DNG & Camera Manf. JPG color conversions

IF, a Camera Manf. had a camera that outputs to DNG ... could they imbed in the DNG file ... the "equivelent" of LR "pre-sets" for "there" JPG Color conversion.
* So, In LR at a click of a Pre-set listing you could see what the Camera Manf. JPG out of the camera would be like. (if you "would have" shot this DNG in JPG) ... and then you could do a compair.
Or maybe you would "just" run it as a choice on import ... as a starting point, or when in a rush a result.
* Just curious ... could this be done?
Is it only me, or could this be a useful productivity feature for LR.
p.s. I do get the fact that you could make your own pre-sets for your camera.

> "being a designer/distributor myself you are always trying to find ways to make your product (output) different and exclusive ... so yes, having a Generic DNG and making "my" product/output a commodity would not be my first choice either".
I used to help design large, complicated, multi-supplier computer systems. I sometimes got involved with helping to procure products.
The suppliers would try to make us enthusiastic about their special features. If we procured their products, we would often simply lose those features under an abstraction layer of software - they were unwanted! We needed interchangeable components. Call it "commodity" if you like - but I don't really agree with that term here. "Commodity" to me implies that it doesn't matter which you choose. "Interchangeable" still leaves other factors to be taken into account.
If Nikon adopted DNG (chuckle!) we wouldn't really claim that a D40 and D80 and D200 and D2Xs were "commodity"! They would still be high quality high value differentiated products.
In fact, camera manufacturers are pretty foolish if they adopt such an attitude. Within weeks of camera launch, all the major raw converter suppliers have reverse-engineered the raw files and camera details enough to be able to perform high quality raw conversions. All essential aspects of the specification are known, and sometimes even published by 3rd parties!
Who do the camera manufacturers think they are hiding information from? Answer: "from 3rd party software companies whose mission is, in effect, to make the images from the camera look as good as possible"! How stupid can camera manufacturers be?
DNG still has ways for camera manufacturers to hold what Adobe call "secret sauce". There may well be limitations in the current specification of DNG that causes problems for some manufacturers - Hasselblad-Imacon apparently had problems. But most manufacturers almost certainly have no such problems - and Pentax shows what CAN be done by a camera manufacturer, (the one who once tried to promote the idea of a universal lens mount), that cares about its users and sees the way the world is moving.

Similar Messages

Nikon D90 RAW/NEF color vs. in-camera JPG color

I'm new to Aperture and also (now) taking more NEF+JPG images.
I've been satisfied with most of my JPGs in the past but I'm taking more RAW images now and finding that they don't match the JPG color when viewed in Aperture 3. When I use ViewNX to tweak RAW images the "starting point" for color and adjustments is much closer to the matching JPG but when I use Aperture, there are obvious differences between the JPG and Aperture's 'conversion' of the RAW image. The listed White Balance is different when Auto WB is used and the histogram is much different. The RAW image isn't a good starting point from which to begin tweaking to improve upon the JPG.
I realize that there are efforts by others to "profile" the Nikon cameras but I'm surprised that Aperture is so far off the mark. Both iPhoto and Photoshop Elements seem to do a better job.
(The latest ACR is installed.)

I suppose it depends on what in-camera processing you're doing (Normal, Vivid, active D-lighting, etc). What you're seeing on the screen, and in ViewNX is edits applied to the jpeg embedded in the RAW file.
The RAW will always look different from the jpeg, because the RAW has absolutely no processing done to it. iPhoto should look identical to Aperture as I believe it uses the same RAW processing. PSE/Lightroom/PS all use ACR, and they should all look the same, but will likely look somewhat different from iPhoto and Aperture.
I generally just keep my D80 on Normal (and it doesn't have active D-lighting, but I can selectively add D-lighting in the edit menu if I choose (I don't)), and I find that a small .05 bump to Contrast, .1 to Definition, .05-.1 to Saturation, and .1 to Vibrance is about exactly what I see on the camera screen. It's a good starting point, and I just created a preset I apply to every image I import (had a very similar preset in Lightroom).
One thing you could do is set up a tripod, set your camera to RAW+Jpeg, and go through each of the color modes, and active D-light modes. Once you get those into Aperture, you can tweak the RAW to match it's Jpeg, and save that as a preset. Then the next time you're out shooting, when you bring in your RAW images, you can just apply whatever preset (Normal, Softer, Vivid, etc) to them, and you'll have a starting point matching the out of camera Jpegs.
I'm actually planning on doing just that for my D80, and eventually when I upgrade to a D300 doing the same for it.

