DNG profiles, Calibration tab vs. HLS

Cross post (asked on the DNG forum but there isn’t much activity so forgive me)
X-Rite and Adobe have provisions for creating custom DNG profiles. DataColor just announced a product that appears to operate like these two but instead of making DNG profiles (or as we had in the old days, altering the Calibration Tab), updates the HSL controls. My understanding is that DNG profiles and the Calibration tab operate in a different order of the processing, prior to all the sliders above them. My understanding is there are benefits for doing this but I’d like to know more about this. The question is, what are the practical implications of “calibrating” via a target that affects HSL sliders instead of producing a DNG profile, or at the very least, altering the calibration sliders? Eric you out there bud?

thedigitaldog wrote:
The question is, what are the practical implications of “calibrating” via a target that affects HSL sliders instead of producing a DNG profile, or at the very least, altering the calibration sliders? Eric you out there bud?
I'm not Eric (not sure he would want to respond to this question) but I'll take a stab...first off, let me state that I haven't personally tested either the SyderCHECKR PRO color target or the software. I've only watched the video and read the user manual. But I do have some issues regarding usability and the "practical implications" of using the HSL Sliders vs a DNG profile.
There is one major implication–the SpyderCheckr produces a preset using the HSL adjustments rather than a DNG profile. I have no understanding (and haven't heard the rational) why Datacolor chose a Lightroom or Camera Raw preset instead of a DNG profile. But the first problem with creating "presets" is Lightroom and Camera Raw don't share "presets". So, unlike a DNG profile which will work in both Lightroom AND Camera Raw, the Spyder solution is application specific. The other major issue is that presets are not easily transportable compared to DNG profiles which actually get imbedded in a raw file. I have no reason to suspect that the HSL adjustments of Lightroom and Camera Raw CAN'T handle the color corrections needed for calibration, but the fact that the calibration depends on a "presets" limits its usefulness.
What is also not mentioned in the videos nor the manual is what the user is supposed to do regarding the starting DNG profile. Does Datacolor suggest using Adobe Standard or some other DNG profile? I ask because the HSL calibration applied as a preset depends upon the DNG profile used to create the color sample file and adding a calibration on top of an existing DNG profile seems to complicate the whole calibration process. When using DNG profiles, it's pretty straightforward what the DNG profile creation is actually doing. Adding an HSL adjustment on top of an existing DNG profile adds complexity to the process and reduces the portability of the camera calibration.
The documentation seems to imply that both DNG Profile Editor and X-Rite's Passport solution somehow limits the end user's ability to make further adjustments. I think this is false...while you can't currently edit the resulting Passport generated DNG profile in X-Rite's software, you can indeed edit the resulting Passport generated DNG profile in Adobe's free DNG Profile Editor. You can edit the preset that SpyderCheckr creates in either Lightroom or Camera Raw, but you are editing an absolute preset that applies HSL adjustments requiring the saving out of a new subset of HSL adjustments-and again presets are not interchangeable between Lightroom and Camera Raw. I see this as a very limiting factor.
In principal, I encourage the development of more and better solutions for both Lightroom and Camera Raw. Whether or not the HSL calibration approach is superior to the DNG profile calibration approach, I really wonder whether or not HSL is a better solution than the DNG profile approach. It seems to me that Adobe (and Thomas Knoll and Eric Chan) have spent a lot of time and effort to develop an open solution to camera calibration that the SpyderCHECKR approach is ignoring. Personally, I would have encouraged the option to create either a DNG profile _OR_ an HSL calibration preset. I think it's a mistake to ignore the DNG profile approach.

Similar Messages

DNG profiles, Calibration tab and HLS

X-Rite and Adobe have provisions for creating custom DNG profiles. DataColor just announced a product that appears to operate like these two but instead of making DNG profiles (or as we had in the old days, altering the Calibration Tab), updates the HSL controls. My understanding is that DNG profiles and the Calibration tab operate in a different order of the processing, prior to all the sliders above them. My understanding is there are benefits for doing this but I’d like to know more about this. The question is, what are the practical implications of “calibrating” via a target that affects HSL sliders instead of producing a DNG profile, or at the very least, altering the calibration sliders? Eric you out there bud?

