Drop Frame being read as Non-Drop Frame

Hey,
I'm working in FCP HD 5.1.4 and our guys are shooting audio at drop frame, and video at drop frame, and yet when we import the media into FCP, the Video is in Drop frame, but the audio appears to be Non-drop so we're getting BAD sync (some clips 30 seconds, others up to a min.). We're using TOD T/C and it's really important that we convert it cuz we'll shoot 8 hr days, and the first few clips arn't that bad but after so many hours, the sync gets worse and worse.
We're using XDCAM Sony PDW-1500 deck for the video transfer and the audio is BWFs from an external Audio receiver, then it's backed up on lacie drives (prob using compressor) then we're syncing in FCP.
Any thoughts?
Fraser

FraserPost, according to Apple in the Late-breaking FCP news PDF on pg.4, Broadcast Wave Audio Files imported will always be interpreted with non-drop frame TC.
Highlight the clip in the bin, choose Modify Menu option and choose Timecode. You can then change it to drop frame in the options panel.
Then your material should synch up.
For future reference but still notable, if you import an aiff, mp3 or another type of audio file without TC, the file will create TC dictated by the Sequence preset setting. This I found out the hard way. One has to shut down FCP and start it up again for the change to take effect on material imported.
Macbook Pro 2.16G Intel Core Duo Mac OS X (10.4.8)

Similar Messages

Drop-frame media to a non-drop frame clip?

Hello,
Maybe it's not my night and I should just go to bed! In any event, upon batch capture I receive the following warning:
Warning: You are about to capture drop-frame media to a non-drop frame clip. If you proceed, you may experience changes in logged in and out points, problems relinking media, or removal of master clip relationships.
All the clips were logged via a DSR-11 using drop-frame (all the clips, 13 in all, have a semi-colon). Nothing has changed on our set up, we are strictly DV. Searched and so an earlier thread some months back but no additional insights? Any clues?
Mike

hello mike,
it is possible you are the victim of deck settings.
some decks (including the DSR-11, i believe) have a menu setting that can force the deck to output DF or NDF regardless of what was recorded on the tape.
it is possible that the deck was set to do this when you logged (and it isn't now), or it is set to do this now (and it wasn't when you logged).
so ... first see if you can find this in the menu of the deck. it will be called something like "DF mode" or TC mode or somesuch. make sure its off (so that it gives you what is actually on the tape).
then capture.
if you haven't used these clips anywhere, you should be able to ignore any warnings and take what you get of the tape.
hope that helps.
R.

"Capturing drop-frame media into a non-drop frame clip" error message

I've logged tapes from what will partly be a 3-camera multi-clip project, and have begun to batch capture.
Logged all but one tape some weeks ago, and captured one tape at the time.
Went to batch capture the balance, today. First tape capture went fine. On trying to capture the next tape in the batch I'm getting this message as FCP begins the process:
WARNING: You are about to capture drop-frame media to a non drop-frame clip. If you proceed, you may experience changes in logged in and out points, problems relinking media, or removal of master clip relationships.
In analyzing the situation, the only reason I can think of for the error message is that some of the reels were logged on a DSR-11 that had been set to NON drop-frame, and for which I didn't have the remote control to change the setting.
I haven't run into this while capturing other clips, but those may have been captured via a different deck that does only drop-frame.
So, I'm looking at next steps:
1: Capture anyway and possibly regret that I did that.
(One person on another list reported the same problem, that he had ignored it without any obvious complications.)
2: Relog all the problem clips using my current deck, speeding up the process by using the "go to" window to drive the tape to the existing in and out points and then marking i/o's...
Or...
Suggestions?
Thanks,
Ted.

