sequence preset is p25, will FCP deal with the bits of i50 footage in the project OK?
Also, I've been told but cannot confirm that the Sony HVR-V1E camera scans progressively in 25fps prog scan mode, but encodes each progressively-scanned image as two interlaced fields on the tape, i.e. as 1080i50 images. Is this true? If so, it would surely mean that the sequence preset should be 1080i50 with progressive-scanned imagery emanating from this model of camera.
I hope this makes sense!
Regards
Adam Welz, Cape Town

Hi,
FCP is open format timeline based, so it will transcode the footage according to the first clip on the timeline. so it will not be a problem for two different formats. i've used DVCAM, HDV formats together it has done for me nicely.
but check the result before proceding further ahed in edit in both preset format.
and using Compressor is not a good idea for broadcast I believe, it is ok if there is no other option is with you. It is better to do it with the hardware rather than software.
I use realtime Blackmagic hardware for down converting HD to SD with letterbox directly to tape.

Best approach to convert HD camcorder footage to blue-ray (and archive)

I have a Canon Vixia HV30 camcorder that I have used to take HD footage. I would like to archive the tapes' raw footage (for backup purposes) and also burn a blue-ray for each tape. Prior to the Canon (and switching to Macs) I had been using Studio on a Windows system to do the same for footage from a standard def Sony camcorder. Despite reading through the material on this forum and elsewhere I am confused about a couple of items and am hoping someone can help me understand how to archive and burn the camroder footage to BD easily.
Coming from the Windows environment, I was used to Studio taking raw footage and converting the entire tape to one .avi file that I could then edit in a baisc manner (trim, add menus, add transitions, add chapters, etc. but not adding other audio, etc.) and burn...all in Studio. The Windows desktop I had been using for standard def is not powerful enough for HD (it's from 2004) so I have to explore other options.
I have a MacBook Pro with a 2.5 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo process and 4 GB memory and am using Mac OS X 10.6.8. I also have iMovie 08 (7.1.4 [585]) and Toast Titanium Pro with the HD/BD plug in (11.0.04). Toast will not recognize the Canon camcorder connected using the Firewire 400 connection (but will recognize the Sony). So I have used iMovie to download the camcorder footage to my MBP in HD (full quality).
Here are my questions:
1. when downloading, it appears that iMovie does not retain the raw/same format as used by the Canon but converts it to something called Apple Intermediate Codecc. Does this converstion affect the quality of the footage? I do not want to use the convered material as archival material if it's already been converted once.
2. If the answer to # 1 is yes, iMovie converts the raw footage, is there another program that I can use in a Mac-environment that will simply download the footage in it's original format?
3. iMovie also splits up the footage into clips vs. showing one file and I cannot combine the clips into one clip (to be analogous to the workflow I have been used to in Studio). Is there a way to do so? Short of backing up my entire laptop (which I do), how can I extract the original footage from iMovie and copy it for archiving on a NAS drive?
4. Where is the best "place"/approach to perform basic editing (adding menu, adding chapters for different sections of the disc, etc.) on the footage?
5. If the answer to #4 is iMovie, would I then simply burn the iMovie project in Toast to Blue-ray?
I had thought achieving my goals would have been easy in a Mac environment (like it is for everything else) but am surprised to find it so difficult compared to how easy it was in Studio. (Am I really better off getting a lower-end Windows 7 desktop and upgrading Studio and keep that just for converting our HD camcorder tapes to blue-ray? I would rather not do so of course.)
Thanks in advance for your help.

Calbe and AppleMan1958
Thanks for the replies. Based on your replies, I think I can stay in the Mac-environment.
1 and 2. I cannot archive as AppleMan1958 suggested to keep the original without conversion because the footage is HDV 1080i. I understand however that iMovie will import and convert using a lossles codec. (The camera is tape-based and doesn't show up in Finder.)
3. Having archived copy (if there is software that will let me do so for HDV) will negate the need to find the iMovie "version" but if necessary can do so directly.
4. One follow-up questions...if I use iMovies, do I simply use the project or the actual movie for purposes of burning to disc?
5. I agree Calbe...it's different so I'm thinking it's difficult. I am sure I'll get the hang of it once I better understand how the flow works from camera to disc!
AppleMan1958, is there another consumer level app that you can recommend that I can use for archiving HDV?
Thanks for the quick replies.
Hollistonma

Combining cropped 3:2 and 16:9 footage in 16:9 sequence, how letterbox?