Andrew,
Eric is very active in the ACR forum, including in the last 24 hours, and there's no way he'd be ignoring you if he had read this post of yours.
My impression is that this DNG forum has been neglected if not outright abandoned. Just look at the obsolete and mistyped "announcement" at the top of the index page.
I would suggest posting in the ACR forum instead.
Wo Tai Lao Le
我太老了

Camera Calibration in ACR & DNG Profile Editor

I am having the hardest time figuring out how to use the camera profiles generated with DNG Profile Editor in Camera Raw.
I am using Photoshop CS4 in Windows 7. I have generated the .dcp file with DNG Profile Editor and saved it in the folder: Program Files/Adobe/Photoshop CS4/Presets/Camera Profiles.
This is about as far as I've gotten. I have not been able use this profile in ACR under the Camera Calibration Tab. I have been lead to believe that is would show up automatically. I have not found any video tutorials related to ACR and installing Camera Profiles. They all seem to relate to Lightroom.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

If you would like to look or copy profiles manually (for example you have received a profile made by someone else; for Windows7 you should be able to see where the Profiles are stored by searching for *.dcp (meaning any file with the extension .dcp)
That will show you where the Adobe supplied profiles are located. You can copy your custom profiles to the sub-folder of your camera type in the Camera folder.The other folder you see is where the Adobe Standard profiles live.
If you cannot see the programdata folder (and that is the case by default) you can make all hidden files visible:
(this from Windows Help, just search for show hidden files)
Computer>Organize>Folder and search options>View. In Advanced settings check the radio button Show hidden files, folders, and drives and then OK
Now you should see the programdata folder visible under your system (C:) folder
I hope that helps.

X-rite colorchecker passport profile created but does not appear in the Camera Calibration tab!

I have installed x-rite colorchecker passport and lightroom 5.0. I followed the tutorial in setting up my camera profile and lightroom reported created successfully. However after restarting Lightroom, I could not find my created profile other than the Adobe Standard in the Camera Calibration tab.
Please help !

X-Rite has a free DNG Profile Manager that can be downlaoded after registering your ColorChecker Passport here:
http://www.xritephoto.com/ph_registration.aspx
You will be offered a link to download the free app. See if the profile you created is visible with the app.
Here's where the user camera profiles should be located with LR5:
Windows—C: \ Users \ [your username] \ AppData \ Roaming \ Adobe \ CameraRaw \ CameraProfiles \
Mac—Macintosh HD / Users / [your username] / Library / Application Support / Adobe / CameraRaw / CameraProfiles /
Profiles are camera model specific so a Canon 600D camera profile will only be visible when a 600D raw image file is selected. You need to create profiles for each camera model separately.

DNG Profiles and the ACR Calibrator

In the past the Fors ACR Calibrator (and the manual procedure conceived by Bruce Fraser) was required to account for production differences between instances of the same camera model. If I wish to use the new Adobe Standard Profiles, should I then rerun the Calibrator? I realize I will have to update the code to handle the new ACR version number - I already did this for 4.4.1.

Thanks for the nice feedback, Bill.
To clarify the point brought up by you and Richard: there are two basic ways to use the chart wizard feature.
First, you can use it to build a profile optimized for one lighting condition. This is the more familiar case, esp. to those of you who have used the CR calibration scripts in the past. This mode is described in Tutorial 5, and is enabled by choosing the 'Both Color Tables' option from the popup in the Chart tab. What happens here is that a single set of color lookup table adjustments is created, which is applied regardless of the white balance of the image. You can use any illuminant when photographing the ColorChecker; doesn't have to be illuminant A or D65. Such a profile will work pretty well as long as your real images don't stray too far spectrally from the illuminant you used to shoot the CC.
Second, you can use it to build a more general profile as described in tutorial 6, but you would need to shoot the CC in conditions as close as you can get to A and D65 for best results. (~D50 or ~D55 lighting as a substitute for D65 should work pretty well.) The DNG 1.2 profile format actually allows the two illuminants to be different than A and D65, but currently the DNG Profile Editor's chart wizard feature only supports these two.
Bill, you should be able to shoot the checker in the manner you describe (i.e., under noon sunlight on a blue sky day, and also under the incandescent bulb) and have it work well.
When I was testing this, I used a standard household incandescent (very close to illuminant A; I was curious and measured it with an Eye-One spectro) and then tried various flavors of daylight (including Solux bulbs, which aren't that close to D65) for the D65 "half" of the profile. The daylight portion didn't make that much difference.

