Dropped Frames w/ Ae Dynamic Link Comps Using BMD (on Playback)

Hey guys,
This problem started exibiting itself a couple weeks ago. Hoping for some feedback regarding possible problems other than just bad performance with my BMD Hardware.
The following is the system it's occuring on:
2009 2.93Ghz/16GB 8-Core MacPro
Adobe CS5 - Latest Updates
Internal Raid 0 - Footage Files
Internal 7200RPM - Project Files
Internal 7200RPM - OS
(all drives at 50% or more current capacity)
Stock GT120GFX
GTX285
Blackmagic Decklink Extreme 3D to HDLinkPro
2 Monitors (1 to each GFX card)
1 Plasma monitor out of the Decklink
Now that's out of the way, here's the scenario:
Using Blackmagic Design sequence presets in Premiere and Dyanamic Linking AE comps in the Premiere sequence . Playing back the sequence results in CS5 stopping playback because "Dropped Frames Detected"
This ONLY occurs in the following situations:
- with any BMD preset
- only unrendered (yellow) timeline comps
Rendering the timeline (sot it's green) results in uninterrupted playback
The comps have no problems in AE
Premiere exhibits no playback issues outside of BMD presets
Premiere exhibits no playback issues with other footage
All fingers point to something internal when in a BMD preset. But could a drive be failing? Something else?
Thanks.

Shouldn't this be normal behavior for a Dynamic Link AE comp? If it's dynamically linked, it means it's not rendered, so Premiere is trying to play the AE comp in realtime (like hitting the play button in AE without doing a RAM preview). If the comp in AE is simple enough that it will play realtime in AE without doing a RAM preview, but still will not play realtime in Premiere on a BMD timeline, it could be do to the RGB to YUV conversion. AE only outputs in RGB, while a Decklink card (unless otherwise set in the preferences) outputs in YUV, so it needs to do a RGB/YUV conversion when playing the AE comp, and that can slow things down.
I use a Decklink card and I find if I have a Dynamic Link comp in Premiere that stutters on playback, it will sometimes then play realtime after the initial playblack. I'm guessing Premiere might be caching the frames similar to an AE RAM preview.
Todd, I believe the playback resolution setting is ignored on a BMD timeline.

Similar Messages

Poor quality after timeline rendering of after effects dynamic link comp.

One of my typical workflows involves dynamic linking AE comps into Premiere- Often I can playback the timeline in Premiere without rendering and achieve great results with no dropped frames. This scenario is ideal since I need to play out sequences in premiere passing them through a Matrox MXO2 LE box to capture them on another system. However, I have noticed recently that if I need to render the Premiere sequences before playback because the dynamically linked AE comps are more complicated, I lose quite a bit of quality after rendering.I've searched around and read about different quality settings in both AE and PP and I can't seem to find any settings that affect this process. Pause and playback quality are both set to full, tried checking rendered maximum depth/quality in the sequence settings and I still can't get this right. I am perplexed since I would think that results would be better post-render.
Dynamic Linked Clip Unrendered
Dynamic Linked Clip Rendered:
-A note about my settings:
AE comps:
720x480 (containing downscaled HD video)
PAR: D1/DV NTSC (.91)
29.97fps
Resolution full 720x480 1.3 MB per 8bpc frame
PP Sequences:
720x480 (.9091)
29.97p
WINDOWS 7 - Adobe CC
Intel Xeon(R) 12 cores 2.40ghz
Nvidia Quadro 4000
12g RAM

The video preview settings were set to DV NTSC. I'm not sure why I didn't think to look at those settings. I went ahead and downloaded the Ut Video Codec Suite and things are now looking great - just like they do when I do not render the sequences. I am noticing now that my HD sequences usually are setup to use Matrox's Mpeg2 I frames only codec.
Is the lossless codec choice always the best/most efficent choice to be used for the preview codec? I assume if I was not dynamic linking I should match this codec with the codec of the files in my sequence, is this correct?

Dropped Frames Warning after matching clip settings using Animation codec.

