DNG Profile Editor step-by-step usage

I hope all will forgive the long post, trying to both verify my understanding and perhaps help others by providing more detail.
1. Shot the CC with a D300 and D200 outside with cloud cover, exposures within seconds of each other, different lenses but both Nikkor.
2. Brought both nefs into ACR, white balanced (approx. 5500K) and equalized exposure using second neutral patch, applied new Adobe standard beta profiles to each. Very good match, first time I've ever seen truly equal images from the two cameras thru ACR.
3. Created DNG's of each cc image nef with DNG Converter.
4. Used DNG Profile Editor on the D300 image (white balanced), set base profile to Adobe standard beta, selected only the Red, Green, and Blue patches on second row. No changes to three colors, created recipe with "Edit both color tables smimultaneously" checked.
5. Opened recipe file with Wordpad, very interesting to examine, easy to see what's going on since in XML format. Six color adjustment sections, three for 2850 and three for 6500. Also the entire base profile in binary form is encapsulated in the XML file.
6. Opened D200 DNG file in PE, white balanced, used old 4.4 profile as base (deliberately trying to create different colors than D300). Loaded the D300 based recipe, exported new D200 profile.
7. Now back to ACR, loaded D300 cc image with Adobe standard beta profile selected and white balanced, and D200 cc image with old 4.4 profile selected and white balanced and exposure adjusted to match D300 image. Opened both in Photoshop CS3 in ProPhoto space. As expected, there was considerable difference in the color patches, both visually and by the numbers.
8. Back again to ACR, loaded D200 cc image with recipe modified profile from step 6 and white balanced and exposure adjusted to match D300. Brought into PS and compared to D300 image. Now the Red,Green,Blue patches matched well with the D300 image, only slight differences. Actually just selecting those three patches brought all 18 cc patches into a fairly close match.
In conclusion it appears to me that a recipe has enough information, with the color table entries and the embedded base profile, to "move" the same colors in another profile to achieve a good match. And it's apparently moving "both ends" (2850K and 6500K separate sections) of the profile appropriately, although I'm less sure of this. Quite an interesting and useful development by Adobe.
Richard Southworth

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About to use DNG Profile editor

I've had my Colorchecker for a few weeks, and I finally have time to set up my profiles for LR 3.4. In reading the DNG Profile editor tutorial page (http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles:Editor), I have a few questions:
1) If I use Tutorial 5, I am guessing I will have to create a profile for each lighting/WB condition, i.e., one for Tungsten, one for Fluorescent, one for sunny, one for overcast, one for flash, etc... Is that correct? Is there an advantage to doing this vs. going for the dual-illuminant approach explained in Tutorial 6?
2) In Tutorial 6, for the dual illuminant profiles, it states that one of the reference shots should be taken at 6500K. I'm not quite sure how to achieve this, since daylight and flash, to semi-constant WB sources I can easily achieve, are around 5000-5600K.
3) Should I (in LR) White-balance the Colorchecker reference shots, then convert to DNG, prior to bringing the DNG file into DNG Profile editor? Or is it preferable to WB as explained in Tutorial 1, step 3?
4) Finally, it's somewhat unclear how I bring the profiles into LR for use during the Import or Develop phases. Tutorial 1, step 9 mentions a "CameraProfiles directory" for ACR and LR, so I'm guessing I need to go digging through the Adobe folders to locate this directory and place/save my profiles there?

eswrite wrote:
1) If I use Tutorial 5, I am guessing I will have to create a profile for each lighting/WB condition, i.e., one for Tungsten, one for Fluorescent, one for sunny, one for overcast, one for flash, etc... Is that correct?
If you want a broad purpose DNG profile then yes, doing a dual illuminate profile is useful. Shoot a target under tungsten and under daylight and make the dual illuminate profile. There's no real reason you need to spawn off a bunch of other profiles for only slightly different light. The dual illuminate will handle cloudy or overcast just fine. If you also shoot with special lighting sources like fluorescent (which doesn't have a complete spectrum) or other non-standard lighting sources then do a profile for those special conditions. If you are creating a profile specifically for studio flash, you can get by doing only a single illuminate profile for the strobes...but in that case, the profile won't be as accurate if you also try to use it under tungsten–which would be the reason to do a dual illuminate profile.
As far as the D65 color temp, the closer you can get to it the better, but D55 should work fine. The key is to make sure it's evenly lit. The big difference between D65/D50/D55 is the relative amount of the blue light components-all three will be fairly close. Tungsten however has vastly less blue which can impact the sensor's spectral response–which is why the dual illuminate is suggested.
Once you do the CC shot, don't bother with tone/color corrections in ACR before converting to DNG. They won't have a material impact on the profile creation. The CC shot MUST be evenly lit and of an optimal exposure...
As far as where the profile goes, it depends on the system. Once you've created the profile, PE should default to the correct location, otherwise state your system and we can tell you where to put them.