What does "Camera Profile" mean in the Camera Calibration tab in PSE 12?

I recently made the switch to edit exclusively in Photoshop Elements 12. I need help understanding what I need to select for the "Camera Profile" drop down in the Camera Calibration tab. I shoot with a Canon Mark II. Will the camera profile selection affect my prints at all? First, what does the camera profile mean? I go back and forth between Adobe Standard and Camera Standard. Sometimes I get truer color with Camera Standard than the Adobe Standard for my outside photos. I'm so confused as to which one I should be editing with. I just want to be sure this is not going to affect my prints because I just recently ordered a print from Millers and it was saturated, shadowing and skin had orange tone. I have never had a problem with my calibration and have always ordered from Millers with no problem. This is the first print I ordered after editing exclusively with PSE 12 so I'm wondering if I have setting wrong. Thanks so much!

Will the camera profile selection affect my prints at all?
It will affect prints to the same extent that it affects the monitor display, but no more than that. The differences that you see in color rendering when switching between profiles will be embodied in the jpg that you eventually make for sending to the print lab, but will not in itself cause the discrepancies you describe.

Camera Raw Camera Calibration Tab and 5D Mark III

I don't think that many people do this in camera raw, but it was kind of an important step in my workflow with the Canon 7D before and is just not working the same way with the 5D Mark III now.
In the Camera Calibration Tab (Third from the right side) I always changed Camera Profile from Adobe Standard to Camera Standard or Camera Portrait. This step made the image automatically look better, contrast was better and the highlights look a lot better that way. Of course the "Camera Portrait" option makes the image a lil bit red, like the Picture Style in the camera does. But it was an easy adjustment with the Hue Slider of the Red Channel. Like I already said - really great improvement of the image on the 7D raw files, beautiful highlights, shiny, contrasty and so on... Same stuff worked with 5D Mark II perfectly, too.
Now with the 5D Mark III the "Camera Portrait" option, my favourite one, gets me pretty bad results. The Image is too strong oversaturated, too much red in the skintones and in the shadows, too! Shadow contrast gets worse and I can't control this settings the way I did before with the hue/saturation sliders of the channels. It's too extreme red or it's too yellow, but not something right between this extremes. And the highlights get some green tint, so it's no real optimization of the image overall quality at all, like with the other cameras. I don't know if the support of the 5DMIII is still not up to date... It is not only my camera, I also have asked other photographers with a 5D Mark III and they have the same issues changing the camera profile. Lightroom has exactly the same effect... It would be great, if an Adobe Employee can forward this issues, so that it gets tweaked with the further updates and 5dm3 will work the same way in camera raw like mark 2 or 7D.
Sorry for my bad english

Yes, white balance is another possible reason for mismatch
These rules apply:
- if you use white balance "as shot", then white balance in ACR will be the same as from camera or DPP (in a sense - what is white color in ACR will be white in DPP also). However, color temperature/tint shown in ACR will be probably slightly different than value recorded in exif of jpeg or raw file. It's because in that case, whitebalancing is performed using some metadata in raw file by both ACR or DPP, while temperature displayed in ACR is calculated from that metadat using color matrices in selected profile, according to a formula from one book (as documented in dng sdk), while DPP is probably using some other formula or slightly different color matrices
- the same will happen if you use WB dropper on exactly the same position in the photo by both ACR and DPP
- but, if you use the same temperature preset in ACR and DPP (for instance 5200 K), then white in ACR and DPP will probably be a bit different, because whitebalancing is performed in oposite direction now (ACR calculates RGB multipliers from that temperature and using color matrices in the profile)
I hope this was understandable, although it's a bit complicated

