Dual Channel DDR Vs. DDR Memory, etc.

So I'm in the process of upgrading again and was hoping to add a little more memory to my system. With all the different types of memory out there it starts to become a little confusing as to how much bang your going to get for your buck and the pitfalls of marketing ?( . Currently i'm looking into Dual Channel DDR since this is the new craze. I currently have 1 512MB stick of PC3200 DDR memory that I plan on replacing with 1GB (2) sticks of Dual Channel DDR PC3700 or PC4000. The difference is 60 bucks and I'm wondering...is it worth the extra cash for PC4000? It's Corsair memory which I currently have never had problems with but it is a little pricier than the generic memory out there.
Is it possible that the only reason to do something like this would be overclocking or is my system going to use the full extent I give it (Or am I putting myself in line so that my memory will be able to support future cpu, etc. upgrades). My specs are below, feel free to ask questions. I appreciate any replies in advance. )
Thanks again,
-MaD

Quote
Originally posted by Assaf
With both sticks in the same channel your not using dual channel.
A bios update could fix the RAM compatability problem.
So i\'ve been getting alot of crashes since i purchased this board but more so when I installed the new memory. This last round produced another error message that was logged with microsofts OCR tool. The debug information was submitted and handed back as a memory problem. I downloaded their DOS memory tool to test memory and tried the motherboard with a bunch of different configurations. Here\'s what I found:
4 different sticks of memory at any configuration produced Failures on WMATS+, WINVC and would eventually lockup the system.
I went to the processor....
3 different processors all generated failures with any of the same memory configurations.
I tested all memory sticks in a different system with no failure. It ran 5 passes and even an extended test without failure.
I disconnected my drives from the MB (currently running disk striping on IDE 3, not sure if that is even effective since they are both on the same ide channel. What's up with only one?? and 2 for SATA) and ran the same tests with the memory and none have failed. If i connect the drives and turn of the RAID bios once again all tests + extended pass.
So leads to my question...How do I fix this? I was running a Soyo P4X400 before with Disk striping on two seperate channels and I wanted to bring that same performance to this board. Not sure though if i\'m getting that though...let alone the current problem it has with memory when it\'s enabled.
Any help is appreciated, I dont mind being the Gunnuie pig if it helps other people in the process. I\'m just happy i dont have bad RAM, CPU, and possible the board. )

Similar Messages

Need help with Dual Channel DDR memory

Hi, I have a msi nvidia MOBO, K7N2G and it supports dual channel memory. The manual says to put one in 1 and one in 3. I did then it wont start. System gives the old beep.........beep.........beep. I have to patriot 512 ddr sticks. They work fine in slot 1 and 2 but not in "dual channel" mode. Do i have to do anything else in order to get these to work?? Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

hi
try slot 2&3.
what brand of memory?
what speed is the memory working in?
there is no option to disable or enable dual channel.
just put them in slot 1&3 or 2&3.
bye

865P Neo With Dual Channel DDR

I just got my Crucial 2x256 DDR400/PC3200 ram modules today and installed them and they are working fine. When I bootup it says "Dual Channel/Linear." My question is what would be the best way to overclock this computer. I have an Intel 2.8GHZ processor with an 800MHZ FSB. I tried using Fuzzy Logic to auto overclock the computer but it just locks up. It didn't start locking up until I installed this ram. I was wondering if Core Center would overclock or just what would be the best way to overclock this computer. I want to be able to reach 3ghz. Please reply I appreciate anyone's help.

Hi adamcn20,
Hmmm... To me... the Best way to o/c a system is always thru BIOS settings... As now you are running DDR 400 RAMs, be sure that you've set your settings to CAS 2-2-2-5/7-8burst and make sure that if you want stability lower them to run at 333MHz if not be sure that you've loosen enough stress off your RAMs at 400MHz...
All the Best... :D!!!

K8N Diamond - dual channel DDR in 4slots

Hi everybody.
That`s my first post here and It would be great if you guys could help me. I recently have searched the forum for an answer but i couldn`t found any.
I have MSI K8N Diamond main board and i recently added
Kingston ValueRAM 2x512MB 184Pin DIMM PC3200 DDRRAM Non-Parity CL3.
How can I make it work in dual channel mode with other two DIMMs. All four slots are full now - Before i put two DIMMs in first and third slot second and fourth slot was empty and it works fine.
All 4 DIMMs are the same.
Should I increase voltage somewhere in BIOS?
That`s the direct link to dabs.com where i bought this memory
http://www.dabs.com/ProductView.aspx?Quicklinx=2NDK
I`ve got ATHLON 64 3700+
I would appreciate any help.

