Debian Sid and Arch

Is it fair to compare Debian Sid and Arch, as they bother rolling releases?
If so, how come is Arch so much more stable than Debian Sid. seen as Arch has a handful of developers VS Debian with a over a thousand?
Or is that the answer itself?

From Wikipedia:
Software packages in development are either uploaded to the project branch named unstable, also known as sid, or the experimental branch. Software packages uploaded to unstable are normally versions stable enough to be released by the original upstream developer, but with the added Debian-specific packaging and other modifications introduced by Debian developers. These additions may be new and untested. Software not ready yet for the unstable branch is typically placed in the experimental branch.
So unless its in experimental repo, it is in unstable and if one wanted to use Debian nearer the edge then SID would be the way esp when Sarge was out for a few years and no Etch was in sight.
Yet Sid is very unstable from my few times I played with it
The main thing for me is Arch stays pretty up to date with such a few developers yet Debian cant with so many, just seems odd.
Then one needs to use Ubuntu that tries to tame Debian every 6 months, just odd that Debian could not do what Arch does with so few DEV's?
I think I may be missing the bigger picture of debian?
Last edited by habtool (2007-10-25 11:07:42)

Similar Messages

Arch vs. debian sid?

Hey y'all,
I've been using arch for a while now...but debian sid always seemed like a decent idea due to the large software repositories available for debian. Considering the minimal, net install version: what are your opinions?

sand_man wrote:
mutlu_inek wrote:
The only advantage is see in Debian is that it offers debug packages. I hate not having them in Arch.
Other than that, I cannot imagine a better distribution.
But with ABS you can create your own debug packages if you really needed to.
I do admit that the option of quickly downloadable binary packages of debug symbols is very nice.
I'm trying out Debian Squeeze on my laptop. I'll probably go back to Arch on it, for one main reason: It's MUCH easier to create a custom package, or a more up-to-date version of it in Arch (when it's not already there, thanks to the massive AUR). If I really want a new version of a package, and for some odd reason Arch doesn't have it, I can grab the PKGBUILD, edit the pkgver and md5sums, and usually, I'm done. On Debian... well, if there is anything like that, let me know please. I haven't used Checkinstall yet, I admit that too, but I'd be worried about using a package generator for Arch, let alone a much more heavily patched and such distro like Debian. Checkinstall is basically just a fakeroot-style wrapper around make install, right? While the Debian repos are expansive, they do miss edge cases more than you might think (Avidemux is missing! There is an unofficial repo for it though). Also gone is the ability to grab development (git, svn, cvs) snapshots of packages without much hacking, whereas on Arch there's a ton of devel PKGBUILDs in the AUR, and worst case it's fairly simple to make your own.
Really, PKGBUILDs have spoiled me... the only distro/OS even close to Arch's bleeding-edge updates and wide coverage is FreeBSD, which at least has a visible way of rebuilding packages and modifying the build files. Slackware, maybe (a little over-manual, but still nice), and Gentoo's ebuilds are quite complex, but I'm getting off topic.
I recommend that people who are considering Debian try it, like I have. Just be sure that all your odd software works fine. If not, welcome back to the land of ./configure and make, just with Checkinstall thrown in.
In the interests of NOT starting a flame war, the above is my own personal complaints about Debian. I think Debian is a very solid distro, and I'm glad Debian exists. I just like to state my opinion. All the above sounds decidedly negative, which isn't the impression I meant to give -- again, I think Debian's nice for a lot of uses and applaud their work.

Loop-AES and Arch

Hi,
I was thinking on making a distro hop again, this time to Arch. I have used Arch once before but that didn't impress me as I din't even get my nVidia drivers installed
Im currently running Debian Sid with encrypted LVM partitions using the dm-crypt.
After browsing net a bit and making myself more familiar to encryption options I though to try the loop-AES as it seems to be more secure and faster option than the dm-crypt.
Does loop-AES work with LVM or how?
After I have sufficient info I think I try to install it on my laptop.
Correct me if I'm wrong, you can install a Arch and then encrypt the existing installation without erasing the data on partition with loop-aes?
I'm planning on using the Suspend2 also with the loop-aes. I'll follow this http://wiki.suspend2.net/EncryptedSwapAndRoot.