Creative use of CC calibraton in the DNG Profile Editor

The DNG Profile Editor can be used to create profiles that mimic film looks.
I think right now it is manual trial & error process involving changes in hue, saturation and lightness, but it could be theoretically achieved with Color Checker calibration working in reversed order.
- Photograph the CC using your favorite film
- If B&W, develop in your favorite developer
- Scan the film
- Use the scan in the DNG Profile Editor as target values
The current DNG Profile Editor obviously does not allow that, it would require adding a new tab and clone the CC calibration feature and alter it to use the photographed values as target values as opposed to internal values.
I don't know if it would be worth the effort, but I thing the idea is worth of sharing.
By the way, unless I'm doing something wrong, the saturation slides don't seem to go 0%, so creation of B&W profiles is not possible.

Good idea. Yes, I've posted an example on my Flickr.
I chose a picture with good reds and yellows. There are four images in the set:
1. The original, untouched image. This is using the new Adobe Standard beta profile, brought into Lightroom with all default settings, including linear tone curve, no exposure or color adjustments, white balance "as shot", etc. For reference.
2. The image with my test profile applied, but no further adjustment.
3. My original attempt at the image, using the "old fashioned" pre-DNG-profiles raw processing method, for reference. The yellows are orangeish, which isn't that objectionable but also isn't accurate. The reds are weaker than I would like.
4. The "final" image, with my test profile plus additional tweaks -- white balance, tone curve for contrast, crushing out the blacks a bit more, etc. Two or three minutes of total processing, versus quite a bit more for the previous attempt with no "special" profile. The reds and yellows are perfect.
The Flickr set:
http://flickr.com/photos/100mph/sets/72157606547890574/
This was just a first, pretty quick attempt at playing with the DNG Profile Editor. I'm sure it can be tweaked more and even more can be accomplished.
[Edit: note: I changed the "upload date" on the test images so they wouldn't stay at the top of my Flickr page. Ignore the 2007 date, it doesn't mean anything.]

How to make dual illuminant profile in DNG profile editor?

I have just started working with the DNG Profile Editor. In another discussion I commented on the clarity of the instructions provided by the tutorial. I had no difficulty creating a single illuminant profile using the X-Rite color checker passport. But when it came to producing a dual illuminant profile, following the instructions exactly, I was stymied.
1. Open dng image of Color Checker photographed in 6500K illumination.
2. Open dng image of Color Checker photographed in 2850K illumination.
3. Select Chart tab in editor.
At this point one is instructed to "Click the 6500 K-lit ColorChecker image window to select it."
But the 2850K lit image (last loaded) has replaced the 6500K image window (at step 2) and I can find no way to reopen the 6500 K lit image window in order to proceed to the next step.
As a matter of interest, why do these instructions suggest setting the pop-up window in the Chart Pane to "6500K only" and then create color table with first image. Thereafter select second image, set pop-up window to "2850K only" and create color table. I seems to me that, having loaded two images (even if I can only see the second image loaded) one should choose "both color tables" and then create color table. In fact I have tried this and it does produce a profile, but I have no way of determining if it is a correct dual illuminant profile.
Please help.

