'Convert CMYK Colors to RGB' still runs havoc in 9! (Plus a PDF version problem)

This post is to warn people about severe issues, and how to avoid them. Issues with the CMYK color setting in FM9.x have been reported here earlier, such as:
http://forums.adobe.com/message/1237696#1237696
http://forums.adobe.com/message/1237852#1237852
http://forums.adobe.com/message/1237165#1237165
However, I do not think this issue has been warned about anywhere near as much as it should have. And, as usual, Adobe is silent (they should have a big poster on their site warning about this issue! And they have even claimed that patches have "solved" the issues with CMYK).
Just recently, while experimenting with FM9 again, I had extreme problems, which, at first, seemed totally unrelated to this CMYK setting. But after having struggled extremely hard for many many many hours, I finally found out. Now is the time to inform others:
First a note about versions: FrameMaker 9.0p237, Acrobat Distiller 9.1, XP SP2
It looks perfectly okay on screen in FrameMaker, exactly as in FM8. But when saved as pdf, several things are "corrupted". Examples: no kerning after the letter 'T', such as the word 'Text'. Dotted leader for a right aligned tab disappears. Some objects from the master pages, such as a logo, become enclosed in a rectangle (a border of the frame/object), but it only happens on *some* body pages, whereas other body pages using the same master page are ok!!? Equations are formatted differently from the way they should, with the wrong font for number, etcetera.
Solutions:
1. When 'Save as PDF...', untick 'Convert CMYK Colors to RGB' in PDF Setup. Same setting is in the file's 'Format > Document > PDF Setup...'
A drawback with this method is that, as of Acrobat Distiller v9, it does not seem to respect the pdf version specified in the PDF job Options! I get PDF 1.6 with this method, despite my job option specifies version 1.5. (This happens also with FrameMaker 8 if Acrobat is v9.) So you *have* to optimize it in Acrobat in order to get a web friendly PDF (PDF 1.4 or 1.5).
or
2. Print to 'Adobe PDF'.
In this latter case, you can set the same 'PDF Setup' settings under the button 'Setup...', EXCEPT that there is no tick box for 'Convert CMYK Colors to RGB', and it does not matter what setting you have chosen in the file's 'Format > Document > PDF Setup...', it will be RGB conversion in any case. Make sure that after you exit the setting, the tick box for 'Print to File' is NOT ticked! This method respects the pdf version specified in the PDF job Options! I get PDF 1.5, which is what my job option specifies.
(For some reason, Acrobat/Reader does not render these two PDFs exactly the same, except in extreme magnification! Maybe it has to do with the different PDF versions of the files.)
In either case, the solution actually solves ALL problems I listed! Despite it seems to have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with colors! Some day in the distant future, CMYK might actually work! But, for myself, I would prefer a proper color management instead...
Best Regards,
/Harald

Oops!! Not until now I discover that under 'Solutions' I happened to write 'untick' where it should be 'tick'! I.e, colors SHOULD be converted to RGB in order to circumvent the problems! I.e it runs havoc in v9 when CMYK colors are NOT converted to RGB! Don't know how I came to write the opposite, but probably I started out by describing the situation where the problems are seen rather than describing how to avoid them.
Equally strange is that nobody corrected me, but perhaps the mistake was so obvious? (But whether you see problems or not might depend on what fonts you use. So, under certain special circumstances, CMYK might actually work without these reported problems.)
I am also a bit surprised that others haven't reported the issue that the PDF version set in PDF job Options isn't respected when using 'Save As PDF' and Acrobat 9? (Or maybe someone has, but I have missed it.)

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FM10 Crashes when Convert CMYK colors to RGB selected

Hi folks,
I have searched for info on this issue and found a couple of items but I'm still having problems doing what I need to do.
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(1)     Although FrameMaker 10 is a 32-bit application, there was no issue with it running under Windows 7 64-bit. You certainly don't need to run it under any XP mode!!!!
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I've got a problem spent the last two days trying to problem solve....
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Do you know what the ink manager is and how it works? You can output a spot color as anything you like without cahnging the actual definition.
In the example below the frame is filled with Pantone 386c, a bright yellow. I created a new Spot color in RGB mode that is a salmony color, then in Ink manager I first aliased the Panton to the new swatch, then clicked the icon next to the new swatch to output that color as process (and the process equivalent is RGB in this case). If there are no Spots that actually need to be printed, you can also just click the All Spots to Process box instread of doing them individually.
In normal view you don't see the reult of the aliasing, but turn on overprint preview and here's the same frame:
As you can see in the screen shot the frame is still selected and filled with the Pantone yellow, and all that is necessary to output to press is to remove the alias.
Yes, this seems like mare work than redefining the color, but if you ever go for a reprint and forget that you made a definition change you'll be in for an expensive shock.