How to make dual illuminant profile in DNG profile editor?

I have just started working with the DNG Profile Editor. In another discussion I commented on the clarity of the instructions provided by the tutorial. I had no difficulty creating a single illuminant profile using the X-Rite color checker passport. But when it came to producing a dual illuminant profile, following the instructions exactly, I was stymied.
1. Open dng image of Color Checker photographed in 6500K illumination.
2. Open dng image of Color Checker photographed in 2850K illumination.
3. Select Chart tab in editor.
At this point one is instructed to "Click the 6500 K-lit ColorChecker image window to select it."
But the 2850K lit image (last loaded) has replaced the 6500K image window (at step 2) and I can find no way to reopen the 6500 K lit image window in order to proceed to the next step.
As a matter of interest, why do these instructions suggest setting the pop-up window in the Chart Pane to "6500K only" and then create color table with first image. Thereafter select second image, set pop-up window to "2850K only" and create color table. I seems to me that, having loaded two images (even if I can only see the second image loaded) one should choose "both color tables" and then create color table. In fact I have tried this and it does produce a profile, but I have no way of determining if it is a correct dual illuminant profile.
Please help.

2. HYPERLINK "/people/MadManChan2000"MadManChan2000,
Oct 21, 2013 9:09 AM in reply to blumesan
Note that the "Both color tables" option always creates a single-illuminant profile. The "Both color tables" option means that the computed color corrections will be applied to both color tables (i.e., the color table for the first calibration illuminant, which is usually Standard Light A, and also the color table for the second calibration illuminant, which is usually D65).
After playing around with the Profile Editor for a while, and examining the results with dcpTool, I now understand (I hope) what Eric is saying. In his language a single-illuminant profile is one created from a single dng image using the "both color tables" option (without regard to the illuminant used to capture that image.) When one does this (using Adobe Standard as the base profile) an examination of the resulting profile with dcpTool shows the following:
Two illluminants are identified: 17 (Std A) and 21 (D65).
Color Matrix 1 & 2; Forward Matrix 1 & 2; Hue Sat Delta Tables 1 & 2.
Which certainly gives the impression of a dual illuminant profile to novices like myself. My guess is that the PE software itself applies a default assumption of these two illuminants, corrects the image for each illuminant and constructs two color tables, one for each illluminant. When used, the profile will interpolate between the two tables based on the white balance of the image being edited.
If this is indeed correct it makes me wonder in what way does such a profile differ from a dual illuminant profile created from two dng images, each captured under a different illuminant (2800K & 6500K) as described in Tutorial #6 of the PE instructions. These instructions contain the following description of such a dual illuminant profile: "The result is a single profile that performs well under a wide range of illuminants instead of a single fixed illuminant." Which really make me scratch my head. Should one conclude from this that a single illuminant profile (created using the "both color tables" option) will perform less well under a range of illuminants? Will it perform well only under a narrow range of illuminants centered around the illuminant used to capture the single image?
As a footnote, it is worth remarking that I (and perhaps others) have been confused by examining profiles created by the XRite software when using only a single dng image. Examining such a profile with dcpTool one sees the following structure:
One illuminant only #23 (D50)
A single Color Matrix table.
A single Hue Sat Delta Table.
Thus one comes to expect this structure in a single illuminant profile.
I would be very happy to see Eric's comments..

Where should DNG profile editor install the .dcp file?