2. HYPERLINK "/people/MadManChan2000"MadManChan2000,
Oct 21, 2013 9:09 AM in reply to blumesan
Note that the "Both color tables" option always creates a single-illuminant profile. The "Both color tables" option means that the computed color corrections will be applied to both color tables (i.e., the color table for the first calibration illuminant, which is usually Standard Light A, and also the color table for the second calibration illuminant, which is usually D65).
After playing around with the Profile Editor for a while, and examining the results with dcpTool, I now understand (I hope) what Eric is saying. In his language a single-illuminant profile is one created from a single dng image using the "both color tables" option (without regard to the illuminant used to capture that image.) When one does this (using Adobe Standard as the base profile) an examination of the resulting profile with dcpTool shows the following:
Two illluminants are identified: 17 (Std A) and 21 (D65).
Color Matrix 1 & 2; Forward Matrix 1 & 2; Hue Sat Delta Tables 1 & 2.
Which certainly gives the impression of a dual illuminant profile to novices like myself. My guess is that the PE software itself applies a default assumption of these two illuminants, corrects the image for each illuminant and constructs two color tables, one for each illluminant. When used, the profile will interpolate between the two tables based on the white balance of the image being edited.
If this is indeed correct it makes me wonder in what way does such a profile differ from a dual illuminant profile created from two dng images, each captured under a different illuminant (2800K & 6500K) as described in Tutorial #6 of the PE instructions. These instructions contain the following description of such a dual illuminant profile: "The result is a single profile that performs well under a wide range of illuminants instead of a single fixed illuminant." Which really make me scratch my head. Should one conclude from this that a single illuminant profile (created using the "both color tables" option) will perform less well under a range of illuminants? Will it perform well only under a narrow range of illuminants centered around the illuminant used to capture the single image?
As a footnote, it is worth remarking that I (and perhaps others) have been confused by examining profiles created by the XRite software when using only a single dng image. Examining such a profile with dcpTool one sees the following structure:
One illuminant only #23 (D50)
A single Color Matrix table.
A single Hue Sat Delta Table.
Thus one comes to expect this structure in a single illuminant profile.
I would be very happy to see Eric's comments..

DNG profile editor

A couple of questions about DNG Profile Editor:
1-I know Lab values on my ColorChecker (measured with an EyeOne 2° D50). I shooted it with a Nikon D80 and I want to tweak one of the new Camera Raw profiles to match those values or to go closer. I see that changing the base profile (popup menu in Color Tables Pane) the image appearence changes a lot but the Lab numbers readout doesn't. I followed the tutorial on the Adobe site but I can't figure out how to make the camera calibration without having a numeric value, before and after, to look at. The tutorial tells that you may 'adjust the selected color via the Hue, Saturation and Lightness slider and you will see the preview in real-time'. That's true but does it means that is a sort of 'visual calibration'? Is there a way to tweak colors by the Lab numbers in order to have the best match from original Lab values in input (on the target) and Lab values in output (in a ProPhoto rendered image)?
2- When I create a Color Table from my ColorChecker it appears that in the Color Tables colors are already (and automatically) changed. Does it work like the ACR Calibration Scripts that way? And is it possible to change the reference Lab values (ColorCheckers are different in color values) as it was with a simple ACR script's editing?
Giuseppe Andretta