Thanks qyx.
Timing was set up at 2T. I increase voltage to 2.7V and restarted computer. It was still Single Channel Mode...maybe because i didn`t switch it off. Then I switched off the computer and swap the modules in slots. 1st and 2nd ban kwith old ones and 3rd, 4th bank with new ones. Now it`s in dual channel mode. I`m confused because i don`t know what changes made them work in dual channel mode-my fault.....but it works fine....thanks a lot.
Bas, memory works at 200Mhz...befoure i bought other two dimms i didn`t know that it will affects the speed
Need to learn more about all that "complicated equipment"
Thanks again.

GNB Max MS-6565 and Dual Channel DDR ram

What's the deal with this new type of memory?
I can only find bits and pieces of information from online retail stores and I am bit frustrated.
Does anyone know where I can find more information?
Cheers

Quote
Originally posted by vaporas
I visited the forum. Thanks for the tip. :-)
Ok, you said that the MSI board cannot be overclocked. Fair enough, I guess you have tried it yourself.
If you increase the fsb speed to 170MHz, why not decrease the multiplier?
170MHz * 14 = 2.4 (2.38)
instead of,
170MHz * 18 = 3.06
Also, do you know whether the mainboards that you mentioned (by Asus and Gigabyte) will allow me to increase the fsb speed to 200MHz?
vaporas
The multiplyer cant be changed on the P4's, unless u have an engineering sample, and theres no way we [general public] could get one. Plus raising the FSB on the MSI board IS the problem, it scales the AGP/PCI with it, and doesnt allow u to increase the voltage for AGP and Mem. With the FSB on the asus and gigabyte, it'll be more CPU limited untill you get to about 210MHz, but I think you should be able to easily clear 170 FSB, if not 180FSB before anything becomes limiting...

Dual Channel memory problems on Neo 875P

I am having considerable trouble getting the NEO 875P to work with dual channel DDR400 DIMMs. I have two Kingston KVR400X64C25 DDR400 256MB memory modules, each of which works correctly by itself. However, once I move one
of the modules to channel B, I cannot boot my operating system (currently Windows XP.) The problem also occurs in Windows 2000, which I also have on the system. I receive blue screen errors that indicate paging/memory problems. I have upgraded my BIOS to the latest version (1.3)* in the hope that it would solve my problems, but it has not. The POST screen detects that there is 512MB of memory working in Dual Channel mode, but even when it does get through the O/S booting process (rarely), it crashes within minutes. Putting just one of the chips in makes the system perfectly stable. If anyone has any information, please let me know!
Thanks,
Jim Keller
http://www.centerfuse.net
* My board was dead after trying to flash the 1.3 BIOS, but after about 10 attempts of using CTRL+HOME method to recover the BIOS, it finally worked with version 1.0. I then re-flashed with 1.3, and it rebooted fine. Are there any updates about all of the problems with v1.3 ?

>I can only answer based on what I've read on this forum
I figured as much, I was just wondering if you knew whether MSI themselves frequents the forums or answers emails sufficiently.
I've had an interesting development though. I stumbled upon Tom's Hardware Guide's article about 875P motherboards at http://www17.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20030519/i875p-01.html
They mentioned that they needed to increase the memory voltage from 2.5 to 2.6 in the BIOS to get some memory modules to work. I did this, and for the first time, I am running in Dual channel DDR mode. However, the article also mentions that "the system does not run completely stably", so I guess I'll have to wait and see if it crashes again. However, I'm far enough beyond the XP splash screen to post this message, so I guess we're getting somewhere!
-Jim Keller
http://www.centerfuse.net

