DNG Question

I attempt to answer questions on the Bridge Forum. Several users are now asking about getting the latest DNG so they can use on their new cameras. If you have CS3 or even 4 and want the latest how do you do that? I have never done this but the web search referers to ACR and DNG converter. As if thery are in the same package.
Since ACR 6.x only works on CS5 if you download it will it not put it in the usual ACR plug in spot, rendering camera raw uselesss?
How do you just download and use the latest DNG converter on older versions of PS?
A web search did not provide any quick answers, or sorry if this is a rudundant question.

b_gossweiler wrote:
The program is written into C:\Program Files on WinXP and a shortcut is created in the start menu. I wouldn't know the location on Mac.
Because the Adobe DNG Converter is a stand-alone application that needs no version of Photoshop at all to work, on the Mac you can put it anywhere you desire or feel like. It simply converts your raw files into raw DNGs.
Common sense tells us to put it in the root Applications folder, where we can easily find it among all other applications that we have installed on our machine. One can always put an alias in the Dock.
On the Mac, if you launch the Adobe DNG Converter you have to point it to a folder, not individual files, as individual files will be grayed out in the open dialog box. But you can open (convert) individual files by dropping their icons onto the DNG Converter's icon in the Finder.
Wo Tai Lao Le
我太老了

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CS6 Bridge & .DNG questions

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am I missing step? ACR8.3 & TIF process all work AFAICT...
I've read about CS2-CS6 conflict, what is latest on how to overcome?
I shoot RX10 RAWs, Sony .ARW doesn't offer text fields.
.DNG offers several, including Description field -- I want my RAWs captioned.
(& am assuming .DNG field will transfer to TIF Description field upon conversion)
But what, if anything, do I lose by converting .ARW to .DNG & keeping only .DNG...?
(use of rather lousy Sony converter, I assume; what else?)

> In Bridge, hover your mouse on the right of those truncated texts, the cursor will change to a double arrow that will let you expand the descriptions.
Thanks! Yes, I soon discovered that I needed to expand column rather than just window...

DNG question: Exporting develop histoppry in LR 2.2

I want to be able to send the original imported .dng along with the edit history to another person.
Is there any way to edit a .dng and transfer the image and the edit history to another computer image by image?
Jay Gould

Hi, In the Catalog that was created is a copy of the image.
The process created a parent folder and put into the parent folder/root folder a folder with the original catalog name and the single image contained therein, a second folder entitled "catalog name" Previews.Irdata, and a file named "catalog name".ircat.
Since the image is in the parent folder do you believe I need to send another copy of the image along with the parent folder?
Thanks, Jay

Changing old JPG originals to DNG

I've read where it is a good idea to change the RAW to DNG. I've also heard some discussions on why it would be a good idea to have all your originals transformed to DNG's as well. Of course it will take up a lot more room.
Most of my originals are JPG from before taking RAW. The RAW have been changed.
What are your thoughts on changing all the JPG originals to DNG? I have a lot of originals so it would take some time, but not an impossible project.
Thanks, Sue

>THere is another thread that covers this extensively.
Can you point to it Don? I haven't found any discussion of the JPG to DNG question. My feeling is that on the one hand it keeps everything neet and tidy (no sidecars) but on the other habd the overhead from larger DNG file size is huge.

Advice on Nikon D200 Camera Settings

I have a Nikon D200 and I was wondering what camera settings would be more beneficial for me with working in Lightroom with RAW (DNG) files? The settings I am referring to are: Sharpening, Tone Compensation, Saturation, etc. Is it better to adjust these in the camera or in the post processing of the images in Lightroom.
Also, a DNG question: I will be converting all of my NEF files to DNG, should I just leave RAW compression off in the camera or turn it on???
Thank you in advance.

So, in essence, it is the generated JPG from the RAW file that looks like crap when the tone compensation, sharpening, saturation, etc are all set to none in the D200??? I notice a big difference with the thumbnail view, I wasn't sure if it effected the actual RAW file. It seems to me though that I have noticed from time to time that some of my images do not need sharpening (since my camera settings are on 2+ sharpening), however, when I increase the sharpening in Lightroom I begin to see the halo effect due to the increase sharpening. With that being said, I set my camera sharpening back to normal and I will have to try it and see what I get (I have not shot the camera since the change).

