DNG Support

Can you tell me when Apple will support Leica DMR RAW in Aperture?
I bought the productv in good faith expecting DNG support, but it will not work with my camera. Are there any plans ? Is it the fault of Leica? , of Adobe ?
I am baffled by this - is it bec asue not many people wil lbuy the DMR.
If so i will persevere with the Lightroom beta

<...>
I bought the productv in good faith expecting DNG
support, but it will not work with my camera. Are
there any plans ? Is it the fault of Leica? , of
Adobe ?
<...>
That's a mix of Adobe misleding people as to what DNG actually is, and every company around (not just Apple) playng fast and loose with what DNG support actually means. It would be easier to be upset with Apple if there were anyone but Adobe who actually supported DNG fully instead of only convienient parts of it (and they usually wont tell you which parts).
I am baffled by this - is it bec asue not many people
wil lbuy the DMR.
Now as to your camera support, I imagine Apple will add support eventually but it may take a little while. It's a combination of the camera companies cooperating with Apple and Apple's priority for camera suppport which is I think driven in large part by sheer marketshare - they want Aperture to be useful to as many people as possible, which is understandable. They wanted to get good quality conversions for the largest camera makers (like Canon and Nikon) and should now be branching out in terms of supporting other brands (I'd estimate Fuji next though).
If so i will persevere with the Lightroom beta
You can also simply export TIFF's from a RAW converter you like and import those into Aperture. That's how I use the program today.

Similar Messages

Aperture lack of DNG support unfortunate

It's difficult to understand why Aperture does not offer support for Adobe DNG files.
DNG/RAW files are being used by some camera manufacturers that I work with, and they contain a wealth of metadata as well as the broadest range of image data, including "altitude", which is now very useful in my professional work.
This lack of support has forced me to go back to Lightroom, and to reconsider that application as my primary media catalogue and editing application.

A JPEG saved as a DNG isn't really a DNG file.
It is true that Aperture doesn't have "comprehensive" DNG support. It doesn't support linear DNGs, and it doesn't support some of the newest DNG extensions that Adobe has added (lossy compressed DNGs, etc.). I don't know the exact version of the spec that Aperture supports.
But do note that DNG is a lot of things. It's a fairly comprehensive spec that has many versions, with lots of different things. Aperture does support many DNG properties, but not all of them. If you want the latest, greatest, most comprehensive DNG support, then Adobe will have it, as it's their specification.
I personally just use the RAW files that come out of camera - whether they be NEF, CRW, CR2, or DNG. I _never_ convert my camera RAW files into DNG, because that actually strips some data (in my case, focus point informatin from CR2 files that Aperture can display, is removed from the converstion to DNG). There are many long-winded discussions on the "value" that DNG provides, and I don't subscribe to them. It provides no legay-proofness today that's unavailable other places.

Any solution for Panasonic Raw files and/or DNG support?

Hi folks - in addition to my Nikon cameras I shoot with a Panasonic LX3 and soon a GF-1 - and so far I haven't had any luck getting any sort of raw files from the panasonics to be read by Aperture. I had thought that with Apple's DNG support that there would be a way to convert the files to DNG and then import, but so far I have had no luck.
I realize that the GF1 is brand new, but the LX3 is over a year old and supported by all of Apple's competitors. I really don't want to switch to lightroom, but it is getting harder and harder to stick with Aperture.

Eric: Great, Aperture 3 might be out by spring 2010? That's only 6 months or so from now. [/sarcasm]
I appreciate the pointer to the AI article, but personally I'm more interested in whether Apple is working on adding additional RAW support for Aperture/Mac OS X any time soon, and certainly before Aperture 3 is out. Both Aperture 2 and Lightroom 2.5 are more than capable for my workflow and editing needs.
This week only added to my dismay re: Aperture v. Lightroom update likelihood and frequency; still radio silence from Apple, and Adobe releases a public beta of Lightroom 3, even as Lightroom 2 was released subsequent to Aperture 2 and has had more updates since its initial release than Aperture 2.
Brian, can you elaborate on the DNG conversion process that worked for you? Having tried every possible profile (I believe) in the latest release of the DNG Converter app, I have to say I'm skeptical that there's a setting that works with the GF1. But I'm ready to be pleasantly surprised!