[865PE/G Neo2 Series] DDR Memory with 865PE Neo2-PFS Platinum

SYSTEM SPEC: 400w PSU, Pentium 4 3.2ghz 800mhz FSB (HT), Matrox Parhelia 128 8x AGP card, MSI Neo2 PFS Platinum motherboard.
Hi there. Im looking for some serious help with my computer. I have a MSI 865PE Neo2-PFS Platinum mobo and have been using 512mb DDR RAM with it- the ram is PC2700 (333mhz), non-ECC, ubuffered, non-parity, 184 pin. Now, I have just purchased a new DIMM. This one is
1gb PC3200 (400mhz), non-ECC, Unbuffered, non-parity, HIGH DENSITY- DUAL IN LINE, 128 x 64, 184 pin
It doesnt work and my system refuses to boot up. I checked out the specs of the 865PE Neo2-PFS Platinum, and it says in the table that you can only use 400mhz DDR RAM with an 800mhz FSB processor (which I have). It says it supports 400mhz RAM, "DUAL CHANNEL", non-ECC, unbuffered memory, but no mention of "HIGH DENSITY" or "DUAL IN LINE". Is there a difference between "DUAL CHANNEL" and "DUAL IN-LINE". Also, does anyone know what the difference is between 128 x 4 and 128 x 64, they are both 1gb? SOMEONE PLEASE HELP!!! I have seen some RAM from the same dealer which is not "HIGH DENSITY" and has the 128 x 4 configuration, and is still a 1gb module. Is that safe to buy? What RAM do I need (in detail) for my motherboard. Thanks!

Always useful with a complete systemspec.including PSU and biosversion, so please make one.
Can´t see anything wrong with the basic RAM specification - it also matches the MoBo basic specifications:
- Supports four unbuffered DIMM of 2.5V DDR SDRAM.
- Supports up to 4GB memory size without ECC.
- Supports Dual channel DDR266/333/400/433/466/500/533 MHz and up.
Have you tried removing the old RAM and booting only with the new 1GB stick alone ?
Using mixed RAM, sometimes works in "Single mode" (see mobo manual), but is not recommended.
Running Dual-channel ( 2x512 or 1024x2 ) is preferable and gives best performance, but then you need two identical sticks.
You may also need to increase RAM voltage some in bios (example 2.7v) to achieve best stability.
If you have some RAM compability issues with 1GB sticks - 2x512 RAM stick would be safer and give better performance, unless your aiming for more then 2GB in total.
You can also read about the RAM testreport here;
http://www.msi.com.tw/html/products/mainboard/testreport_pdf/6728v2.0/memory.pdf
About "Dual In line Memory Module" - I think it´s the long version for older DIMM description.
Just like "Double Data Rate" is the long version for DDR RAM.
DDR means Double Data Rate RAM (in opposition to the SDRAM or Single Data Rate). DDR RAM bends the transfer rate for clock cycle. It can go quicker because it executes 2 instructions for cycle of clock of the RAM instead of an only instruction like it is the case of the SDR.

Memory and dual channel problems

Hi
Can someone help me?
1- I have 2x512 MB DDR 400 Twinmos CL 2.5 and amd xp 2600 (fsb 333) and Msi K7n2 delta L. I have tested separatly my sticks, one of them woks great, if i put dram clock at 166 or 200 the sytem is always stable. The other stick is not so great , if i put him at 200, most of times the sytem doesn´t boot and the lights in the d-bracket display memory problems, when it manages to boot, when i get to windows i´m always getting blue screens with error messages. If i put to 166 it´s more stable, but sometimes hapens the same, but less frequently.
I have run memtest, but it shows no errors in both sticks.
2- When i use both sticks together in dual channel dimm 1 & dimm 3 sometimes windows only displays 512 MB, but if i reboot the sytem, i get 1 GB as it should be.
It is not frequently, but sometimes it hapens.
3- How can i detect dual ddr is working or not?
I´m asking this becouse the two sticks i have are similar, but there is a little diference, one of them has twinmos chips and the other has M.tec chips. But both are from Twinmos. Sisoftware sandra shows them as equal.
I have heard that this mobo, on the boot screen should display something like this:
Memory Mode: Dual Channel
or
Memory Mode: Single Channel
But in the boot screen it only says DDR 400 or DDR 333 acording to the setings i have put in the bios.
My bios version is 5.1 (4/18/2003). Do you think i need to flash the bios?
Thanks
Pedro Cascão

Sorry, i forgot to post my bios settings.
CPU fsb clock 166 mhz
cpu interface normal
fsb/dram ratio 1:1
current dram clock 166 mhz
memory timings:
t (ras) 8
t (rcd) 3
t (rp) 3
cas latency 2.5
agp voltage 1.5 v
dram voltage 2.7 v