LR2:DNG - PSCS3:'Smart Object' workflow question

Hello, I've just started working with DNG files exported as Smart Object from LR2 to PSCS3 and I would appreciate some feedback on my experiences thus far.
Let us assume that I've made basic corrections to _DSC1190.dng within LR2. I then want to apply a filter to a particular region of the DNG file with all of my LR2 adjustments applied.
1. Here are the steps I currently follow:
1.1. Right-click on the DNG file and select 'Edit In'->'Open as Smart Object in Photoshop...'. This results (I believe) in the DNG file with all of my LR2 changes being embedded within a smart object and the resulting temporary file being opened within PSCS3.
1.2. I perform my edits in PSCS3 and save the file as a PSD (i.e. _DSC1190.psd). As long as I was smart about things, I can now go back at any time and alter any of the changes I made in PSCS3, as well as access the DNG file within the smart object to make and ACR changes I desire.
1.3. If I want the new PSD file to be added to my LR2 catalog, I then need to navigate to where it was saved and manually add it.
1.4. If I want to make any exposure adjustments, or really, any adjustments that I'd normally make within LR2 or ACR to _DSC1190.psd, I need to open the file within PSCS3, double click on the smart object to get the ACR dialog, make my changes, and voila!, the PSD composite now reflects those changes.
1.5. If I make any changes within LR2 to the original DNG file (i.e. _DSC1190.dng), those changes are *not* reflected within the PSD file.
1.6. Questions
1.6.1. Is what I've described the expected behavior?
1.6.2. Although it might seem silly to some, and may present a technical challenge not worth the trouble, it seems it would be beneficial to have the smart object exported from within LR2 to PSCS3, contain a link to the original DNG file, and not now have two separate DNG files, one visible to the file system, and the other embedded within the smart object saved as presumably a PSD. I'm sure there are a lot of corner cases to consider, but it just seems very strange to now have two files wherein if you want to change something you would normally do through LR2 or ACR, you now have to do it in two different programs to two different files. Is this a problem Adobe has considered, i.e. any discussion about supporting this perhaps in an update to LR2 along with PSCS3/4?
Thanks much for any help/insight,
Matt

I haven't tried doing what you are in CS but do you have the embed xmp into file enabled or are you updating the xmp by saving it out of LR CTRL-s? Do you have ACR set to read the xmp data? I don't have access to LR at the moment but will have a play l8r and get back to you if no one else does.

Questions about DNG Profile Editor recipe code

I have been playing around with DNG Profile Editor. With a text editor I made the following recipe:
I have some questions:
1. Right now I have my control points at 60 saturation. Will using two points for each color (say 70 and 40) make my changes more consistent across darker and lighter shades of the specific color?
2. Does DNG Profile editor respect HueLow and HueHigh, are they just placeholder numbers, or are they ignored if two points are close to each other?
3. What does FeatherAdjust do? I'm guessing it controls the rate of drop off of the corrections. Is the value respected by DNG Profile editor when it creates a profile?
Thanks for your time and attention, -Bruce.

1. For now DNG-only. Here's why:
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles_FAQ#PEOnlyDNG
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles_FAQ#WhyNameDNGPE
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles_FAQ#WhyPESeparate
2. Standalone for now. See above links for why.
3. Use the 'Preview Color Changes' option in the Options menu.
4. You can use 'Apply Raw Adjustments' in the Options menu to see your raw adjustments. This is __not__ recommended for building a general-purpose profile because you are then optimizing a profile with specific image adjustments in mind, rather than building a profile based more on the inherent camera characteristics.
5. True, that is a limitation of this implementation.
6. I am not sure what you mean. The Chart Wizard automatically optimizes the color patches in a test shot based on reference values for many physical charts, which is more practically useful than the numbers printed on the reference card that comes with the chart.
7. Make sure you avoid color casts in the bottom row. The PE is picky about making sure your gray patches are relatively neutral. It is an attempt to help you get a better profile.
8. Use 'Show Affected Colors' from the Options menu.
You may wish to read this page carefully and thoroughly:
documentation
It is the reference online documentation for the DNG Profile Editor and a few of the things you wish to do, such as preview all color changes, apply raw adjustments, and visualize the extent of each color adjustment, are all documented there.