Just made my first attempt to create a custom camera profile using the X-Rite color checker passport and the DNG Profile Editor.
Thanks to the excellent tutorial, the process went smoothly. Next I took the final step of exporting the profile (.dcp) file, expecting to find the new profile when I opened an image in ACR. Unfortunately the new profile was not listed in the Camera Profile dropdown menu.
After much searching I discovered that the profile was written to the folder containing the .dng images used to construct the profile. Obviously not where it belongs in order for ACR to find it. I assumed that "Export Profile" would automatically write the .dcp file to the proper location.
Where should the .dcp files be installed for Win7x64 running ACR 8.2.?
Is there a way to establish the proper location as the default in the Profile Editor?
Thanks for your help.

Custom-created .DCP profile files go into the following location under your Windows Users folder:
C:\Users\YourUserName\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\CameraRaw\CameraProfiles
The AppData folder is a hidden-system folder so you may need to turn on the viewing of those type of folders in your Explorer folder view options or just type \AppData into the folder address area and hit Enter once you get to your username folder.

Bug in DNG Profile Editor

I have been trying to use the DNG Profile Editor to create an inverted tone curve to import a color negative. I want to create an inverted linear tone curve when I convert the negative and use the downstream software to apply the appropriate camera curve. The issue I face can be replicated by doing these steps:
Go in to DNG Profile Editor. Tone curve tab, select "linear" for the base curve. If you create your own custom curve and export the .dcp file and read it in with the color tables external profile, you can see the curve you expected. It works as you expect for any curve even negative curves unless you select 'linear'. Then, if you repeat the same process except this time you draw an inverted custom tone curve (so the image goes to/from negative to positive) and export the .dcp curve and view it, the curve includes your inverted curve, but also includes the base curve (as though the 'base curve' menu had been selected)...which it should not include. It seems to be a very difficult if not impossible task to get an inverted linear line for the tone curve which makes it impossible to do any scientific measurements with a negative image.
I want to report this as a bug and request a fix.
Thanks.

Rob, I looked at the both a curve xmp file and a profile recipe that contained a custom tone curve with a text editor. The profile recipe has a lot of information and it's not easy to locate the tone curve data. I think it's easier at the present time to input the individual points in the tone curve tab of the DNG Profile Editor. Maybe Adobe will add this capability at some point.

Converting LUTs to Camera Profiles in the DNG Profile Editor

Hi,
I've just started using the DNG Profile Editor, and can't seem to get the process right.
I have some film LUTs that I'd like to convert to camera profiles for my 5D Mk II.
Here's how I'm trying to do it, maybe someone can help me figure out what I'm doing wrong.
This is what I tried first:
1. Take a Color Chart into Photoshop, apply the LUT via Color Lookup adjustment layer.
2. Save out as 16bit TIFF
3. Open as Camera Raw, then save out as DNG
4. Open the adjusted color chart into DNG Profile Editor, run it through the color chart section to create a recipe of color adjustments.
5. Export out as Camera Profile
But when I open up a 5D image in Lightroom, the profile doesn't show up in the list, so I realised maybe it needs to be saved specifically as a 5D profile, but I can't figure out how.
If I:
1. Do steps 1-4 as above
2. Open a 5D DNG file so that I can set a 5D profile as the base profile
3. Load the recipe
The color adjustments appear on the color wheel, but nothing happens to the 5D image, no colour change at all.
Exporting it (which does say 'Export as 5D profile') does then give me a profile that shows up in Lightroom, but it doesn't do anything to the image...
What's the correct way of doing this?
Thanks!
S

I don’t know claim to know anything about the internals of DNG Camera Profiles, but I’m pretty sure you cannot take a RGB-file (TIF/JPG) DNG and make a raw-file DNG Profile for use with your camera raws, which sounds like what you’re trying to do.
Despite looking like it might work in DNGPE, starting with an RGB-file recipe (rather than a RAW-file recipe) will only lock the specific colors on the color wheel, rather than create a raw-capable camera profile.