I SWEAR I have searched through the posts (which contain a lot of 16:9 questions, to be sure) and have not found the answer.
From an HD shoot, I have 16:9 footage imported as DV and I've edited it into a 3:2 sequence with the Anamorphic 16:9 box checked in the settings. Also in the sequence are actual 3:2 clips, which I've cropped to fit the 16:9 aspect.
This is the offline edit (eventually we will recapture the footage uncompressed and export for HD 16:9 deliverable) but I need to create a DVD to show the client. I've tried copying the whole 5 min sequence into a sequence w/o 16:9 checked, then checking the box and resetting the aspect in Distort settings. Frankly, I think I'm missing something.
i need a 3:2 aspect Quicktime movie to export to DVD SP that has the 16:9 footage and 3:2 footage letterboxed - how can I do this? How much reedting is involved? I only have about 24 hours to solve this, so any help would be appreciated.
Thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you.
iMac G5 Mac OS X (10.4.4) 2.1 GHz FC Studio

Tá fáilte romhat.
Did you create a 16:9 project in DVDSP? If you did and your material looks stretched vertically in the DVDSP viewer, make sure your asset is flagged as 16:9.
You won't see any letterboxing in DVDSP or in DVD Player as they will just display a 16:9 format screen.
Letterboxing of 16:9 material is done in the DVD player if the DVD player is set up for a 4:3 display. If the DVD player is set up for a widescreen display no letterboxing will be done. This is how it should be. So if you author your DVD properly you needn't be concerned about how it will display on 4:3 TVs as this is the DVD player's job.

In FCE HD swithing between HD camcorder and SD camcorder problem

I am just starting to go HD. I've got my new Sony HC3 HD camcorder and I've just upgraded my mac to FCE HD. I was able to connect the fireware to the HD camcorder and import the footage just fine when I changed "Easy Setup" to "HDV-Apple Intermediate Codec 1080i60". The problem is I still want to be able to connect to my Canon Optura Xi SD camcorder. When I change the "Easy Setup" to "DV-NTSC", it can not see the SD camcorder. I've tried every option in the "Easy Setup" dropdown. I think I have tried every combination of exiting FCE HD, rebooting, disconnecting the firewire, turning the camcorder on / off, etc.
When I had FCE 2.0, I never had a problem connecting to my SD camcorder. Now I do. The only other point I want to mention is that no matter what option I select in the "Easy Setup", the "External A/V" error message (the one with the continue or check again option) always says:
"Unable to locate the following external devices:
Apple FireWire NTSC (720 x 480)".
thanks in advance for any help offered

Hi(Bonjour)!
Did you quit FCE HD before unpluging your HC3?
It's always a good idea to do all conections and turn on your camcorder to VCR mode before lauching FCE.
Avoid to plug and unplug differents camcorders in one FCE session.
Try to connect your DV camcorder in a new project and select DV-NTSC or firewire basic (canon camcorder are prone to be "uncontrolable" with DV NTSC ) in easy setup BEFORE creating a new sequence. Now quit, plug your DV cam and re-lauch FCE HD.
For your "warning problem" on startup, check "do not show A/V device warning on lauch" in user preference.
At last, you can trash all 3 FCE HD preference files.
Michel Boissonneault

How do you transfer video from a miniDV camcorder to the 2011 model of MacBook Pro

I recently found an old miniDV camcorder that was stored in my house from several years ago. There is video on the camcorder that I would like to import into my MacBook. However, the miniDV has a firewire connector and my MacBook does not. Is there a simple way to import the data to my MacBook?

If your MacBook has Thunderbolt, you can get a Thunderbolt to Firewire adapter which should give you the connectibity you need.
Allan

Importing and Exporting Video VHS and MiniDV

I just recently purchased an iMac 27-inch 3.1GHz (2TB Serial ATA Drive / 256GB Solid State Drive / 16GB Memory). I am interested in converting my family videos from my Sony camcorder (MiniDV) and VHS/DVD player.
I would prefer not to spend tons of money but I don't want poor quality either.
I have the Adobe Master Collection with the video software components. I can't recall since I am not at my computer if I have Final Cut (maybe it's Aperture I am thinking of). I have Toast Titanium but I would need to upgrade to the Pro version for better video components (but maybe I don't need to use it either).
What are some of the ways I can convert VHS and MiniDV cassettes to store it digital on my iMac or created a DVD disc?

Here is a software and device comparison chart with prices http://vhs-to-dvd-converters-review.toptenreviews.com/

HT2498 I connected a Sony miniDV camcorder ....

I connected a Sony miniDV camcorder on firewire port of a iMac late 2009 and Mavericks 10.9.2. Result: the iMac don't see the camera (I tested it whit iMovie 9 and 10).
The same connection whit Snow Leopard works fine. Why ??