Experiences mixing DDR memory modules

Would you people post here experiences mixing DDR memory modules in order to help me/others take buying decisions?
I currently have a PC2100 256MB Samsung module and a MSI KT266 PRO2 and want to buy a new module.
As I cannot find one similar to the one I already own want to assign a success likelihood before taking my decision.
Thanks in advance Gustavo.-

Had a similar problem afew week's ago. I've got 2 identical stick's of 256Mb Samsung original DDR333 Cas 2.5, decided to upgrade to 1Gb and bought a stick of 512Mb Geil DDR333 (GL2000 Chips) Cas 2.5 for 45 quid. Installed the Geil in slot 2 (with the samsung sticks in slots 0 and 1) booted up o.k
bio's and windows detected the ram just fine.
After rebuilding the windows page file I started to test the extra ram by running 3dmark 2001 but kept getting BSOD's (Irq's less then..., Page faults in non ...etc) mid way through the test's. I went in to the bio's and relaxed the ram timing's to spd, no change. Increased the ram voltage's, no change.
So I thought I'd do a fresh install of windows, but 3/4 of the way through copying the files off the windows cd I kept getting 'can't copy xxxx file from the cd', tried cleaning the cd, tried a backup cd same problem, took the samsung memory out and just put the Geil stick in slot 0, the system wouldn't even boot, but with the samsung stick's in on there own window's installed o.k. I tried the Geil stick in another system, which booted up without a hitch. So finaly I just took the Geil stick out and gave it back, the suppliers tested it and found it to be o'k and charged me 20 quid for the privalage, Ba%&!%@s.
Last week I borrowed a stick of 512Mb Twinmos DDR333, same problem's as the Geil. Seem's like they don't make them like they used to and I'm doomed to 512Mb with this board.
AMD 2400XP @ stock
Akase 821 H/F
MSI KT4 SR with v1.3 Bio's
2x 256MB Samsung DDR333 Cas 2.5 @ stock
80Gb WD 7200 Hard drive on Ide 3
Plextor 40x CD Writter
16x Lite-on DVD
MSI Geforce 4 MX440
D-Link 10/100 NIC
Q-tec 450W PSU @ > 200W Combined
Windows XP with SP1

Trouble with Neo4 Platnum and AMD X2 with dual channel memory

I just installed an X2 3800+ in my Neo4 Platnum board. The board had a 3500 in it and ran fine. When I installed the X2, the machine will no longer POST if the memory is in the dual channel mode. I flashed to the latest BIOS (1.8) and it still does not work. I am using 2 Corsair XMS 2-2-2-5 Dimms each at 512MB. The PC POSTs fine if I place both modules in the Green slots. It does not work with 1 in green and 1 in purple (with either Dimms1-2 or 3-4). Has anyone else seen this?

Todd,
Your last post help me understand your situation a bit better. Here are some questions for you:
1- On your old system did these memory sticks work fine has a dual channel pair? Were these 2 memory sticks bought has a dual channel rated matched pair?
2- In your own words give me your definition of POST?
3- In your own words give me your exact detailed rendition of what happens when you try to post with dual setup. (How far do you get? Where does it hang up?)
4- Can you access your BIOS if booting with only one memory stick? If so, this is only for testing purposes, set your memory as 2.5,3,3,8, and 2T and add 0.05 volts to both your CPU and memory recommended voltages. Save, exit, and then shut down your system. Re-install the second stick of RAM in a proper dual channel slot. Re-boot and see what happens. If successful posting and booting in dual channel with this BIOS config go back to your BIOS and tighten your board and memory timings one at a time until you ID the perfect BIOS config for your CPU and RAM. Do the same with your CPU & RAM voltages.
AMD CPUs encompass their own memory control devices. There might just be enough variance between your older & newer AMD chips to reject dual configuration. If this is the case you may be able to correct it by using step for above. If this does not work, you sould borrow some suitable and proven dual channel memory sticks from a friend to see if the will work in your rig as dual channel?
Just keep on trucking & you'll solve it

