Does Vault back-up referenced masters?

When using the vault feature when all the images are referenced, does Aperture vault the library and the referenced images, or just the library? Do you have a choice?
I want to vault my library, which is nearly 200GB, but I don't want it to vault the 1+TB of masters I have too.

No. Referenced images are not backed up by the vault. You must back them up separately.

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Aperture 3 Backing Up Referenced Masters

I am trying to develop my workflow better.
I shoot images into the field and download them to my laptop. I then transfer them back to my iMac when I get home. I use Aperture 3 for my pictures.
In Aperture, I have all of my files referenced to a external drive. I want to back these photos up overnight using a Drobo or Synology NAS drive.
Does anyone have any experience on which would be better?
I could also implement a workflow in which the files will be referenced on the Drobo or NAS and then backed up overnight. I will be backing up the referenced just in case something were to happen to it.
Anyone have opinions on this?

Aperture 3 added a "Trash".
The deleted versions go into the trash, and you have to empty the trash to truly delete them. At this point it will ask if you want to delete the referenced masters as well.
As a pro, I'd rather not have a trash... But oh well, gotta appease the newbies.
Message was edited by: Matthew Bergsma

Backing up Referenced Masters

Would like some advice on what you consider the best approach to backup when using a mix of Reference Masters and Managed Masters in the library.
My understanding is that you cant use Vault on Referenced Masters and cant use Time Machine either.
Your advice is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
LArry

Just to be clear, all edits and adjustments, along with thumbnails and previews, regardless of managed or reference masters, are stored in Aperture Library.
Just use Vault to backup your Aperture Library (that has managed masters and adjustments, previews and thumbnails). Your referenced master, simply needs to be backed up by duplicating the files on another drive than where is resides. I simply save may referenced masters on two separate external drives when I read them off the card on exactly same folder/directory structure. If you get a RAID drive (other than RAID 0), it will do this for you automatically.
Many people use multiple Ap Library and is not an issue, but not typically for the reason you've brought up. Rather, one for business and another for personal, or one each for major clients.
Cheers

How do i backup referenced masters on EHD

Hello. If all my Masters are held in an EHD, how do I back them up? (They are all held offline as I ran out of space in Aperture Library) Vault doesn't back up Referenced masters.... do I connect one EHD to the Vault EHD and miss out Aperture? Sorry if this is a dumb question.

You back up the referenced masters on the external drive as you would any other files. As referenced masters they are not in any way connected to Aperture with regards to backing them up.
There are many ways to handle the situation. Time Machine, cloning the drive with the images onto another drive, etc. Again don't think of them as Aperture master files they are just files that need to be backed-up.

Vault + Time Machine w/ Referenced Masters

I know this general question has been asked several times, but I can't find a solution that matches my specific setup. I'm running Aperture off my MBP, so I have set up one external drive to hold my referenced masters. My internal drive has my aperture library with previews, etc. I also have one other external drive that is my dedicated Time Machine backup drive. How should I approach backing up? If I have Time Machine backup the aperture library and referenced masters, is there any advantage of adding a vault as well? Thanks for any help!

Gerry,
This ain't hard, just a bit complex.
To answer you first question: At this point, a Vault is of little value; Time Machine does everything you need and does it automagically. (Unless you leave Aperture running all of the time.) Time Machine is much better if you use referenced masters as the Vault does not back them up.
Time Machine is great as it creates images of your disk every hour - wonderful if you delete something by accident. People worry about filling their Time Machine disk. Don't. As long as your disk is large enough for one full back up the extra space only gets you time - that is you can go further back. For most of us, one month is all the history we will ever need. And when your disk fills, Time Machine diligently deletes the oldest data to assure that you always have a current backup. Nice.
A clone, on the other hand, is just that, an exact (usually bootable) copy of your disk. Normally, when you update a clone it adds what you have added but it also deletes what you have deleted. Delete something by mistake two days ago and last night's backup will delete it as well. On the other hand, have your Mac die (as mine did, 3,000 miles from the nearest Apple Store) and you can plug your clone into any other Mac and you are good to go. Slick.
Finally, off site is just that. What happens if your house burns or is robbed? You could lose your mac and all of your backups as well. There are many ways to do off site, from a hard disk that you sneaker net to your neighbor to a commercial service like Crashplan or Carbonite.
Hope this helps.