Adobe DNG Profile Editor

Has there been any update to this beyond that in 2008 found on Adobe Labs? (I want to try using it to calibrate ACR for my camera with a shot of a MacBeth Color Chart.)
To be more precise about this, I currently use ACR Calibrator to calibrate ACR for my Canon 1Ds II. I now see there is beta 3 of Adobe DNG Profile Editor but note that it utilises a small subset of the GMB Digital Colorchecker SG target chart.
ACR Calibrator seems to produce quite different results from Adobe DNG Profile Editor. I have followed the steps below when using the latter.
Download DNG Profile Editor and drag to Applications
Launch Photoshop and open the raw file of your macbeth target.
In camera raw, place all settings to zero, curve to linear and turn off any sharpening etc. Click Save Image, choose dng as the file format and save it.
Launch DNG Profile Editor.
File / Open DNG File and choose the dng file you saved previously.
Select the chart tab in DNG Profile Editor.
Move the colored circles to the center of the matching colored corner square in your raw file
Click Create Color Table.
Choose File/Export <Camera> profile... Give it a name and save.
Exit DNG Profile Editor.
Re-launch photoshop and open a raw file. In Camera Raw, on the calibration tab, you should now see the profile you just saved.

ssprengel wrote:
I don't know of any other references or CC Passport numbers other than what Google can come up with. Babelcolor has some standard-deviation of spectrum numbers for a sampling of 20 charts done in 2006 and also some worst-color vs average-color visual comparisons to get an idea of how variable charts or at least their measurements can be. Somewhere it says the me4asurements were done of the standard and also the minichart, mixed together, I assume. I don't know if there is a list of the raw data or not.
To understand the source of the variation you really need to see multiple measurements with the same instrument, with different instruments, and of different charts from different manufacturing runs and different ages and measured in different temperatures and humidities, otherwise it's not easy to say whether the variations we're seeing between the CC standard and the CC passport in the article are within the normal variations or not or if they represent a significant difference not explained by normal variations.
Yes, I know the Babelcolor data and I have already included them in the study.
Obviously I do not have the opportunity to have the information to get an overview of the real things, but by analyzing various measurements I saw that Myers had to be the closest to official data of the CC Passport and instead is the more distant. Hence my doubts about the measurement.
Thanks anyway.
Marco

DNG Profile editor and white balance

I am very happy to see the practical realization of the extentions announced in the DNG 1.2 specification. This is a great step forward to achieve wide acceptance of DNG.
While reading the User's Guide, I found following statement (in the Tutorial 1):
>3. (Optional) If the image is not already white-balanced, you can perform a click-WB using a context click
Why would one white balance here? What effect does that have on the result? The profile describes, which HSV will be converted in which HSV; this has nothing to do with the WB of a particular image.

The WB feature in the DNG Profile Editor (PE) is there because it is possible that you might open a DNG file in PE that has not already been white balanced. Imagine you photographed an image under tungsten lighting but had the in-camera WB manually set to daylight. If you didn't set the WB before converting the image to a DNG, it will appear very warm when you open it up in PE. So PE's WB feature is designed to save you time by letting you do a click-WB instead of having to go back to CR or LR to adjust the image's WB.
PE is named "profile editor" because it only edits profiles. It is not an image editor. So you are correct, you do not really need an image to edit profiles, technically. However, unless you have an image open you have no way to evaluate how good your adjustments are.
Typically the only reason to make a profile or edit a profile is if there's something about an existing profile that you're unhappy with. And you'd be unhappy because you'd have an example of a "problem" image, where the existing profile doesn't produce the result you want. That's the image you want to bring into the PE, so you can pick out the colors that are "wrong" and fix them.
Then ideally you would open many more images in PE just to verify that your adjustments generalize well.

I have downloaded DNG Profile Editor 1_0_4 and prepared a profile which I can not see in my Camera Raw 6.0 (I have photoshop CS5). Could you please give me an advice?

I have downloaded DNG Profile Editor 1_0_4 and prepared a profile which I can not see in my Camera Raw 6.0 (I have photoshop CS5). Could you please give me an advice?

