Cross references in structured documents

Hi there,
Perhaps someone of you has a tip for me regarding cross references in structured FrameMaker.
The problem we have at the moment:
We were working with FM8 structured. But - as we worked with FM documents most of the times - very often the xml files are not on the latest version.
When we now want to update these documents with FM9 and save them as xml documents, there are lot's of errors that the attribute type is not defined for the element fm-xref.
Perhaps some of you know this error message.
At the moment we do exchange all those cross reference for new ones.
Of course, when we have a xml document which contains the latest status, this is not a problem.
You just open the xml file and save it as FM9 document. No problem with any cross reference...
But what can I do with those FM8 documents?
Would it help to use some application just for fixong the cross references in those (if possible)?
This definitly seems to be an error in FM itself.
Is there perhaps some fix for FM9 I don't know about?
And how about FM10: Will I have the same problems, if we switch to that version?
Regards,
Anna

Hi Van,
I fear, I expressed myself not very clear. I try again.
We have DITA structured documents. However, lastest status often was saved in the FM document. The xml documents often are not representing the final status.
When I open the FM8 document in FM9 everything looks pretty good.
But: When I want to save the document as xml with FM9, I'm getting errors regarding the cross references.
The cross references which were created in FM8 - doesn't matter, if a valid xml document or a FM document - always look the same.
(BTW: I don't think that in structured documents cross references always refer to elemts with a unique ID.)
example from xml which was created with FM8:
<xref href = "#id08B4A0R30E9" type = "fm:Chapter">"..."</xref>
the only difference in the FM document is that the element is called fm-xref there, as it's not an external url.
in FM9 those cross references are totally different.
example from xml which was created in FM9:
<xref href = "#id08B4A0R30E9" class = "- topic/xref">"..."</xref>
When saving the FM documents with the cross references from the first example as xml in FM9 (we don't have FM8 anymore), I get an error that the attribute type is not defined.
When having a xml document that was last changed with FM8 and opening/ saving this with FM9, there is no error.
At the moment I do not know how to solve this issue.
And also I'm not sure weather the same problem might accour again with change from FM9 to FM10 or else.
It is a great effort to make new cross references just because we upgraded from FM8 to FM9. (And of course always at most inconvienent time.)
As we are thinking of upgrading to FM10, it would be good to know before, if there are any similar issues to expect.
Or if there is an fix for FM9 or FM10 to avoid this at all.
Regards,
Anna

Similar Messages

Cross-reference between structured and unstructured FM documents

Hello,
Is it possible to retain FM cross-references from structured to unstructured FM documents during an XML round trip?
From what I know, cross-references between or inside structured documents form pairs of ID and IDREF, while cross-references to unstructured documents are dumped as normal text and lose their functionality.
The unstructured target documents might be converted to Structured FM at some point, but for the time being I'd like to find another solution. Do you know any solution to this?
Thanks,
Johannes

Johannes,
This is just a guess, because I do not do this.
First, of course, you cannot export the unstructured file to XML, because it is unstructured.
Second, IF the cross-reference from the structured file to the unstructured file were done via your cross-reference ELEMENT, then the cross-reference element should export to XML as an XML element with one of its IDref attribute set to the ID of something in the unstructured file. When you open the XML file in FrameMaker, the cross-reference is re-established.
In other words, when exporting to XML, FrameMaker does not care to what you are referencing. It just converts the cross-reference element into an element with an attribute in the XML file. So, it should work as expected when opened in FrameMaker. Of course, I am assuming your read-write file is set up to handle cross-references.
On the other hand, IF you are creating your cross-reference from the structured file by simply inserting a cross-reference, that is NOT as an element, then I do not know what happens. If it is being exported as text, then I am not sure FrameMaker will know what to do with it when you reopen the XML file.
Hope this helps,
Van

Relinking Cross-References after Renaming Documents

I have a problem where I have created a book containing 14 chapters. Each chapter has a reference to the language of the book i.e. GB in the document title, we now want to translate the documents, so have copied the book, and chapters, renamed the document with an FR in the document titles, ready to send of to the translators.
The trouble is all the cross references are still linking to the GB book. Is there a way of re-linking all the cross references to the FR documents? Or is it a case of going to each cross-reference and re-linking to the same piece of text but in the FR book.
Can anyone help?