DNG camera profile - which to trust, Adobe's or X-Rite's?

I found that dual-illuminant DNG camera profiles created with X-Rite's ColorChecker application and Adobe's DNG Profile Editor give different visual results (the profiles were produced using the same set of 6500K/2850K illuminated photos). I'm now in trouble which profile(s) to trust, I assume Adobe's is correct...
Andreas

b2martin_a wrote:
I like the DNG Profile Editor better.
Me too. The purpose of the twisting is for more pleasing color. Cool dark greens, but warmer light greens; dark midnight blues, but warmer cyany light blues, deep dark reds, but warmer light reds...
Note: this exagerates what often happens in real life: shadows are cool, sunlit colors are warmer...
The linear profiles may be more accurate, but the twisted profiles may look better.
Obviously this is subjective, and may depend on the shot and the purpose for it...
My favorite profile is a customized version of Adobe Standard created with DNG Profile Editor - a little dimmer in the upper-midtones/lower-highlights, a little less cyany blues, a little cooler greens, and slightly warmer (less magenta-y) reds.
Rob

DNG Camera Profile vs. White Balance?

I'm having trouble understanding DNG Camera Profiles and haven't found a good explanation online. I understand that each camera or camera/lens combination will have some variations, and I understand the white balance process. But I haven't grasped the idea that I can create a usable profile using one or two ColorChecker shots in conditions that aren't tightly controlled. For example, if I create a DNG Camera Profile using my tungsten lights, how does that help correct photos shot using different slightly warmer or cooler lights? How does the profile taken at an unknown color temperature help correct for another color temperature? And (more fundamentally) how is what the DNG Camera Profiles do different from a white balance adjustment? Feel free to just point me towards an existing explanation. I've read a lot about camera profiles, but I still don't quite get it. Thanks.

See this Luminance Landscape thread about dual illuminant profiles:
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=43733
If you scroll down to where I (tlooknbill) posted Color Checker chart samples, you'll see the visual differences.
Your camera may deliver different results.

Help me understand matrix profiles (DNG camera profiles)

I'm guessing it's a fairly simple question, so please bear with me as I'm working my way round trying to understand the DNG format:
After the de-bayering step, are DNG camera profiles pure 3-channel mathematical curves? I know Adobe DNG editor allows for adjustments from the Color-checker patches & there's some hue sliders etc, but do these build into RGB curves, or is it some kind of additional mild LUT (or something else) applied over the top?
Thanks!
Bert

read here how DNG (dcp) profiles are guiding (or rather how info there is being used by a code) the color transform in Adobe converters = http://wwwimages.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/products/photoshop/pdfs/dng_spec_1.4.0.0.p dfутили
also Sandy Mc... utility is useful to peek inside dpc profiles data = dcptool.sourceforge.net
may be also the following link = Dcp or Icc Profile?
and do a search for posting from Eric Chan (madmanchan) and participants like VitNovak ... here and also forums like LuLa

[AS][IDCS3] PDF Export Preferences Color Conversion setting

I want to set the field of Color Conversion (as equivalent to manual setting under Output>Color>Color Conversion) to "No Color Conversion" in Applescript but couldn't figure it out.
My skeleton Applescript is as follow:-
tell application "Adobe InDesign CS3"
   tell PDF export preferences
       -- I want to set No Color Conversion for Color Conversion here
   end tell
   tell document 1
       export format PDF type to filename without showing options
   end tell
end tell
I have search through Applescript ID CS3 dictionary but couldn't find the answer. Hope someone can advise. Thanks!