I have a 720 x 540 px animation exported as a QT movie from a 3D program, using the animation codec. I'm bringing it into Final Cut 6, placing it on the timeline and allowing FC to change its sequence settings to match those of the clip so it won't need to be rendered.
If I duplicate the clip several times, placing the duplicates back to back, the sequence plays w/ no problem. If I introduce a different clip, a generated slug or even leave a gap on the timeline I get the Dropped Frames Warning on the very last frame of the clip, right before the play head would move to the first frame of the new clip, or the slug, or the gap where there's nothing on the timeline.
If I initially bring in a clip that's been compressed using PNG and have Final Cut change its sequence settings to match those of the clip, everything plays flawlessly. Same thing using None compression. Plays fine. If I leave FC at its default settings and render the clips after I place them on the timeline, they play fine and I don't get the warning. I only get the warning when I have FC match the settings of a clip using the Animation codec.
I'm running 10.6.8 on a Mac Pro 2.8 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon w/ 16 GB Ram. My boot drive is an SSD and my video media is stored on a 2nd internal 7200 RPM HD.
I did read on another forum that the Animation codec tends not to perform so well in FC. I'm wondering if that's the problem or if it's hardware related?

Turn the warning off:
Go to the menu Final Cut Pro > User Preferences and on the General Pane, uncheck the Report dropped frames during playback box. Then click OK.
The warning only alerts you that FCP can't call up and display the frames fast enough to play in real time, so it is dropping frames - during playback.
When you are done editing, you will export the finished file from FCP into the deliverable format you want, during that process every frame of your timeline will be added to the exported file.
And yes, playing back in Animation Codec is real heavy lifting for FCP.
MtD

In CS6, why does my Ae dynamic link comp not stay rendered in Pr after render/save?

I create a composition in Ae. Import the file and dynamic link to desired composition in Pr. Render a native timeline. Save it, then either go back a few minutes later or open the project again and the render preview is gone, requiring another full render to playback smoothly. Are my preview files being discarded or something of that nature?

Try my workaround and let me know if it makes a difference:
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1144624?tstart=30

Program monitor constantly freezing/stalling when playing dynamically linked After Effects comps

I'm having program monitor issues when I try to play dynamically linked After Effects comps from my Premiere timeline. I realize it's expected to have jerky playback since After Effects comps are memory and CPU intense, but it doesn't seem normal for these things to happen:
Sometimes during playback, the program monitor completely freezes while audio continues to play and the CTI continues to move along timeline. When this happens, there's no way to stop the playback at all using mouse or keyboard... so I'm forced to just quit Premiere and re-open project.
Program monitor can also freeze when I place the CTI on top of the After Effects comp. Sometimes if I wait a minute, the screen could update and eventually display the After Effects comp.
I'm unable to render effects on the Premiere timeline because it just hangs at "Rendering frame 0" and never advances forward.
There's nothing special about the After Effects comp I'm linked to... it could just be regular text that I animated using ease keyframes and motion blur.
I originally thought it was related to GPU settings but it doesn't make a difference if I set After Effects to use CPU instead of GPU or set Premiere's Mercury Playback engine to software, CUDA, or openGL. I even have the latest CUDA drivers installed on my Mac. But I must mention that this issue got significanly worst after updating to OSX 10.9 Mavericks.
Here's my system details:
OSX 10.9 Mavericks
Premiere 7.0.1 (105)
After Effects 12.0.1.7 (I installed the OS X Mavericks crash update fix)
The most prevalent error messages displayed in the OSX console is:
Adobe Premiere Pro CC[402]: dynamic_cast error 1: Both of the following type_info's should have public visibility. At least one of them is hidden. N5dvaui2ui8MessageTIKNS0_7UI_NodeEEE, N5dvaui8controls23UI_PictureSupplyMessageE.
Here's a few that are less common:
Adobe Premiere Pro CC[402]: [PremiereCocoaMacApplication handleMenuCommand:1633841013 from <DVAMacMenuItem: 0x6100002f8300 About Premiere Pro>]
After Effects[377]: -[NSMenu menuID]: unrecognized selector sent to instance 0x600000077080
If anybody has any ideas or suggestions, I would really appreciate it.
Thanks,
-Pete

