Double-Extended Network with two AX - Possible?

I am in a large apartment with lots of concrete walls. I use a Time Capsule (500G) connected to a cable modem to access the internet, and have two AX set up to extend the network twice. No. 1 is in a hall way and serves to extend the network into the living room. No. 2 is in the living room and serves as my iTunes connection to my stereo. I can stream wirelessly through No. 2 to the stereo, but my Internet connection (and presumably my streaming music) are routed through No. 1, even though I am sitting in front of No. 2.
Both AX are set on "Extend a wireless network" mode, and the network is on 5Ghz.
I have played with various settings on both AX, but cannot get my MBPro to connect to No. 2. Any thoughts? Can it be that two AX can not extend a network twice, serially?
Ed

Unless you have some unusual obstructions in place, your MBP should normally connect to the Express that it is closest to. Check your "extend" setup carefully as it is easy to make a mistake or forget a check mark on a configuration that can make all the difference.
In AirPort Utility > Manual Setup > Wireless tab, your TC must be setup to "create a wireless network" and there must be a check mark next to "Allow this network to be extended"
For the Express devices select the unit you want to check and use the same Manual Setup > Wireless tab to check the configuration of both units. Wireless mode should be "Extend a wireless network" and there must be a check mark next to "Allow wireless clients". AirTunes is active by default in the setup.
Check pages 43-44 on the AirPort Networks Guide...link is on the home page of the forum....for a step by step guide on setting up the "extend" feature.
Using your MBP, hold down the option key while you click the AirPort icon at the top of the screen and it will show you the MAC address of the device that you are connected to.
The important number in terms of bandwidth is Transmit Rate. You want it as high as possible. Experiment with a few different Radio Mode settings to determine what will give you the best Transmit Rate. It's possible that a 2.4 GHz setting may be better than a 5 GHz setting. It just depends on the construction of the home and number of obstructions in the signal path.

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Solution for Poor signal in a wireless WDS network with two Airport Extreme

I have just bought my second Airport Extreme to create a wireless network with the best possible signal. I have one Airport Extreme in my office and the second one (supposedly the remote base) in the living room, two brick walls and 7 meters away. I have follow Apple instructions for the setup, main base "Create a Wifi Network" and Extend network option selected. The remote "join an existent network" and Allow wifi clients selected. According to Apple this is a WDS network between two Airport Extreme.
The network is working and the signal from my iMac is very good in my Office. In the living room the signal with my PC laptop is also very good.
Problem is that my iPod Touch OS 3.0 (I use it as a remote control in my living room with a twonky media server) gets now a very weak wifi signal in my living room, in many cases I lose the wifi sgnal although I sit two meters away from the remote Airport Extreme in the Living Room. If I go to my office with the iPod, then I get a good signal.
I think that only the first Airport Extreme in my Office (Main Base) is emitting a wifi signal and the second Airport Extreme (remote) is only receiving the wifi signal not making a repetition of the wifi signal. (Sorry for my explanation, I am not technical on this.)
I thought that, in a WDS configuration, the remote Airport Extreme WAS suppose to also replicate the wifi signal in my living room.
I have also tried a WDS manual setup with the two airport with the same results.
Is there a solution for this?. Do I have to connect the two Airport Extreme with a wire ethernet in order to be able to have a wifi signal strong enough in my living room for my iPod Touch?.
Thank you for your time.

Thank you Bob for your time.
I understand from your words that with a DHCP reservation I can force de Airport Extreme Main Base to assign an specific IP to a particular client in the network. Is that correct?. If that is the case, I will reserve the 10.0.1.3 to the Twonky Media Server (I need this to be fixed to this IP) and I will change the configuration of the remote Airport Extreme to DHCP automatic.
I will give it a try in a few days. I have spent so many hours with this set up that I am a bit terrified to start again today, to tired from work.
Just one last question. Setting up the remote Airport was very difficult with the Airport Utility. I had to reset and start many times as I always got two errors in the set up:
1.- Internet not connected.
After a minute or so, most of the time the problem was corrected automatically as the remote found the main base that is connected to the internet. I got a confirmation message for this.
2.- Second problem was that Airport Utility said that it could no connect the remote to the specified network. Sometimes (not always) the remote light turn green both in the Airport Extreme and in the Airport Utility, BUT I never got confirmation of a successful installation. Nevertheless, the connection was established because the wifi network exist.
Do I have to "disable the WAN port" during the installation of the remote Airport to avoid the problems?.
Best Regards,
Fernando