Use:
set effective PDF destination profile to use no profile
Shane Stanley <[email protected]>
AppleScript Pro Sessions <http://scriptingmatters.com/aspro>

[AS][INDCC] How to set Color Conversion field to No Color Conversion when creating PDF Export preset

How can i set Color Conversion field in Export to PDF dialog to No Color Conversion when creating PDF Export preset? i have done a bit of searching and have found where it has been recommended to set effective pdf destination profile to use no profile but it doesn't seem to be producting the expected results.

Yes, it seems that i had to make the change after creation, not while creating the preset. thank you.
tell application "Adobe InDesign CC"
     set newPreset to make new PDF export preset with properties ¬
          {name:"preset name", standards compliance:none, acrobat compatibility:acrobat 7}
     tell newPreset to set PDF color space to unchanged color space
end tell

CMYK to RGB color conversion?

Hi,
I have to convert CMYK color array in the RGB color space and vice versa.
I am using the following code;-
UID colorUID = iDrawing->GetColorUID(kFalse);
UIDRef colourUIDRef(iDrawing->GetDataBase(), colorUID);
InterfacePtr<IColorData> colorData(colourUIDRef, UseDefaultIID());
char
strColor[16]={0};
if(colorData->GetColorSpace() == kPMCsCalRGB)
    ColorArray rgbColor = Utils<IUIColorUtils>()->GetRGBColorValue(m_DB, colorUID);
    sprintf(strColor,
"#%.2x%.2x%.2x", ToInt32(rgbColor[0] * 255), ToInt32(rgbColor[1] * 255), ToInt32(rgbColor[2] * 255));
else
    ErrorCode errStatus = GetRGBColorStr(colourUIDRef, strColor);
ErrorCode GetRGBColorStr(UIDRef colourUIDRef,
char* strColor){
    ErrorCode status = kFailure;
    do
          I
nterfacePtr<IColorData> colorData(colourUIDRef, UseDefaultIID());          IDataBase* m_DB = colourUIDRef.GetDataBase();
// If color sapce is other then RGB then get the colour array
    ColorArray colourArray = colorData->GetColorData();
    // If the colour space is CMYK then convert it to RGB
    if(colorData->GetColorSpace() == ICMSProfile::kSourceTypeBuiltInCMYK)    {
          IDocument* document = Utils<ILayoutUIUtils>()->GetFrontDocument();
          ColorArray rgbColor = Utils<IColorSystemUtils>()->ColorTransform( document, colourArray, ICMSProfile::kSourceTypeBuiltInCMYK,ICMSProfile::kSourceTypeBuiltInRGB);
     sprintf(strColor,
"#%.2x%.2x%.2x", ToInt32(Round(rgbColor[0] * 255)), ToInt32(Round (rgbColor[1] * 255)), ToInt32(Round(rgbColor[2] * 255)));     status = kSuccess;
}while(kFalse);
return status;
}while(kFalse);
return status;

I did some experiments with Illustrator CS6 and the MacBeth RGB test chart and verified my results with Photoshop CS6. I discovered Illustrator is (mostly) doing what it should be doing, within a 1% error (probably rounding) on the output CMYK values. Here's a summary, in case anyone else needs this info:
Assuming the source file's elements are all untagged, when a mixed RGB/CMYK PDF is opened in Illustrator and CMYK mode is
chosen, Illustrator will use the profiles and rendering intent defined in
Color Settings to make the color conversions from RGB to CMYK. Thus, we
have control over the profiles used for this conversion.
If the RGB elements in the PDF file have embedded ICC profiles,
Illustrator will use the embedded ICC profile instead of the RGB profile
defined in Color Settings. This ONLY happens, however, if the PDF file
also includes the correct CMYK output intent profile.
If the PDF doesn't contain a CMYK output intent, Illustrator will fall
back on the Color Settings RGB profile for RGB->CMYK conversion. I believe it
would be more correct for Illustrator to use the embedded RGB profile and
the CMYK profile defined in Color Settings, but that's not how it seems to work.
If the PDF contains the incorrect CMYK output intent, Illustrator will
ignore the Color Settings and respect the embedded RGB and CMYK profiles
for the conversion, as might be expected.