I think I found the problem... OSX Mavericks introduced a power saving feature called App Nap that basically slows down an app that appears to be doing nothing or is minimized in the background.
So essentually when I try to display an After Effects dynamically linked comp via my Premiere timeline, it freezes because OSX put After Effects to sleep.
To fix this, I had to disable the App Nap feature on After Effects. Now everything is performing back at pre-Mavericks levels (which is about 10% stalling playback issues vs 90% stalling). I also noticed that all of the console errors went away.
To disable App Nap in OSX...
Go to your Applications folder
Expand the After Effects CC folder
Right-click on "Adobe After Effects CC.app" and select Get Info
Add a checkmark beside "Prevent App Nap"
Restart the application
I also did this with all my Adobe apps just to be safe.
Hope this helps
-Pete

Dynamic Link Error (trying to render the Comp)

Using Premiere Pro CC and After Effects CC:
AE won't let me render a lossless video from a comp I created using Dynamic Link inside Premiere. The workflow I'm currently trying to use is to lay out all my clips in Premiere, dynamic link to AE for denoise, grading, sharpening, add grain, stabilize, etc, render a lossless clip in AE, and then replace the dynamic link comp in the Premier timeline. Unfortunately I get an error everytime I try to render my Comp from AE. It will render a single frame using "Save Frame As" but it errors out with a sequence (.avi, .mov, and I even tried a targa sequence).
I'm running a Windows 7 64 bit workstation.

Can you create a comp from scratch not using the footage from Premiere and render a lossless video from the timeline? Can you create a simple comp in AE using your footage original footage without effects and render a lossless version? Can you apply the same filters applied to the comps that crash to any footage a successfully render?
If the answer to question 1 is yes and the answer to question 2 is no then we need to know all about the original footage. What codec, frame rate, what camera. If the answer to question 3 is no then we need to know exactly what the filters are. An error message or crash report would also help.
Without answers to these questions it's nearly impossible to tell what is going on because we don't have enough information.

Using Dynamic Link for projects cut in Premiere and effects in AE.. Rendering Question..

Hello,
So this baffles me. I've been working a lot in Premiere CC lately with ProResHQ green screen material. I send the sequence or individual clips using After Effects by right clicking on the clip in Premiere and selecting Create After Effects Composition...
So I do my thing and when it comes time to render, I select render from IN to OUT in Premiere and wait. Now here's my question. If I select render in Premiere, it will be very sluggish until I click on the After Effects icon in my dock which brings the app to the foreground again. For some reason, this will dramatically accelerate my render speeds in premiere after I re-select the AE app. Why is this doing this?
I'm using a new Mac Pro trashcan tower 3.5 clock speed. 64GB ram. Dual D700 graphics card. I am using a USB3.0 drive for my editing and the internal drive on the tower for the scratch. I'm getting a Lacie 1TB little bigdisk thunderbolt2 that will be my prime scratch and video location for future stuff.
Thanks for your help -
R

Generally speaking, there is no 'one & only' proper workflow. Just keep in mind the following:
- not all effects and transitions are properly translated when travelling from PrPro to AE;
- in Dynamic Link scenario PrPro communicates with AE projects via single instance of headless AE, which creates a bottleneck. See this good old thread on Dynamic Link workflow, pay attention to Todd's comments;
- since AE allows to set a DI as a proxy to dynamically linked comp, with reasonable amount of dynamically linked comps in PrPro project you can enjoy the best of both worlds, instantly switching between a DI and dynamically linked comp back and forth with no needs to replace anything in PrPro timeline. Test on your own with which amount of dynamically linked comps setting DIs as proxies still work. For my rig test 30 min sequence built out of 935 dynamically linked comps, which are just source footages in their own comps, hence, the equivalent to rendered DIs set to proxies, takes around 27 hours to render, while 30 min sequence built out of the same 935 source footages renders in real time.