Ranguvar, you probably want to use our archiso scripts http://projects.archlinux.org/?p=archiso.git;a=summary
they even come with the config files we use for our official releases.
Just look at the file with the package list and replace the packages you want.
See also http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Dev … o_building

Debian vs. Arch

I'm using Debian as my main OS. I've read on the Arch webpage about it and came to the thinking that Arch is very similiar to Debian. Pacman seems very much like apt in Debian.
Debian has many more packages than Arch, so it has better support for many software.
Can you post replies and tell me what makes Arch better than Debian?

I won't dissapoint you, but
- Prozessor optimization is only one brick in the wall. A well done setup does a better job. Lately, after I burned my Arch with a now solved kernel26-jfsutils-bug, I tried debian sid. It was faster then arch - and more complete. But yes, it is a step older. Gnome 2.4 is the limit, even if you run debian sid (don't know about debian experimental, is that stuff running at all?). But it is well configurated. Fast and stable. Why the hell do I use arch ?
- Apt-get can do some things, pacman can't - so far. What I like on apt if compared to pacman, is it will check dependencies before downlads. Pacman still fetches stuff, and compares then. This is a bad behaviour, as far as I am concerned. On more point: using apt-get install gnome-* will fetch all packages matching the wildcard. I was glad, pacman could do the same, if I remember the pain with gnome 2.6, this feature was needed.
- Debian has a large number of packages. If they are not enough, use apt-source, ore alien to integrate rpm's. Wow.
- Localization is a point the debian community is very hard working for. If you want a complete(!) german or russian or arabic or japanese linux, from console up to gui, use debian. I don't know if you can do with arch, but I fear not.
- Debian uses 'normal' static /dev. You can do what you want to do with your devices. If you like, use udev. No problem, well integrated. Use discover, mdetect, read-edid, hotplug, fxload, kudzu and a modulized kernel, if you want some comfort.
So why do I use arch?
Good question. Looks well. Bleeding edge, but newest code on the machines. Arch don't cares for free or non-free debates. In debian, it is still a risk to install mplayer, because it uses windows codecs. Therefore, it is not an official part of debian. You will find several port trees and debian sources anyway, but if the maintainer does a lousy job, your apt database will soon be f*cked up. This is only one example.
So, in the end, I think it is debians "we only integrate real free and gpl licensed code" paradigma, that lead me from debian to arch.

Dual Booting Windows and Arch (SOLVED!)

Hello all, I'm having trouble getting a windows partition activated again. (Windows was on here for many years, then I installed arch on a separate partition.)
Here is the layout of fdisk -l:
Disk /dev/sda: 100.0 GB, 100030242816 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 12161 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x00000000
Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sda1 * 1 7833 62918541 7 HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sda2 7834 12039 33784695 83 Linux
/dev/sda3 12040 12161 979965 82 Linux swap / Solaris
sda1 is the windows partition, and sda2 is the arch partition. The linux partition SHOULD be primary bootable (have the * next to it),but all my attempts to do this have failed. (I've used "testdisk" to change the flags, but for some reason it keeps reverting back to setting sda 1 as primary bootable after a reboot or 2).
This is the pertinent section of /boot/grub/menu.lst:
title Arch Linux
root (hd0,1)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz26 root=/dev/disk/by-uuid/f3be3baa-3b62-460c-8801-64b0b1cca$
initrd /boot/kernel26.img
# (1) Arch Linux
title Arch Linux Fallback
root (hd0,1)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz26 root=/dev/disk/by-uuid/f3be3baa-3b62-460c-8801-64b0b1cca$
initrd /boot/kernel26-fallback.img
# (1) Windows
title Windows XP
rootnoverify (hd0,0)
makeactive
chainloader +1
I have a . . . modified . . . copy of XP Professional, which comes with a recovery console to reinstall the MBR if it's necessary.
From what I've researched, I somehow need to reinstall grub to the second partition, make the second partition primary bootable, then rewrite the MBR on the first partition, and correct any command errors in menu.lst, but I haven't really figure out a way to do it.
Thanks in advance for your help!
Last edited by mongoose088 (2008-12-20 21:48:18)

