Dvx100 24p advanced footage needs rendering?

I have footage captured from a DVX100 as 24p advanced into FCP. I used 2:3:3:2 pulldown to capture it. Now I'm editing on a 23.98 timeline but final edit needs to be rendered in that timeline despite the fact that I don't have any filters. However, in a regualr 48khz timeline, it needs no rendering. Can anyone help?

I would wager if you look at the footage, the pulldown has not been pulled out and the clip is still at 29.97. There is probably some break in the cadence and the pulldown was left in. You can try Remove Advanced Pulldown from the menu on the clip and see what happens...
Patrick

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24p advanced footage needs rendering?

I shot footage in 24p advanced and imported into FCP using 2:3:3:2 pulldown. I then began editing in a 23.98 timeline and discovered that all clips I put there need rendering. I then changed the timeline to 48Khz (not 23.98 or 24p) and the clips don't need rendering anymore. I'm positive I shot in 24pa, especially because I see the stuttering when I panned during the shooting/recording stage. Even the screen on the DVX100 indicated 24pa. What am I doing wrong?

Sometimes I have a similar problem. I shoot advanced 24p on my XL-2 and capture using the pulldown removal setting on FCP -- but when I get there the footage needs render. Honestly -- I would try just re-capturing and making sure all the settings are correct. Before I do anything in my project file I always change the EASY SETUP to universal Pulldown Removal settings. That way, I'm positive it will be capturing into the correct timeline setups, etc.

Determining 24p vs 24p advanced footage

Is there a foolproof way to figure out if your footage was shot at 24p standard or 24p advanced?
thanks

to be clearer: I am going to edit my project in a 23.98 timeline.
Ok... then we need to make sure the footage is converted properly to 23.98 because once it's on tape REGARDLESS of what you shot -- it WILL be 29.98.
I have brought in some of the footage that I shot at standard 24p/ F5 via the DV-NTSC easy set-up, and made a 29.97 test sequence in the "project" that I put that footage in. I have not as yet converted any of that standard 24p footage as yet via Cinema Tools, but when I do it is my understanding that I'll be able to then use the footage in the 23.98 timeline
Correct.
The footage that I have written down as being shot at 24p ADV/ F6 was captured using the 3:2 pulldown removal into a separate "project." I made a test sequence with a 23.98 timeline.
I'm getting the picture...
What's happening is that I'm getting those red "needs rendering" lines when I move clips into the sequences (again, as a test) but not where I would expect them. For example, one clip of 24p advanced footage I brought in using the 3:2 pulldown, with the sequence set at 23.98, is nevertheless showing a red render bar above it. baffled.
Hope this is a mistake... there isn't a set up to remove 3.2... only 2.3.3.2. And, yes -- captured material with the advanced cadence removed via FCP on capture WILL show a TC Rate of 30 fps... so :29 to :00. And yes, there will be 'frames' missing.
Now... why are you getting render lines?? Make sure indeed that you are working with a DV NTSC 48k sequence with anamorphic selected. Apple-Zero the sequence in the browser to MAKE SURE the settings are correct.
Also -- check the item properties for the captured material.
email me offline if you get too confused. Might be easier to walk thru it on iChat.
CaptM

DVX100 24p advanced, or not?

I shot several tapes in 24p advanced mode using a dvx100 and imported all of them into FCP using 2:3:3:2 advanced pulldown. When I began editing them into the timeline, all clips needed rendering. What did I do? I tried using the "Remove Advanced Pulldown" tool but FCP did not detect any pulldown needed in these clips. However, these same clips being edited into a normal 48khz timeline don't need any rendering. Please help!

What that means is that it still captures it as 24P, but doesn't pass on the flags necessary for FCP to detect and remove the pulldown. I think Graeme Nattress makes software that will remove 24PA pulldown without the flags, but I am not certain...
Patrick

HVX footage always need rendering

Hi folks. I'm new to using the HVX200. This is probably a bonehead question, but hopefully someone can help me out. I import the footage from the P2 cards, and all if fine, however, every time I drop some footage onto the timeline, I need to render the entire thing. It's fine in the preview window, but on the timeline, all needs rendering. The footage was shot 720P at 24fps. I've meddled with every setting for the timeline. None seem to work. I figure it should be DVC PRO 720p, or something close to that, but none work. Do I have to run the stuff through compressor or something? Sorry for the dumb question, but any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks

EASY SETUPS.
Choose the DVCPRO HD 720p24 Easy Setup...create a new sequence. Use that sequence.
Shane

DVX100'a, 24p Advanced, Multiple Editors, Etc.