Adobe Media Encoder CC Fails To Dynamically Link Embedded AE Comps Within PR.

When launching a PR project in Media Encoder to kick off a render. The dynamic link engine loads the PR sequence just fine but during the render it fails to read any clips that were "relaced with AE comp", instead inserting an "offline media" plate. Launching the PR project and reviewing as well as rendering from within PR works fine. Please note that this worked fine in Adobe Media Encoder CS6.
*****Edit
In doing some tests to consistently replicate the problem, it turns out that AE CC has to be open WITH the replaced clip comps loaded at the time PR OR Media Encoder is running with projects that contain the "replaced with AE comps" footage. Repeating the test with AE CC closed at the time yields the "offline media" result. This is definitely a bug I'd say. AE should not have to be launched with the project files loaded up in order for any dynamically linked comps to work.
****Edit
Please note the entire product chain is CC. Thank you.

Update.....
Problem solved.
It turns out that any dynamically linked CC apps must be run by the same user on the same machine in order to work properly. In this case, PR and AME were being run as a standard user on the workstation while AE was being run as administrator via the shortcut launch properties. The latter being necessary to have certain plugins function properly in AE CC. Modifying the AE shortcut to not run as administrator resolves dynamic linking issues.
Although it can be argued that logically all Adobe apps should be run by the "same user" on the workstation, it would be nice for the dynamic link engine to be more "real world" about linking projects on the same workstation in the case where a particular resource needs to be launched as an administrator. Security considerations in towe, this ain't top secret government or banking data risk management folks. Lighten up. Maybe a little warning box that pops up and says "such and such needs to be run as administrator....do you allow?".....after all this is EXACTLY what the OS does anyway when you launch as anyone other than the administrator from a shortcut. Quite reasonable for you (Adobe) to simply cascade the behavior.

In cs6, my preview files are not saving on my Dynamic Link AE comps when i reopen the project

i cant figure out the life of me what seems to be the problem
This has been going on for a long time for me, dont know if anybody else has this problem, but for me, when i render out the whole entire sequence, everthing has the green bar, i save, i quit and reopen, the red bar appears and i have to re render all the Dynamic link comps again! its really annoying, i feel like its just collecting more space every time i do this
Any fix for this, and here are my specs
Macbook Pro early 2011
Processor 2.2 GHz Intel Core i7
Memory 8 GB 1333 MHz DDR3
Graphics AMD Radeon HD 6750M 1024 MB
and im running mountain lion

It happens sometimes that preview files get lost. There's no definitive fix yet, but you could try this:
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1144624?tstart=30

Dynamic Link Playback Issues

Even if I "Render Enire Work Area" my dynamic linked comps will not playback without stuttering and dropping frames, I've just been rendering QT's out of AE as a workaround, but how do I get this to work for real??
1920x1080 uncompressed QT is my source footage.
Mac
Nvidia 4000m (mercury playback is working fine) I can play Red in realtime no problem.)
48 gigs ram
I realize AE's render engine is used for dynamic link playback, but I render in Premiere shouldn't there be a render file that premiere can playback without stuttering and dropping frames.

Try "Render Entire Sequence" instead.

Premiere and After Effects CS4 Dynamic Link "glitches"

I am no longer able to use dynamic link when I try to link to multiple AE compositions from Premiere.
What happens is, when playing the sequence back in premiere, there are random frames in the dynamic link clip that are out of order. For example if I have two compositions, A and B, each 1 second, and they are in my Premiere project, the playback might do something crazy like this:
Should be (frames):
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
Really:
AAABAAAAAAAAAABBAAAAAAAABBABABABABBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
I'm not sure if there is any pattern to it, but dynamic link is just not working. I thought this might be a preview issue, so I tried rendering it and I got the same incorrect sequence as the preview. I've tried things like removing and adding the compositions again, or deleting the media cache, but this always randomly comes up.
My only option has been to export in AE (and when doing uncompressed that can use a lot of disk space).
Any ideas as to how to solve this? Or is dynamic link just a broken feature?