Question about dng profiles

Question for Eric or his coworkers ...
Is there some limitation regarding size of LUT in the a dng profile? Biggest profiles produced by Adobe have 90x16x16. For profiles made with my program I'm using bigger LUT (120x16x61), in order to reduce slight banding issues and improve precision in shadows. I posted some of those profiles on CHDK forum when people were asking about them, and lately, I posted a profile for Canon 40D because Noel wasn't satisfied with sky saturation using Camera Standard
I'm asking this because ACR 6.5rc1 crashed 3 or 4 times so far, reporting an error, so I returned version 6.4. Also, ACR 6.5 published a day or two ago had some problems with screen refreshing after zooming a cropped image (so I reverted to 6.4 again). All previous versions were working flawlessly
I'm using Windows XP 32 bit, computer has 4 GB RAM

I suppose it's not because of profile, as I didn't have any problems until ACR 65rc1, but just want to make sure
If it is, I can make smaller one for you (just it would be slightly less accurate)
About refreshing problem (6.5 release), I opened a group of raws from 400D. First one had a crop made previously. When I zoomed it, nothing happened (I think I was using Ctrl, as I wasn't in a zoom pane, but I'm not sure). Then selected the second photo and returned to the first one. It appeared zoomed now. Strange.
Edit: tried editing some older Canon SX110 raws (dng) with ACR 6.5 again. Selected a group of about 100 photos, selected all of them, zoomed all of them at the same location to correct a bad pixel on some photos with spot removal tool. After correcting 10-15 photos, I got an error "The operation could not be completed". If I close error message, the same error window reopens again ...

DNG converter question

I apologize for asking this question in this forum. But the DNG forum is not very active it seems. I have seen this problem mentioned in the past, but paid no attention to it and I can't find any of the references. I have no convert button on my DNG converter dialogue. Windows 7, DNG converter 8.4, 8 GB RAM. I have used this utility in the past without problems. I don't use it very often but was experimenting this morning

I posted a similar question quite a while ago, and what I learned was that Bridge has a DNG converter built in, but it's using ACR to read the file before it can convert. So you need ACR support for your camera.
AFAIK there's no way to point Bridge to a standalone DNG converter.
I suggested an updateable DNG converter plugin for Bridge, don't know why nobody listened...I thought it was an excellent idea
As for the metadata, you just have to try. I don't know if it can write metadata when it can't read the file.

DNG conversion fail and Photoshop will not open my NEF files (Newbie question)

Two part question. First, I just recently installed photoshop CS4 to my (windows vista) computer and I go to upload NEF photos to bridge and I check the box that says "Convert to DNG" and when it finishs uploading it says "Files successfully copied, However, DNG conversion failed." It says it everytime and I don't know what to do about that.
Second part: I try to open my NEF files in photoshop it says "Could not complete your request because it is not the right type of document." I am using a Nikon D90 and I don't know if that has anything to do with this. I apologize if this question is in the wrong forum, I am new to this and I thought maybe camera raw had something to do with this at least.
Thanks for any help

You need to update your Camera Raw plug-in to either version 5.2 or 5.3RC, as well as the new DNG converter. They are available on the Adobe download page, and there are complete instructions for installation available there.

Question about DNG converter in Bridge CS4

Hello,
I just installed Photoshop CS4, When I updated, it downloaded a hefty update (199 megs), so my setup now is:
Win XP pro
Bridge 3.0.0.464
Camera RAW 5.7
Photoshop CS4 11.0.2
My Camera is a Panasonic Lumix FZ150 ( 2011 vintage)
I have downloaded the Adobe DNG converter 6.6.0.261
Every thing seems to be working fine so far, except:
In Bridge when I "get Photos from Camera" the DNG conversion doesn't work. When I use the standalone converter it works fine.
From reading past material on this forum I am assuming this is due to the fact that Bridge is older than my camera, and doesn't recognize the format.
The questions:
1. Does Bridge have its own built in DNG converter that is not upgradeable separately?
2. If 1 is correct, is there a way to point Bridge to the location of the standalone converter so the work flow can be optimized.
3. Since Bridge is not doing the conversion, but only importing the files, does the "Apply metadata" section of that window actually do anything? Should I bother to fill in any of those boxes?
Thanks for any help.