Restore referenced masters

Since referenced masters are not backed up by the Aperture vault, I was wondering about the best back-up strategy for referenced master files. Is it sufficient to preserve the path (i.e. folder hierarchy and file names) when backing up to a separate HD or DVD? Will Aperture recognize referenced files even if they are kept on a different hard drive or DVD if they are kept in the same path? Or, would I have to re-create a hard drive with an identical name in case my original hard drive dies. Does it matter whether the files are kept on firewire, USB or SATA?
MB Pro Mac OS X (10.4.8) Aperture 1.5

In case you change the location of the images you can point to the new location in File/Manage Referenced Files.
In the window that will pop up you find everything very intuitive. You can choose a different HD, DVD... It will tell you if there are masters lost as well.

Can't import referenced masters into Library

I've used referenced masters for years, since Aperture 1. Now I'm trying to import, and I get the error "Insufficient disk space". Here are the details
OSX 10.7.5
Aperture 3.4.1 (Just updated)
Current RAW Folder                              110 GB
Current Aperture Library                         9.9GB
Free space on startup disk                    13.3 GB   (not a lot, I know)
Space required (according to aperture)     3 GB
Folder I'm trying to import                         19.4 GB
Camera Nikon D7000, files NEF format. No previous problem with this camera.
If 100GB can be represented by 9.9 GB in the Aperture library, why does it want 16.3 GB to import 19.4 GB?
I have "Store files in their current location" selected in the Import pane.

Gil I think there are a couple of basics you need to come to grips with.
Assuming your Aperture library is on your start up disk and that you only have 13GB free, DO NOT PLACE ANYTHING ELSE ON THIS DRIVE, until you clear out some space adding more files to this drive is only asking for trouble.
So Aperture.
100GB is represented by 9.9GB, yes, Aperture has created previews of the referenced files and has a database to describe them = 9.9GB, 100GB of master files/images still reside on the other drive though.
The folder of files you are trying to import, 19.4 GB, you say you are now using a managed file workflow, that being the case Aperture now copies the files into the library, so there is no way that 19.4GB will fit into 13.3GB, plus there will then be an additional 1-2GB, based on 110GB=9GB, of space required by Aperture.
I hope this makes sense.
Moving forward, get youself two external drives, have you library, managed or not, along with any referenced files on one drive, the other drive use for your back up.
Tony

Purpose of creating a vault when using referenced files

I have a laptop with a limited size SSD and recenlty installed Aperture to manage my collection of images and video clips (from camera so short). My assets are currently on DVD's and so have referenced these DVD's within Aperature. My long range plan is to copy these DVD's to external drives so that one drive can be at home and the other at work for backup purposes.
My question pertains to the purpose of the vault when media is being referenced. Does the vault back up thumbnails, previews (1280/1280 at 6/med) and metadata...etc? Although most of my media (all but my current Project) is referenced my library file is currently 12GB. I have 13,426 photos/video being referenced on DVD with the current project being referenced with a folder on my laptop's drive. The idea was to monitor the size of the folder of the curren project so as to move to DVD when the size approches 4GB.
I noticed with off-line referenced files that you can not do much with the previews. I figured that with the preview being 1280x1280 one could use the Email function, share...etc. Other than of course previewing and slideshows is there a reason that previews can not be smaller the 1280x ?
Thanks for your time, someone....

I would recommend at least making your previews the resolution of your main display so that you can see the images full-screen when your referenced files are not connected (btw, the resolution of your display will have an asterisk beside it in the preview size drop-down box).
I have my preview size set to 1920 (or maybe even the size up from that -- I can't remember for sure) so that I can easily create slideshows for my HDTV if I want. But here's the catch, I also chose to disable previews for new projects in the Aperture preferences, and also turned off "maintain previews" for all projects in the library. I only create previews for my "better" images. The reason for this is that I'm still very much an amateur photographer who relies on taking multiple shots, stacking them, and then rating and selecting favourites for sharing and personal use. I didn't want my hard drive filling up with thousands of previews that will never be used for anything.
Food for thought!
Doug

The Best Method To Backup Referenced Masters?