tRawc wrote:
I have a problem where I have created a book containing 14 chapters. Each chapter has a reference to the language of the book i.e. GB in the document title, we now want to translate the documents, so have copied the book, and chapters, renamed the document with an FR in the document titles, ready to send of to the translators.
The trouble is all the cross references are still linking to the GB book. Is there a way of re-linking all the cross references to the FR documents? Or is it a case of going to each cross-reference and re-linking to the same piece of text but in the FR book.
Can anyone help?
No help here, at least no help in providing some magic. Cross-file cross-references seem to depend on the name of the file that contains the cross-reference "destination" - the text that's captured and displayed at the "source" - the location where the cross-reference is inserted. I'm using quotation marks here because some folks think of the stuff you capture as the cross-reference source, and what's displayed at the cross-reference insertion point is the destination in their view. IOW, they're opposite uses of the term. InDesign's nomenclature is based on the hyperlink model, where you create a destination somewhere and you act on it by pointing to that destination from where you insert the link to it, AKA the source of the action. At least that's my guess.
So, changing file names loses the connection.
Internal cross-references - within a single document file - are maintained when the file's name is changed.
You can relink cross-file cross-references for files that are moved to a new folder. In the Cross-References panel, select a "missing" cross-reference that displays a question mark in a red circle, then from the panel's fly-out menu, choose Relink Cross-Reference, and browse the directory. If all the cross-file cross-references in the file whose cross-references point to files in one directory, relinking should restore all the links. If some cross-references point to files moved to other directories, you'll need to browse to each of those directories.
With a book, if all the missing cross-file cross-references for all the book's component files were all moved to the same folder, relinking one missing reference should relink all. If some missing cross-references point to files moved elsewhere, you'll need to browse for each of those directories.
HTH
Regards,
Peter
Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices

Cross-References to other documents

As Cross-refences within a document act as clickable links to their destinations when exported to PDF, can cross references to content of another Indesign documents act as clickable links to the destination after being exported. I think no, but I want to double check.

I actually tried this already, it still crashes and the error is reproducible on four different computers here: 1 Mac and 3 Windows machines. I didn't even restore my old preferences, I just did the reset and it still has the issue. Note it's not crashing when I use data merge, simply when I try to view the panel.
The only thing that differentiates this document from the other ones I've had issues with that I got my work-around to fix is that the cross-references point to other documents (where the other ones I've managed to fix have cross-references within the same document).
For the sake of my sanity I may just convert the (2) cross-references to text if they are in fact the issue.

Cross-references in a different document

We have used FrameMaker for years (currently Version 7.1). We are in the process of switching to InDesign (CS5).
One current project is a print catalog where I put each section in a different document. One of the sections is a list of book titles. Another section is an index of authors and books by each author, with a page number cross-referencing each title with its entry in the title section.
In FrameMaker, when I open the author document, I can update all the references at once by pointing to the title document.
I don't see an easy way to do this in InDesign. Is it possible to update all cross-references at once?
Furthermore, in researching the problem on the Internet, I came across multiple comments that suggested that it's not a good idea to use cross-references across multiple documents in InDesign. Is this true, or was it only a problem in previous versions of InDesign?
Thanks for the help!

I think you should head over to the scripting forum and ask over there. Dave Saunders has just finished a huge project with thousnads of cross-refs to external docs and he might have some scripting ideas that would help you.

Cross-reference failure when converted to PDF

One of my clients uses FrameMaker 7.1 to author their product documents, and convert everything to PDF before releasing it. I often see problems where cross-references within the document work in FrameMaker, but do not work as links in PDF, even though they show as links and the cursor in Acrobat changes correctly as it should when pointing to a link. I have now encountered a FrameMaker file where the cross-references worked as links in the first revision of a PDF, but a random selection of them didn't in the next revision, even though no changes were made to any cross-references in the original FM file. It's not an issue with my PC or that of the person who generated the files - we have tried the conversion on multiple installations and they all produce the same result. To fix it we've had to locate each failed link in the PDF and put it right manually in the FM source file. Has anyone else encountered this? Any thoughts on the cause?

DxCooper (not your real name, I guess),
The rigid approach is to check in the PDF Setup dialog, last tab "Links", whether the option "Create Named Destinations for All Elements and Paragraphs" is selected. This helps but the size of the PDF may increase considerably.
Another thing which may help, especially (but not limited to) if the documents originally were authored in previous versions of FrameMaker, is the use of what is described in the prose of the above mentioned dialog: Optimize the PDF size by running the described routines once for every file. As far as I remember you can select a book file for that feature.
HTH,
- Michael (who feels better, if he can write to people with a name)

Cross Reference an Object??

