Cross references are just unusable
As stated in several other discussions (with NO answers), using cross references in a multi-document book is ridiculous. Every single change made in the document cause a slow-down that is just absurd -- it's taking me 10 minutes to change a SINGLE WORD. Does Adobe or anyone else have a solution to this problem? Because without one, you might as well just throw the feature away. Totally useless.
nick25 wrote:
Sometimes you just have to chuckle. After a relaxing night, I come back to once again face this dopey issue. I open the book, then one of the documents therein. I make ONE a ONE-CHARACTER CHANGE and watch as the document I opened goes out and opens another document in the book, one that it obviously contains cross references to, FIFTEEN TIMES IN A ROW (yes, I counted), probably once for each link in the document. Obviously, I am now going to open that other document FIRST to hopefully speed up the process. But you just have to laugh -- maybe I CAN laugh because it's Friday -- at how a programmer at Adobe can let something as blatantly stupid as this happen in a finished product. Oh, and I bet this is going to make exporting to PDF and any indexing completel impossible, too. Thanks Adobe, for this brilliant "design". Wow.
Not fun, I agree.
Just a wild guess: have you verified that Preferences > File Handling > Links > Check Links Before Opening Document is disabled (unchecked?) I don't know if x-refs are processed by this option, but it's a possibility worth trying. And, if your docs contain many links, it's probably worth disabling whenever it won't affect your work.
Other slow-down features I don't think have been mentioned include Preferences > Spelling > Dynamic Spelling, and Preferences > Autocorrect. Disabling both of these may improve text handling.
HTH
Regards,
Peter
Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices
Similar Messages
-
Acrobat 9 Pro: Links to Word TOC and cross references are lost
I'm testing Acrobat 9 Pro and while it successfully creates a PDF from Word 2003 with bookmarks, all my TOC and internal page reference links are lost.
I have triple checked the conversion settings from the Adobe PDF menu option in Word, and the "Convert cross-references and table of contents to links" check box is definitely selected.
I used the same Word document on another machine with Acrobat 6 Pro installed - and the TOC and cross ref links were created successfully. As far as I can see the Adobe PDF settings in Word 2003 on both machines are the same - the only difference is that one uses Acrobat 6 Pro and the other uses Acrobat 9 Pro.
The only setting in 9 Pro I turned off was the 'enable accessibility tagging' one; it's also turned off in 6 Pro. The remaining settings are the default.
A clickable TOC and internal links is essential for my clients who often have 400+ page documents.
Anybody have any suggestions? Or can anybody confirm that they do/don't get the same behavior in Acrobat 9 Pro?Thanks Abhigyan - your test PDF worked fine for me.
This is what I've done today:
1. Checked for all instances of pdfm*.dot files and removed any that were lurking in old Application Data and Microsoft Office folders.
2. Deleted all Acrobat 5 and 6 folders and subfolders still lurking in Program Files.
3. Used Add/Remove to delete Adobe Reader 8 and its updates. I figure I can always install Reader 9 if I need it as a separate app.
4. Checked that everything was gone using the Windows Installer CleanUp utility (it was).
5. Restarted my machine.
6. Turned off my anti-virus software.
7. Did a search for any pdfm*.dot files - found one only in the current Microsoft Office folder and left it there.
8. Reinstalled Acrobat 9 Professional.
9. Opened my test Word 2003 document.
10. Checked all the Acrobat conversion settings and left them as the defaults.
11. Converted the doc to PDF and checked for internal links. Yes! The TOC links worked! But my joy was short-lived as the page link didn't work...
12. Tried various other conversion settings based on some suggestions from Lance in first level Adobe Support yesterday - still no page link. And I also lost the TOC links when I cleared the Enable Accessibility check box on the Settings tab of the conversion settings.
13. Checked the Edit > Preferences > Convert To PDF settings for Word in Acrobat 9 - add bookmarks and add links are both selected (default).
14. Used Acrobat 9 to create the PDF (File > Create > From File) hoping that this might might a difference. Nope. No TOC or page links.
15. Changed conversion settings back to default via Word 2003, and created a PDF from a longer document. Again the TOC links worked, the URLs worked (they always did), the bookmarks worked (they always did too), but the none of the internal page cross-reference links worked.
So my summary is this:
* I can only create TOC links *if* Enable Accessibility is turned on, but I have always turned this off in earlier versions of Acrobat as I don't need it and it made the process of creating a PDF from a long document incredibly slow - I'm wary of using it!