Extended network with 2 AEBS and 2 AE

I have an extended network with 2 AE Base Stations and 2 Airport Expresses. They are all connected on the 5 GHz band and are 'N' only. The two AEBS are connected through ethernet and the two AE are extended wirelessly. I also have an apple TV, Macbook Pro and iMac that connect to this network wirelessly on a regular basis.
My question is this.... is it possible to assign which AE connects to which AEBS. The two AEBS are at opposite ends of my home on furthest levels apart. I have one in the basement on one end, and one on the second floor on the other. The two AE are in the middle on the first floor in between the bases.
The problem I seem to be having is that they (the two AE) are not connecting to the base station that gives them a good signal. They connect fine, but the BS they are connecting to give them a weak signal essentially making them ineffective in their extension. I want to be able to assign them to the closest BS to make them more effective.
Is this possible?

Sure,
They are actually independent of the apple gear in that they are simply attached as wireless access points to provide for the wireless g side of my network. Their IP's are static and they provide my windows machines and gaming consoles their wireless feed.
The two Airport Extremes and Airport Express's make up the foundation of my 5 GHz wireless N network for my Apple systems. The two airport express's not only extend my network but also work as airtunes devices in my house.
So....the AExpress do not extend the linksys units at all... just the 5 GHz N. The problem I am having is that one of the AExpress units is linking to the AExtreme that is farther away from it....giving it a very poor connection and hence extending a very poor signal. I would like to get it to attach to the closer unit....and would prefer to do it without having to utilize MAC filtering if that is possible.
I have other MBP's and MB's that connect periodically and using MAC filtering would be a pain.

How do I extend my network with two routers?

Hey all,
I've been wondering for a while how I could solve the weak signals that I get in the lower level of my house from my standard Verizon FiOs router. I have an Airport Extreme still lying around after it was taken out and replaced by the Verizon guys when they installed FiOs and I thought I might be able to put it to use downstairs. Is there any way I could put my Verizon router (which is directly connected to the fiber optic modem) and my Airport Extreme together to work in an extended network so that I could have strong signals in both levels of my house? Is it even possible? Any helps on this issue would be greatly appreciated.

Dranakin wrote:
I'm a bit confused about the terms 'network throughput'. Is that referring to the speed of the network? Your internet speed is slowed down when connecting to a remote station?
Yes. At least with an 802.11b or g network, the effective network bandwidth is halved with each remote base station in a WDS configuration. In other words, if the maximum theoretical throughput of an 802.11g system is 54 Mbps, adding a remote base station will reduce it to 27 Mbps.
{quote:title=from Wikipedia:}{quote}
Two disadvantages to using WDS are:
• The maximum wireless effective throughput is halved after the first retransmission (hop) that is made. For example, in the case of two routers connected via WDS, and communication is made between a computer that is plugged into router A and a laptop that is connected wirelessly using router B's access point, the throughput is halved, because router B has to retransmit the information during the communication of the two sides. However, in the case of communications between a computer that is plugged into router A and a computer that is plugged into router B, the throughput is not halved since there is no need to retransmit the information.
• Dynamically assigned and rotated encryption keys are usually not supported in a WDS connection. ...
I didn't really believe it until I added a remote base station and checked my network speed with http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/, with and without WDS.
As I understand it, 802.11n networks are not be affected in the same manner due to its ability to handle multiple data streams simultaneously.
If you want to extend your network without sacrificing bandwidth, you can certainly connect the base station Ethernet ports. That is not WDS; Apple calls it "extending a network". That's also how they do it in Apple's retail stores (at least when they used b/g AEBSs).
Message was edited by: John Galt

Extend altready extended network with old dome Extreme?