We've been seeing this stupid error message since v3 and it's never mattered in the slightest. It is always incorrect, anyway. The clips are always drop and the sequences are always drop. It's an FCP programming glitch/bug/screwup. Someday they may or may not fix the mechanism that triggers the warning.
bogiesan

Two camera footage: one drop frame, one non-drop frame

We recently were delivered a batch of tapes for a two camera project that we're doing the post work on. The timecode was jammed to synch the two cameras. Unfortuantely, one of the cameras seems to be drop and the other non-drop. As a result, the tape that is showing as non-drop stops every couple of minutes for a timecode break in order to synch up with the jammed timecode.
The reality is that there is no break in footage in the sense that this footage was recorded as a real-time 30 minute presentation, but because timecode is being jammed, and because the tape was being recorded in non-drop frame, Final Cut cannot capture this footage in its entirety.
My only thought would be to capture through S-video out and place the footage on a timeline, and force the sequence timecode with the appropriate timecode.
Has anyone run into this issue before and know a better solution? Or if the above solution will work?

Update: Rather than S-Video, we're setting the FCP capture setting to non-controllable device. That will give it higher quality, and so far, that is capturing just fine without the breaks.

Digitizing Pre-Logged Clips: Drop Frame/Non-Drop Frame Discrepency

I have about 100hrs of DV NTSC footage that has been logged and now I need to capture it.
Everything seemed good to go:
• I ctrl+click the clip intended to capture
• Select 'batch capture' (it initializes)
• Settings are (apple setting) DV NTSC 48kHz
• I click okay and I get an error message that reads:
"WARNING: You are about to capture drop-frame media to a non-drop frame clip. If you proceed, you may experience changes in logged in and out points, problems relinking media, or removal of master clip relationships."
Now, the setting noted above is set at 29.97 not 30.
I tried to see if there was anything I could select/deselect in the logged clips and came up dry.
I made duplicated the apple setting and changed the fps to 30. This yielded no error message but did on the second clip I tried.
Does anyone have any idea on how I should be troubleshooting this?
Due to the high volume of footage, and workflow schedule, I'd really rather not screw this up.
I turn to you my faithful FCP gurus.
Thanks.
Ian
p.s. I'm running FCP v.5.1.4

Just check your timecode accuracy before you get any further... i.e. does the timecode in the captured clip match the code that's on the tape. If so, you're good to go on... if not, I'd recapture using the proper TC... it's pretty easy if you do it from the tape in the Log and Capture window.
Jerry

Drop Frame/Non-Drop Frame Warning

Hi,
First off, thank you to the experienced people out there who take the time to explain things and answer these questions.
About the following warning:
Warning: You are about to capture drop-frame media to a non-drop frame clip. If you proceed, you may experience changes in logged in and out points, problems relinking media, or removal of master clip relationships.
I logged about 40 clips by entering In and Out points (from a piece of paper), turned on my camera, went to Batch Capture, and it gave me this warning. I read a little bit about timecode (I know little about it) and realized that I didn't use semi-colons when entering my timecode in the Log and Capture window. Apparently this is important; I have a Panasonic GS500.
I captured anyway, and I have all the video I want; the "handles" inherent in the In and Out points I used should accomodate even several seconds of any timecode discrepancy.
My question: When I am done editing and go to recapture my sequences at full DV quality, will there be a difference between the In and Out points of my clips and the tape? Have I mis-captured media files in some way? How can I tell if the Media Start and Media End information isn't out of sync?
Cyrus

Just check your timecode accuracy before you get any further... i.e. does the timecode in the captured clip match the code that's on the tape. If so, you're good to go on... if not, I'd recapture using the proper TC... it's pretty easy if you do it from the tape in the Log and Capture window.
Jerry

Drop AND Non-Drop?

If I had my way, all my FCPX templates would work at whole numbers of fps.
However it is polite to consider the colonies that don't use that standard, I also have to muck about with drop and non-drop timecode.
At the moment, I seem to have both at the same time...
Does anyone know how to control the timecode and timeline display so they both show drop or non-drop timecode?
@alex4d

Only two project settings use drop frame: 29.97 NTSC and 59.94 NTSC (23.98 NTSC is non-drop).
Best thing I could recommend is to add a Timecode generator to the project and manually set it for the alternate version from the Timecode base option. So if you have a 29.97 (non-drop) project, set the Timecode generator to 29.97 Drop, or vice versa. Or easier -- add two TC generators and set one to drop and the other to non-drop.
HTH

How to tell if video is drop frame or non-drop frame in Encore? Need info to use correct SCC file.

