Destructive editing of Regions in LP8 with SP2?

Hi!
Like some others I hoped, a function "destructive editing" (applying plugins to audio files) was applied in LP8, but it still isn't.
As Soundtrack Pro is delivered with Logic Studio now, it should be easy to apply any plugin to a region in the arrange of Logic by using the key command "edit in external editor".
Yes, but if you are completely new to Soundtrack Pro 2, it is hard to find out, how to apply a plugin DESTRUCTIVELY!!!! and quickly to the audio file represented by the region in Logic - with a single click - without copying or re-importing to Logic.
Is anyone experienced? (might be a "Protools-killer"
thanks in advance and cheers!
david

I've done it by accident, but it is possible to do destructive edits in STP2. Perhaps, I can retrace my steps and see if I can do it purposefully.
jord

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Destructive editing

this sort of goes along with my other thread. but im wondering if theres a reason why logic does not offer destructive editing. i know some use the freeze feature for this. but it doesnt auto replace an audio region liek when you use audio suite plug ins in pro tools. so whats the reason logic has never offered this feature in the waveform editor?

I miss this feature as well. I tried to get used working like this:
- create an audio track just for bouncing.
- it should be routed to an output (or two for stereo and mono) without any plugIns inserted.
- you can predefine a set of your favourite or frequently used plugIns in the channel strip of your bounce track. you can even create several sets since logic allows saving them!
- let al the plugIns being bypassed all the time.
- just activate a requred plugIn when needed for bouncing.
doing this, there is no need to search in a long list of audio suite plugIns every time you change it - like you have to in protools!
the rest is said by iSchwartz.
though, you are absolutely right, that there should be a "comfortable quick access solution for destructive editing" - like there used to be one before.
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David wrote -
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It is the way Apple has chose to deal with external editor edits.... as I have wrote below in various other threads so no one else has to talk to someone for over two hours on the same thing....
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Windows XP Home with SP2 QUESTION

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How do I make "destructive edits" in Lightroom like I do in ACR?

Hey Guys,
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Destructive editing issue

Could someone please offer me some advice. I am wondering why I cannot perform any destructive editing on audio files that I have recorded myself??? I understand about the apple loops and what not, but I should be able to do whatever I want with my own recordings....Read and Write privileges are ok, I am the administrator and I have exhausted all of the angles I can think of. I am simply trying to edit in any way audio files I have recorded myself, there is nothing as far as DRM or anything like that, they are my audio samples and I cannot understand why Logic won't let me edit them. The function tab in the editor in Logic comes up with nothing highlighted??

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Destructive editing problems.

Why have apple made imovie a destructive editing programe? As far as i can tell, the only way to safely edit your movies (without editing the source material) is to copy and paste the movie into your timeline, which chews up hard drive space. What's more... there's no way to add length to a clip (as in the opposite of trimming a clip); if you make a clip too short and save your movie, thats it, it's short for good unless you delete it and start working on that clip again.
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So you're left to try trimming tiny bits off the clip until it's exactly right on time... and make sure you don't take too much off... or you'll have to repaste the whole clip and start again!
I know finaly cut has all this awsomeness (for a price that i currently can't afford being a student) but it would be great if imovie could add something like non destructive editing because it's so much more functional. I'm not trying to say that imovie *** or anything... I think it's great to have an easy to use video editor that keeps it simple... but please please Apple make imovie a non destructive editing programme.
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-thanks for putting up with my complaining - Ben.
using imovie 5.0.2
imac G5 Mac OS X (10.4.7)

Why have apple made imovie a destructive editing programe?
You are incorrect. Beginning with iMovie 5, the iMovie application uses NONdestructive editing, similar to Final Cut. If you find you have trimmed too much of a clip, you can easily move the playhead to the edge of the clip in the timeline where it will change to an arrowlike icon and you can drag that to either lengthen or shorten the clip. If you have split the clip and deleted the portion you wish to have now, you can click on the remaining clip, go to Advanced and choose 'restore original' and get the entire clip back.
Regarding your difficulty with timing to music, iMovie does have problems with audio and video skipping and stuttering. There is a huge discussion on this topic, with 28 pages of work-arounds written by Karl Peterson. Have a look at this and see if one of his recommended methods will help you.
Find that here: http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=534252
Don't worry about complaining a bit.....working with iMovie can be frustrating. That's why these discussions exist

No destructive editing using installed plug-ins in the sample editor.

It is a shame that it looks like there still is no destructive editing using installed plug-ins in the sample editor. Seems very obvious to me that this feature should be included in Logic. Very disappointing. I’m assuming that you will be able to do this via Soundtrack Pro, but that’s just another layer added to the work flow.

fermusic wrote:
in any case there are no reason to use Soundtrack pro for make a destructive editing with AU plugins.
While everything you say is absolutely correct, in terms of being able to do this within Logic itself, there are times when using Soundtrack Pro does make more sense for destructive printing of AU FX's.
High pass filtering a vocal track with a lot of plosives comes to mind. It's easier to destructively apply the AU high pass filter on just the plosive syllable, or waveform in STP, than in Logic.
Same goes for some extreme cases of De-essing.
With STP selected as your external audio editor, it's very easy to use from within Logic. The two co-exist quite gracefully.
I'd personally love to see Logic adapt some of STP's destructive capabilities, and I'd actually be surprised if we didn't see that at some point in it's evolution.
But I say none of this to dismiss what you've generously offered here. The information you provided in your first post is important for the Logic novice to be aware of.

Destructive editting workflow suggestions, please.