I want to extend my network with an old Airport Extreme, the dome version. The current network uses a new square Extreme (wired to my MacPro tower), then extends to a Time Capsule. I want to use the old dome Extreme to run a USB color printer in a remote room in the house. Is this possible?

Yes, this can be done, but the entire network would have to be configured for a "static" WDS. This type of WDS has two major disadvantages: 1) All the base stations, including the 802.11n ones, would only operate in the 802.11g Radio Mode, and 2) For every base station added, the overall bandwidth will be cut in half. For this case, with three AirPorts, the total bandwidth would be: (54 Mbps / 2) / 2 = 13-15 Mbps ... around the same as the 802.11b standard.
If you still want to pursue this, I can provide the step-by-step instructions to do so.

Can I set up a WDS network with two main base stations?

I have an AEBS in the main part of the house and a time capsule in the office in the back of the house, currently with one internet connection (it's cable modem) into to the AEBS. I have tried to use relays (two airport expresses) in a WDS to have the internet connection reach the time capsule, but unfortunately the distance is too great and it won't make it.
I can move the internet connection and AEBS into the middle of the house and everything would be fine (one internet connection into the house, no need for relays to reach the time capsule), but this requires rewiring the cable connection and adding a power outlet, which seems like a lot of work.
My other option is to simply have another internet connection hardwired into the office. This would be using the same cable that comes into the house and is split outside. If I go this route--my question is--can I get the time capsule and the AEBS be on the same WDS network (same name, same passwords?), or will I have two separate networks in the house? If it is the former--how do I set it up? Can I have a WDS with two main base stations? Or is there an easier route?
Thanks the help and advice...

My other option is to simply have another internet connection hardwired into the office. This would be using the same cable that comes into the house and is split outside. If I go this route--my question is--can I get the time capsule and the AEBS be on the same WDS network (same name, same passwords?), or will I have two separate networks in the house? If it is the former--how do I set it up? Can I have a WDS with two main base stations? Or is there an easier route?
Just run the Ethernet cable from one of the LAN ports on the AEBS to the WAN port on the Time Capsule. Configure the Time Capsule to operate as a bridge.
You do not use WDS when they are wired together.
Then configure the AEBS and Time Capsule to use the same SSID, wireless encryption type/level/password. Have them operate on different channels as far apart as possible.

Creating and Extended Network with 2 Airport Express Units

I had an extended network using 2 express units but one of them broke. The old network was setup with an older version of Airport Utility and I can't seem to repeat the set up a new network with the new express unit I have bought.
The simple setup procedure using Airport Utility 5.5.1 only appears to allow you to 'join' the remote Express unit to an existing network, there is no 'extend remotely' option.
I remember doing it last time by creating a WDS network which agrees with instructions I have found here - http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2009/03/taming-an-airport-express-wds.html
I set up the first Express as a base station with a network and select 'Participate in a WDS network' and 'Allow this network to be extended' under the wireless tab. Under the WDS tab I 'Allow wireless clients' and add the hardware address of the second express unit.
I then update the express unit but I get a WDS error which states, "This Airport wireless device is set up as part of a WDS network but no other AirPort wireless devices were found."
This seems to be a chicken and egg situation.
Any help would be appreciated.
Alan

Alan, welcome to the discussions!
It appears that you want to set up a WDS arrangment, correct?
But, I can't figure out whether you want to configure it with a "base" and two "remotes", or whether you want to configure it with a "base", "relay" and "remote"
Can you clarify? I'll send you a link with instructions from forum expert user Tesserax with step by step instructions. Just need to know what set of instructions to send.

Extend Network with Airport Extreme & Express

I am trying to extend the range of a wireless network from one house to another about 80 yards away. I have an Airport Extreme Base Station (ABES) and an Airport Express (AX) which is supposed to accomplish this. I found some instructions in the forums that walked me through configuring WDS. That was easy enough, however, when the AX restarts it doesn't come back up in the Airport Utility. It will come up if I do a hard reset on the AX. The ABES continues to show a WDS error and displays a flashing amber light.
What am I doing wrong? How do I fix this issue?