Dual channel memory mixing on a K8T Neo2

Hey all,
I have a K8T Neo2, Winchester core 3000+ and had it running with 2 TwinMOS 512 MB-DDR400 sticks in dual-channel mode. Recently I decided to add RAM, but to invest in a more solid brand. So I bought a Corsair TWINX1024-3200C2 set and plugged it in. AFAIK the right combination in the board would be the have one set in slots 1 & 3 and the other set in 2 & 4. So far the board will only post with the Corsairs in 1 & 3 (and not with the Twinnies there). But if it posts, the clock is set to 333 MHz (which is an issue of the Winchester core I understood), but more importantly the system becomes unstable: reboots etc. Even stranger is the fact that sometimes after POST I get 8 beeps from the BIOS, which suggests that the Video RAM or framebuffer is defective. Is this somehow related to the RAM I installed? Is the framebuffer mapped to the RAM at bootup for example?
I did try to change the command rate to 2T, didn't seem to help. Bios version is 3.3 by the way. Thanks for any help.
Oh maybe the vid card specs are also relevant: Sapphire Radeon 9800 pro with 128mb. Power supply is Tagan 580W so unlikely to be the problem

Quote from: Tiresmoke on 03-November-05, 23:54:30
Have you tested each stick of RAM with Memtest86 yet? You may have a bad stick. You also may want to try the new set in a different socket sety. Another words if it was in 2/4 then try it in 1/3. If the timings are different on the two sets try setting to the slowest settings of the two. You may have to exchange the set for the twin to the old set just to make it work as mixing RAM rarely works well.
Good idea on the memtesting, I'll do that tonight. I was afraid that the mixing wouldn't work well, but I thought at least if for each channel I used the same pair it wouldn't matter. Practice might indeed prove that as being a wrong assumption

Neo2 platinum Encountering Stability Problems /w dual channel memory

Hello,
Recently I built my first computer ever, see bottom. After getting windows installed I then had problems with installing other programs and general stability issues. I tried reinstalling windows and after the reinstall I got the same problems.
Something to do with the instability is when I start it up, and go into BIOS, it states my Athlon 64 3500+ as running at 2211, a half percent overclock. Also, even though I have the FSB set as 200mhz, when I go into CoreCenter on windows it states the FSB as being set 201mhz. In the nVidia system utility, it states my memory as running at 402mhz, and I had to crank that down to 400mhz to get stability, it allowed my to install programs without error, but there were still stability problems like crashes(blue screen, the computer just plain restarting without notice). I took out one of my memory cards, both of them work alone though, I've ran memory test utilities. That had a good effect and the computer runs fairly stable, but I still have problems, and I want to be able to take advantage of dual channel. I'm running my memory on auto and it's using the times of 2-3-3-6-2T.
Another problem I'm experiencing is the AC97 audio not being detected and loaded by windows, it will say I have no audio device, and the speaker will not show up in the notification area in the bottom right-hand corner. This happens inconsistantly.
-Thank You
AMD Athlon 64 3500+
MSI Neo2 Platinum(nForce3 939 socket)rev1.0 BIOS 1.4
2x Mushkin DDR400 512mb CL2 Blue
BFG GeForce6800GT OC
80gb Hitachi Deskstar SATA

hi bknoll,
welcome to the forum.
1) i wouldn't worry overmuch at the 201 issue.
2) Quote
I've ran memory test utilities. That had a good effect and the computer runs fairly stable, but I still have problems
which test utilities did you use, Don't quiet understand Quote
had a good effect and the computer runs fairly stable
3) It may be worth checking the Mushkin site or any documentation you have to verify that the auto settings agree with the quoted settings for the modules. It's not unkown for errors to occur when the memory controller on the CPU to misinterpret the SPD chip setting on your sticks - this is where the auto settings come from. Some memory like certain corsair modules need to run at different settings on AMD64, thus auto timings must be overidden,
4) Have you installed the Realtek drivers from the CD, & enabled onboard sound in Bios. When these are done normally there's the MSI Sound Effect manager in control panel. you just need to set your speaker config in the Windows Sounds & Audio Devices.
5) Usual question What power supply are you using as been underpowered on the 12v rail in particular can be the cause of crashes,

P7N SLI Platinum Unstable with over 2GB ram and/or dual channel memory on.