How do I cross reference an object using Indesign CS4?
I've got a PDF that I've dropped into a frame, which I applied an Object Style. Now I need to create a cross references in the document, that point to the PDF (a chart). I've got to do this with several PDF's.
When I go to create a cross reference, I can only apply it a Paragraph Style or a Text Anchor, I don't get an Object Style to choose from.
I could put some text in behind the chart, and arrage the chart to the front, but i'd rather create a cross reference to the Object itself.
What do i do?

sammy003 wrote:
How do I cross reference an object using Indesign CS4?
I've got a PDF that I've dropped into a frame, which I applied an Object Style. Now I need to create a cross references in the document, that point to the PDF (a chart). I've got to do this with several PDF's.
When I go to create a cross reference, I can only apply it a Paragraph Style or a Text Anchor, I don't get an Object Style to choose from.
I could put some text in behind the chart, and arrage the chart to the front, but i'd rather create a cross reference to the Object itself.
What do i do?
Cross-references only point to text - either a text anchor or a paragraph - not to objects.
If your placed PDF is in an anchored frame, you can point the cross-reference to the paragraph in which the frame is anchored.
If your placed PDF is not in an anchored frame, you can do what you suggest above, or you have these other options:
* place the PDF into a text frame
* create a text frame and group it with the PDF; point the cross-reference to the paragraph in the text frame, or insert a text anchor in the text and point the cross-reference to it.
* you can paste the grouped PDF and text frame object into a text frame to make it an anchored frame.
The idea of a cross-reference is usually to point to a caption or heading. You can't point to the text in a placed PDF because it's really a graphic. You'll probably want a caption to identify the chart. The caption is the text you cross-reference to. The caption can be in the paragraph that holds the anchor, in a text frame grouped with the graphic, in a paragraph above or below the graphic, or in an anchored frame that's positioned near the graphic.
If your layout will not reflow, you probably don't need an anchored frame, but if the layout will reflow, you'll want to use the ability of an anchored to move with the text.
Read about cross-references and anchored frames in Help. If your caption will be numbered, such as "Figure 3," also read about numbered lists and numbering properties of paragraph styles.
HTH
Regards,
Peter
Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices

Cross reference or hyperlinking not working for InDesign CS5 Book to ePub

I cannot get hyperlinks or cross reference links to work when generating an ePub from InDesign CS5. (7.0.0.355, Mac OS 10.6.2)
Here's how to recreate a simple test demonstrating the issue.
1. Create a new InDesign Book (File -> New -> Book)
2. Create document one (File -> New -> Document)
3. Create a text box and type "Table of Contents"
4. Create document two (File -> New -> Document)
5. Create a text box in it and type "Story One"
6. Create a new paragraph style and assign it to the Story One text
7. Save document 2. I just kept the name Untitled-2.xhtml
8. Back in document 1, add a cross-reference and select document 2, the style you created, and then "Story One". "Story One" should now appear under the previously typed Table of Contents text, and when highlighed, should show it is an active cross reference in the Hyperlinks panel.
9. Save document 1. I just kept the name Untitled-1.xhtml
10. Add both documents to the Book and save the book.
11. From the Book panel, select Export Book to EPUB...
12. Save the epub file and open it in Adobe Digital Editions.
Note that the text "Story One" appears as a hyperlink but when clicked does not switch to the document 2. It does nothing apparent when clicked.
Looking at the XHTML source for the first document, it is immediately evident why. The filename for document 2.thml is missing. It looks like this: <a href="#anchor-anchor">
When it should be : <a href="Untitled-2.xhtml#anchor-anchor">
The same thing works if you create a hyperlink instead of a cross reference.
I note then when I use the option to go to the destinate reference in the Cross Link (hyperlink) panel, it does switch to the second InDesign docuemtn. So the cross reference is functioning (in InDesign). But the link is broken in the ePub for the above mentioned reason.
Bug? Something I'm overlooking?
Entire source of Untitled-1.xhtml:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/DTD/xhtml11.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
<head>
<title>Untitled-1.xhtml</title>
<link href="template.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" />
</head>
<body>
<div id="untitled-1">
<div class="generated-style">
Table of Contents
<a href="#anchor-anchor">‚Äústory one‚Äù</a>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

As far as I can tell, it has NOT yet been fixed in CS5.5. I'm having the same problem. I have about 90 hyperlinks to fix.
And the explanation that Teus Dejong gives indicates it's not going to be that helpful: "we have found that only the links in documents split by the CS5 exporter will be fixed. For books the script does only work for references to earlier documents in the book, not for forward references. This means in practice that for most books the script will not repair the links and should be seen as a means to add the year only. At the moment I see no way to repair this, because the book epub output of InDesign does not contain sufficient information to repair links referencing forward to others documents in a book."
It's pretty discouraging.