Karen,,, sorry for the interruption. I have the same issue..... AP Extreme Flying Saucer, AP Express "b", and a new AP Express "n" and would like to stop all the drop outs with my music. So, I'll ask Bob for some help.... I think I already know the answer.....
Bob,,,,, Here is my schematic layout.... Everything is "as the crow flies" and in the same height placement. iMac in bedroom, 1st Stereo in Living room approx 25 feet away, 2nd Stereo in a detach Shop approx 85 feet from the iMac. There is a concrete block wall between the computer and the first stereo and the same block wall along with two big glass windows between the computer and the shop stereo. Again all are in a straight line from the computer.
The new AP Express "n" is in the shop which is the greatest distance. If the wind is blowing hard I have lots of drop outs in both stereo's..... And during other nice weather times everything works excellent.
How can I extend the wireless signal??? I'll buy all "n" stuff if you think it'll do the trick....? I can't raise the Dr. Bott antenna due to cord length.... Oh,, my internet modem is plugged into the iMac not the AP Extreme...
Any suggestions....?

Can't extend network with Airport Express on Sky Broadband

Hello,
I'm having some difficulty that's driving me bananas!
I've recently moved house and got Sky Broadband. They sent me their Sagemcom router and the setup was easy. I thought I'd do what I always do. I'll connect my Time Machine to it via ethernet, and connect via Time Machine's network. Then I have two Airport Expresses in the house to extend the network and use Airplay etc.
I can set up the Expresses with no problem, everything talks to everything without a problem and the lights are all green but the network isn't getting extended with either of them. I refuse to believe they're both broken as I also borrowed an Express form my Dad's house (which extend the network without a problem) and it doesn't work with me.
Extend my network is checked in the Manual Setup in Airport Utility but for the life of me I can't get my network extended.
I have done tests where I replaced Time Machine and made one of the Expresses the main base station and it throws signal out easily like that but I can't extend that network with the second Express.
I followed this thread https://discussions.apple.com/message/13171691?messageID=13171691 and have tried a few things to no avail. Currently I have configured an old Airport Extreme (just to keep testing) which works great and have set up an Express wirelessly. All lights are green and the settings seem to all be correct. I turn wifi off on my computer and connect to my computer from the Express using ethernet and nothing. Should I get a connection like this?
Is it Sky? I have read in a few places that Sky have disabled the ability to extend their network but I'm not eve using the signal from their box.
Any ideas or thoughts will be gratefully received.
Thanks in advance.

OK so I've been tying it out but unfortunately to no success. Everything looks fine and all lights are green but the network isn't getting extended - just as before.
Click the Wireless tab
Wireless Mode = Extend a wireless network
Wireless Network Name = Same name as the Time Capsule network
Check Mark next to Allow Wireless Clients
I don't have an option to extend a network, only to join: http://flic.kr/p/a222kR
I do get the option though if I use the guided setup, even though it doesn't work: http://flic.kr/p/a24TQQ
I did try one other thing though. I set up the Time Capsule and it works great. Then I tried instead, to use my Airport Extreme to extend the network. The Extreme did give me an option to extend the network in the drop down menu and a checkbox to Allow Wireless Clients, unlike the Express. I do believe that this is now working. I now need to find the best place to put it to extend the range.
My Expresses are only 802.11g so they're pretty old but as I said, it worked at my Dad's house but not here. Does it make a difference that the Airport Base Station at my Dad's house is an older UFO shaped Snow Airport? I'm becoming suspicious that seeing as I've only ever lived in small houses and apartments that maybe they never worked?? I've recently moved into a more spacious house so could this be the problem?
One final test using iStumbler showed that it could see Apple Network XXXXxX until I configured it. Once it was configured it disappeared from iStumbler. The Airport ID number had gone from the list.
Do I need newer n compatible Airport Expresses then? So many questions pop up now... When I turned my Express into the base station (which only throws out a g network) then surely I should be able to extend to the next Express (which is also g only)? It still didn't work. The Express are on version 6.3 by the way. Having the Extreme extend the network is a good start but I also need the others to work too. Do you think I'm correct in my assumption?
How about WDS, could that work? Will WDS slow the network considerably?
Sorry if this message is rather long and garbled and again, thanks for your interest and advice.