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Remove Sophos
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DNG Profile Editor: Can't create profile from JPG file

Guys, could you tell me why DNG Profile Editor fails to create color table using 4 colored circles ? It says "Unable to check white balance using gray patches. Please use the four color circles to identify the four corner patches of the chart and try again" even though I places four circles properly (it works with DNG files shot with my Nikon D700).
I created this DNG file from JPG file by opening it in Camera Raw plugin and saving as DNG file. Original JPG was shot on camera of Samsun Galaxy S phone. I know I'm crazy but I want to have color profile for it All patches are properly exposed after slight correction of Exposure slider in Camera Raw.
I'm using latest beta3 build
Here is link to DNG and JPG file I'm trying to use
http://www.box.net/shared/4v2rzlzjfp
Thanks!

If you convert your JPG to a DNG can you change the profile to the one you computed from the other JPG you converted to a DNG?
Profiles are not for JPGs. Profiles are for RAW files that ACR supports. You can't (easily/ever) get a RAW file from your Galaxy S and Adobe doesn’t' support that RAW format even if you could.
To see if your profiling is working, you can used the ColorCheck module from a trial version of Imatest that you download from www.imatest.com and look at the color-error.
You can also try the Read_Color_CC24.jsx script from Rags-Gardner:
http://www.rags-int-inc.com/PhotoTechStuff/ColorCalibration/

Questions about DNG Profile Editor recipe code

I have been playing around with DNG Profile Editor. With a text editor I made the following recipe:
I have some questions:
1. Right now I have my control points at 60 saturation. Will using two points for each color (say 70 and 40) make my changes more consistent across darker and lighter shades of the specific color?
2. Does DNG Profile editor respect HueLow and HueHigh, are they just placeholder numbers, or are they ignored if two points are close to each other?
3. What does FeatherAdjust do? I'm guessing it controls the rate of drop off of the corrections. Is the value respected by DNG Profile editor when it creates a profile?
Thanks for your time and attention, -Bruce.

1. For now DNG-only. Here's why:
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles_FAQ#PEOnlyDNG
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles_FAQ#WhyNameDNGPE
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles_FAQ#WhyPESeparate
2. Standalone for now. See above links for why.
3. Use the 'Preview Color Changes' option in the Options menu.
4. You can use 'Apply Raw Adjustments' in the Options menu to see your raw adjustments. This is __not__ recommended for building a general-purpose profile because you are then optimizing a profile with specific image adjustments in mind, rather than building a profile based more on the inherent camera characteristics.
5. True, that is a limitation of this implementation.
6. I am not sure what you mean. The Chart Wizard automatically optimizes the color patches in a test shot based on reference values for many physical charts, which is more practically useful than the numbers printed on the reference card that comes with the chart.
7. Make sure you avoid color casts in the bottom row. The PE is picky about making sure your gray patches are relatively neutral. It is an attempt to help you get a better profile.
8. Use 'Show Affected Colors' from the Options menu.
You may wish to read this page carefully and thoroughly:
documentation
It is the reference online documentation for the DNG Profile Editor and a few of the things you wish to do, such as preview all color changes, apply raw adjustments, and visualize the extent of each color adjustment, are all documented there.

What kind of DNG file for DNG profile editor ?

Can somebody help me??? I have a problem to use DNG profile:
I am user of Fujifilm S5Pro, which has RAF file (=raw). The ACR (start from version 3...) and DNG understand my RAF files very well. But DNG profile editor dose not want to open it, even if Adobe DNG Converter 4.5 converts it to DNG file. My workflow is:
Launch Adobe DNG Converter.exe, => convert RAF to DNG (tryed different settings);
Launch DNG profile editor, => trying to open DNG file => have error???
May be I'm doing in a wrong way? Please advise me.

I tried to do the same on other PC with Vista (fully English). Also update DNG converter up to 4.6. And no success... :-(.
Every time I have the same error: "DNG Profile Editor could not open the selected image. Note that the selected image must be a valid DNG color image."
I could not understand... where is a bug.
Moreover, I took NEF from Nikon D80 and CR2 from Canon 20D and converted them to DNGs by converter 4.6. DNG Profile Editor did not want to open them on both Windows Vista and XP, and made the same error.
Do I really do wrong things? I'm completely lost
Thanks in advance,
Slava