Eric,
Before starting, I want to say that I had cataract surgery last month. The vision improvement was almost instantaneous and dramatic. I can now state that color differences in individuals can be much greater than expected. It is hard to express how big the difference is in my own vision, let alone between two other individuals. Any color assessment tools must accommodate numeric as well as visual comparisons. That said, the healing process has also affected how much time I can spend comfortably in front of my screen. I hope my comments will be taken constructively.
As others have commented, I also feel that the CC24 Lab target values being used should be documented. Published values from Gretag, Lindbloom, Babbage, and others disagree. Without the target numbers it is difficult to determine accurately the calibration result.
My first attempt seemed to go smoothly, but when I verified the results with ReadColors.jsx (my script) the numbers degraded slightly. I was using the Gretag target values, so these may not be what Adobe is using. Also, I had already calibrated ACR for my D3. The doc seemed to imply that the ACR tabs would all default to zero and that was what displayed in the Color Matrices panel. But that was not what showed in the ACR panel. So I tried again, setting all ACR sliders to zero. This calibration attempt was a disaster, numerically and visually. Now I am confused. What is the relationship between these and what are the recommended user actions? In each case, I exported the DNG profile and selected it subsequently in ACR to re-open the image.
Next, I played with the Color Tables panel. I set a watchpoint on the blue patch. As long as I hold the eyedropper over the blue patch the Lab (and other numbers) track. But as soon as I move the mouse to the sliders, the numbers disappear. If I move the hue and saturation sliders the image and the patch sample both change. And, yes a little arrow shows in the color wheel. But after moving the eyedropper back, none of the numbers have changed. The lightness slider is even more bizarre. Obviously no arrow (z-axis) but the image brightens and darkens (OK), without any corresponding change in the patch sample (watchpoint) on the right (not OK). And again, no change in the numbers at all. It would be very helpful if the target values were shown here and if the currently selected watchpoint that would track the numeric changes. It would also be nice if the watchpoint could show the target color as well as the initial and changed image patch colors.
I dont understand the purpose of the Tone Curves. I understand gamma and Adobe linear, but these do not correlate to the ACR tone curves. And again the image changes but the numbers do not. Since we cannot set watchpoints in the neutral patches it is very difficult to assess any changes the user might make.
Next, I used the Chart panel to Create Color Table. When I return to the Color Tables panel, there are the 18 color (no neutral) watchpoints. I can see that blue has changed in the watch point and the arrow in the color wheel. But the numbers are still the same as before. Scrolling through the watch points I can also see that the hue and saturation sliders have changed. But the lightness slider did not change in any of the color patches. I anticipated that this would be the major improvement over the ACR sliders. Is this just not in the calibration algorithms yet?
This is a good start, but until I know what the target values are and what I should be doing about the existing ACR slider settings, I am at a stopping point.
Cheers, Rags :-)

Adobe DNG Profile Editor

Has there been any update to this beyond that in 2008 found on Adobe Labs? (I want to try using it to calibrate ACR for my camera with a shot of a MacBeth Color Chart.)
To be more precise about this, I currently use ACR Calibrator to calibrate ACR for my Canon 1Ds II. I now see there is beta 3 of Adobe DNG Profile Editor but note that it utilises a small subset of the GMB Digital Colorchecker SG target chart.
ACR Calibrator seems to produce quite different results from Adobe DNG Profile Editor. I have followed the steps below when using the latter.
Download DNG Profile Editor and drag to Applications
Launch Photoshop and open the raw file of your macbeth target.
In camera raw, place all settings to zero, curve to linear and turn off any sharpening etc. Click Save Image, choose dng as the file format and save it.
Launch DNG Profile Editor.
File / Open DNG File and choose the dng file you saved previously.
Select the chart tab in DNG Profile Editor.
Move the colored circles to the center of the matching colored corner square in your raw file
Click Create Color Table.
Choose File/Export <Camera> profile... Give it a name and save.
Exit DNG Profile Editor.
Re-launch photoshop and open a raw file. In Camera Raw, on the calibration tab, you should now see the profile you just saved.

ssprengel wrote:
I don't know of any other references or CC Passport numbers other than what Google can come up with. Babelcolor has some standard-deviation of spectrum numbers for a sampling of 20 charts done in 2006 and also some worst-color vs average-color visual comparisons to get an idea of how variable charts or at least their measurements can be. Somewhere it says the me4asurements were done of the standard and also the minichart, mixed together, I assume. I don't know if there is a list of the raw data or not.
To understand the source of the variation you really need to see multiple measurements with the same instrument, with different instruments, and of different charts from different manufacturing runs and different ages and measured in different temperatures and humidities, otherwise it's not easy to say whether the variations we're seeing between the CC standard and the CC passport in the article are within the normal variations or not or if they represent a significant difference not explained by normal variations.
Yes, I know the Babelcolor data and I have already included them in the study.
Obviously I do not have the opportunity to have the information to get an overview of the real things, but by analyzing various measurements I saw that Myers had to be the closest to official data of the CC Passport and instead is the more distant. Hence my doubts about the measurement.
Thanks anyway.
Marco

Camera calibration tab and camera color space

Hi, I need a confirmation about the hue and saturation sliders on the camera calibration tab. They are there for fine tuning the camera color space primaries in a DNG profile? Thanks a lot.