I've tried delaying posting here as long as possible to do research, but if there's ever a time I need to be sure I've got things set up correctly, this is it (I can also post somewhat safely *crossed fingers* during this New Years cease fire):
I've been asked to assist in editing a feature-length (hopefully) documentary (more info here: http://www.dariusgoeswest.com/). The footage has already been shot on two DVX100a's. It was shot in 24 frame advanced mode. The director plans to print this to film at the end of this entire process, and wants to be sure the settings in FCP will allow this at the end of the project. Here's where I come in. If I use the settings suggested in this article for 24 frame advanced footage:
http://www.kenstone.net/fcphomepage/24p_in_FCPnattress.html
is there anything else I need to alter about the timeline or the project to ensure it can eventually make it to film?
The project will likely be edited on FCP 5 on both my PowerMac G5 and an iMac G5. This is where my second question comes in:
The director has an iMac G5 at his home, and I have this PowerMac at my house. We'd like, if possible, to be able to "trade" the project back and forth between our two computers during the editing process and edit on our own machines. We have one 500 gig external hard drive and the budget for a few more if needed. What would be the best way to transfer/transport the project between our two computers safely (i.e. with a backup)?
If this is a RTFM type question, please feel free to tell me so I'm slightly overwhelmed because I've never done anything like this, so any suggestions/advice/warnings are appreciated.
If I've left any essential information out, I will try to find out as soon as possible.
Most gratefully,
JC

What would be the best way to transfer/transport the project between our two computers safely (i.e. with a backup)?
Uncle Gru... err, I mean, Jim, has got you on the right path. I'll second the notion of duplicating your media so that it exists on both your external hard drives.
The only suggestion I really have to add is that you digitize/import all media - especially non-timecode material - so that you can prevent file names from getting out of hand and/or captures from being off sync. You can then provide your director with said content on DVD-Rs or copy them over from your firewire drive.
The other thing to read up on is EDLs and, if you want to use Cinema Tools, Change Lists. Perhaps more suited to a straightforward 2 person workflow, though, is the use of XML Import/Export. In particular, once your media is set on both systems, you can simply email XMLs of your sequence(s) to each other [though it's probably a good idea to zip your file before attaching to email]
Good luck.

24p Advanced problems

Hi there. If anyone who can help me with this issue I would greatly appreciate it.
Ok so I am using a Panasonic DVX100a and shot a bunch of footage. I shot it in 24p advanced. I'm using Adobe Premiere CS4 and captured the footage via firewire into a DV 24p sequence. I'm able to edit it fine but am having sever problems with the picture quality. here's what's going on:
1. My first issue is that everywhere I've looked online, everyone says you need to interpret footage and remove 24p pulldown BEFORE you drag clips to the timeline, otherwise it's too late. BUT, I started editing my footage and only after a few hours found out I needed to interpret the footage and remove pulldown. So I did this to the captured footage, and it effected the clips in my timeline, contradictory to what everyone has said about how you must do it before putting clips onto the timeline. Not a big deal, but I'm just wondering why it did this (maybe I have an update other people don't have?)
2. I did a render test to see exactly what removing the 24p pulldown was doing and when I played the rendered clip back on Windows Media Player and VLC, with the 24p pulldown removed I have horrible interlacing, but with it NOT removed I have no interlacing but do have jittery footage. I understand that 24p will be jittery but this looks REALLY jittery. Again, this seems backwards to what I've read about how you need to remove pulldown in order to remove interlacing.
3. With 24p pulldown not removed, I render the file as an MPEG with everything turned up - bitrate and quality. I set the frame rate to 24. When I play it back on VLC it looks decent but not very good. I ultimately want to upload this footage to Youtube so I want it to look nice but I understand it might not look phenominal. Is there a recommended render setting I should use?
I maybe screwed myself by shooting in 24p advanced but instead of blowing it off and just shoting 30i next time I really want to learn the specifics of 24p advanced so I can use it properly in future projects. If anyone knows the answer to these problems, I would be grateful to hear them. Thanks.