I read up on some documentation of installing GRUB to the MBR.
So far, I went into ArchLive (from the cd) and did the following
grub> root (hd0,1)
grub> setup (hd0)
The installation reports success with no errors, but the problem persists. Arch linux will boot fine, but when I select XP it flashes my configuration, like so:
title Windows XP
rootnoverify (hd0,0)
makeactive
chainloader +1
then kicks me back to the OS select GRUB screen. Did I install it to the wrong place?
EDIT:
I decided to issue this command:
grub> setup(hd0,1)
It reported some errors, then arch couldn't mount the ntfs partition because of possible MFT cluster errors.
Using testdisk, I repaired the boot sector and MFT clusters, then using ArchLive reinstalled grub with grub>(hd0)
Arch and Arch Fallback will boot correctly, but now the windows side shows an error:
rootnoverify (hd0,0)
makeactive
chainloader +1
Loading stage2Read Error (or something to this extent)
I wonder if this error brings me closer or farther to a solution?
Thanks for the replies so far!
Last edited by mongoose088 (2008-12-20 05:41:43)

Error installing Acrobat Reader in Debian SID

Hello,
The postinst script of the .deb package for Acroread 9.1 in my Debian SID gives the following error:
$ LC_ALL=C sudo dpkg -a --configure
Setting up adobereader-enu (9.1.0) ...
dpkg: error processing adobereader-enu (--configure):
subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1
Errors were encountered while processing:
adobereader-enu
However, acroread was installed and is working fine.
The error message don't gives any clue to fix the problem. Any ideas?

Hi,
Thanks for reporting this.
We've been trying to reproduce the problem but have been unsuccessful so far.
Could you please do the following:
1. Edit the /var/lib/dpkg/info/adobereader-enu.postinst file and put a 'set -x' before the Which () function.
2. Now run the "LC_ALL=C sudo dpkg -a --configure >output.log 2>&1".
This will generate a file named output.log. Please email the contents of that file to varunk at adobe dot com.
Thanks again,
-Varun

Q : How to run debian inside of arch

Hi, I have a question
I really love arch, but the project i'm working on requires Debian (stable) meaning : old gcc(3.3.5), xfree86, debian tools, filesystem layout and so on.
I have a 2 (actually more) partitions one with debian, one with arch. Right now choose on boot one or another.
I'd like to run debian inside of arch, but not via VmWare or qemu or some other emulator because I need things to compile quick (this IS a big project) and run at native speed (really important)
Newer kernel in arch is not an issue(or at least shouldn't be) but versions of tools and libraries as well as file locations are critical.
Any ideas ?

Hi torindan2,
You should have a look to debootstrap. That way you would only need a chroot inside your debian tree, without the CPU and memory overhead of a virtual machine on top of your Archlinux.
Procedure (from what i remember) :
- go to packages.debian.org
- choose "debootstrap"
- download the source code of debootstrap (it is a shell script)
- call it with the right parameters (AFAIR it required to read the source, but it is quite readable)
- now debian is installed in the directory of your choice.
- chroot a shell inside that tree
- update the fstab for the proc and sys filesystems of the debian tree
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Linking error, Oracle 9.2.0.1 debian sid

Hi
During installation of Oracle 9.2.0.1 on debian sid I get the following error:
Error in invoking target ioracle of makefile /opt/oracle/product/9.2.0/rdbms/lib/ins_rdbms.mk
The make.log file reveals the following error:
/usr/bin/ld: /opt/oracle/product/9.2.0/rdbms/lib/oracle: hidden symbol `__fixunssfdi' in usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-linux/3.2.3/libgcc.a(_fixunssfdi.oS) is referenced by DSO
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
make: *** [opt/oracle/product/9.2.0/rdbms/lib/oracle] Error 1
Do I need to modify the makefile or is it a glibc problem?
I've searched around for a solution to no avail. Any help is appreciated!
Regards
Lars Kristensen

Hi,
Oracle required gcc295 for Linux Oracle to link correctly. We put the gcc295 at /opt/gcc295 and the put it first in the path for the Oracle userid. This work very well. Also there was a note the said to look in the files (gen/make files) and change any hard coded reference to a specific gcc location to just gcc. I looked and did not find any hard coded specific gcc. Hope this helps