Hi
May be You find help in my old list ?
NO CAMERA or A/D-box
Cable
Are You sure that You are using the FireWire Cable - USB-Cable will not work for miniDV tape Cameras FireWire - Sure not using the accompany USB-Cable but bought a 4-pin to 6-pin (or 9-pin) FW one ?
Test another FW-Cable very often the problem maker.
Camera
Test Your Camera on another Mac so that DV-in still works OK
Toggle in iMovie pref. Play-back via Camera (on <-> off some times)
Some Cameras has a Menu where You must select DV-out to get it to work
Camera connected to "charger" (mains adaptor) - not just on battery
Camera set in Playback mode - NOT Recording mode
Does Your Camera work on another Mac ?
Sorry to say it is to easy to turn the 6-pin end of the FW-cable 180 deg wrong.
This is lethal to the A/D-chip in the Camera = needs an expensive repair.
(Hard to find out - else than import/export to another Mac ceased to work
everything else is OK e.g. recording and playback to TV)
A/D-box
Is the dip-switches set right ?
Set to same standard as recorded/editing e.g. NTSC 29.97fps or PAL 25fps
Try resetting it
Connections
Daisy Chaining most often doesn’t work (some unique cases - it’s the only way that work (some Canon Cameras ?))
Try to avoid connecting Camera <--> external HD <--> Mac but import directly to the Mac then move
the Movie project to dedicated external hard disk.
FireWire-port - Can be re-setted by - Turn off Mac and disconnecting Mac from Mains/Power for 20-30 minutes
External device’s (hard disk’s)
Should be FireWire as USB/USB2 performs badly and so does Airport or Net-work connected ones too.
MUST BE - Mac OS Extended formatted - UNIX/DOS/FAT32/Mac OS Exchange - DO NOT WORK for video due to 4Gb barrier.
Mac
Free space on internal (start-up) hard disk ? Please specify the amount of free space.
(Other hard disks don't count)
I go for a minimum of 25Gb free space for 4x3 SD Video - and my guess is 5 times more for 16x9 HD ones
after material is imported and edited. No Camera or A/D-box
GarageBands fix - Close iMovie, Open GarageBand, Play some notes, Close GB and iMove can now be OK
Does Your Mac have a FireWire Port
White MacBooks - don't
MacBook-Air - don't
if not then a few Mac’s has a PCM-CIA slot and there are FW-Cards that makes a FW-port this way
else - NO SOLUTION
Only option as I get it is either
Use another Mac to Capture material (to an external USB2 - Mac OS Extended formatted hard disk - or -
Change to another Camera that can be used with Your Mac (no there are no miniDV tape Cameras that can)
If Your Mac-Book has a PCM-CIA Card place - then there are FW-port-Cards and then
You can import via this - but I've not seen this on more modern Macs. My PowerBook G4
has one and this FW-Card-port works greatly.
SoftWare
Delete iMovie pref. file may help sometimes. I rather start a new account, log into this and have a re-try.
Any strange Plug-ins into QuickTime as Perian etc ? Remove and try again.
FileVault is off ? (hopefully)
Screen Saver - OFF
Energy Saver - OFF
Using WHAT versions ? .
Mac OS - X.5.4 ?
QuickTime version ? (This is the heart in both iMovie and FinalCut)
iMovie’08 (7.1.?), 09 or 11 ?
iMovie HD 6 (6.0.4/3) ?
Other ways to import Your miniDV tape
Use another Camera. There where tape play-back stations from SONY
but they costed about 2-4 times a normal miniDV Camera.
If Your Camera works on another Mac. Make an iMovie movie project here and move it
over to Your Mac via an external hard disk.
(HAS TO BE Mac OS Extended formatted - USB/DOS/FAT32/Mac OS Exchange WILL NOT DO)
(Should be a FireWire one - USB/USB2 performs badly)
from LKN 1935.
Hi Bengt W, I tried it all, but nothing worked. Your answer has been helpful insofar as all the different trials led to the conclusion that there was something wrong with my iMovie software. I therefore threw everything away and reinstalled iMovie from the HD. After that the exportation of DV videos (there has not been any problem with HDV videos) to my Sony camcorders worked properly as it did before. Thank you. LKN 1935
from Karsten.
in addition to Bengt's excellent '9 yards of advice' ..
camera set to 'Play' , not rec/computer/etc.?
camera not on battery, but power-line?
did your Mac 'recognize' this camera before...?
a technical check.
connect camera, on, playback, fw-connected...
click on the Blue Apple, upper left of your screen ..
choose 'About . . / More . .
under Firewire.. what do you read . . ?
More
FileVault - Secure that it’s turned off
Network storage - DOESN’T WORK
Where did You store/capture/import Your project ?
External USB hard disk = Bad Choice / FireWire = Good
If so it has to be Mac OS Extended formatted
----> UNIX/DOS/FAT32/Mac OS Exchange is NOT Working for VIDEO !
mbolander
Thanks for all your suggestions. What I learned is that I had a software problem. I had something called "Nikon Transfer" on my Mac that was recognizing my Canon camcorder as a still camera and was preventing iMovie from working properly. After un-installing Nikon Transfer and doing a reboot, everything worked great.
I never liked the Nikon Transfer software anyway--I guess I'll get a cheap card reader and use that to transfer photos in the future.
No Camera or bad import
USB hard disk
Network storage
File Vault is on
jiggaman15dg wrote
if you have adobe cs3 or 4 and have the adobe bridge on close that
or no firewire will work
see if that helps
DJ1249 wrote
The problem was the external backup hard drive that is connected, you need to disconnect the external drive before the mac can see the video camera.
MaryBoog wrote
Maybe your problems is solved in the meantime, but for all others this might help as I had the same problem, also have the Sony HDR-HC7, but the 7e (Europe, PAL). I found this link today and it works perfectly
//support.sony-europe.com/tutorials/dime/videotransfer/vtransfer.aspx site=odw_en_GB&sec=DVH&m=HDR-HC7E
What I exactly did.- put camera in play mode - open guide - choose connection guide - choose comp./printer (where to transfer movie to) - select connection.- i-link (on my camera) but equal to firewire - OK - choose HDV - choose NO for conversion of i.link.
Settings are shown then (VCR HDV/DV.- HDV and i.link-conv..- OFF), press OK, OK, END.
Switch camera off. Connect firewire cable to camera & Mac. Switch camera on, in play/edit mode.
Open i-movie, choose import from camera. On screen below the camera connection is shown.- DV (HDV). Now you can import, automatically or manually.
This worked perfectly for me. Took me 2 days to find out. Could not find any clear thread explaining what I had to do on the camera and the manual was not clear either.
Yours Bengt W