Printing RGB colors - Conversion to CMYK?

Hi,
I have been working for a little while in converting my old RGB colors to CMYK printer friendly colors.
However, I carefully choosed my printing friendly CMYK colors to be as close as possible to the RGB colors but the prints are dull !
On the other hand, when I print my file withj RGB colors using the PDF Distiller tagged with Adobe1998 profile and send the file to the printer, colors look smarter !
It means that the CMYK colors I picked myself are not good enough anf the Color Managment in Adobe PDF or Illustrator are better than me ! As follows:
- In Illustrator -> Print -> Color Management tab -> Color Handling: Let Illustrator determine colors
- in Acrobat Reader -> Print -> Color Management tab of the plotter: Application managed colors
Both ouput similar quality prints, and better than my own CMYK colors !
Are the Application Color Management engines in Illustrator and in Adobe Reader similar in their conversion?
How can I find out which are the CMYK colors printed when the application (Reader or Illustrator) manages colors, from my initial RGB colors? I would like to use them directly in my document...
Thanks

Hi,
Thanks for your response. I put these color issues on hold because I had no time to search more on that recently...
However, I have still lots of questions about color conversion!
When I said "carefully choose" CMYK colors, it means CMYK colors printable and which look similar to my old RGB colors on-screen. But of course, screen is not enough!
What I noticed is that when I print my old RGB colors (not in printer color space), Adobe Reader or Illustrator were able to make good conversion to CMYK for printing.
Now, I would like to find out to which CMYK color codes Adobe Reader or Illustrator converted my RGB colors? Then, I would be able to use these CMYK color codes directly in my application...
Is there any way to find out that?
Cheers

LR 4 and custom DNG camera profiles... they are not embedded?!

i have the colorchecker passport for some days.
my workflow:
import the .CR2 raw files from memorycard as DNG copy into lightroom.
create a DNG camera profile with the colorchecker passport (LR export -> xrite colorchecker).
then i choose the created camera profile and i set the whitebalance.
all working fine... as it should.
my problem is, i don´t want to have a hundred DNG profiles, i will sure create that much over the time, on my harddisk.
i think it´s messy and it´s also not very save to have the profiles only as separate files, in case you lose the profiles.
i thought the camera profile can be embedded INTO the DNG file.
i thought the camera profile is written into the DNG files when i write the metadata back into the files.. but it seems not.
it seems the DNG camera profile is only embedded into the DNG image file when i EXPORT the DNG file again with the LR export dialog.
for example:
i choose the camera profil "MY 5D MK2 PROFIL_1" for an image and then save the metadata back into the DNG image file.
then i delete the camera profile "MY 5D MK2 PROFIL_1" from harddisk.
the next time i open LR and select the same image ... the cameraprofile is reverted back to "adobe standard" and the profil i have created is gone.
when i EXPORT the image as DNG, then even after i have deleted the DNG cameraprofile "MY 5D MK2 PROFIL_1" from the hardisk.... the profil is still in the DNG image.
that´s what i want... but i have to export all files again as DNG files.
i would really like to get rid of this extra step.
i hope my english is good enough so you understand what my problem is.
can anyone share a light on this?
is this the only way to embedd the DNG camera profile or im doing something wrong?
intel i7 2600k, win7 64bit, 16 GB ram, LR 4 final.

possible.... but imho that can lead (at least in my case ) to problems.
in the case when you forget to update the DNG manually and delete the profiles (because you think they are already embeded via STRG+S).
or when you send them to someone without updating the DNG preview... i think that is unessesary complicating things without gaining a real benefit.. not?
afaik there is no filter option so you can create a smartfilter for images that need to be updated this way?