ID picks CMYK colors as RGB

Hello
The problem is: when I try to pick a CMYK color in InDesign, it immediately switches it to RGB. The method I pick the color doesn't matter, even if I pick my color from the swatches (C0, M0, Y0, K100), the object is colored with something like C79 M81 Y80 K100.
For you to realise how much "fun" I am having, I add some pictures
type in: C50, M50, Y0, K50
http://gyazo.com/02c492161a03113b1445f9e75d927d89.png
click OK, then immediately double click the color to enter the picker again, and there it is! ...or is it?
http://gyazo.com/961896f820f391add37b8bb2f0d36be4.png
select the swatch C0 M0 Y0 K100
http://gyazo.com/9510d62fcac06cf4e8a3c08637545dcb.png
double click the color to enter the picker, and there it is! ...or is it?
http://gyazo.com/be421bd2a34d7f7d0fd503aa3097113b.png
I use ID CS2 (running on Windows 8), recently I changed my computer, so, since the CS2 activation server is offline, I was forced to use the installer downloaded from Adobe's website. That's when it started, so either it's a problem with this particular distribution, or I had a setting on my old ID installation I'm not aware of. Either way, the usual "if ID acts strange, trash the preferences" method doesn't apply here.
This is wrong on so many levels I guess I'm missing something obvious. Help!

> Are you really running CS2 in Windows 8?
Haha, as long as it does it's job, why not? It costs more than I make in a month, so sorry, no yearly updates
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My publisher/printer requests a "hi-res pdf" as camera ready copy for a book I'm writing which will be printed in 2 colors (black and a spot color shade of blue). The pages have images from various sources and text with CMYK approximations of that blue which I'd like to convert to the spot color. Is there a convenient way to do this sort of operation through "preflight" or convert colors - so the final document has only K of CMYK and the spot color?

Yes, see my reply here.

Export PNG in CMYK vs. RGB. Changing colors.

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They've given me and their web company specific RGB values for their logo. These are based on the Pantone book, and likely different than the conversion Illustrator will do.
The idea being, they want the website and logo to be the exact same blue. And they are based on the values they gave, but they look different than the original Pantone. Brighter and more vibrant. I'm dealing with another member of the client team, trying to use Illustrator on her end for smaller tasks, and she wants to know why the rgb PNG logo (which I entered in manual values for based on the Pantone book), is so different than the Pantone eps file. In the past, when I just exported as a straight PNG without tinkering, the perceptual match was there. Now it isn't. How can I explain this?

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I'd like to purchase Acrobat Standard if it will let me control the color space used in the PDF it creates. I need to send a color file to a commercial book printer, and they require the PDF file to use CMYK colors, not RGB.
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Why Illustrator CS6 convert CMYK to RGB when I do "Add to switches" in Color menu?

1. Open Color menu and work with color in CMYK.
2. Do "Add to switches" (or "Создать новый образец" in Russian)
3. See that new color was added like RGB not like CMYK.
4. When I open parameters it show me HSB options.
5. I switch it to CMYK and push OK
6. Nothing cange - RGB in name and HSB in options.
Look like it's error.

I found what change it to normal way, but logicaly it's should not be a reason for autoconvert colors. If I choose CMYK and want add CMYK color it should be CMYK (in name minimum) and not RGB.
File->Documents Colors->CMYK(should be, but RGB was)
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Why do Adobe Color CC and Indesign CC not convert CMYK to RGB the same?

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Thanks very much

I found what change it to normal way, but logicaly it's should not be a reason for autoconvert colors. If I choose CMYK and want add CMYK color it should be CMYK (in name minimum) and not RGB.
File->Documents Colors->CMYK(should be, but RGB was)
Right now options open like CMYK, not HSB. But if I want color in RGB it added like CMYK. Options like in CMYK, not HSB, again. Still look like error.

Converting RGB to CMYK color

Hi All,
I have few BASIC Questions on converting RGB to CMYK in Photoshop and Illustrator. Hope could get some professional insights here.
1, Are all the DTG printers set only in CMYK color mode ?
2, If there is no difference after viewing RGB image with 'Gamaut Warning' (Photoshop), Does that mean I'll have the exact print result as monitor view ?
and Basically no need for CMYK conversion ?
3, Please list some the most effective way to convert RGB to CMYK, and keep the final CMYK color result as close as the RGB.
4, when I simply convert one RGB image to CMYK color, why Ps/AI don't allow me to save as PNG file ?
( I save the file as PDF, but I cannot edit this PDF using apple preview app )
5, compare Photoshop to Illustrator, which one result better final CMYK color image ?

Thanks for the detailed reply. Sure clear some of the doubts.
I just start to draw/design in Photoshop and illustrator, I save my files most as PNG, for a transparent background.
After I went to officework do the poster printing, I found the color of my print image are not as vivid as Mac preview.
To be precise, the poster I printed looks like has a very thin grey layer, it is not much noticeable, but it indeed lost some vivid color. As I want to print out my works and keep color as close exact as Mac preview, here is the issue of coverting RGB CMYK.
Please feel free to add for below:
1, Should I set color space in CMYK before drawing in PS/AI
2, in PS, I convert profile from PNG file to CMYK save as psd file, that psd file preview exactly same as PNG.
But when saved as PDF, the file preview a bit grey. Can someone explain this?
3, Now im thinking, since CMYK is all about printers, it really should be the profession in printing shop who shall check my image, and edit/convert to the right color space to fit their printers.