Well that was stupid. I had to rename the compositions (they were created from Premiere so the automatic names had a trailing number). Then I had to reimport the comps and place them over the old broken ones (clearing the cache didn't seem to help with those).
After replacing with comps without numbers and clearing all of the caches, it seems to be working so far.
I can't believe this bug even exists. Especially when the "Replace with After Effects composition" will repro the bugs. Sounds like poor testing on Adobe's part.
At the very least this should be documented somewhere officially. I was able to find this post on the web after looking up this specific issue: http://www.digitalrebellion.com/blog/posts/adobe_dynamic_link_troubleshooting.html

Dynamic Link does not open Project on 2nd computer

Has anyone run into this situation?
Creating a Premiere ver CS6 project on the mac and creating a dynamic linked comp in Premiere to a After Effects comp works well until the project file is shared with another computer that did not create the project.
When the files are opened on another MAC, same CS6 version the Premiere project will not open. It cannot find the linked comp. It will NOT open the project file what so ever! I go back to the original computer that created the project and render out the AE linked comp files and import them as movies by replacing the dynamic linked comp files then resave the project. (Note: I have not deleted the comp files in the project, only on the timeline). I then try to open the files from the other computer the Premiere project will still NOT open. Again, back to the original computer that created the file, open the project and DELETE in the project pane any files that are AE linked comp files, even though they are NOT being used now in the timeline, resave the project, now the project will OPEN on the other computer.
All these files are on a standalone portable drive, the Premiere project scratch files are all specified to be on this standalone drive as well when the project is opening. It seems if any file is a "Linked comp file" and is not opened on the computer that created it, it will not open the project file. It does not act like a misplaced, missing file that it will ask you to located the file, or will still open the project regardless if it cannot find the file(s).
if your sharing project files or getting a new computer and try to open up a project file from the previous computer with linked comps you will NOT be able to do so. This has been my experience so far with CS6 on the Mac.
Regards
Steve

Please don't double-post. Duplicate post deleted.

Dynamic Link Blending Modes

Hello Premiere Pro´s
Is there a way where an After Effects Dynamic Linked comp imported into Premiere Pro can preserve its blending modes to the outside layers in a sequence?
A little like the logic of the continuously rasterize option that exists in After Effects.

That´s what i was suspecting, but that feature would be a great add. ( Plus solving another workflow issue i´m having also with dinamic lynk. )
My feature is very heavy on the use of dynamic linking. And in this case i have a Premiere sequence "edit" that i would like to be imported into AFX via dinamic link - then compose FX on top and then re-import that AFX Comp into the same Premiere Project into a "final" sequence. But this workflow gives me loop redundancy problem that makes Premiere dont update its dynamic linking, unless i close and open the app.
So my second try was importing the "effects ae comp" into premiere and hope there could be some workaround where the blending modes could pass into dinamic link, like the logic of the continuously rasterize option.
But thanks for the reply and help, Jo.
Regards