Hi,
Thanks in advance. I am using Encore DVD 2.0 to add closed captions to video. I have both a drop frame SCC file and a non-drop frame SCC file. How can I tell which one to use? Can I tell from the way the timecode looks on the timeline? Do I look at the timeline timecode or the source timecode? For example, in a random area of video the timeline says 00;02;50;24 while the source says 00:02:50:20.
Thanks.

Thanks jbowden and Jim for your help. Although I'm still not real clear how Encore notes DF vs NDF (more on that below), I got my problem solved.
Regarding DF vs NDF in Encore DVD...There doesn't seem to be a real consistent method of identifying which is which. For example, Jim suggested that I look in the Project panel for the colons vs semicolons. There, the video file timecode was shown as xx;xx;xx;xx with semicolons, apparently suggesting that it is DF. However, the timeline and audio file listed in the project panel also showed semicolons in the timecode. Then, down on the timeline, the timeline was shown as xx;xx;xx;xx while right next to that it said "Source xx:xx:xx:xx" with colons! So, if I go by the project panel, the video is DF. If I go by what it says down in the timeline, the video is NDF. As it turns out, subtitles and CC only match up if I use the NDF versions of them, not with the DF versions, which indicates that my file was NDF. So, in the end, I'd say that the way the timecode is represented in the project panel didn't mean anything, at least not in this case.

Edit to tape confusing drop frame and non drop frame

This is a re-creation of a dead thread I found from June 6, 2006. This is the exact problem this other user was having.
OS 10.4.7
FCP 5.0.4
Dual G5 2.5
4.5 GB RAM
KONALH
Trying to edit to a Sony DVW-A500 (Digibeta) in Drop Frame mode.
Read Below for deets.
Problem: When working with a drop-frame sequence, and editing to tape, the program is edited to the tape with an offset of 3 seconds and 18 frames at the end of one hour.
Reproducible: Yes.
Steps to Reproduce:
1. Create a drop-frame sequence.
2. Edit the sequence in step 1.
3. Perform an edit to tape with the sequence edited in step 2.
What should happen: The sequence should be edited to tape at the time it occurs in the timeline.
What does happen: The sequence is edited to the tape 3 seconds and 18 frames after it should be!
Other observations: 3 seconds and 18 frames is exactly how much time is not in an hour of drop-frame time when compared to non-drop frame time. If you drop two (2) frames in every minute that does not end in zero, the math works out to 2*54=108 dropped frames in an hour. For the sake of simple mathematics, lets say there are 30 frames in a second. So 108/30= 3 with a remainder of 18, or 3 seconds and 18 frames.
It's as if FCP is getting confused about drop and non-drop timecode when the sequence is drop-frame. If anyone can offer any insights, confirmation, or resolutions for what I am seeing, it would be appreciated.
Thanks for reading!

So is the timeline a drop frame timeline, starting at 1:00:00:00?
And then is the DBeta tape prestriped (at least enough to do an assemble edit) to start the program at 01:00:00:00?
In other words, is the FCP timeline timecode matching the Dbeta tape timecode in a 1:1 relationship before you attempt to Edit to Tape?
Thinking further: FCP can't really confuse the two timecodes, it's dependent on the operator to tell it what to do. When it outputs it's not outputing timecode or looking even really looking for timecode. It's looking for your IN point in the Edit to Tape tool.
Message was edited by: loyed256

Non Drop frame capture causing out of sync clip?