Cross Reference Sources appearing in Story Editor view but not appearing in the Cross Ref pane

I have imported a Word document containing working cross references into an InDesign document. The vast majority of these cross references import correctly and link to their destinations within the document, however there are some that are not working. If I view the text frame in the story editor view, I can see these "broken" cross reference sources that came in from the Word doc but on selecting them I can see that there isnt a corresponding entry for it in the cross reference pane. As said, there are only a few that are behaving like this.
What could be causing these not to appear in the cross reference pane?
Obviously as they are not appearing in the list of cross references I can't update them, and also, as they are technically broken cross references, because a source exists for them but there is no corresponding entry in the pane, then on export to epub, InDesign crashes (If there is one broken cross reference in a document, export to Epub will crash indesign).
Also, to clarify, in the Word doc if I navigate to a cross reference that is failing once in InDesign, I can update it properly, and also navigate to its destination in the Word doc, so it's not as though these cross references are broken before coming into InDesign. Also I believe the destinations for these "broken" cross references are coming across properly to indesign too as I can see them in the story editor view.
Supposed Cross Reference source selected in Story Editor view on left, but no corresponding cross reference highlighted in pane on right:
Technical Details:
InDesign CS5.5 - Version 7.5.3
Microsoft Word 2010, File type .docx

I have found the possible cause of this problem!
If a table is used within the Word document somewhere between where the cross reference source is and its destination then that particular cross reference will be broken as described above in my initial post.
So the "fix" is to remove any occurances of a table in the Word document and the cross references come into InDesign perfectly. This is actually not a fix at all. I need to use tables in the Word document for layout purposes so if they break cross references if they stand between them and their destinations then I have to compromise, i.e. use tables but with no cross references in the document or vice versa.
I found a similar issue recently with index markers in Word causing a shift on the cross reference tags when bought into InDesign. The "fix" again for that was to remove all index markers from the Word document. See post about this here: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1043981
InDesign really needs to sort out the issues with importing of Word documents with cross references in them. If I can't use index markers and tables in a Word document without breaking its cross references then they can't claim to have the ability to import a Word document while maintaining its cross references into an InDesign document. It just doesnt work as ive painstakingly proven.

Cross reference options

Hi there.
I got a problem with my cross references and I was hoping to get the answer here.
My problem is:
When I'm adding a cross reference in my document and want to include the full paragraph and page number, it says "paragraph name on page XX" Most of my documents are in Norwegian, so I wonder if there is a way to chanage the language or the phrases ("on page" in this example) that are auto generated by indesign to something in my language?
Thanks for any help
Rune

You can create your own cross-reference formatting.
From the Hyperlinks panel menu, choose Define Cross-Reference Formatting.
Select the format on the left you want to redefine. Click the + sign which will duplicate the style and call it [Stylename]1. You can rename that. Now use Definition box below to refine the format name in Norwegian. Click OK.
Now change your cross-reference to use this new format.

[AS] How to make cross reference at insertion point

Hi,
I have a book ("indb") including several documents with several "anchors"
(german translation: "Textanker") where cross references from different documents are linked to.
What I already got is to reference all anchors and collect them in a list.
Now I would like to make a new cross reference at the insertion point
in a text frame of the active document - can't get it to run :-(
Is anybody out there who can post a AS-sample doing this?
Thanks in advance!
Here is the reference to an already existing anchor:
{hyperlink text destination id 44155 of document "kapitel 2.indd" of application "Adobe InDesign CS4"}
The code I tried to make a new cross reference looks like this - but of course doesn't work:
tell application "Adobe InDesign CS4"
tell active document
make new hyperlink with properties {name:"new hyperlink", destination:hyperlink text destination id 44155 of document "kapitel 2.indd"}
end tell
end tell

Thanks a lot - got it now!
Maybe it could be helpful for others to look at your answer
with the placeholders replaced by "real" strings as it was hard for me
to figure out the right form:
tell document 1
set theDest to make hyperlink text destination with properties {name:"Some name", destination text:<a reference to the relevant text>}
this line for example looks like this =>
set theDest to make hyperlink text destination with properties {name:"Some name", destination text:insertion point 902 of story id 44083 of document "kapitel 3.indd" of application "Adobe InDesign CS4"}
set theSource to make cross reference source with properties {name:"Some name",source text:< reference to the relevant text>}
this line for example looks like this =>
set theSource to make cross reference source with properties {name:"Some name", source text:cursorPosition, applied format:cross reference format id 44305 of document "kapitel 1.indd" of application "Adobe InDesign CS4"}
where "cursorPosition" was defined before by
set cursorPosition to object reference of selection
(the cross reference source needs the applied format reference too)
make hyperlink with properties {source:theSource, destination:theDest, visible:true, highlight:invert, width:thick, border color:dark green, border style:dashed, name:"Whatever" }
this line for example looks like this =>
make hyperlink with properties {source:theSource, destination:hyperlink text destination id 44184 of document "kapitel 3.indd" of application "Adobe InDesign CS4", border color:black, highlight:none, border style:solid, hidden:false, visible:true, width:thin}
end tell