HT201071 And still no Pentax K3 support? At least improve the DNG support so the K3's DNG can be read.

And still no Pentax K3 support? At least improve the DNG support so the K3's DNG can be read.

http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html

Aperture DNG support.

Hi,
As a new Aperture user I must say that I am really very impressed and prefer it to Lightroom. However, whilst my main camera (a Konica Minolta 5D) IS supported, my old Fuji isn't.
Now I appreciate that there are many threads about DNG support and or the lack of support for many popular cameras. But wouldn't it make more sense for people to ask Apple to concentrate on supporting DNG proper, rather than adding lots of support for old cameras.
If it did truly support DNG the problem would be solved. They could continue to add support for the majority of major new cameras, but those of us with large collections of files, from old and unsupported cameras wuld also be catered for.
Surely proper DNG support is more important than supporting XY or Z camera. With DNG everything would be supported.
Makes sense, does it not?
iMac Intel Core Duo 17" Mac OS X (10.4.8) 1 GB Ram

I thought that conversion to DNG was suppose to
protect you if the original raw format went out of
use and there were no converters available for that
raw format.
This is a false hope.
As noted, DNG only stores the RAW photosite data, translated into a form that programs can easily get at. It actually cannot even do this much for all cameras today, but let's pretend it could.
So you have the raw photosites - now what? Now you have to do the hard job of de-mosaicing the data, converting all of the seperate r,g,b values into real pixels. But wait, not all of the cameras use the same pattern - in particular Fuji. So you have a RAW converter reading a DNG that may run into an "unexpected" pattern it knows not how to convert.
The sad thing is, the worry you had about not being able to read RAW files in the future is already solved by a program called "DCRaw". This source code, free for all, lays out exactly how to read this exact same RAW photosite data from a file and even de-mosiac it (though a simple de-mosaicing). If you save off a RAW file on a disc along with a copy of DCRaw I can guarantee that in 100 years you will be able to use that code to parse that file.
Consider from this the other aspect of DNG I really don't like - if you have a DNG file, you have no way of knowing what is REALLY in that file. Is is pre-converted linear RAW data? Is it straight-up bayer pattern data? Is it a Fuji rotated data with extra dynamic range sensors? You can't know from the extension, and as a result have no idea if any programs you have will parse it correctly or not. At least with JPG or TIFF or even a normal RAW file, either a program reads that format or it can't. With DNG you will pretty much always have a subset of DNG files you cannot read.
So my question is, if you can always be sure you can read a RAW file in the future, and you can't be sure conversion to DNG will let any program but Photoshop read your file - what is the point? There are two things it gives you that make life a little easier, one is smaller file sizes (if you opt not to keep the original RAW and trust the conversion drops no data), the other is ease of adding metadata into the file itself. The first I would say is not as crucial as HD space is pretty cheap, the second is useful but you can always use sidecar files with RAW files - and that's only a burden if you need to move away from a managed editing solution like Lightroom or Aperture.
Some cameras are starting to use DNG directly as a native RAW format but I've already stated why I think that is not a good idea - with DNG you don't know if it's a RAW file direct from some camera or an alien format that holds data you don't know how to parse.

Should Apple punt with RAW and/or DNG support ?