I cannot find in Aperture help any mention of backing up the referenced masters which seems odd that Apple would consider backing up managed photos on the internal Aperture Library while not considering the very common (and supported by Apple) method of working with referenced masters on external hard drives.
This is what I am doing: I am using super duper to clone the HDD with the referenced masters to another external drive. If the HDD with the referenced masters dies I just hope that I can somehow reconnect the masters on the other HDD.
Is there a better way to back up those referenced masters? Perhaps a method I am not aware of from within Aperture to make it easy to use or reconnect the back up images?
Aperture 3, MacBook Pro running Snow Leopard

It makes me wonder. Since Aperture places the backups and therefore "knows" the location, does it in the event of losing the originals, have a dialog box or other means for "finding" and reconnecting to the file backups?
afaik, no. Kirby, do you know differently?
But there is of cause the "File > locate referenced files" window, that will allow you to reconnect the versions with their masters. But you will have to point Aperture to the location of the masters.
I am a fanatic with keeping at least two but preferrably 3 copies of everything in at least two different formats.
and preferably in two different places, see Kirby Krieger's post - "offsite location".
And if you are very concerned about the safety of your images, you will create the first backup of your masters directly from the card - before the images enter any image editing software.

Changed disks in my RAID, Aperture lost all referenced masters.

I have a G-Speed eS RAID system. I had 4 X 1TB disks.
I decided to change the hard disks to 2TB ones to double my storage capacity.
I retained the same volume name. I backed up the 2.5TB of data to 3 other disks and then copied it back to my upgraded RAID.
So I have a completely identical file structure. My photos were in /Volumes/GS/photo, and this is where they are now. However Aperture lost all connections to the 35000 referenced files.
It seems that there is no way to tell Aperture that old /Volumes/GS and new /Volumes/GS is the same location from my point of view (is your point of view different?). This means I have to reconnect each one of the 100+ projects manually. I DO NOT LIKE THAT. Am I missing something, or is this a nasty oversight? Don't tell me that this is a "feature" and one can only move REFERENCED masters from within Aperture...
Note: Repairing or rebuilding the library does not help.

Your suggestion works, but
1) You have to first select all photos in the "photos" smart album. If you do select them all, "Reconnect All" will not work.
2) Most important, after reconnecting, I also told Aperture to rebuild my library. And it lost them again... The photos got connected to a <null> named drive which is shown as offline.
We are talking about a big deficit of reliability here...
I had a backup of my Aperture Library. So I reconnected the files again, without a Library rebuild this time.
But what if I need to rebuild my library in the future?? I AM SCARED...
No need to mention that I have lost all day moving around many gigabytes of data, reconnecting files, etc etc. This is hardly a productivity boost.
The worst part is that I like a lot the Aperture UI and I hate the alternative.
But Aperture is unfortunately unreliable.
Just play enough time with the loupe on my MacPro and the application will crash.

Regarding Backup of Referenced Masters: What Software do you use?

Hi, I have a portion of my library stored on an external drive via referenced masters. I back up these image files to another external drive. Currently I do this manually - I just copy the folders using the Finder. But I'm interesting in a program that can automatically backup these files incrementally and keep the backup up to date. What does everybody here use? Lacie Silverkeeping? Thanks.

GraemeSmith wrote:
The referenced masters are stored on an external drive, not the internal drive (which is backed up with Time Machine). Is it even possible to use Time Machine on an external drive?
Sure. Time Machine can backup whichever hard drives are plugged in to the machine on which Time Machine is running. This is to be distinguished from drives attached to the network, via Airport Extreme, for example. Time Machine won't get those.
Also the backup drive I want to use for the referenced masters is different that the Time Machine drive.
Gotcha. That obviously rules out Time Machine.

Aperture 3 not deleting referenced masters

I have upgraded to Aperture 3 and unfortunately it does not delete the (newly imported) referenced master file.
Aperture 2 always asked whether I also wanted to delete the master or not, when deleting a version. Aperture 3 has not asked me this question yet. Is this by design or is something not working?
When a version is selected in an album and I select "File>Delete master and all versions" the versions are deleted, but when I go to the folder where the reference masters are located the file is still there. The files are in a folder on my Mac book pro.
Thanks for any thoughts/solutions

Aperture 3 added a "Trash".
The deleted versions go into the trash, and you have to empty the trash to truly delete them. At this point it will ask if you want to delete the referenced masters as well.
As a pro, I'd rather not have a trash... But oh well, gotta appease the newbies.
Message was edited by: Matthew Bergsma

Using the same Referenced Masters across Multiple External Hard Drives?