Log and Transfer: Jittery Footage with AVCHD

I have a Canon HFS10, and I'm importing the footage to FCP 7. Whatever codec I select, the footage shows jittery banding (don't know the pro term) on any kind of movement. Oddly, the least problems occur with Apple 422 Proxy, which, as I understand it, is an offline codec. I have a feeling there's some setting somewhere I'm overlooking. I've fiddled with all the Log and Capture preferences: Plain Stereo etc. I'm in the UK, so my footage is PAL. I'm using Canon's MXP setting for shooting the footage, which is the highest setting: 1,920x1,080 res., but I get the same problem with the FXP setting, too. The footage plays back fine on the camcorder, and even in the log & transfer preview window.
Can anybody help? Tearing my hair out here, and there's not a lot of it left.

Actually, I may have found the solution. I've changed the camcorder's recording rate from 50p to 25fps, and now the footage imports beautifully. I don't know if this has affected the quality of the footage in any way, but it doesn't seem to have done so. I've a feeling it's something to do with interlacing. Any tech input would be appreciated.

Digitizing minidv cam footage in Premiere CS6

Has anyone else had any issues digitizing minidv cam footage in CS6 & if so, how did you trouble shoot the issue?

As long as your (unknown brand/model) camera is not actually analog, the video is already digital, so all you are doing with your Firewire connection is transferring from tape to computer
http://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/kb/cant-capture-dv-hdv-video.html
-and http://forums.adobe.com/message/4708997
I have NOT used it, but many say to try this for HDV capture http://strony.aster.pl/paviko/hdvsplit.htm
I have NOT used either, but many say to try these for SD capture http://windv.mourek.cz/ or http://www.exsate.com/products/dvcapture/
Also, you MAY need to use the Legacy Driver http://forums.adobe.com/message/2981411

Importing from sony miniDV camcorder

I have a new MacBook which does not have a firewire port. My miniDV camcorder (sony DCR-HC48) has a dock that supports both firewire and USB. However iMovie does not recognize my camcorder through the USB connection. Do I have to connect it using firewire? What are my options?

Your options are to return your Mac Book and get one that has a Firewire Port, like the White MacBook, or the MacBook Pro.
Apple accepts returns in the first 14 days no questions asked. After that, they normally don't but it would not hurt to ask.
Other than that, do you have a friend's Mac you could borrow?