It seems that Apple is taking a very detailed approach to profiling cameras before adding support to Aperture. Consequently Aperture may always be later than others apps to add new camera support. Also there will always be legacy or specialty cameras deemed not worth the trouble that don't get added too. I wonder if rather than asking Apple to support every camera made past and present it wouldn't be better to punt and ask for feature changes that make it easier to integrate other RAW developers into an Aperture workflow.
Further for a few of my most valuable images, maybe 1 out of 1000, no matter how good Aperture's RAW conversion I will always want to try other RAW developers to see if they might do slightly better on a top select image. An professional app that wants to host my entire photo archive must logically offer a workflow that supports any camera past or future that I may use even once.
The tools already exist to export a master and develop it with other RAW converters also to manage different master files of the same image using stacks. All that Apple would need to do to make the unsupported camera workflow in Aperture a useable alternative is make a few minor changes to already existing features:
1. In the RAW + JPEG workflow the JPEG is the second class member. You can expose it and have it stacked with the RAW master but you have to manually make it the stack pick. Otherwise when you close the stack you see only the unsupported master file which means nothing. It's not a problem restacking one image and not thinkable with thousands of images. I haven't found a way to get around this with Automator/Applescript. MAYBE: If the JPEG were the first image in the stack then I could still use Aperture for sorting, DAM, keywords, rating, etc. and just process my unsupported images with an external application.
2. I can use Export Master to save out a master file but the process of doing that then reimporting the master file and stacking it with the original is a tedious manual effort. Again Automator/Applescript can help here but more would be needed. MAYBE: If I could duplicate a master file inside a project or stack and if Aperture had an 'Open Master file with external editor" command then it would be easy to have a duplicate master file stored by Aperture that might be used with any other RAW processing application.
3. When I use 'Export Master' now to process some images with ACR or Nikon Capture then I can reimport the TIFF file or JPEG that I create but I can't easily associate them as versions or as externally edited files with their proper masters. MAYBE: There should be a way to link master files with the rendered versions of those files created by external RAW processors.
4. I started my photographic life with film. Most current 'pros' did the same. If I want to have one home for all my photo archive then it has to support film scans of larger sizes and export them to an external editor in something other than Adobe RGB. Automator and Applescript are will make this work in v1.5 but just barely. MAYBE: Give me a way to have my hi-res film scans stored in Aperture and send them to Photoshop without compressing them to Adobe RGB or downsampling to fit Aperture's current filesize (aprox. 250MB) limitation.
I can't imagine having many different databases and apps for unsupported images from a camera I may only use once. If Apple would just streamline and tweak a few features that exist in v1.5 then Aperture could be the home to all my digital images even if some of them had to be developed by another program.
I can't imagine a better workflow than using Aperture with any of it's supported cameras. That shouldn't stop Apple from opening the door for making use of Aperture's great database and DAM features with unsupported cameras too.
Pro Mac 2.66Ghz/8GB/250GB + 1TB RAID 0 wi SoftRAID in bays 2,3/X1900 Mac OS X (10.4.8) MacBookPro 2.16Ghz/2GB/100GB 7200rpm

Eric: Great, Aperture 3 might be out by spring 2010? That's only 6 months or so from now. [/sarcasm]
I appreciate the pointer to the AI article, but personally I'm more interested in whether Apple is working on adding additional RAW support for Aperture/Mac OS X any time soon, and certainly before Aperture 3 is out. Both Aperture 2 and Lightroom 2.5 are more than capable for my workflow and editing needs.
This week only added to my dismay re: Aperture v. Lightroom update likelihood and frequency; still radio silence from Apple, and Adobe releases a public beta of Lightroom 3, even as Lightroom 2 was released subsequent to Aperture 2 and has had more updates since its initial release than Aperture 2.
Brian, can you elaborate on the DNG conversion process that worked for you? Having tried every possible profile (I believe) in the latest release of the DNG Converter app, I have to say I'm skeptical that there's a setting that works with the GF1. But I'm ready to be pleasantly surprised!

Adobe DNG support ?

Hi all,
In Aperture documentation there is "support" mention about DNG files. I have Leica Digilux-2 camera which makes "Leica/Panasonic" RAW files. These RAW files are not in Aperture list, but I can convert them with Adobe DNG converter. But Aperture nod not open these DNG files ? Is there some other DNG format than Adobe DNG ? Or have I miss something. I really like to use RAW format also in my Leica.
PowerBook 17" Mac OS X (10.4.3)

Actually it is true. DNG is NOT a standard. It is in fact a proprietary specification. Adobe has released SOME of the DNG spec to outside vendors, but there's no way to prove they've released the entire spec. It is their system and they control it.
For a file to work within the DNG format, enough of the information supplied by the camera manufacturer's SDK has to be DNG compliant. I've spoken with Apple engineers who explained that the DNG format is too limited to get a good decode unless the SDK offers enough corresponding good information. For instance, a certain camera may support parts 1, 2, 5, 7 and 9 of the spec, but not 3, 4, 6, and 8. While technically, you could open the DNG file under these circumstances, you couldn't get a good decode.
Apple simply decided not to let a poor decode creep into the system just so that they could say they supported a camera.
While I am sure that some of the limited RAW support we're seeing is indeed the result of miscues or miscalculations by Apple, I believe that the camera manufacturers share an equal portion of the blame.
We already know that Nikon for instance has a history of refusing to play well with others when it comes to their "as shot" data. While that's been resolved with some Nikon cameras, it is still an issue with others and a perfect illustration of why users should be putting heat on their camera manufacturer to get the RAW file format support they want.
Scott Bourne
www.aperturetricks.com