Problems extending network with Airport Express

After messing with the settings on my new Airport Express((802.11n), I finally managed to set up a WDS network that sort of works. I've been struggling for a day and a half trying to use it to extend my regular network set up on my Airport Extreme(802.11g). I used multiple configurations, different securities, channels, etc, and got nothing but flashing amber. Somehow I've got it working with AirTunes, but no internet. Here is the current WDS setup:
*AEBS(g)-WDS MAIN*
Connected to Comcast broadband
v 5.7
WPA/WPA2 security
Channel 6
Set as WDS-Main
Internet: Configure IPv4: Using DHCP
Remote is set to the ID for the AX
Sharing: Share a public IP address
*AX(n)-WDS REMOTE*
v 7.3.2
WPA/WPA2 security
Channel 6
Set as WDS Remote
Internet: Configure IPv4: Using DHCP
Sharing off (Bridge mode)
The AX works as a music streamer only. In order to access the internet I have to switch to the main network (AEBSg). For some reason the AE is not sharing internet connection with the AX. Could it be my internet settings on the AE? Or maybe it's not possible to extend a "g" network with an "n" AX? Any suggestions would be great...

Price difference between an express vs an extreme makes moving to an extreme very attractive. using extremes and the extend a network feature automates a lot of settings. I tried the express route and was never happy with the results.

Can I create an extended network with a brand new TC and 2 first gen. AE units?

I purchased a TC 2TB yesterday and replaced my non apple router with the TC. I have 2 older AE units that I suspect to be first generation. TC is in basement and I have placed AE in garage where I spend most of my time. Signal in garage is weak and lags. Air tunes off of AE in garage connected to boom box works fine. I run AirTunes from 3 iPhones, iPod touch, and 2 iPads with no problems. The options in manual setup for the AE don't offer make this an extended network, I suspect because they are too old? I don't want to create a WDS network and sacrifice the bandwidth. My main machine is an iMac 27 that is one year old, this is in the kitchen pretty much midway between the TC and the AE in the garage, if that makes any difference?
Any help is greatly appreciated.

The options in manual setup for the AE don't offer make this an extended network, I suspect because they are too old?
Please take a look at the faint print on the side of both AirPort Express (AX) devices that you have to identify the Model No.
You will need # A 1264 to do what you want. If you have # A 1084 or similar, the devices that you have are not compatible with the "extend a wireless network" setup.
What are your findings?

Extending Network with Airport Expresses?

I'm drawing in wifi signal from the shipyard and want to broadcast(extend) it throughout the lower sections of a boat.
Currently I have 1 airport express drawing in the signal with ethernet connecting to the computer. However I want to extend the current network. Can I do this by buying another Airport Express and connecting through ethernet cable to the one I currently have. Would this work? What options would I need to select with the new AE(extend network, create network, etc)? Would this work with an airport extremeas well.
Any help much appreciated.
Ash

Tessarax,
Are you saying I would need three AXn to create the extended network? or would it just work with 2?
ie
AXn(Recieving)-----Ethernetcable-----AXn extending network
Will this not work?
Sorry just want to know how much I'm in for and if it will work before i go out and spend it.
Thanks for the reply
Ash

Can I configure a wireless home network with two cable routers (both with separate connections to the same cable company)? Issue is poor signal strength even with multiple Airport Expresses added to the network.

I have a wireless home network consisting of a time capsule, two airport expresses and a cable modem. Even with this configuration I get a very weak signal in much of be condo - the walls, etc. are solid concrete. I want to see if I can add another separately connected cable modem and connect one of the existing airport express to it by Ethernet cable. If so, this would give me two wired hubs and greatly improve signal strength. I do not know if this configuration will in fact work or if I will just wind up with two, separate and unrelateable networks. Unfortunately, there is no way to run any additional Ethernet cable and I doubt simply adding more Airport Express will help. Thanks.