* I cannot get internal page links to work at all, no matter which method I use to create the PDF (from within Word or within Acrobat), and no matter which conversion settings I select.
I really don't know what to try next. Manually creating links for what could be hundreds of cross-references in a single document is NOT an option, especially as I have many of these long documents.
Any further suggestions? -
Display cross-references' linked documents filename in the xref panel
Our company creates technical manuals consisting of five chapters, all named the same, except with a different prefix. For example the "ABC Widget" manual has an introduction chapter named "ABC 1 - Introduction", a safety chapter named "ABC 2 - Safety", etc. Many times I re-use documents for creating subsequent manuals using the "Save As" command. So the "ABC 1 - Introduction" chapter would be saved as "EFG 1 - Introduction" for the "EFG Widget" book. For all the internal xrefs it saves a whole lot of time since all of the xrefs are preserved. But for cross-document references it creates a problem. For example, if the "ABC 1 - Introduction" chapter has a xref to "ABC 2 - Safety", when I save the Introduction chapter as "EFG 1 - Introduction" it will still retain the xref to "ABC 2 - Safety".
Right now, the only way to see if there are xrefs pointing to latent docs, is to check each one manually. If the xref panel displayed a column indicating the filename of the linked documents, I would be able to tell at a glance if that xref was pointing to the wrong document.
Thank you.
ID CS5, MACHi Van,
I fear, I expressed myself not very clear. I try again.
We have DITA structured documents. However, lastest status often was saved in the FM document. The xml documents often are not representing the final status.
When I open the FM8 document in FM9 everything looks pretty good.
But: When I want to save the document as xml with FM9, I'm getting errors regarding the cross references.
The cross references which were created in FM8 - doesn't matter, if a valid xml document or a FM document - always look the same.
(BTW: I don't think that in structured documents cross references always refer to elemts with a unique ID.)
example from xml which was created with FM8:
<xref href = "#id08B4A0R30E9" type = "fm:Chapter">"..."</xref>
the only difference in the FM document is that the element is called fm-xref there, as it's not an external url.
in FM9 those cross references are totally different.
example from xml which was created in FM9:
<xref href = "#id08B4A0R30E9" class = "- topic/xref">"..."</xref>
When saving the FM documents with the cross references from the first example as xml in FM9 (we don't have FM8 anymore), I get an error that the attribute type is not defined.
When having a xml document that was last changed with FM8 and opening/ saving this with FM9, there is no error.
At the moment I do not know how to solve this issue.
And also I'm not sure weather the same problem might accour again with change from FM9 to FM10 or else.
It is a great effort to make new cross references just because we upgraded from FM8 to FM9. (And of course always at most inconvienent time.)
As we are thinking of upgrading to FM10, it would be good to know before, if there are any similar issues to expect.
Or if there is an fix for FM9 or FM10 to avoid this at all.
Regards,
Anna -
Cross Reference Sources appearing in Story Editor view but not appearing in the Cross Ref pane
I have imported a Word document containing working cross references into an InDesign document. The vast majority of these cross references import correctly and link to their destinations within the document, however there are some that are not working. If I view the text frame in the story editor view, I can see these "broken" cross reference sources that came in from the Word doc but on selecting them I can see that there isnt a corresponding entry for it in the cross reference pane. As said, there are only a few that are behaving like this.
What could be causing these not to appear in the cross reference pane?
Obviously as they are not appearing in the list of cross references I can't update them, and also, as they are technically broken cross references, because a source exists for them but there is no corresponding entry in the pane, then on export to epub, InDesign crashes (If there is one broken cross reference in a document, export to Epub will crash indesign).
Also, to clarify, in the Word doc if I navigate to a cross reference that is failing once in InDesign, I can update it properly, and also navigate to its destination in the Word doc, so it's not as though these cross references are broken before coming into InDesign. Also I believe the destinations for these "broken" cross references are coming across properly to indesign too as I can see them in the story editor view.
Supposed Cross Reference source selected in Story Editor view on left, but no corresponding cross reference highlighted in pane on right:
Technical Details:
InDesign CS5.5 - Version 7.5.3
Microsoft Word 2010, File type .docxI have found the possible cause of this problem!
If a table is used within the Word document somewhere between where the cross reference source is and its destination then that particular cross reference will be broken as described above in my initial post.