Hi, All,
I've been having trouble with sync issues on an hour long tape capture.
The material was captured from a Canon consumer DV cam (z80) using firewire into my powerbook g4. (The material on the dv tape was originally recorded in Video 8mm and transfered to the Canon via firewire from a modern Sony Digital 8 camera.)
The sync on the DV tape looks fine when I play it back through the Canon camera. So I'm guessing that I might be losing sync because the camera is dropping frames that don't want to be dropped. I tried to change the video capture settings to non drop frame (in the device control tab of FCP5's audio video settings preference window,) but as soon as I start the capture from the canon, the settings on my log capture window automatically revert back to drop frame. (I don't know this for a fact, but I do notice that the ":" in the timecode box turns back to ";" every time I start the capture.
Does this sound like it is, in fact, a drop frame problem? And if so, is there any hope of getting a canon consumer camcorder to capture at non drop frame rates?

Well, after trying most of the suggestions here, I did find a reasonably hassle free workaround to capturing the hour and fifteen minute footage of 8 bit 32 kHz video to FCP with minimal sync slippage over the length of the footage.
I finally gave up on capturing the material in FCP and instead hooked the canon z80 up to an old version of Toast Platinum 6 I had on my computer. Toast creates a raw quicktime movie file with the extension .dv. Toast then allows you to edit that quicktime file, add chapters, button pictures, etc. thereby making a new file to replace the raw QT it first created. After some experimentation, I discovered that the original raw QT file Toast creates can simply be dragged intact to the FCP browser window, where it becomes a clip with minimal sync problems. I would caution against trying to use the second improved QT file that Toast creates after you've edited your file, as this second QT movie seems less stable than the raw one it first creates.
A final caveat for Toast users. Make sure you set the preferences so that they don't DELETE the original file it creates. There are settings that will tell Toast to do just that either After a Day, After a Week, When You Close the Program or Never. I'd set that to Never, since it can be highly unpleasant to discover that your program has deleted the very file you were planning to work with.
Hope this is of some help.
Thanks to all who pitched in and offered suggestions. Your help has been invaluable!
I now mark this issue Solved. Or at least as Solved as I plan to get it!

What's the deal with Drop-Frame / Non-Drop-Frame Timecode?

I'm having trouble with 30fps Drop-Frame and 30fps Non-Drop-Frame timecode formats! I thought 29.97fps means 30fps Drop-Frame, but now I'm all confused.
I'm working with DSLR footage filmed with a frame rate of 29.97. For example, this one clip is listed as (in Project panel)
Media Start: 11:16:11:23
Media End: 11:22:42:22
Duration: 00:06:31:00
Frame Rate: 29.97fps
If I open this clip directly in Source Monitor, the timecode display (yellow, on lower left corner) says 11:16:11:23 at the beginning and 11:22:42:23 at the end. OK. But if I right-click on the timecode display, the pop-up indicates "Non-Drop-Frame"(!!). If I manually change that to "Drop-Frame", the start and end timecode would become 11:16:52:11 and 11:23:23:23, and the duration display (white, on lower right corner) becomes 6:31:12.
Now I create a new sequence of 1080p30, which has a 29.97fps time base. I right-click the yellow timecode display on the upper left corner of the Timeline, it says "30fps Drop-Frame". I drag the said clip onto the sequence. It occupies a length of 6:31:12. If I double-click the clip to open it in Source Monitor, now the Source Monitor timecode display indicates "Drop-Frame", and the start/end timecodes are 11:16:52:11 and 11:23:23:23. Huh??
Now I apply the "Timecode" effect on the clip. The timecode burn-in says 11:16:51:11 at the first frame and 11:23:23:22 at the last frame. I then go to the Effect Controls tab and look at the Timecode effect. It says
Format: SMPTE
Timecode Source: Media
Time Display: 30 Drop Frame
Just playing around, I switch "Timecode Source" to "Clip" - now the timecode burn-in goes from 00:00:00:00 to 00:06:31:11 - and then I switch it back to "Media". Now the Effect Controls tab says:
Format: SMPTE
Timecode Source: Media
Time Display: 30 Non-Drop Frame
And the timecode burn-in says 11:16:11:23 at the first frame and 11:22:42:22 at the last frame!
HUH??
Just for kickers, I switch "Timecode Source" to "Clip" again... Now "Time Display" stays on "30 Non-Drop Frame", and the timecode burn-in goes from 00:00:00:00 to 00:06:30:29.
What's the REAL length of this clip? Is it drop-frame or non-drop-frame? What are the REAL timecodes for it?
Also in a general sense, since I can change the "Time Display" field in the Timecode effect at any time, and change the Timecode display format of the Timeline at any time... How do I avoid creating mismatching timecodes??
Thanks in advance for any clarification!!