Need help finding MiniDV camcorder with AV in

Hi,
I'm shopping for a MiniDV camcorder. Besides using it to make movies with iMovie, I want to be able to transfer analog video (i.e., VHS) into the unit. I understand that some MiniDV camcorders have an AV/in port for this. I'm having trouble finding such a unit. I'm looking to spend up to $500. Can you please lead me to one or two? Thanks.

James,
Here's a popular model by Sony. (Ya can't go wrong with a Sony).
Sony DCR-HC96 MiniDV 3.3MP Digital Handycam Camcorder with 10x Optical Zoom (Includes Handycam Station)
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-DCR-HC96-Digital-Handycam-Camcorder/dp/B000E0I5AI
Analog-to-Digital Converter: Yes (with Pass Through)
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SYDisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=vrAxLbfxkpEx6vHUN9I7Jvj_-OYqrs5CuzY=?Categor yName=dcc_DICamcordersMiniDVHandycamCamcorders&ProductSKU=DCRHC96&TabName=specs&var2=
from Sony $649,
from PricGrabber.com $515 - $937 (depending on merchant)
Above all things, do your homework on camcorder model (features) and price.

Sony DVD camcorder series to miniDV camcorder to iMovie?

I have read many posts about the inability to import these into iMovie. I have a friend who bought one and wants to know if I can put his video on the web. Is it possible to run the AV outputs from his camcorder into the AV inouts of my miniDV camcorder, and then use the Firewire out to iMovie? i do this with old VHS tapes, and the miniDV camcorder acts as an A/D converter.
Thanks,
Ken

I have a Sony minidv camcorder DCR-TRV20, and although I have never done it, it has the ability to accept input from a Sony Hi-8 camcorder and pass it on to Imovie. If I recall corectly, this step is necessary to translate the Hi-8 analog signal to digital.
should that fail, you could purchase a Canopus ADVC-100 and use it to upload vcr videos,hi-8 videos, and minidv videos into Imovie. This is what is use and it works just fine. My unit cost me about $120 three years ago. I do not know whether or not there are new models.

MiniDV camcorder iMovie Apple TV

I am using SD MiniDV camcorder (pal). I import and edit the clips in iMovie and then share the project to iTunes (ATV - large). Then I use ATV to watch it. I am somewhat disappointed about the picture quality in ATV. Some examples:
1) Play the clip straight from camera (plugging it to tv). Picture is good as expected.
2) Convert the (un-edited) dv-file to h.264 ((960 * 540, 4 mbps limit) using mpegstreamclip, then import it to iTunes. Using ATV to play it, picture is not so good as in example 1 but acceptable.
3) The easiest method: Share the project to iTunes (large) in iMovie. Picture is worse than in example 2 and there is quite a big difference comparing ex. 1 and ex. 3. It is difficult to describe it but the contrast looks worse and the picture looks like I am watching it through some misty glasses.
Now, I could convert the dv-files to AIC-format and de-interlace them (using mpegstreamclip) before importing them into iMovie. Perhaps the outcome from iMovie would then be better. But is there another way so I would not have to re-create my projects (editing and all..) in iMovie all over again?

No, that makes it even worse. Actually the medium choice is 640 * 360, since my source is 16:9. And my sorce is 720 * 576 (flagged 16:9).
I would think 1024 * 576 would be ideal in my case. But I really did not see any difference between 960 * 540 and 1024 * 576 (using mpegstreamclip to convert the dv-avi to h.264). They both looked ok although not as good as the original.

Sony MiniDv camcorder / New macbook Alum compatibility

Hi all,
I've read some posts about the subject and realized it will be tough to import high quality video from my minidv camera to the new macbook.
However I wonder if someone could advise any external device that would allow me to import full quality video.
My camcorder is a Sony dcr-hc19e with Usb out, DV out and A/V out ports.
My macbook alum, as you all are aware, just has Usb ports..
I would import using Final Cut Pro 6.
Thanks,
Adrian Garcia

Any device that can output video to a Mac via USB should be able to do it at full quality. The type of interface doesn't affect the quality of data transfer, on the speed. So only when you're doing on-the-fly capture, as with an analog-to-digital converter box, would the speed of the interface really matter.
To the best of my knowledge, your camcorder cannot transfer video from tape to your Mac via USB. I fact, as far as I know no MiniDV camcorder can output video to a Mac via USB.
So other than purchasing a different camcorder, there is probably no solution for you for importing video into an aluminum MacBook.
Regards.

Combining MPEG1 and miniDV camcorder footage

Similar Messages

Maybe you are looking for