So the "fix" is to remove any occurances of a table in the Word document and the cross references come into InDesign perfectly. This is actually not a fix at all. I need to use tables in the Word document for layout purposes so if they break cross references if they stand between them and their destinations then I have to compromise, i.e. use tables but with no cross references in the document or vice versa.
I found a similar issue recently with index markers in Word causing a shift on the cross reference tags when bought into InDesign. The "fix" again for that was to remove all index markers from the Word document. See post about this here: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1043981
InDesign really needs to sort out the issues with importing of Word documents with cross references in them. If I can't use index markers and tables in a Word document without breaking its cross references then they can't claim to have the ability to import a Word document while maintaining its cross references into an InDesign document. It just doesnt work as ive painstakingly proven. -
Cross reference text anchor source in Word doc
I'm trying to figure out a way to automatically generate page numbers for a list of courses at the back of a course catalog. The listing is not arranged alphabetically or in the order the courses appear in the catalog, and (right now) the listing is a table. Because of this, I don't think a TOC or Index would work.
Cross references seem to work, but they're just as much work as turning pages, finding each entry, and typing it into the list. What I'd really like is to be able to use cross-references to text anchors, but have the anchors inserted in Word, before it goes into Indesign. Many of the courses repeat from one catalog to the next. The editor who creates the Word file does so by pasting each course with its description into one big Word file. If the text anchor were in each course to begin with, it would end up in Indesign and I would only have to reference it to generate a page number.
It seems that Word's Bookmarks come into Indesign as text anchors, but not with their original names. The first bookmark, regardless of its name in Word, comes in named "Anchor". The next one comes in named "Anchor 5" or something like that. I want them to come in with course numbers or some other unique identifier. "Anchor 5" doesn't really tell me anything.
Any ideas?
Ken BensonKenneth Benson wrote:
I'm trying to figure out a way to automatically generate page numbers for a list of courses at the back of a course catalog. The listing is not arranged alphabetically or in the order the courses appear in the catalog, and (right now) the listing is a table. Because of this, I don't think a TOC or Index would work.
Cross references seem to work, but they're just as much work as turning pages, finding each entry, and typing it into the list. What I'd really like is to be able to use cross-references to text anchors, but have the anchors inserted in Word, before it goes into Indesign. Many of the courses repeat from one catalog to the next. The editor who creates the Word file does so by pasting each course with its description into one big Word file. If the text anchor were in each course to begin with, it would end up in Indesign and I would only have to reference it to generate a page number.
It seems that Word's Bookmarks come into Indesign as text anchors, but not with their original names. The first bookmark, regardless of its name in Word, comes in named "Anchor". The next one comes in named "Anchor 5" or something like that. I want them to come in with course numbers or some other unique identifier. "Anchor 5" doesn't really tell me anything.
Any ideas?
Ken Benson
Hi, Ken:
IIRC, Word's cross-references are preserved in InDesign. Have you tried it?
HTH
Regards,
Peter
Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices -
Can I change a cross reference display without having to recreate it?
WHen cross references are to figures on the same page, I let the cross reference point to the paragraph number only ("see View 25"). When it is on another page, I use paragraph number and page ("See View 25 on page 34"). But when my text changes, sometimes text moves, sometimes images move and I need to change the cross reference. It is quite bothersome, I have to rmeove the old one and create a new one, hunting for the cross reference in a list of 150 or so.
Is there a simpler way? E.g. put the insertion point in the cross reference and than some easy way to select a different appearance?Thanks for stepping in, Jan. I'm glad the smart page-reference building blocks in Cross-References Pro can actually do what I hoped it could, to solve this riddle for the original poster. I did a quick test, just to be sure it worked as I expected, and it does! It would be great for Adobe to license your technology and build this into InDesign, along with the rest of the extra-strength cross-reference abilities. (Disclaimer: I'm not connected to DTP Tools other than being a happy user.)
As to the unwanted space, perhaps a character style in nested and/or GREP style could apply some kind of width adjustment that would reduce the displacement to an absolute minimum.