Creative use of CC calibraton in the DNG Profile Editor

The DNG Profile Editor can be used to create profiles that mimic film looks.
I think right now it is manual trial & error process involving changes in hue, saturation and lightness, but it could be theoretically achieved with Color Checker calibration working in reversed order.
- Photograph the CC using your favorite film
- If B&W, develop in your favorite developer
- Scan the film
- Use the scan in the DNG Profile Editor as target values
The current DNG Profile Editor obviously does not allow that, it would require adding a new tab and clone the CC calibration feature and alter it to use the photographed values as target values as opposed to internal values.
I don't know if it would be worth the effort, but I thing the idea is worth of sharing.
By the way, unless I'm doing something wrong, the saturation slides don't seem to go 0%, so creation of B&W profiles is not possible.

Good idea. Yes, I've posted an example on my Flickr.
I chose a picture with good reds and yellows. There are four images in the set:
1. The original, untouched image. This is using the new Adobe Standard beta profile, brought into Lightroom with all default settings, including linear tone curve, no exposure or color adjustments, white balance "as shot", etc. For reference.
2. The image with my test profile applied, but no further adjustment.
3. My original attempt at the image, using the "old fashioned" pre-DNG-profiles raw processing method, for reference. The yellows are orangeish, which isn't that objectionable but also isn't accurate. The reds are weaker than I would like.
4. The "final" image, with my test profile plus additional tweaks -- white balance, tone curve for contrast, crushing out the blacks a bit more, etc. Two or three minutes of total processing, versus quite a bit more for the previous attempt with no "special" profile. The reds and yellows are perfect.
The Flickr set:
http://flickr.com/photos/100mph/sets/72157606547890574/
This was just a first, pretty quick attempt at playing with the DNG Profile Editor. I'm sure it can be tweaked more and even more can be accomplished.
[Edit: note: I changed the "upload date" on the test images so they wouldn't stay at the top of my Flickr page. Ignore the 2007 date, it doesn't mean anything.]

Camera Calibration in ACR & DNG Profile Editor

I am having the hardest time figuring out how to use the camera profiles generated with DNG Profile Editor in Camera Raw.
I am using Photoshop CS4 in Windows 7. I have generated the .dcp file with DNG Profile Editor and saved it in the folder: Program Files/Adobe/Photoshop CS4/Presets/Camera Profiles.
This is about as far as I've gotten. I have not been able use this profile in ACR under the Camera Calibration Tab. I have been lead to believe that is would show up automatically. I have not found any video tutorials related to ACR and installing Camera Profiles. They all seem to relate to Lightroom.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

If you would like to look or copy profiles manually (for example you have received a profile made by someone else; for Windows7 you should be able to see where the Profiles are stored by searching for *.dcp (meaning any file with the extension .dcp)
That will show you where the Adobe supplied profiles are located. You can copy your custom profiles to the sub-folder of your camera type in the Camera folder.The other folder you see is where the Adobe Standard profiles live.
If you cannot see the programdata folder (and that is the case by default) you can make all hidden files visible:
(this from Windows Help, just search for show hidden files)
Computer>Organize>Folder and search options>View. In Advanced settings check the radio button Show hidden files, folders, and drives and then OK
Now you should see the programdata folder visible under your system (C:) folder
I hope that helps.

Adobe DNG profile editor bug w/ GH2 files where aspect ratio is not 4:3

Hi,
posting here as Adobe DNG subforum is essentially dead
Panasonic GH2, select aspect ratio 3:2, get .RW2 raw file, convert it to .DNG using Adobe DNG converter (6.4.0.121 beta), try to open w/ Adobe DNG profile editor (1.0.0.39 beta 2) -> error message "DNG Profile Editor could not open the selected image. Note that the selected image must be a valid DNG color image".
XRite software has no issues to process the same .DNG file (converted from the original .RW2 w/ 3:2 aspect ratio).

Eric - just make it easier for you to reproduce the bug - here is the original .RW2 file (certainly ignore the quality of colorchecker shot in terms of how the target is lit, etc - it was not to make a profile actually - it was to illustrate the bug in question) = http://www.box.net/shared/f419prmuo2 ... and I am uploading the converted .DNG file too just in case = http://www.box.net/shared/gy5o9zzi57

DNG Profile Editor step-by-step usage

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