Hello need some help or to report something to MSI regarding blue screens, freezes when booting Vista 64 (SP1 + all fixes installed) with more then 2GB ram. Single channel mode works (either 1 stick of 2 GB or 3 sticks of 2GB) and is rock stable. Booting with 2 x 2 or 4 x 2 yields instability and blue screens.
I read over Microsoft's hotfix KB929777 however it appears this patch was applied during SP1. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929777 - when I attempted to apply this hotfix I got the message this update does not apply to your system.
Memory tested in other gaming system using 4 sticks of G.Skill 1066 DDR2 ram and still have the same issues. Other forums like Evga.com, Tom's hardware and 411overkill.com tend to suggest some problem with this new bios version 2.0, written by Nvidia. Some others mention possibly an Nvidia nforce driver issue.
Therefore, under duress during testing - with 1 stick or 3 sticks of ram, all tests perfect and passes all stability tests, good marks in Sandra, plays any game. With 2 or 4 sticks of ram, very unstable won't stay up but for seconds.
Any ideas? (Tested 7 ways until Sunday!)
My other rig, rocks solid and stable with Vista 64.... It's the Evga new mainboard 780i with triple SLI (132-CK-NF78-A1), 8gb of Gskill 1066ddr2, MSI 8800GT (x2 sli mode) Q6600 @ 3.2 ghz - Raid 0 on dual WD caviar 640 gb/sata 3.0gb/sec. Seasonic 700w p/s. 8gb of memory and not a hiccup. Ram 2.0 volts, cpu @ 1.36v. Will handle the memory from both systems with out fault.
Considering I can swap memory back and forth and confirm it's not the sticks, swap graphics boards (own 3 of them!) and rule out that....
Fyi. Any help is appreciated!

Dump question, but have you pickup the correct update e.g. for 64bit? ==> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=91672C7C-614B-404C-850C-377541E93C18&displaylang=en
"This comes inside SP1 for vista 64, as noted with my other system during the build. "
Better double check it.
Install all four memory sticks and do a memory check with >>Memtest86<< 1st, ensure that no error(s) will comes during testing.
Also how about that?:
Quote from: BOSSKILLER on 07-April-08, 23:55:36
Remove your OC then see how its goes.
"When the system boots in single channel mode (only 2 or 6gb of ram meaning 1 or 3 sticks installed into the 4 slots) its' rock stable. When it boots into dual channel mode (2 x 2 sticks or 2 x 4 sticks) extemely unstable. "
That means, timings are too tight, or they need a bit more vcore help, or some of the memory stick has failure.
"MSI P7N SLI Platinum - MS-7380 - Bios 2.0 on Vista Ultimate 64-bit - all updated."
That BIOS is not for your board, you should use 1.xx

DDR Memory, what's the difference?

I have a MSI KD7 Master-L and a 512mb Registered DDR chip. I can get my hands on some pretty cheap DDR memory but it's unregistered. Now the board says it supports unregistered memory on the first two banks.
My question is that's the difference between unregistered and registered memory? Will having both effect my speed?
I know registered memory has some sort of buffer it holds the data in for a fraction of a second. But speed wise I don't understand the difference.
?(

your boards best with registered,its self error checking
and i would not advise mixing the 2 types myself
mixing makes on normal ddr is a disaster most times

Does the SONY VAIO F Series SVF15412CXB support dual channel memory?

Does the SONY VAIO F Series SVF15412CXB support dual channel memory? Or does it only have one slot?
I'm curious if I can put a second stick of RAM in there for dual channel performance.

Hi Mark, Thanks for the response. Can you please double check that for me, or post a link to the documentation where you saw that? I asked this question on Newegg, too, and one of the respondants heard differently:
"i found out from sony that there is only 1 slot cause i was gonna get 1 more 4GB stick of ram for 8Gb. So iwas upset about that cause i have to get 8GB now and it costs 100$ for an 8Gb stick of ram on ebay. So this ram is expensive. So im sticking with 4Gb for now. This is a very good laptop though. I use it primarily for minecarft and steam and i get around 100 fps on minecraft so its good. I hope this helps." It's just confusing because other laptop advertisments I've seen openly stated how many RAM slots the computer had and how many were used upon purchase. I haven't found anything like that which makes me think that there's only one slot for RAM. Thanks,Gremark

Dual Channel DDR Vs. DDR Memory, etc.

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