Regards,
Peter
Peter Gold
Jan Macuch wrote:
Hi, sorry for being a little late on this one. Here's a sample of the Cross-Reference PRO format you're looking for is:
See Figure <paranum/> <pagenum usesectionname="true" forcearabic="true" usepage="true" pagetext="on page #" usethis="true" thistext=" " usenext="true" nexttext="on the next page" useprev="true" prevtext="on the previous page" useopposite="true" oppositetext="on the opposite page"/>
The trick is that you include the words "on" and "on the" in the page wording definitions, but insert just emptu space for the This Page setting. There's a glitch that you end up with an extra space after the reference, but you can replace the normal space by a hair space (code ^| ) which makes it quite tolerable.
Jan Macuch
DTP Tools -
Cross references corrupted after placing Word document into an InDesign document
I am placing a word document which contains cross references to headers and captions/figures within the document. They seem to be fine and function correctly in the Word document, however, after I place this word doc into my InDesign doc, I take a look at the cross references panel and notice that the cross references have been corrupted. It is wrapping the wrong portions of text from the cross reference destinations. See screenshot for a visual of how the cross references are malformed. For example the 7th cross reference in the list should say Framework Details, not "Framework Detai
InDesign Cross References Panel - showing malformed bits of text
Another visual of this issue can be seen if I view the text frame in Story Editor view, see below. You can see that the cross reference source tags (blue arrow like symbols) are wrapped around the wrong portions of text. The blue tags shoud be wrapped around Framework Details and 52
InDesign Story Editor
You can see below as to why I think the cross references are fine in the Word doc, you can see the same cross reference I used in the example above in the word doc and it is wrapping the correct portion of text:
Word - showing cross reference is formed corerctly
Why is this not being maintained after placing this file into InDesign?
Also I am not performing any cross reference updates after I import, this problem occurs immediately after the place of the doc.
Why would InDesign be having difficulty in importing these cross references? I have set up a simple test Word document with cross references to headers and figures in and they have imported fine. What could be wrong with this other particular word doc that would be causing this "corruption" of cross references? This is not only causing my cross references to break visually and lack the update capability but also I cannot export the InDesign doc to an ePub as it keeps crashing. I believe from my reading on the web that if there is only one broken cross reference source i.e. the cross reference destination that it is trying to link to is missing, then the export to epub will fail. So this is causing a massive headache for me at the minute.
Is there anything I could be looking at in the Word doc to try and figure out why the porblem is occuring in the first place?
If anyone has any tips or a possible solution to this I would really appreciate it. Even better if someone knows the reason why this is happening I can tackle it from the source and prevent it happening time and time again.
Thanks, DaveOnly bad experiences, Peter ...
I've seen this character shifting before on numerous occasions, both with cross references and with hyperlinks. (It's especially funny with hyperlinks, 'cause you can see that the outline box shifts one character at a time per each next link...)
The thing is it's not just limited to hyperlinks and cross refs. Dave's screenshot doesn't show bold, italics, or other local formatting, but it's a fair bet these are off by a couple of characters as well.
Dave's experiment of making a "minimal" Word document to confirm it's a persistent bug didn't work. I found the same thing: either a document comes in fine, or everything is foo-bar right from the start. There must be some internal Word code that InDesign forgets to count as 'a character position'. Without delving into the Word file with some very advanced tools, it's anyone's guess what code that would be.
I can only offer the one solution that works for me: in Word, remove all hyperlinks (which is what Word uses for internal links as well as for external ones) and convert all cross-references to text. Then, if the file finally imports fine, re-build them in InDesign. It's a cumbersome workaround, but slightly better (only just) than checking each reference, delete, rebuild, check next -- etc. (And with that the chance that your other text attributes are also off.) -
Cross references in structured documents
Hi there,
Perhaps someone of you has a tip for me regarding cross references in structured FrameMaker.
The problem we have at the moment:
We were working with FM8 structured. But - as we worked with FM documents most of the times - very often the xml files are not on the latest version.
When we now want to update these documents with FM9 and save them as xml documents, there are lot's of errors that the attribute type is not defined for the element fm-xref.
Perhaps some of you know this error message.
At the moment we do exchange all those cross reference for new ones.
Of course, when we have a xml document which contains the latest status, this is not a problem.
You just open the xml file and save it as FM9 document. No problem with any cross reference...
But what can I do with those FM8 documents?
Would it help to use some application just for fixong the cross references in those (if possible)?
This definitly seems to be an error in FM itself.
Is there perhaps some fix for FM9 I don't know about?
And how about FM10: Will I have the same problems, if we switch to that version?
Regards,
AnnaHi Van,
I fear, I expressed myself not very clear. I try again.