Dropped Frames & Firewire Busses - A Discussion

A side discussion broke out on this recent thread:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=231733&tstart=0
and because this discussion is OT to the thread, I thought it might be helpful to start a new on-topic thread.
A number of FCP users have experienced dropped frames when capturing or outputting to tape while using a DV VCR/camcorder and a firewire drive for media on the same FW bus. There are many causes for dropped frames, but this discussion centers on the relationship between FW drives, DV devices, and using a single firewire bus.
Some say that having the DV device and the firewire media drive on the same bus can be a cause of dropped frames with some systems. Others disagree. I'm in the first camp, so I'll leave it to others to explain the other side.
I'm starting this thread to pick up where the side discussion on the thread linked above left off.
In response to Hughes Video:
If I'm reading your post correctly, my opinion is that your testing doesn't adequately address the real world situation. In practice, the FW port on the DV device is receiving data at 3.6MB/sec and buffering. Then it sends a data stream to the FW bus at about 12MB/sec, where is again buffered before being sent to the destination drive.
The benchmark test results you noted don't predict what happens in the real world when capturing a DV stream from a VCR/camcorder to a FW drive. To do that, you need to be able to report in a time graph what the throughput is for every 1/30 of a second while capturing.
I'm not sure that's what Adam Wilt has done, but he's told me that he's done thorough testing that proves the points he's made. I don't know what testing that entails.
I do know, as I posted in the other thread, that when those who are having dropped frames separate the DV device from the FW drive on separate busses, their problems resolve. I don't know the technical reason for that, but I theorize that it has to do with the data moving and buffering in both directions on the same bus simulteneously. If the bus speed is decreased when both devices are on the same bus (whether daisy-chained or on separate ports), I don't know. But I know the problem resolves when you separate them.

this begs the question though: how do users of an
imac or a mini get around the limitations of one
internal harddrive and one firewire bus?
zeb
They can't. iMac's are a consumer (and terribly sexy) computer. Make no mistake, if you are doing this for a living you need a PowerMac. Want less headaches with dropped frames and FW? Then take a closer look at better drives. G-Raid, Weibetech, and Granite Digital make the best out there, and invest in another FW 800 card for 'em. End of story.
Want to avoid dropped frames forever and ever with any video format? Forsake FW drives for fibre. SCSI is dying a slow but steady death IMHO.
Yeah, it all costs more, but you GET more (speed). Faster drives don't drop frames. Nothin' new there...
There is a tendancy with new users of NLE's to cut corners. Don't do that, because it results in unhappy NLEing.
Do I use FW drives? Of course I do, and use exclusively the above brands, I've clients who want to keep all media ever captured. (also a good idea) but I include in my invoices the cost of buying more FW drives to do the job. It works, I don't drop frames, have happy clients, and drop frame free system. I'm using the G-Raids for uncompressed storage and FW 800 Weibetech and Granite digital rigs for DV res storage. It works beautifully.
Jerry

After effects CC on maverick slow render because of PP CC Dynamic Link Footage

I put premiere pro CC edits in After Effects CC through dynamic Link every day. Since I upgraded my systems to Maverick and first installed the 12.0.1 and afterwards 12.1 the rendering of the After effects projects that have Dynamic Link Edits on the timeline slow down from 10 hours (in12.0 on Mountain Lion) to about 90 hours. When I replace the dynamic Link with a QT Movie, it renders about 10 hours again. It is normal that Dynamic link slows dow the rendering, but this is extreme and since this wasn't the case on Mountain Lion and 12.0 for the same project with the same dynamic link, not normal. I couldn't figure out what causes this. Is this Maverick on my 2008 Mac Pro ? is this a bug in 12.1 or dynamic link ? Or can I solve this with a simple setting somewhere in Maverick or AE ?

I'm was having the same issues, turned off "app nap" for premiere and after effects which has mostly fixed things.
The only thing now though is if I have a dynamic linked after effects composition within premiere and I have the after effects project open (that the composition came from) the dynamic linked comp within premiere won't play properly no matter what.
Tried everything I can find on the net - app nap, full screen full res rendering within after effects - that composition just won't play and take ages to render if the after effects project that it came from is open.
If I close the after effects project, the dynamically linked composition in premiere starts playing perfectly. Open the project in after effects and that dynamically linked comps stop playing. Any other dynamically linked comps from other AE sessions play fine within premiere (unless I open their original AE project!)
This used to work fine before - it was great to be able to have AE and premiere open together and make changes in AE then switch to premiere to see the changes update, watch the sequence to get context, then flick back to AE, make more changes etc.
Now I have to close the AE project, go to premiere, watch the sequence, open the AE project, make changes. When doing a few hundred adjustments over a week this can add considerable time to workflow!
Any ideas? Is this happening for you guys?

Dropped Frames w/ Ae Dynamic Link Comps Using BMD (on Playback)

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