Is it ok in the long run to placing a RGB photoshop eps file into a Illustrator CS2 CMYK color mode

Is it ok in the long run to placing a RGB photoshop eps file into a Illustrator CS2 CMYK color mode document ?
I am using windows XP with Adobe Creative suite 2.
In both Adobe Photoshop CS2 and Illustrator CS2 have the same color settings.
If I take a RGB file that was created in Photoshop CS2 and place this file in a CMYK color mode document in Illustrator CS2, does this cause a problem for the output of the document ?
If you look at the ''Document Info'' window you can now see that the RGB file is now a CMYK file. Is this a good working habit ?
Thanks in advance. :)

>Is it ok in the long run to placing a RGB photoshop eps file into a Illustrator CS2 CMYK color mode document ?
Please explain why you would do such a thing? (Why RGB, and why EPS.)
>If I take a RGB file that was created in Photoshop CS2 and place this file in a CMYK color mode document in Illustrator CS2, does this cause a problem for the output of the document ?
Yes.
You are working in CMYK mode presumably because your Illustrator document is destined for output on a PostScript device -- e.g., a printing press. That means that your RGB image will undergo a space conversion somewhere in the process, and the questions are when and how?
The issue is compounded by the fact that Illustrator ignores color profiles embedded in EPS files by Photoshop. (Just another reason not to use EPS.)
By performing the conversion yourself in Photoshop, you take control of the process and ensure predictable color.

Automatically convert from RGB to CMYK color mode

I have over 900 barcodes provided in EPS format. When I open them in illustrator, they are coming in as an RGB color space file. I need them gray scale solid black in CMYK color mode. I can batch using actions to convert the artwork using "Edit Colors > Convert to Grayscale". However, the document color mode remains RGB. It appears, even after using "Convert to Grayscale", that the RGB color mode goofs up the placed .ai file in InDesign, treating it as RGB and seeing it as a mix of CMYK rather than the 100% black only it needs to be for proper sharp printing.
The actions pallet doesn't record converting the document color mode. Is there a way to automate that file conversion so they are all saved as CMYK rather than RGB, or am I stuck opening each of the 900+ files manually?

While recording the action, from the popup menu in the Actions Panel choose Insert Menu Item, then from the main menu choose File > Document Color Mode > CMYK color.

Converting to CMYK color profile (for print) in raw format

I am looking to self publish a cookbook in lightningsource. They need the photos in cmyk format. When is it best to convert to this color profile from rgb?
I have bridge CS5
What I'm doing currently:
I click on my .arw image file and select "open in camera raw" which brings me to an editing screen. At the very bottom is says rgb, and 240 ppi
I need 300 ppi at least and cmyk color.
Now I know how to change these things in Photoshop, but I was taught that editing it in camera raw in bridge is better to preserve quality for print.
Should I just edit it in raw and then convert to 300 dpi and cmyk color in photoshop? Or is there a way to do this in bridge? Whats the difference? Any advice will help, trying to make my pictures look amazing in print

Correct me if I misunderstood anything!
You are on the right track except for the ppi story. The ppi settings just are a figure expressing the amount of pixels stored in 1 inch, without the width and height figures of the image itself you can't do much with it and just changing this figure is not changing the total amount of available pixels.
For instance create a new document at 300 ppi and use the international paper size A4 (21 x 29,7 cm). The amount of pixels is 2480 x 3508 (roughly the result of an 8 MP dSLR.
Use the image size option in PS and be sure to not resample (meaning creating new pixels or deleting pixels to alter the original file size that is 24,9 MB). Now change the amount of pixels to whatever you like. If you increase the number the width and height decrease, and vice versa. Yet the amount of pixels and file size stay at 2480 x 3508 and 24,9 MB.
But with the specs of wanted width and height for the end result of 300 ppi starts making sense.
For instance you have a image at the size of a post stamp and an image at international paper size (A4) and both are 300 ppi. The small post stamp size would be in cm about 2 x 3,5 while the A4 size has about 21 x 30 cm width and height.
So you can imagine having both needed to be printed at the A4 size in 300 dpi (printers work with dots, hence they use dpi - dots per inch- and while not the same they both often use the 300 figure and stand for pretty high quality result) the A4 sized original will meet the wanted standards without problems while the post stamp would have to be resampled to the new A4 size and when having still 300 ppi needed there would be a lot of interpolation (creating new pixels to match the new size) and this would often result in pixelated or worse quality print result, because PS has to use guess (albeit quit educated guessing) work to add more pixels that are needed to reach the new dimensions.
ACR has the advantage to set the ppi by default at 300 but as said, as long as you don't alter width and height of the original it is just a figure without any significant importance until you know the complete specs for the output source.

'Convert CMYK Colors to RGB' still runs havoc in 9! (Plus a PDF version problem)

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