Hello, here I'm again.
I'm probably in the wrong forum, because I can't tell you anything about the DNG secrets
(though I have the specs).
About your second question (more an issue for a color science forum), I've found something:
Estimation of the primaries for a digital camera:
Please refer to these docs:
(1)
Concerning the Calculation of the Color Gamut in a Digital Camera
Francisco Martínez-Verdú et al.
http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CEMQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F %2Frua.ua.es%2Fdspace%2Fbitstream%2F10045%2F973%2F1%2Fproof_final.pdf&ei=uL8UU8-dKYO9ygORs IKADQ&usg=AFQjCNGKNGHQZJoHu_dc2JwQwtLXOpsTBQ&bvm=bv.61965928,d.bGQ&cad=rja
(2)
http://docs-hoffmann.de/leastsqu16112006.pdf
Given is an equation
(*) X = C R
We have two applications:
(1) Original question
X = Matrix X1 X2 ... Xm
                Y1 Y2 ... Ym
                 Z1 Z2 ... Zm
m=41 values in each row for CIE CMFs (color matching functions) 380nm...780nm
R = Matrix R1 R2 ... Rm
                 G1 G2 ... Gm
                 B1 B2 ... Bm
41 values in each row for the sensor sensitivities for red, green and blue CCD array elements
Matrix C is found by solving equation (*), using the pseudoinverse.
Matrix C contains the XYZ-coordinates of the primaries red, green, blue as columns 1, 2 and 3.
(2) About the mathematics
X = Matrix X1 X2 ... Xm
                 Y1 Y2 ... Ym
                 Z1 Z2 ... Zm
m=24 values for the GretagMacbeth ColorChecker
R = Matrix R1 R2 ... Rm
                  G1 G2 ... Gm
                  B1 B2 ... Bm
24 values in each row for the RGB results als delivered by the camera, for instance in sRGB.
Matrix C contains the XYZ-coordinates of the effective primaries(including sRGB) red, green, blue as columns.
(2) explains the principle of the pseudoinverse for overdetermined systems of linear equations.
(1) explains the application for the identification of camera primaries for given sensor sensitivities.
Unfortunately, the whole concept will fail, if the camera sensor sensitivities (CMFs) are not
linear combinations of the CIE CMFs x-bar, y-bar, z-bar. In this case, a camera does not have
primaries, but the computational result can be used as an approximation.
CMF = color matching function (CIE)
I regret –it cannot be explained 'for the layman'.
Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann

DNG Profile Editor - questions about

0) Thank to Eric Chan for your work on this. Until now I used the Camera Calibration process through Photoshop and Camera Calibration table. But I see this as a big progress.
1) Will it stay only DNG editor or it will be also for raw pictures without a necessity to convert them to dng?
2) Will it be only stand alone aplication or as well a part of the LR?
3) Now I can switched off and on one color change (by the left mark in the Color List Box). Could it be possible to switch off and on the whole Color List Box to see all done changes?
4) I have red your comment that this tool doesn't work with lightness, only hue and saturation. But if I want to work on a specific picture (i.e. a man wearing a red sweater), it will be fine to have it in the brightness close to an end picture. Will it be possible to open a picture not only with WB, but also with exposure, blacks and other basic development setting?
5) Under the eye drop tool, I can see numbers of "initial" or "starting" color. But I can't see the numbers of changed color. It would be fine if I know the new numbers to see how close I am to them. It would be fine if the number over the color List Box will be also for starting color and also for end colors.
And one little proposal: if the color will not change, show in Color List Box only the starting (left) half of a color. Than I can simply see that I didn't set a new color or the color stay exactly the same (it is only a question if exactly the same or very close to the same).
6) It could be, that I will not use the exact color checker table for what you did process on the tab Chart. But many of color checker are delivered with exact numbers and picture on a cd, so it will be fine if I could open this "master" picture of a checker producer in a right panel under the Color List Box and simply take from it the end colors. First go to the main picture on left, choose the "initial color" and then simply go to this "master" picture in right and take the "end color". What do you think about this?
7) If I work on the tab Chart, I get the error window "not neutral gray patches, row 4 culumn 1". But if I move the circle to row 4 culumn 2 it works fine. Is there any difference or problem?
8) And last: how far is acting the shift of color. It will not work only for the one color but close surroundings will be also efeccted. How smal or large is the surroundings? E.g. if we take 360 degres for hue.
Tom