Phantom Cross-References

I have removed all cross-references from 17 documents collected into an InDesign Book. But when I try to export to PDF, I get an error message saying there are unresolved or out-of-date cross-references in 8 of the 17 documents. There is nothing showing in the Cross-Reference section at the bottom of the Hyperlinks panel. I added "Cross-References" to the preflight profile, but everything preflights just fine. Is there something else I am missing?

No, the original cross-references came in some Word files that were submitted by authors from all over the world. When they showed up in the Cross-Reference panel as unresolved (or out of date, or whatever) I deleted them, as I didn't need or want them in my document. Now there are no cross-references showing in any of the panels of the 17 documents that are in my Book. When I preflight the documents, using a profile that includes checking cross-references, everything preflights OK. But when I export to PDF, I get a warning that there are unresolved or out-of-date cross-references in 8 of the 17 documents. I can't figure out how to find the offending cross-references so I can fix (delete) them and stop getting that warning.

TCS2 - Cross References between linked Frame files not working

Hi,
All the cross-references in my linked in FrameMaker 9 files work when output in PDF, however, when outputting WebHelp from RoboHelp 8, FrameMaker cross references that reference another FrameMaker file (i.e. not Current) do not work. The format is correct, they appear blue and underlined like every other link/cross-reference, but when moused over in the browser, there's no link to click. The HTML created by RoboHelp does not point to a file. For example, here's the HTML for one link not working as shown from within RoboHelp:
   •   <a>Create Supported App from
Install</a>.
RoboHelp appears to partially convert the link as appears in the HTML but I think there should be more information in the <a> definition, such as in the HTML created for a link that references a topic created from the same FrameMaker file.
   •   <a
 href="#XREF_17096_Creating_an">Creating an App</a>
I've ensured all the cross-references in each framemaker file in the book have the same format and are mapped to <$paratext> in the project settings. I've also tried importing the FrameMaker book instead of linking it and the same problem persists.
Any ideas on how to make RoboHelp create the link correctly? Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Jacquie Finney

Most of the major cross reference issues have been resolved in TCS 2 with further improvements in TCS 3.
Please ensure that you have all the patches of TCS 2 installed on your system.
If the issue is still there, there could be an altogether different reason for cross reference not working or the issue might have been fixed in TCS 3.
The reason or workaround can be analysed once the sample files with the issues are provided.
It will be great if you could share a small sample FM document containing the cross reference and target having the issue. If the cross reference is across documents, then a FrameMaker book along with its FM files can be shared in a zip format.
You can mail the documents to me at magrawalATadobeDOTcom
Mayank

Cross references causing ID to bog down

I hope this is my last question for a while . . . I have a ID book document containing hundreds of cross references across several documents. Whenever I open one or more of the files, ID starts blinking the busy cursor at me (interspersed with a ready cursor that goes away before you can actually do anything). This swirling busy cursor just goes and goes and goes--I suspect that the application is checking all the hundreds of cross references over and over again. However, nothing is changing on those refs and the "checking" behavior is practically making InDesign useless. I can't do anything without waiting minutes for ID to finally calm down and let me click on something again. Is there anyway to turn off that constant reference checking or maybe convert all the cross references to static hyperlinks so ID will operate normally?

Hey, seconding this problem! This is beyond annoying and into "why didn't I buy Quark Xpress". There HAS to be a way to prevent this from occurring. Somebody?? Anybody?? Buhler??

Copy Paste text that contains cross-references destroys them

Hi folks,
Using ID CS 5.5.
Working on a book file that contains ca. 30 documents.
Copying (or cutting) and pasting any text that includes a cross-reference to another document in the book breaks the cross-reference. This happens even if pasting directly back into the same location. Cross-references to locations within the same document are not affected.
Is this a known issue? Is there some kind of work around? It seems like too big a bug to not already be solved.
Thanks.
EDIT: working on this further, I realize it's actually much, much worse than I've described. Copying and pasting crossrefs across documents can sometimes destroy all cross refs in all documents in the book.

painstakingly change each setting on the control tab.
Painstakingly is your only option other than using something like this: http://www.xmedit.com/
-DH

Cross references in structured documents

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