I posted a similar question quite a while ago, and what I learned was that Bridge has a DNG converter built in, but it's using ACR to read the file before it can convert. So you need ACR support for your camera.
AFAIK there's no way to point Bridge to a standalone DNG converter.
I suggested an updateable DNG converter plugin for Bridge, don't know why nobody listened...I thought it was an excellent idea
As for the metadata, you just have to try. I don't know if it can write metadata when it can't read the file.

DNG Profile Editor "base profile" question.

I'm profiling a Canon 5D3 with both the Adobe DNG Profile Editor and the Xrite ColorChecker software. It's been about 3 years since I last profiled a camera, so I'm re-doing the learning curve. My question now is how and why the DNG Profile editor depends on a "base profile?" Specifically, why does the DNG PE Chart Wizard generate different results depending on what base profile is used.
I see in the documentation that "all color adjustments made in the DNG Profile Editor are defined relative to a base profile." I understand that logic when making a custom profile via manual tweaks. You have to have a starting point. But I don't understand that logic when using the Chart Wizard. I expected the Chart Wizard to arrive at the same pre-defined target point regardless of the starting point. It does not seem to do that.
I discovered the difference by using an apparently bad workflow. I shot my colorchecker chart, converted the CR2 to DNG and brought it into Photoshop via ACR to inspect. That stored "Adobe Standard" as the base profile in the DNG.
Then I fed this DNG to the DNG PE Chart Wizard and generated a profile. I opened the image in ACR and applied "My Profile", which became the base profile in the DNG file. I thought I did something wrong, so I ran the same DNG through the Chart Wizard again and generated "My Second Profile." That version looked very strange, so I did it again and made "My Third Profile."
Now I have three profiles. My First Profile was made from Adobe Standard base. My Second Profile was made from My First Profile base. My Third Profile was made from My Second Profile base. Each iteration becomes more strange (bad), so this is clearly not the proper workflow. But what is? What base profile should be selected for Chart Wizard and why does it matter?
Being curious, I did the same exercise using the Xrite ColorChecker software. That software generates the same result, regardless of what base profile is stored in the DNG files. I'm not sure I like the results, but at least they are consistent.

DNG Profile Editor lets you define color edits (in the first tab) using a set of color control points. These control points in turn define a color lookup table used to perform the color correction when processing a (raw) image.
When you use a Base Profile, the resulting color table in the final profile is a combination of the base profile's color table, plus the color table defined by any edits that you've added in the first tab (using the Chart Wizard counts as adding edits to that first tab).
The reason you can get different and less smooth results if you apply the Chart Wizard iteratively is because you are applying lookup table after lookup table. The current color table-building method used by DNG PE has some limitations regarding smoothness of color profiles if two color control points are placed too closely (this can happen with the Chart Wizard, or if you specify two points manually that are close to each other). These problems can become more noticeable if you apply the DNG PE iteratively.

Question on converting edited CR2 files to DNG

Sorry, I cannot find a separate DNG forum. If this question is in the wrong place, please direct me to the correct forum.
I have lots of CR2 RAW files on my computer, and I am considering converting them to DNG. Many of these RAW files have already been edited and so have a separate XMP sidecar file containing the edits in the same folder. If I convert (using the Adobe DNG converter) these edited RAW files to DNG, what is converted? The CR2 RAW file alone, so that the converted DNG file is the same as the original unedited CR2 file? If so, what happens to the orphaned XMP file? Ignored?
My concern is that I will lose all RAW edits if I convert to DNG because the conversion process ignores the edits contained in the separate XMP file.
Can someone explain this to me? Thanks.