Try Ethernet over Power adapters.. these are very popular for your kind of environment.. being able to make non-wireless link to another area where you can setup a wireless access point.
Airport Express are not great for wireless power.. if you really have issues with wireless strength in a bad environment apple stuff is not the way to go.
The comparison chart here.
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/lanwan/router-charts/bar/58-2_4-ghz-dn?see=P_F
This is their worst test location you can also see averages.. the latest airport extreme.. is there a long way down.. and that is a much better wireless device than Airport Express.
The Ubiquiti power AP is small cheap and designed for precisely this duty.. useless in an apple wireless network.. you will need to run ethernet or EOP adapters back to the main router.. but if the normal omni directional antennas don't provide enough signal you can get directional ones.. I suspect you can cover your whole apartment with a pair of these and high gain directional antenna.

Extend network with AE 2 Antenna Model over Old AE?

Would there be any benefit to using a new dual antenna AE over an old one with a single antenna? I have a mix of new and old Macs as well as an iPad 2. I am also using an Airport Express as last device in the extended network.

Jazzman wrote:
Would there be any benefit to using a new dual antenna AE over an old one with a single antenna? I have a mix of new and old Macs as well as an iPad 2. I am also using an Airport Express as last device in the extended network.
I am considering the same thing. Benefits as I understand it: the new Airport Extreme or Time Capsules will allow your newer computers to use the 5 GHz band while your older computers and other devices use the 2.4 GHz band. Separate bands should improve performance. Also the older AE may only support 802.11g, but the new AE will allow older 802.11g devices to coexist with the 802.11n service on the updated AE2. Or so I hope...
If your older AE only supports 802.11g, then you will also see greater range and performance moving up to 802.11n. That’s the main problem i’m tackling as my old router doesn’t provide very good coverage in parts of the house and the iPod touch frequently loses its wireless network signal. I considered Airport Express to extend my network but like the idea of having the dual bands available.

Extending a network with two AEBSn 802.11n base stations

Problem: Laptop on remote Airport Extreme (n) doesn't get internet, but can see entire network.
I have set up 2 new Airport Extreme's (n). One is connected to the cable modem and set to "create wireless network" and "Share a public IP address" . The other is about 80-100 feet away and set to extend the network.
A PowerBook G4 is connected to the remote Airport Extreme and gets an IP address correctly, and can connect to a computer on the primary Airport Extreme. Transfer rates from the remote laptop to a computer on the primary Airport Extreme are strong (15-30 Mbit).
According to the Airport utility, link speed between the two Airport Extreme's fluctuates between 104 and 130 Mbit.
The problem is that the computer connected to the remote Airport Extreme can't get out to the internet. Computers connected to the primary Airport Extreme get a very fast connection to the internet. What am I doing wrong?
Airport Extreme 802.11n Mac OS X (10.4.9) AEBSn

Let's double-check your AEBSn's settings...
AEBSn - Extending a wireless network Setup
- If practical, place the base stations in near
proximity to each other during the setup phase. Once
done, move them to their desired locations.
- Open AirPort Utility and select the base station
that will connect to the Internet.
- Choose Manual Setup from the Base Station menu, or
double-click the base station to open the
configuration in a separate window. Enter the base
station password if necessary.
- Click AirPort in the toolbar, and then click
Wireless.
- Choose “Create a wireless network” from the
Wireless Mode pop-up menu, and then select the “Allow
this network to be extended” checkbox.
- Next, select the base station that will extend this
network, and choose Manual Setup from the Base
Station menu, or double-click the base station to
open its configuration in a separate window. Enter
the base station password if necessary.
- Choose “Extend a wireless network” from the
Wireless Mode pop-up menu, and then choose the
network you want to extend from the Network Name
pop-up menu.
- Enter the base station network and base station
password is necessary.
- Click Update to update the base station with new
network settings.
(ref: Page 45 of "Designing AirPort
Extreme 802.11n Networks.
I followed the exact instructions above with one AEBSn connected to the DSL modem and "creating the wireless network", and a second AEBSn "extending the network". Depending on the location (1st or 3rd floor), my PowerBook G4 connects perfectly to the AEBSn with the stronger signal.

Double-Extended Network with two AX - Possible?

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