Comments on the way people express themselves

Hi,
of course this is an irrelevant to the forum topic but it sometimes concerns me and i would like to know what you think about it (of course, if you find it inappropriate feel free to remove it or tell me to delete it )....
The need to write this topic emits from the following topic : create file (of any kind)
where i asked a question and Mr Satish Kandi replied the "have u read the utl_file documentation ? "
From my point of view (perhaps i am wrong) this is something like : "you shouldnt be asking that and taking our precious time with straightforward questions like this, instead you should be reading the documentation and you would have found the anwser" (and that is the "light" version of how the sentense may be translated).
Well, to my opinion
a.i never obliged anyone to anwser my question (I or anyone else posing questions)
b.i never asked anyone to postpone his work in order to help me
c. all people are here because they want to
d. all people here answer questions because they want to. If they dont want to or they dont have the time, they just dont anwser
I'd like to hear your comments about that
Theodore
ps: of course i have the utl_file documentation, probably not as thoroughly as i should, but i had tried it....anyway
Message was edited by:
juststarter

Just because you're using something does not necessarily mean you've read the documentation!
A lot of the time, what people think is obviously implied in their words is not always clear to the rest of us who don't have access to the background information.
Some people seem to think that they can ask their questions here and expect an answer without having to do any work for themselves. I think you'll agree that in the case of students, that's a very, very bad habit to get into. Besides, in much the same way that front-line support's generic first question is "Have you shut down and restarted?", the forum's first question is usually "Have you read the documentation" (or in the cases where it is clear that the OP hasn't done that, "Read the documentation!").
I google and read the documentation, but when I'm asking questions in the forums, I state that, otherwise how are people meant to know that I've done so?
Clearly, you don't fall into the class of people who expect the answers on a platter (golden, for preference), which automatically makes people more inclined to answer you. However, providing as much relevant information in the first place goes a long way to prevent being asked if you've read the documentation *{;-)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

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I managed to locate the "./bin/cal/release/CAL/GemCutterSaveModule.cal" file which seems to be reflecting what I&#39;m doing in the cutter - it might be useful to explicitly point people to this so that they can see what is going on if they&#39;re interested?</span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px"><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px" class="Apple-style-span"><br /></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px"><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px" class="Apple-style-span">p13 - By this point, Data Constructors haven&#39;t been explicitly explained, so mentioning their appearance in the browser might be confusing if people aren&#39;t familiar with Haskell?</span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px"><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px" class="Apple-style-span"><br /></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px"><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px" class="Apple-style-span">p48 - The discussion of the ordering of arguments and partial evaluation assumes an understanding of currying which hasn&#39;t been explained yet in the document.</span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px"><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px" class="Apple-style-span"><br /></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px"><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px" class="Apple-style-span">p49 - I couldn&#39;t get a local variable to show up in the code editor as described by the document. I used the following:</span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px"><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px" class="Apple-style-span"><br /></span></div><div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px" class="Apple-style-span">let a = (2*x);</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px" class="Apple-style-span">in</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px" class="Apple-style-span">greaterThan a 17</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px" class="Apple-style-span"><br /></span></div><div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px" class="Apple-style-span"><br /></span></div><div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px" class="Apple-style-span">p55 - ok, this is where the typeclass explanation is. Might be worth a forward ref earlier in the doc.</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px" class="Apple-style-span">"A list of characters (a string) will be [Char]," .... my understanding is that Strings aren&#39;t lists of Chars in CAL - so maybe this could be confusing.</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px" class="Apple-style-span"><br /></span></div><div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px" class="Apple-style-span">The description of type classes here could probably use being tidied up a bit - I think it would likely be confusing to someone completely unfamiliar with them. Might be useful to stress the similarities (& of course differences) with Java interfaces.</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px" class="Apple-style-span"><br /></span></div><div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px" class="Apple-style-span"><br /></span></div><div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px" class="Apple-style-span">p58 - "The language is a functional language. This means that every entity in the language is a function." ... is this possibly misleading - given the existence of base types etc?</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px" class="Apple-style-span"><br /></span></div><div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px" class="Apple-style-span">typo: "This is feature of lambda calculus" -> "This is a feature..."  .... in fact, given that this isn&#39;t explicitly referenced in the doc, might be worth removing it.</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px" class="Apple-style-span"><br /></span></div><div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px" class="Apple-style-span"><br /></span></div><div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px" class="Apple-style-span">p60 - "length :: [a] -> Double"  should be "length :: [a] -> Int"</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px" class="Apple-style-span"><br /></span></div><div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px" class="Apple-style-span">typo: fundamentalstandard   ... missing space</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px" class="Apple-style-span"><br /></span></div><div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px" class="Apple-style-span">p61 - "A type reduces the set of possible values for a variable from an infinite set, to a smaller set." - possibly not the best explanation.</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px" class="Apple-style-span"><br /></span></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div>

    Thanks very much for the comments. Â
    The Gem Cutter Manual is the least 'evolved' of docs we have put out (written in 2001 and only given some TLC last week!). To be honest, we almost didn't put it out, but as I think you've confirmed, it is worth it because we need an intro to the tool. Your notes are very welcome, and will help us tighten up the text, especially in some of its 'fuzzier' aspects ;-)
    Aside from your points about the document flow turns of phrase, I can comment on the following points:
    >[As a side point, it might increase usability of the gem cutter if the inputs / outputs were larger? or maybe the mouse 'snapped' to them when dragging?]
    Yes, the snapping idea would be a good feature. I think it was discussed once(!) Connecting in the regular way does require one's fine motor skills to be in reasonable shape.Â
    >At this point I'm still not sure whether Gem Cutter is effectively just providing a graphical way of writing CAL code, or whether it's doing something else. I managed to locate the "./bin/cal/release/CAL/GemCutterSaveModule.cal" file which seems to be reflecting what I'm doing in the cutter - it might be useful to explicitly point people to this so that they can see what is going on if they're interested?
    The Gem Cutter does indeed 'just write CAL code' (in fact just functions). In its current form, it's utility lies as a kind of interactive laboratory for when people are experimenting with functional logic. Typically it therefore has the most usefulness in the following situations:
    - When learning about functional programming
    - When setting out to design some new functional module from scratch (where you want a more RAD approach, quickly prototyping some ideas, testing them, lots of iterative refinement etc).Â
    - When playing with composition - perhaps testing the public interfaces of some modules to check that desired logic can be built from the 'building blocks' they expose (particularly useful with the sort of high-level 'functional models' we build to express high-level data behaviours).
    Around here, I tend to see it up on people's screens when they are at the beginning of some larger task. Once some key ideas have been established, then people tend to take what the Gem Cutter has produced in the way of code, and move over to a regular syntax workflow (in Eclipse). Â
    The biggest strength of the Gem Cutter is its interactivity IMO. Using the tool often provides considerable insights as you see types change on connectors or run small portions of code (you can run any 'collector'). This is certainly valuable at particular points, but when you are done 'programming through a keyhole', then you just resort to your favourite text editor. To me, this can be a big 'something else'. Â
    BTW, another way to see the code that gets produced from the Gem Cutter is to connect logic to the Target Gem (result) and then use the "Edit->Copy Special->Target Gem Source" menu option. This will put CAL code into your paste buffer. Â
    >I couldn't get a local variable to show up in the code editor as described by the document. I used the following: let a = (2*x);ingreaterThan a 17
    Er...yes, I think that functionality is defunct (probably changed sometime in 2004!), sorry about the misleading information. The Code Gem Editor these days does not show local variables on the LHS, just arguments and functions. Instead, local variables are highlighted in the code and a tooltip will indicate what they
    represent. Â

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