I *kinda* solved my problem. Not really. I went through my footage, frame by frame, and when it's interlaced, only the 4th frame is interlaced. the other 3 frames are progressive frames. This is in 24pa. Anyways, when i captured my footage, I captured one long file. I then chopped the long file into small "scenes" to move around the timeline. What''s wierd is that if I interpret footage to my one long, captured file and remove 24p pulldown, ir removes the interlaced frames on some of my scenes and PUTS IN interlaced frames in other scenes. You would think since it's one long, captured file, that by interpretting the footage and removing the 24p pulldown it would effect the all clips evenly. But no, it doesn't. When I don't check the remove pulldown box, then the clips that didn't have interlaced frames now do, and the ones with interlaced frames don't have them anymore. It's wierd - it's like Premiere is automatically removing the pulldown on some parts of my captured video file but not others. Does this make sense? Has anyone else experienced this??

Anamophic Adapter & 24P Advanced

Hi,
I have three questions I need answered before I can go on in my project:
(1) I filmed using my dvx100 with the anamorphic adapter and with the 24p advanced pulldown mode. I went to capture the footage in FCP5 and found that there was an either/or setting for each, but not one that included both. I am sure that this is a common enough setup, there must be a way to have both. What am I missing?
(2) Should the sequence and project settings be set to 23.96 or 24?
(3) If I already went and set a bunch of clips for a future batch-capture, once I figure the first question, will it capture the old ones at the new settings, or do I have to go back and reset the clips?
I appreciate your help. I am at a standstill until I figure this out.
Seth
BTW (in my opinion) The new Apple ads of bragging about no viruses is a well-known fact among mac users who spread "the word" whenever they get the chance, I think that turning it into a international calling-card, is only asking for trouble from little ego driven virus developers.

OK, I think you've managed to confuse me too. But, if I can guess at what's got you tied up...
In shooting 24P Advanced, the tape speed is actually 29.97. The camera adds pulldown in such a manner - Advanced Pulldown - that FCP can strip out the extraneous frames without the need for Cinema Tools. That preset is the DV NTSC 48 kHz Advanced (2:3:3:2) Pulldown Removal and it produces a 23.98 file in your Browser. But not an anamorphic file.
My suggestion (in Audio/Video Settings) would be to duplicate the DV NTSC 48 kHz Advanced (2:3:3:2) Pulldown Removal preset, check the box at the top for Anamorphic 16:9 and name the preset appropriately. Then use that in your Easy Setup.
Or has that not worked for you?

Apple ProRes 422 HQ needs rendering, but it shouldn't.

Sequence Settings (hereafter called the master sequence) are:
Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) 1920 X 1080 24p 48khz preset.
Frame Size: 1920 X 1080 (HDTV 1080i 16:9)
Pixel Aspect: Square
Editing Timebase: 23.98fps
Compressor: Apple ProRes 422 HQ
Audio: 48khz/16-bit
Footage is:
Apple ProRes 422 (HQ)
Frame Size: 1920 X 1080
Pixel Aspect: Square
Editing Timebase: 23.98fps
Compressor: Apple ProRes 422 HQ
Audio: 48khz/16-bit
Data Rate: 19.5 MB/sec
I need to put a timecode window burn on the entire movie for a web clip. So I exported a ProRes master as a QuickTime movie using the sequence settings. I then imported that clip and slipped it into a new sequence with identical settings (hereafter called TimeCode burn sequence) and was surprised to see the red render bar across the entire sequence.
As an experiment, I exported a brief (one minute) clip from the same master sequence. I then slipped that clip into my TimeCode burn sequence and it does not need rendering (it shouldn't).
I shouldn't have to render the Master clip first, only to have to re-render it once I but the window burn on. The movie is 30 min. long and the file size is 34GB. Is there a file size limit on ProRes HQ clips that don't need rendering? Why don't the shorter clips from the same sequence need rendering. I don't understand this. Very time consuming.
EDIT: I will probably end up using the Timecode Generator option in Compressor, so please don't suggest this, as I am aware of it. I want to figure out this mystery.
Message was edited by: Mr. Landers
Message was edited by: Mr. Landers