.DNG support for Pentax K10D

Has anyone heard whether Aperture is going to support DNG for the Pentax K10D anytime in the near future?
It's a bummer not being able to just hook up the camera and go. The converter in CS2 is getting old and I'd like to be able to preview and back them up as I go.
Note: I tend to take rumors seriously...feel free to muse.

by the way, instead of asking users who actually
don't have any true insight into the Aperture
development team's agenda about support for your
camera, have you thought of sending a request through
the Aperture feedback web site? this will get the
idea in front of a lot of people who are actually
working on the application
Camera raw stuff is not handled by Aperture, and therefore I assume also not by the Aperture team. The camera raw facilities are system wide, to the whole OS and the services are provided through the Apple Digital Camera Raw updates such as this...
http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/digitalcamerarawsupportupdate101universal .html
These updates are global to OSX and provide the camera raw services to any application running under OSX. Aperture is a consumer of these services in the same way that any other application is.

No Linear Adobe DNG support?

Reason I would like to see Linear DNG is for the sake of Sigma X3F RAWS. Since the X3F is a non-mosaic RAW DNG Linear would be just fine since Aperture doesn't seem to know how to handle non-mosaic RAWs or they don't want to. Simply converting X3F RAW to TIF isn't good enough to get the full benefits of RAW. Opening up DNG Linear within Aperture would be advantageous for Apple and for their users. If they can allow JPEGs within Aperture it would seem to me that opening up DNG Linear would be more than fine and would address a host of problems for Sigma users.

Actually it is true. DNG is NOT a standard. It is in fact a proprietary specification. Adobe has released SOME of the DNG spec to outside vendors, but there's no way to prove they've released the entire spec. It is their system and they control it.
For a file to work within the DNG format, enough of the information supplied by the camera manufacturer's SDK has to be DNG compliant. I've spoken with Apple engineers who explained that the DNG format is too limited to get a good decode unless the SDK offers enough corresponding good information. For instance, a certain camera may support parts 1, 2, 5, 7 and 9 of the spec, but not 3, 4, 6, and 8. While technically, you could open the DNG file under these circumstances, you couldn't get a good decode.
Apple simply decided not to let a poor decode creep into the system just so that they could say they supported a camera.
While I am sure that some of the limited RAW support we're seeing is indeed the result of miscues or miscalculations by Apple, I believe that the camera manufacturers share an equal portion of the blame.
We already know that Nikon for instance has a history of refusing to play well with others when it comes to their "as shot" data. While that's been resolved with some Nikon cameras, it is still an issue with others and a perfect illustration of why users should be putting heat on their camera manufacturer to get the RAW file format support they want.
Scott Bourne
www.aperturetricks.com

Leica M Monochrome DNG support

It doesn't seem like Aperture supports this file format, can someone help as I seem to have exhausted every other option.

Unfortunately Apple still does not support the Monochrom RAW/DNG file. Actually Apple does not support any non-Bayer sensor (Fuji Xtrans for example).
The workaround suggested by leonieDF unfortunately does not work. The Adobe DNG converter generates dng files that are still not supported (regardless of "convert to linear image", "compression" options or any raw version chosen).
Bruce's option works. Unfortunately the TIFF file generated is usually 3x the size of the DNG and does not seem to be as good to be manipulated (shadow detail for example). You can use Adobe Camera RAW but there are at least 2 other RAW converters (RPP and Photo Ninja) out there that now supports MM DNG's.
There are a number of programs that now support the DNG for the Monochrom. Lightroom would be the obvious one since comes with the Camera. PhaseOne C1 also now supports the DNG.
I understand that Apple is working on getting the MM files supported. It seems that it may require not only a RAW support update but also OS update. I would suggest to send a feedback to both Aperture team and Apple OS team. The more feedback, the more they will know we want support for this camera.
What I have been doing so far is to shoot JPG+DNG and editing the JPG. Once support is released, I can just use the RAW as primary and the edits will then be done at RAW level (may need more adjutments though). Not ideal (far from) but I am not ready to move to Lightroom.
Cheers
Rafael

DNG support for Olympus E600

Hi, I have the latest DNG converter downloaded and running but it still doesnt support my Olympus E600. The E600 is a stripped down version of the Olympus E620 which is listed. How long before an update will be available or is there another way around this?