We have DITA structured documents. However, lastest status often was saved in the FM document. The xml documents often are not representing the final status.
When I open the FM8 document in FM9 everything looks pretty good.
But: When I want to save the document as xml with FM9, I'm getting errors regarding the cross references.
The cross references which were created in FM8 - doesn't matter, if a valid xml document or a FM document - always look the same.
(BTW: I don't think that in structured documents cross references always refer to elemts with a unique ID.)
example from xml which was created with FM8:
<xref href = "#id08B4A0R30E9" type = "fm:Chapter">"..."</xref>
the only difference in the FM document is that the element is called fm-xref there, as it's not an external url.
in FM9 those cross references are totally different.
example from xml which was created in FM9:
<xref href = "#id08B4A0R30E9" class = "- topic/xref">"..."</xref>
When saving the FM documents with the cross references from the first example as xml in FM9 (we don't have FM8 anymore), I get an error that the attribute type is not defined.
When having a xml document that was last changed with FM8 and opening/ saving this with FM9, there is no error.
At the moment I do not know how to solve this issue.
And also I'm not sure weather the same problem might accour again with change from FM9 to FM10 or else.
It is a great effort to make new cross references just because we upgraded from FM8 to FM9. (And of course always at most inconvienent time.)
As we are thinking of upgrading to FM10, it would be good to know before, if there are any similar issues to expect.
Or if there is an fix for FM9 or FM10 to avoid this at all.
Regards,
Anna -
Broken bookmark cross references in Printed Documentation
Hi,
I'am using RH 10 to generate a printed documentation output. What i notice is that the book marked cross references are broken in the Printed Documentation output. Other cross references are linking fine, but, the bookmarked cross references do not link to their destination.
I generated a chm file for the project and the bookmarked cross references appear fine there. Is there anything that could be tried to rectify this problem.
Please note that i'am using HTML files as the source files to convert to a Word output.
Thanks,
RupeshThere's no easy way to do this. RH doesn't include any
sequence that will convert to a cross-reference in Word, and
inserting multiple cross-references in Word isn't as easy as
executing a find-and-replace command. The best workaround I've
found so far is this:
1. In your RH doc, include a reference that is easily
distinguished from other text. For example, "For information on
Project Beta, see page BETA."
2. Generate the Word document.
3. Find the first instance of "BETA."
4. Insert a cross-reference to the page number of the Beta
heading.
5. Toggle the field code.
6. Copy the field.
7. Find the next instance of your special text ("BETA" in
this example).
8. Paste the field reference.
9. Repeat this process until you're finished.
Unfortunately, the field code references change each time you
generate the document. Equally unfortunately, Word won't recognize
regular braces and text as a field code reference - you have to use
the Ctrl+F9 sequence to generate them manually. So you can't just
generate the document, insert the first cross-reference, and then
replace "BETA" with {PAGEREF _Ref### \h} across your entire
document - it won't work. Instead, you must visit each reference
and paste the field code sequence manually.
If someone else can improve on this process, I'm sure a lot
of people would be happy. If not, it's the easiest workaround I've
seen here, so you might find it useful. -
I've seen cross reference questions, but none dealing with ID CC, which, I believe is 64-bit.
We've greatly expanded our use of cross-references with this new more power version with overall good success. However, ID still seems to insist on updating every cross-reference with every keystroke. What a pain.
I work with all book documents open to minimize this, but since it's across a network, it can still be pretty painful. In addition, some documents are used in multiple books so I use layers to control which cross-references are active any any given time.
It's getting very trying. Does anyone have experience with using 3rd party xref management software with ID CC?Hi Van,
I fear, I expressed myself not very clear. I try again.
We have DITA structured documents. However, lastest status often was saved in the FM document. The xml documents often are not representing the final status.
When I open the FM8 document in FM9 everything looks pretty good.
But: When I want to save the document as xml with FM9, I'm getting errors regarding the cross references.
The cross references which were created in FM8 - doesn't matter, if a valid xml document or a FM document - always look the same.
(BTW: I don't think that in structured documents cross references always refer to elemts with a unique ID.)
example from xml which was created with FM8:
<xref href = "#id08B4A0R30E9" type = "fm:Chapter">"..."</xref>
the only difference in the FM document is that the element is called fm-xref there, as it's not an external url.
in FM9 those cross references are totally different.
example from xml which was created in FM9:
<xref href = "#id08B4A0R30E9" class = "- topic/xref">"..."</xref>
When saving the FM documents with the cross references from the first example as xml in FM9 (we don't have FM8 anymore), I get an error that the attribute type is not defined.