Color conversion : special behavior with Spot Color "All"

Hello,
I have a document with printmarks which have a spot color "All". While I convert the page using the "Color conversion" to Gray 1.8 with Adobe Acrobat X the spot color "All" are still present (with the alternate color space DeviceGray).
Using Adobe Acrobat 9.x all objects have a DeviceGray color.
Is it a bug or a new behavior? Moreover the SDK method doesn't convert the spot color but keep the name (but I know this is not the right place to post it - it's just for information).
Regards,
Joe

I sense you may not understand the difference between sopt and process colors in the printing process.
When you use process inks you build all color representations by combining dots of varying sizes from each of the four process colors, cyan, magenta, yellow, and black. Because the dots are two small to be seen individually your brain is fooled into thinking it sees other colors. Process color printing requires four printing plates to produce the full range of colors possible, but that range is limited compared to what you can see in real life or capture in RGB.
Spot colors, in contrast, are similar to paint. Each color is mixed individually, and every spot color requires its own plate on the printing press (and you must use a press -- toner and inkjet printers use cmyk inksets and cannot print real spot colors). Because of the expense of these plates, the use of spot colors is usually limited to one or two colors in any print job, and if the job has other color (like photographs) that requires process inks, converting the spot colors to the closest process simulation is often employed if the spot colors can be simulated "close enough" to satisfy the client and the budget is tight.
I would avoid using process colors for type in small sizes or for very thin strokes, especially in lighter colors, as you are likely to see ragged edges.
So, how many spot color swatches did you use? More than two? More than four? Do you have a huge budget to produce the work? This may be a project that really should be designed from the ground up as process, or process and one spot for that hard to print bright accent color.

Disable color conversion when PDF export

how to disable color conversion in my sample scritp?
pdfExportPreset = app.pdfExportPresets.add({
name:"sample preset",
pdfExportPreset.standardsCompliance = PDFXStandards.PDFX1A2001_STANDARD;

actualy, if you need PDF-X1A standard, it's not as much about the export preset as is about the workflow. PDF/X-1a requires all fonts need to be embedded and all images need to be CMYK or spot colors. So if you have RGB images, they will be converted to obey the standard.

Looking inside of DNG Camera Profiles and editing them

For those interested in the insides of DNG Camera profiles, and how to edit them, I've written dcpTool.
dcpTool is a compiler/decompiler for DNG camera profiles (.dcp files). dcpTool can decompile binary format DCP files into an XML format for editing with a text editor or whatever, and then compile the XML format file back into a binary DCP file, as well as extract embedded profiles from DNG files. It runs on Windows and OS X command lines, and is based on V1.2 of the DNG SDK.
See here: http://dcptool.sourceforge.net/
Health warning: dcpTool is a command line utility - if you're not comfortable with command line stuff, dcpTool probably won't be of any interest to you.

Very cool, thanks for the info.

Feature Request: Opcodes in DNG Camera Profiles?

We now have V1.3 of the DNG spec, with support for opcodes, which is great.
Now, can we the ability to put opcodes in DNG camera profiles?
Given all the hard work has already been done to support opcodes, this would seem to me to be a really value adding thing to do. It would allow profiles to be created that support specific camera/lens combinations. E.g., it would allow the Leica M8's famous "Cyan corners" vignetting problem on uncoded wide ange lenses to be addressed by a profile rather than having to rewrite all the image's raw data.
Thanks,
Sandy

The files are in this directory on my Vista machine and my Win7 machine.
How far do you get when you try to click down to that path in Explorer: C:\ ?
If so:
C:\ProgramData is a hidden directory.
You can enable visibility of hidden files and folders by going to:
My Computer / Alt-Tools / Folder options... / View
and near the top you will find Hide and Show hidden files options.
However, you can also just open My Computer and type c:\programdata into the Address area and hit Enter and you'll be in that folder despite it being hidden, then click your way down to where you need to be.

Crash while launching in "building color conversion tables"

Photoshop CS6 crashes while "building color conversion tables" I reinstalled the program but it still hangs up at this point. please help!

I've only seen 3 things that can cause a crash at that point: corrupt profiles (mostly display profiles), corrupt information coming from the OS about the system profiles, and bad floating point units in CPUs.
First thing to check is the display profiles. If setting them to sRGB doesn't solve the crash, it might be a bug in the OS profile cache. And let's hope it isn't the CPU, because those problems are a @$%^@#%# to track down in modern processors.

DNG & Camera Manf. JPG color conversions

Similar Messages

Maybe you are looking for