The E-600 is not listed as supported at all; see http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/407/kb407111.html Strange, as the raw data must be identical or almost identical to the E-620. Perhaps it is too new.
Gabor

Temporary solution for DNG support under 10.5.5

Those of you who use DNG files (ie. because you are using different brand of camera's like I do) certainly have noticed that DNG became unsupported after their upgrade to MacOSX 10.5.5.
A temporary solution that worked for me can be found here:
http://chdk.setepontos.com/index.php/topic,2353.0.html
Hope Apple and the Aperture team will fix this problem asap.

So you need to turn on the bg mode(2.4GHz) or a mode(5.8GHz)! Try it.
do you have any detailed instruction of this?

DNG support in Photoshop Element

I want to catalog my RAW files in PSE. To day I catalog the resulting JPEGs after RAW conversion but I'm not happy with this workflow. The DNG format opens up the possibility to write tags to the XMP part of the DNG file.
When I try to write my tags to the DNG file PSE do nothing and gives no messages... Is Adobe going to fix this?
If I want to try another organizer - is there any method to export captions and tag from PSE if you can't write this info to the file?

I haven't replaced my NEF file with DNG. Just want to find a method to add caption and tag to my RAW file and have the possibility to take my work to another DAM application in the future. If PSE can write metadata to DNG like ACR/Brigde this could be a safe route...
Are you other not concerned by this missing functionallity?

XMP and DNG support?

I'm using Aperture 2 on Mac 10.4.11...
After importing DNG files I have some problems and what to ask if other users experience the same or perhaps I'm doing something wrong?
I have a Lightroom Workflow where I convert all my 40d Raw files to DNG. I apply a lot of Metadata and some basic adjustments in the Lightroom Develop module. I update my DNG files with metadata and preview images to include everything in the files. After importing these files into Aperture 2 I have following problems.
Metadata is not imported properly.
Example 1:
Creator in Lightroom: Susi & Paul
Artist in Aperture after import: Paul
"Susi &" is missing. Artist is not the only field with this problem. I have the same in behaviour in "Writer/Editor", "Credit", "Source", "Byline"....., simply i n all fields...
Example 2:
Caption in Lightroom: Köln, Cologne
Caption in Aperture after import: öln, Cologne
The "K" form "Köln" is missing.
Example 3:
All adjustments I have done in the Lightroom Develop Module are saved in the XMP Metadata and all previews are updated in the DNG files after adjustment to reflect the changes. I expected that Aperture is reading this metadata and use it for rendering. This is not the case.
I was trying with Aperture 2 in German and English Language without any difference.
Now again my question... Do you experience the same behaviour with Aperture 2 or is it my mistake?
Thanks for any answer and... sorry for my bad english.

Thank you very much Adsy for reply!
After a few experiments I believe the wrong metadata import is a bug too. But this bug effects only my dng files, if I import jpeg's with the same metadata everything is fine. I'm not sure is it the DNG format or the included XMP (my jpegs also have XMP metadata).
In my jpegs I have EXIF, IPTC and XMP (IPTC for XMP). Do you know in which order Aperture is reading this information and which information has precedence and is used?
"IPTC" before "IPTC for XMP"?
And who is the winner if metadata in "IPTC" and "IPTC for XMP" has the same values?

DNG supported in CS3?

Maybe a dumb question, but I assume you can open and work with DNG files in CS3? Adobe's info page about DNG, only lists CS and CS2 is why I ask.
Best, David.

DNG Converter is a standalone app; DNG is a file format, as David recognizes. I assume the info page hasn't been updated. And, yes, you can open DNG files in CS3 via Camera Raw.

DNG Support

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