When having a xml document that was last changed with FM8 and opening/ saving this with FM9, there is no error.
At the moment I do not know how to solve this issue.
And also I'm not sure weather the same problem might accour again with change from FM9 to FM10 or else.
It is a great effort to make new cross references just because we upgraded from FM8 to FM9. (And of course always at most inconvienent time.)
As we are thinking of upgrading to FM10, it would be good to know before, if there are any similar issues to expect.
Or if there is an fix for FM9 or FM10 to avoid this at all.
Regards,
Anna -
I currently have a help project which includes popup help
topics for a large number of fields in a software suite. They are
formatted as follows:
Field Name
Field Description
I also have a number of help topics that act as summaries for
sections of the software. They include field listings (using
tables) that are formatted as follows:
|
Field Name | Field Description |
|
Field Name | Field Description |
|
Field Name | Field Description |
Each field can be referenced in several different summary
pages.
Periodically, I have to update many of the field
descriptions. Is there a way for me to automatically fill in the
field descriptions in the tables, in HTML help, so that they
automatically update when I modify the descriptions in the popup
topics? The current project is in WinHelp - I am using bookmarks
and cross-references in Word to achieve this, but we're switching
over to HTML help and I haven't been able to find a way to do it
there.
Any ideas?
- BrianHi Van,
I fear, I expressed myself not very clear. I try again.
We have DITA structured documents. However, lastest status often was saved in the FM document. The xml documents often are not representing the final status.
When I open the FM8 document in FM9 everything looks pretty good.
But: When I want to save the document as xml with FM9, I'm getting errors regarding the cross references.
The cross references which were created in FM8 - doesn't matter, if a valid xml document or a FM document - always look the same.
(BTW: I don't think that in structured documents cross references always refer to elemts with a unique ID.)
example from xml which was created with FM8:
<xref href = "#id08B4A0R30E9" type = "fm:Chapter">"..."</xref>
the only difference in the FM document is that the element is called fm-xref there, as it's not an external url.
in FM9 those cross references are totally different.
example from xml which was created in FM9:
<xref href = "#id08B4A0R30E9" class = "- topic/xref">"..."</xref>
When saving the FM documents with the cross references from the first example as xml in FM9 (we don't have FM8 anymore), I get an error that the attribute type is not defined.
When having a xml document that was last changed with FM8 and opening/ saving this with FM9, there is no error.
At the moment I do not know how to solve this issue.
And also I'm not sure weather the same problem might accour again with change from FM9 to FM10 or else.
It is a great effort to make new cross references just because we upgraded from FM8 to FM9. (And of course always at most inconvienent time.)
As we are thinking of upgrading to FM10, it would be good to know before, if there are any similar issues to expect.
Or if there is an fix for FM9 or FM10 to avoid this at all.
Regards,
Anna -
Frame Maker 9 Cross References Question
Howdy,
I got two documents the original and a translated version of it. The original has a bunch of working cross references and it's all fine and dandy. The translated one on the other has a bunch of broken cross-references, chapter headers, headers in general and what not. Almost all of the "code" broke when the translator did it.
Either way, that's easy enough to fix it, I can just copy the working code from the original and paste into the translated document and it will generaelly fix the error.
Now for the question - Since my translated document is a couple of pages longer than the original due to the translation can I still copy of the cross references from the first document over, and it will be all fine and dandy?
Basically I didn't write either docuements I'm just fixing formatting and other errors, and I'm not entirely 100% how Frame Maker does it cross references are they based on a page number/paragraph parameters, or something like under X subheading go here and that's how it links.
TL;DR How do Cross refernces work in FM9? And if I have a translated doc longer than my original, can those same Cross references work in both docs?
Thanks much for any help/insight.
Dean,Almost all of the "code" broke when the translator did it.
They probably deleted the Cross-Ref Markers when over-typing the text. If Text Symbols were off during edit, that's pretty easy to do.
... and I'm not entirely 100% how Frame Maker does it cross references are they based on a page number/paragraph parameters, or something like under X subheading go here and that's how it links.