So what you're saying is that the DNG conversion de-mosaics the image? I guess that's not surprising, since for compatibility with older Photoshop versions you'd have to deliver a more or less standardized format.
Kind of throws a big monkey wrench into claims that converting to DNG is functionally equivalent to opening raw images directly though... I was experimenting with a "fall leaves" image last night and no matter what I tried with the 2010 process I was still able to get more detail in bright red leaves with the 2003 process.
I suppose that says if you want maximum flexibility and control you'd better buy the Photoshop upgrades and stick to opening raw camera files directly. A variant on the "if you want to play you have to pay" adage.
-Noel
P.S., Does the DNG converter read the centralized database as well as XMP files? I personally prefer the database to the extra files.

DNG Profile Editor - questions about

0) Thank to Eric Chan for your work on this. Until now I used the Camera Calibration process through Photoshop and Camera Calibration table. But I see this as a big progress.
1) Will it stay only DNG editor or it will be also for raw pictures without a necessity to convert them to dng?
2) Will it be only stand alone aplication or as well a part of the LR?
3) Now I can switched off and on one color change (by the left mark in the Color List Box). Could it be possible to switch off and on the whole Color List Box to see all done changes?
4) I have red your comment that this tool doesn't work with lightness, only hue and saturation. But if I want to work on a specific picture (i.e. a man wearing a red sweater), it will be fine to have it in the brightness close to an end picture. Will it be possible to open a picture not only with WB, but also with exposure, blacks and other basic development setting?
5) Under the eye drop tool, I can see numbers of "initial" or "starting" color. But I can't see the numbers of changed color. It would be fine if I know the new numbers to see how close I am to them. It would be fine if the number over the color List Box will be also for starting color and also for end colors.
And one little proposal: if the color will not change, show in Color List Box only the starting (left) half of a color. Than I can simply see that I didn't set a new color or the color stay exactly the same (it is only a question if exactly the same or very close to the same).
6) It could be, that I will not use the exact color checker table for what you did process on the tab Chart. But many of color checker are delivered with exact numbers and picture on a cd, so it will be fine if I could open this "master" picture of a checker producer in a right panel under the Color List Box and simply take from it the end colors. First go to the main picture on left, choose the "initial color" and then simply go to this "master" picture in right and take the "end color". What do you think about this?
7) If I work on the tab Chart, I get the error window "not neutral gray patches, row 4 culumn 1". But if I move the circle to row 4 culumn 2 it works fine. Is there any difference or problem?
8) And last: how far is acting the shift of color. It will not work only for the one color but close surroundings will be also efeccted. How smal or large is the surroundings? E.g. if we take 360 degres for hue.
Tom

1. For now DNG-only. Here's why:
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles_FAQ#PEOnlyDNG
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles_FAQ#WhyNameDNGPE
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles_FAQ#WhyPESeparate
2. Standalone for now. See above links for why.
3. Use the 'Preview Color Changes' option in the Options menu.
4. You can use 'Apply Raw Adjustments' in the Options menu to see your raw adjustments. This is __not__ recommended for building a general-purpose profile because you are then optimizing a profile with specific image adjustments in mind, rather than building a profile based more on the inherent camera characteristics.
5. True, that is a limitation of this implementation.
6. I am not sure what you mean. The Chart Wizard automatically optimizes the color patches in a test shot based on reference values for many physical charts, which is more practically useful than the numbers printed on the reference card that comes with the chart.
7. Make sure you avoid color casts in the bottom row. The PE is picky about making sure your gray patches are relatively neutral. It is an attempt to help you get a better profile.
8. Use 'Show Affected Colors' from the Options menu.
You may wish to read this page carefully and thoroughly:
documentation
It is the reference online documentation for the DNG Profile Editor and a few of the things you wish to do, such as preview all color changes, apply raw adjustments, and visualize the extent of each color adjustment, are all documented there.

Noob question use dng converter or let LR convert to dng

Sorry for the noob question but I'm transitioning over to LR from aperture and I believe DNG is a good move for me. Now then, is there any advantage to using the converter over letting LR do it?

It really is the same integrated tool, yes. All the same preferences are there.
The only thing I am not aware if Lightroom can do is Extract Embedded Originals. But that's not something I'd ever do to my own RAW files.
Cheers

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