Dual boot Windows 7 (64) and Arch Linux (64) problems

Hello:
I am new to Arch Linux and just finished installing the 64bit on my laptop. It had a prebuilt Windows 7 (64) installed which I kept but split the hdd from 160Gb to 80Gb and 80Gb. I installed Arch there and set 4 partitions, all of them as Logical - a 64 MB ext2 /boot partition; a 512 MB swap partition; a 15 GB root partition; and the rest as my /home partition. My partitions look like this:
Disk Drive: /dev/sda
Size: 160041885696 bytes, 160.0 GB
Heads: 255 Sectors per Track: 63 Cylinders: 19457
Name Flags Part Type FS Type [Label] Size (MB)
sda1 Primary Unknown (27) 12889.02
sda2 Boot Primary NTFS 106.93
sda3 Primary NTFS [] 73915.11*
sda5 Logical Linux ext2 65.81*
sda6 Logical Linux 509.97*
sda7 Logical Linux ext2 15002.92*
sda8 Logical Linux ext2 57549.55*
The install was succesful(this was running from the core install cd) and I installed GRUB to my /boot but when I restarted it loaded Windows 7. I have used Knoppix USB disc to boot and see my Arch Linux install files and edited the /boot/gur/menu.lst file.
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root (hd0,4)
kernel /vmlinuz26 root=/dev/sda3 ro
initrd /kernel26.img
My goal is to get a dual boot working for Windows 7 and Arch Linux 64 and continue installing the Xorg and KDE to Arch. I just don't know what the problem is here. I don't mind reinstalling Arch if something went wrong, but I would like to keep my Windows running in order and add Arch on.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I ran the LiveCD and chose "Install to MBR hd0". I ended up with this:
setup hd(0,1)
Checking if "/boot/grub/stage1" exists.....yes
Checking if "/boot/grub/iso9660_stage1_5" exists.....yes
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Error 31: File is not sector aligned
My entry for Windows into the menu.lst looks like this:
# (0) Arch Linux x64
title Arch Linux x64
root (hd0,4)
kernel /vmlinuz26 root=/dev/disk/by-uuid/3841273c-d91e-41d6-9dbf-716a15d03a01 ro
initrd /kernel26.img
# (1) Arch Linux x64
title Arch Linux x64 Fallback
root (hd0,4)
kernel /vmlinuz26 root=/dev/disk/by-uuid/3841273c-d91e-41d6-9dbf-716a15d03a01 ro
initrd /kernel26-fallback.img
# (2) Windows 7
title Windows 7
rootnoverify (hd0,0)
makeactive
chainloader +1

Differnace b/w SID and Global data base name

please tell me what is differance b/w SID and global data base name.

Hi,
Oracle System Identifier (SID)
A name that identifies a specific instance of a running pre-release 8.1 Oracle database. For any database, there is at least one instance referencing the database.
For pre-release 8.1 databases, SID is used to identify the database. The SID is included in the connect descriptor of a tnsnames.ora file and in the definition of the listener in the listener.ora file.
http://download-uk.oracle.com/docs/cd/B19306_01/network.102/b14213/glossary.htm#i433004
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http://download-uk.oracle.com/docs/cd/B19306_01/network.102/b14213/glossary.htm#i435858
Adith

Bookmarks opens in a window 2/3's the size of my screen since the latest update. Now the first bookmark I scroll over covers the whole window instead of too the side and I can't close it without closing the bookmarks window

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All is in the title, so I repeat it below with a better identation.
What are the pros and cons of
1) choosing to use the SAME
Apple ID for iCloud services on one side, and
purchases on the iTunes Store, App Store, and iBookstore, on the other side; or
2) to have and use two separate Apple Ids for these "two sides"?
P.S.
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Also need to mention that I have itunes on a mac, a pc and an iphone.
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Hi,
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and hence it need two tomcat server.
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Hi,
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Hi Oxfordataloss,
Thanks for posting. I'm really sorry you've had such problems with BT, it's certainly not the kind of service we would hope to provide. I'll take your comments on board and if you don't receive the final bill as expected please drop me an email with the account details and a link to this thread for reference.
Cheers
David
BTCare Community Mod
If we have asked you to email us with your details, please make sure you are logged in to the forum, otherwise you will not be able to see our ‘Contact Us’ link within our profiles.
We are sorry but we are unable to deal with service/account queries via the private message(PM) function so please don't PM your account info, we need to deal with this via our email account :-)

Debian Sid and Arch

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