I have a large (2TB) desktop external hard drive that I am now using as the source of my referenced masters for Aperture.
I would like to copy this reference library ("My Photo Library") to a small, mobile external hard drive to use "on-the-go". But, if possible, I'd like to continue using the desktop external when I'm at home.
What's the best way to do this? Should I just copy "My Photo Library" from the desktop external drive to the mobile external and Relocate Masters? But then, how do I switch back to using the desktop drive when I'm home without having to Relocate Masters every time (my library is quite large: 17K+ photos of 8-21MB each). Is there a way to "trick" Aperture into thinking that both drives are the same drive???

Computer:
5" Mac Book Pro OSX (10.4.11) 2.2
Drives:
1x WD Studio Edition - 750 GB (Firewire 800)
1x LaCie - 750GB (USB)
Final Cut Express HD 3.5.1
(My minimal memory allowance is set to 3000MB)
(No external editors set)
HDV-Apple Intermediate Codec 1080i50
HDVFireWirePAL
Quicktime - 7.5
Camera - HVR-V1 connected with firewire
MiniDV Tapes, Mix of Sony & Panasonic (DVM60) - i know this is not advised, but i was in kenya, so getting the right tapes was not easy!
Is that everything? Is there any other information you need?
I have been working with Final Cut express while it has been installed on my WD hard Drive.
I have been capturing and editing my film through the WD hard drive very happily up until now, but now it is full with 10 of the tapes (and the application), and so I am now wanting to save the rest of my tapes on the LaCie.

New user - managed or referenced masters?

I finally jumped and bought Aperture after having outgrown iPhoto and gone through the Ap2 and Lr demos.
Now begins the process of migrating my current and old photos into Aperture.
Right now I've got less than 15k photos. I have an organization scheme in mind, but I'm looking for advice as to whether I should go managed or referenced.
I realize that this isn't an all or nothing decision (it is really a project setting), and that I can change my mind later if necessary.
Managed:
+ simple
+ vaults backup images and Ap-specific data
- doesn't play well with Time Machine
Pros for referenced:
+ can span multiple drives
+ works well(better) with Time Machine
+ can easily share masters with other apps (I don't plan to)
- vaults only backup Ap-specific data, not images
Have I missed anything?
Any recommendations?

I prefer Referenced Masters even on a Mac Pro. IMO it makes for a clean backup workflow and a forever-logical organization. And Referencing Masters ensures that the size of the Library will always be small enough that it need not cause a hard drive to exceed 50% full and reduce speed.
• Finder-copy images from CF to a labeled folder on the intended permanent Masters location hard drive.
• Eject CF.
• Burn DVD copies of the original images.
• Eject DVDs.
• Import images from the hard drive folder into Aperture selecting "Store files in their current location."
• Review pix for completeness (e.g. a 500-pic shoot has 500 valid images showing).
• Reformat CF in camera, and archive DVDs of originals off site.
Note that the "eject" steps above are important in order to avoid mistakenly working on removable media.
-Allen Wicks

Lost my referenced masters after update 3.0.1

Dear all, after the update to 3.01 a few hours ago I have no more access to my referenced masters.
When I try to open Photoshop or other plug-ins there is an error message.
After having so much trouble with the update from A2 to A3 whilst getting them fixed with your help here, I`m looking forward to waste another week-end.
Actions so fare done:
shutdown and restart, no progress
cmd + alt restart, no progress
recover latest update from time machine gets me a library file which is 1/3 of the size of the original lib (11GB vs. 33.3GB). No pictures can be seen, only colored stripes, activity window showing me that the program reworks 44.000 objects. I`m not very optimistic to get my library back.
Any other ideas.
Regards
TikTok101

I'm having a similar issue, my refrenced images (stored on a network drive) are fine but my managed images (stored in the aperture library) are missing. I have the previews but not the images.
I have repaired and restored my library niether have worked
I also restored my hard drive using time machine to A2 and the images are still missing

Does Vault back-up referenced masters?

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