Unless you are Xref'ing a hand-created Marker, Frame auto-creates a Marker, of type "Cross-Ref" at the start of the target paragraph. It also auto creates an Mtext tag, which contains what appears to be a unique number string, the Paragraph Format name and the paragraph text (including any auto number). There is also a <Unique> tag with another unique number string.
When resolving references, my impression is that Frame first searches for the <Unique> number, and if not found, then for the Mtext string, and then possibly for the Mtext string without the leading number string.
If the translators do two things, I would expect the Xrefs to port:
Don't disturb Xref Markers. This can be tough, because it's sometimes hard to select text and not nab leading Markers, and because all Marker symbols look alike, and the Index markers do need to be messed with.
Don't translate text defined by Markers. That text will auto-translate from the source text at Update. -
Cross-reference tag errors in Trados preventing MIF creation
Our Spanish translator provides files from translation memory with unresolved cross-reference text in English; when we update the book the cross-references are translated to Spanish and the page numbers are also updated within the cross-reference text. After our DTP process, when we return the files to the translator to update the translation memory, he gets a misalignment in the tags and Trados prevents him from creating a MIF file. Trados won't let him ignore the cross-references. We're using unstructured FrameMaker 2009 and he has Trados 2007. We're in the midst of a deadline for a project due next week and he wants to charge us an enormous fee to fix the tags manually. Can anyone suggest a solution the translator can use? I'm a newbie forum user, but I checked the FAQ and did not see anything. Thanks! Sue
As far as I know, FM cross-references (which came into Trados via MIF and S-Tagger) are handled as placeables. I suppose the mismatches stem from a "placeables differences penalty", which by default is 2%, even for otherwise exact matches.
A possible solution could be to impose no penalties for placeables in Trados, i.e. set the placeables differences penalty to 0%. But be careful, this may overshoot the mark, as there might be relevant differences in placeables that must be reviewed. I'm not aware of a setting in Trados where you could specify this more selectively.
Johannes -
Existing cross Reference: how to change the name of the file it refers to?
Hi everybody,
I am a professional translator.
One client of mine sent me a complete FrameMaker 9 book file for translation.
I translated the content via a CAT-Tool and now am in the process of checking if cross references and markers are ok directly into the file.
I noticed that many cross references are linked to another file of the book. But in the process of translating each file separately, I gave them a slightly different name (I added the language at the end) so as to be able to recognise them eventually.
Now I have this problem: I cannot find in the cross reference interface where to change the name of the file into the new one the cross reference is supposed to refer to.
Am I right in wanting to change the file reference? If so, how do I do that?
Or is it better to avoid this task and rename the translated file into their original names ? Would it work then?
Thanks for your help.... book file ...
... each file separately, I gave them a slightly different name (I added the language at the end) ...
I'm guessing that you renamed the component files by means other than using the Edit > Rename File from the Book menu.
If so, do over. Rename from the Book menu. It automatically revises all the cross-references in all the component files.
In a Book, the only thing that's safe to rename with the file manager is the .book file itself. -
Problem deleting cross-references: Deleted cross-references do not convert to correct text
This helpful page states that, "When you delete a cross-reference, the source cross-reference is converted to text."
I use InDesign to create user's manuals, which are full of cross-referenced page numbers.
The cross-references are all internal to a single document, they do not link to other documents. Each cross-reference is linked to paragraph text and the cross-reference format is Page Number.
I find that whenever I delete a cross-reference, the cross-reference does convert to text; however, the text—which in this case is a page number—is wrong.
For example, this sentence is on page 16:
"You can measure your heart rate using either the handgrip heart rate monitor or an optional chest heart rate monitor (see page 21 for information about the optional chest heart rate monitor.)"
Screenshot:
However, when I delete the cross reference, the sentence now reads:
"You can measure your heart rate using either the handgrip heart rate monitor or an optional chest heart rate monitor (see page 16 for information about the optional chest heart rate monitor.)"
Screenshot:
Now, to my mind, the cross-reference should have converted to the text "21," since that is what the cross-reference said (and it is the correct page number for the optional heart rate monitor text that is being referred to).
Instead, the cross-reference converted to the text "16," which is the number of the page that the sentence is actually on, but is most definitely not what the cross-reference said and is not the correct page number to boot.
Do any of you know the reason this happens?
Is there a way to make the text convert to the correct page number when the cross-reference is deleted?Update: The cross references work when I export the book as Print PDF. Sadly this solution does not work in my case, because all my interactive element are disabled when exporting as Print PDF.
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