So obviously, only one of them could be "correct" in terms of reflecting what actually happened. The other one is slightly sped-up or slowed-down. You might say "oh that's a tiny difference, it doesn't matter".
Zooropa75, just for matter of clarification I want to make sure you understand that no matter which you use, it won't actually speed up or slow down your video. TC, wether it is non-drop or drop, is only a counting system. For that reason, it doesn't even matter which you use to reference edits, so long as everyone editing uses the same TC basis.
If you want actual time accurate TC, as was already mentioned, use drop-frame.
I'm going to kill two birds here. The "drag clip to new sequence button" action I was referring to in my earlier post is dragging your clip to the icon seen below. It should create a timeline using your videos format.
Also, remember I recommended looking in the manuel for "actual" time used? You can see below a snapshot I took from your cameras manuel. You're not shooting in whole numbers for anything unless you're using the 50hz system and shooting at 50p. That is the ONLY exception. ...and this is good for everyone to remember. Very few US digital cameras shoot frames per second in whole numbers. If it says you're shooting in 24p, 30p, 60p, etc. ad nauseum, you can bet your biscuits it's actually the multi-decimal NTCS counterparts like you see below And that should be your final answer. *chuckle*

Sony DSR PD-170 Non-Drop Frame Footage

I recorded footage on my PD-170 in non-drop frame (NDR) and went to capture my footage into Final Cut Pro. I changed my sequence settings to NDR and I went to Batch Capture some clips and after each one it told me that my PD-170 was in drop-frame mode and that by trying to capture NDR footage off a camera set to drop-frame I was likely to get some timecode issues.
Anyone seen this before and/or know how to fix it? Thanks.

We get the same message with our PD170 (and also PD150) using drop frame footage. We have never had any time code issues by going ahead with the capture.

Capturing non-drop-frame as drop-frame??

I have to capture a bunch of amateur tapes shot with various cameras. Ultimate destination is NTSC DV. I have a sense that if I capture the non-drop-frame in a standard NTSC DV setup that I might have some buggy problems. Or at least the batch capture is telling me so.
I've never come across this problem before. What should I do? I'm just trying to build a movie database for a CEO using all the stuff he's collected from various sources - wanting all the captured material to be easily editable in FCP.
Any help would be most appreciated,
Ben

Well, after trying most of the suggestions here, I did find a reasonably hassle free workaround to capturing the hour and fifteen minute footage of 8 bit 32 kHz video to FCP with minimal sync slippage over the length of the footage.
I finally gave up on capturing the material in FCP and instead hooked the canon z80 up to an old version of Toast Platinum 6 I had on my computer. Toast creates a raw quicktime movie file with the extension .dv. Toast then allows you to edit that quicktime file, add chapters, button pictures, etc. thereby making a new file to replace the raw QT it first created. After some experimentation, I discovered that the original raw QT file Toast creates can simply be dragged intact to the FCP browser window, where it becomes a clip with minimal sync problems. I would caution against trying to use the second improved QT file that Toast creates after you've edited your file, as this second QT movie seems less stable than the raw one it first creates.
A final caveat for Toast users. Make sure you set the preferences so that they don't DELETE the original file it creates. There are settings that will tell Toast to do just that either After a Day, After a Week, When You Close the Program or Never. I'd set that to Never, since it can be highly unpleasant to discover that your program has deleted the very file you were planning to work with.
Hope this is of some help.
Thanks to all who pitched in and offered suggestions. Your help has been invaluable!
I now mark this issue Solved. Or at least as Solved as I plan to get it!