Like many, am converting dozens of VHS to digital, but would like to intensely edit them down. Would like to do the final editing with FCE, but its non-destructive editing will clog my HD's with hours of useless footage.
Which app/apps do I use to import from VHS, edit destructively, then export keepers to FCE for final production? I've got the horsepower and would like the final quality to be as good as possible.
Much obliged.

The choice is actually a compromise between your time and how much hard drive space you can afford. And I think you're doubling your work or more if you capture in some other app first if you really intend to use FCE for editing. Personally, I think hard drive space is a lot cheaper than my time.
To import VHS you will need an analog-digital converter (another subject if you need help there). The converters are non-controllable devices which means you have to capture using Capture Now. While you could conceivably jog your tapes back & forth enough to capture individual clips (theoretically saving hard drive space) you will spend an enormous amount of time capturing clip by clip.
It is much much faster, and easier, to capture the entire tape at once (or, say, half a tape ... 60 mins at at time) and then in FCE pick & choose which segments you actually want. Then, if you really want to, you can export your selected clips to QT Movie 1 by 1 (as self-contained QT movies) thereby giving yourself individual clip files of only the material you really want to keep.
There are other apps like Foottrack and iDive that will enable you to capture video but you face the same time issues as you would capturing with FCE or iMovie.

Are .jpg images non-destructive editing?

If changes to .jpg's are non-destructive in LR, how can you migrate the changes /w images to another copy of LR on another computer? I've noticed Exporting .jpg's export the changed .jpg's, which must mean that they undergo another round of compression in the copy, no?

I want to straighten up some issues with jpeg files in LR 1.0
1. By importing a jpeg file into LR you will notice that you can use the develop module but certain features are just not as good as they are with real raw files.
White Balance: It's there but without presets and without Kelvin readings. It is still better that everything else I saw so far in other applications to rescue a jpeg file with wrong WB settings applied
Camera Calibration: Only the Embedded Preset is available
Overall the adjustment sliders feel less subtle and precise because there is no additional headroom of 16bit (actually 12bit with most cameras) files compared with the 8bit jpeg offers
2. When you write back changes you have made in LR either by using "Metadata->XMP->Export XMP Metadata to File" in the menu or automatically with the Preference setting "Automatically write changes into XMP" the pixel information of the jpeg is never changed. There is solely an update of the metadata section of the jpeg file. This is what I refer to as 'Non Destructive Editing"
3. You need to use an application which is able to interpret LR adjustments to see changes of the jpeg file you made in the LR develop module. In the moment only LR and Photoshop CS3 beta (using ACR 4.0 ) are able to do that. For all other applications which can display jpeg files the changes are not visible because the pixel information didn't change.
4. If you use the LR Export function in the Library Module you can render a new jpeg file where the changes are reflected in the pixel section of the file. This is of course no longer non-destructive because the original compressed pixel information in the original jpeg file has been decompressed, changed according to the develop settings and then recompressed again in the jpeg format. This is just what you did all the years before with jpeg files.
5. You can also use the LR Export function to export a jpeg file as DNG file. Here it is important to understand that the JPEG file will only be compressed with a lossless algorithm resulting in a file which is roughly 5 times the size of your original file depending on your initial jpeg quality settings. This option allows you to open the file in Bridge/Photoshop CS2 and to see the adjustments there but it does not give you any real advantage compared to 2. if you use CS3 and I don't recommend it in the moment. Perhaps we see here more options in the future.

Editing audio regions

I have two questions regarding editing audio regions that I had difficulty with. After referring to the quick start manual and the manual on the help menu, I was unsure how to proceed.
1) Sometimes when I want to divide/cut an audio region so that I can copy part of it to another part of the track, I don't get it exactly at a zero crossing. I zoom in ALL the way possible and whenever I try to drag the corners to a zero crossing, I always jumps and cuts off another wave form. I'm having a lot of trouble getting the regions in the zero crossing. I tried double clicking on the region, it opened a type of audio editor. In the edit menu (I think), I checked the "zero crossing". When I zoomed in there and tried to adjust the selection or start, again it would not let me. Can someone please point me in the right direction.
2) When I am moving regions on one track and there is a little bit of overlap, one region always cuts off the other one. I am having trouble figuring how to make logic understand which region I want "on top" and also wondering if there is anyway I can have the audio from both regions play simultaneously while they overlap on the same track.
Thanks very much,
~Nico

okay, to answer Q:2 first...if there are two patches of audio overlapping, one will cut to the other as the scroll point reaches and passes them. if you want both to play simultaneously, put one patch of audio under the other, on another track.this is the quick and easy solution to that problem
for Q1, well there are a few approaches for editing audio. an easy way is to copy/paste the audio to the area on the arrange page you want it to be. double click it to open the audio edit window, then use the little in/out points at the left and right bottom corners respectively (they look like little triangles). move these points to the start/end point of the section of audio you want. you can make these points very precise. at this point you may want to go to the FILE drop down menu and 'save the selection as....', name it and add to audio window. then it will be named here to be re-used/edited without affecting the original audio. if you want to cut within a waveform, you can apply little fade in/outs to stop any clicking. remember any edits you make to your original pieces of audio are usually permanent, so always worth copying and renaming patches you are editing.
hope this helps, as i say, there are so many ways to edit audio, so i'm sure another user will give you some different advice. the more you experiment, the more you'll find little ways to do things.
as long as you have copies of the audio you are editing, just play around with it, untill you discover things...thats the best way.
good luck

Prepare sharepoint 2010 with sp2 environment on windows server 2012 R2

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Trevor Seward, MCC
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This post is my own opinion and does not necessarily reflect the opinion or view of Microsoft, its employees, or other MVPs.

Destructive editing of Regions in LP8 with SP2?

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