1. For now DNG-only. Here's why:
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles_FAQ#PEOnlyDNG
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles_FAQ#WhyNameDNGPE
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles_FAQ#WhyPESeparate
2. Standalone for now. See above links for why.
3. Use the 'Preview Color Changes' option in the Options menu.
4. You can use 'Apply Raw Adjustments' in the Options menu to see your raw adjustments. This is __not__ recommended for building a general-purpose profile because you are then optimizing a profile with specific image adjustments in mind, rather than building a profile based more on the inherent camera characteristics.
5. True, that is a limitation of this implementation.
6. I am not sure what you mean. The Chart Wizard automatically optimizes the color patches in a test shot based on reference values for many physical charts, which is more practically useful than the numbers printed on the reference card that comes with the chart.
7. Make sure you avoid color casts in the bottom row. The PE is picky about making sure your gray patches are relatively neutral. It is an attempt to help you get a better profile.
8. Use 'Show Affected Colors' from the Options menu.
You may wish to read this page carefully and thoroughly:
documentation
It is the reference online documentation for the DNG Profile Editor and a few of the things you wish to do, such as preview all color changes, apply raw adjustments, and visualize the extent of each color adjustment, are all documented there.

Lightroom Camera Calibration tab

I use an iMac. I have Creative Cloud, Lightroom and Photoshop CC. I use a Panasonic DMC GH3 but using Panasonic RAW files, RW2 format, I can not see any camera presets, Natural, Vivid etc, under the Camera Calibration tab, just Adobe Standard. The camera is allegedly supported by Camera RAW but I can’t get beyond Adobe Standard, can anyone help please.
Thanks in advance
Jeff Hodgson

jeffnsue wrote:
Thanks very much, I guess it’s too much to expect Adobe to cater for all the minority brands at specific camera level. At least from what you say my “adobe Standard’ is specific to my camera, or perhaps specific to panasonic in general
Jeff Hodgson
Note you can build your own if you own a MacBeth 24 patch target or the newer (and more useful) X-rite Passport target.
http://xritephoto.com/ph_product_overview.aspx?id=1257
Or you can edit an existing profile to get that 'vivid' or similar 'look' using the free Adobe DNG camera profile editor.
Adobe - DNG Profile Editor : For Macintosh : DNG Profile Editor 1.0.4

Simulating DNG Profile changes in PSD file

Hello everyone,
I have a RAW file and applied Adobe's default DNG Profile (via the Camera Calibration panel in Lightroom 2.6) and converted it to a PSD file so I can retouch the photo via Photoshop CS3.
After hours of retouching, I now want to apply a custom DNG Profile that I made from a Color Checker. However, I'm not able to apply the profile to "already-rendered images" (http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles:FAQ#WhyOnlyEmbedded)
So my question is: Is there any way to simulate the effects of a profile change via Photoshop adjustments (i.e. HUE/SAT adjustments)?
Please feel free to let me know if more clarification is needed.
Thanks,
David

I thought I'd posted a reply but I failed to make it stick, somehow. Anyway, thanks Jim for that. Makes perfect sense.
Except I've just had a further thought. Why would Adobe change a file name to distinguish between color spaces if DNGs/RAWs are color-space agnostic? Where it would make sense is with jpegs, but name-changing doesn't happen there, of course, as there's no conversion taking place.

DNG profiles, Calibration tab vs. HLS

Similar Messages

Maybe you are looking for