Drop Frame vs. Non Drop Frame

I am a little confused about setting the option in FCP before capture for NDF/DF.
I read somewhere that all footage captured on DV is NDF, but I'm not sure if that is accurate. What if you don't know if something was shot in DF or NDF? Yikes!
I have some 24p footage and some 24p adv. that I will be importing into a 23.98 timeline (using Cinema Tools for the standard 24p footage). Later on I will be bringing in some "regular" miniDV footage (non-progressive, I guess interlaced) and whatever format I can get archival footage on - and I have NO IDEA whether that would be DF or NDF.
I was planning on capturing with the appropriate easy set-up options for each type of footage, but am wondering if the DF/NDF issue will cause a problem.
If I set the whole thing for NDF, and something was shot as DF, what might occur? Should I be scared since I have no idea which one I should go with?!
Feeling a little stupid but better I ask, I suppose -
thank you for any brilliant insights and/or advice.
(bringing in footage first on a Sony DSR-20, then switching to a DSR-11 when I the owner of the DSR-20 takes it back)
15" Powerbook G4 Mac OS X (10.4.8) 1 GHz, 1 GB SDRAM, 60 GB HD
15" Powerbook G4 Mac OS X (10.4.8) 1 GHz, 1 GB SDRAM, 60 GB HD
15" Powerbook G4 Mac OS X (10.4.8) 1 GHz, 1 GB SDRAM, 60 GB HD

Thank you for your responses.
I know a bit about what happens with drop frame or non-drop frame, and that essentially for NTSC at 29.97 I can choose either DF or NDF, but I'm using a 23.98 timeline, not sure if that makes the answer different. I'm trying to extend my understanding of DF/NDF to think about what will happen if something was shot in DF but captured in NDF or vice-versa, and whether working in a 23.98 timeline will mean I should pick one over the other.
Also I'm not clear about whether my choice to keep the timeline DF or NDF will affect my output choice.
The embarrassing thing is that I was the shooter on a lot of my footage (mostly a Panasonic DVX100a, plus 6 hours on a DVX100) - never remember setting DF or NDF. oops. Also as I mentioned I have no idea what the archival stuff will be at, but I think I can import that into whatever I have my timeline set at --
sorry I'm still foggy about the implications of choosing DF or NDF for my capture setting, and which one I should choose.
15" Powerbook G4 Mac OS X (10.4.8) 1 GHz, 1 GB SDRAM, 60 GB HD

Drop-Frame v. Non-Drop Frame and Edit to Tape

System Configuration: G5 Dual 2.0, QT v7.0.4, FCP v5.0.4, OS X v10.4.6, KonaLH, Keyspan USA-28x USB-->Serial Adapter
Problem: When working with a drop-frame sequence, and editing to tape, the program is edited to the tape with an offset of 3 seconds and 18 frames.
Reproducible: Yes.
Steps to Reproduce:
1. Create a drop-frame sequence.
2. Edit the sequence in step 1.
3. Perform an edit to tape with the sequence edited in step 2.
What should happen: The sequence should be edited to tape at the time it occurs in the timeline.
What does happen: The sequence is edited to the tape 3 seconds and 18 frames after it should be!
Other observations: 3 seconds and 18 frames is exactly how much time is not in an hour of drop-frame time when compared to non-drop frame time. If you drop two (2) frames in every minute that does not end in zero, the math works out to 2*54=108 dropped frames in an hour. For the sake of simple mathematics, lets say there are 30 frames in a second. So 108/30= 3 with a remainder of 18, or 3 seconds and 18 frames.
It's as if FCP is getting confused about drop and non-drop timecode when the sequence is drop-frame. If anyone can offer any insights, confirmation, or resolutions for what I am seeing, it would be appreciated.
Thanks for reading!

This may be related to a "bug" or issue that has been around since FCP1. When FCP is using deck control over firewire, The timecode display will default to DF, even if the tape is NDF. Look closely at the timecode dispays in the edit to tape window. If you see a semicolon before the frames place, FCP is seeing the tape TC as DF. Play the tape until you see the TC display change to NDF, then re-set your in point. This has worked for me in the past.
Hope this helps.

Drop Frame being read as Non-Drop Frame

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