No, you're absolutely correct to use HQ. Just checking.
The Red footage is has 4:4:4 subsampling, so HQ's the way to go.
If you generally use Recompress All Frames on Export then you probably know that it's pointless to render your timeline before an Export, since your Render files won't be accessed. Unless you need to work in that same sequence with the timecode - but, you could just use your exported master for that.
I know the recompress all frames option is probably overkill for a sequence with only one effect, but I'm also thinking about drive space. With those huge Red files, your render files have to be eating up quite a lot of it.
So, I'm suggesting that you don't need to render this sequence before exporting. Just export the unrendered sequence with Recompress All Frames. That saves you the space the render files would be taking up.

24p rookie! Needs help!

So I'm not completely new to FC, but I've always shot 29fps and used FCE. I am now in the process of editing a feature (in FCP) that was shot on a DVX100. The footage was shot in 24p and a 16:9 ratio. I was wondering if someone could help me with what setting adjustments I should make to get the fullest quality out of my project.
Thanks.

Floops,
You should really do a forum search as this has come up so frequently in the past years there are scads of pages that you need to read and digest. I'll wager some really great reading authored by Graeme Nattress and Adam Wilt rise to the top of a Google search as well.

24P Advanced

I am new to working with 24P Advanced. Could someone suggest how to set up FCP in order optimize capturing the footage from my Sony DSR11 mini-dv deck? Just the setting on FCP should be enough to get me started. I appreciate it.
The Best,
Seth

Seth -- Your DVX has a mode called SQUEEZE. This, like Shane says, is a fake anamorphic.
You'll need to tell FCP that this is the way you shot so it will 'fix' the video and make it look 16:9... hence the anamorphic check box. Otherwise everyone will look tall and skinny.
You should spend some time over at http://www.dvxuser.com to get a better feel of your camera. The whole site is dedicated to the DVX and it's joys and sorrows.
CaptM

24p Advanced on P2/Hard Drive - First Timer Questions

I'm getting ready to edit a project that is going to be shot on a Panasonic HVX 200- onto 8 gig "P2" cards, downloading them on set to a mini mobile editing system to a Digital Hard drive. The production company is going to send me the hard drive. It will apparently be shot 24p advanced. Normally, everything I've worked on for years has been shot on 35mm or 16mm and transferred to beta or Dbeta for me to edit with. I will not be finishing this project - only offlining, but I have some questions:
I can edit 24p Advanced HD with FCP, correct?
Since It's only going to be on a hard drive, should I transfer it to my CalDigit SATA RAID to edit with?
I use an AJA io SDI box and the new JVC flatpanel HD/SD broadcast monitor. Will I be able to output this on my monitor with this setup?
Anything special to look for when outputting 24p EDLs?
Basically, any advice on workflow with this would be greatly appreciated. I'm an old-school, film and Avid convertee and I hope to make a smooth transition to HD.
MacBook Pro, FCP 5.1, AJA io, Caldigit SVRDuo 1.5TB, Lacie Rugged FW Drive Mac OS X (10.4.8) Other Macs/Editing Systems Owned

The raw P2 files. They're in a folder with the job name. It's listed "Card 1", "Card 2", etc... I'm copying them over as we speak to the RAID.
No no no. STop...stop now. That is NOT what you are supposed to do. You need to import the footage FROM that drive using the P2 IMPORT (or Log and Import...whatever the FCP 6 term for it is)...LEAVE the raw on the Lacie. Importing them converts them to Quicktime files you can edit.
You gotta watch this tutorial before you go ANY further:
http://forums.creativecow.net/cgi-bin/pagewrapper.cgi?forumid=8&page=http://www.creativecow.net/articles/ross_shane/p2workflow/index.html
When I create a Capture Scratch folder, I tend to get several "Capture Scratch" folders inside of that folder (as opposed to having them all in the OMFI folder in the Avid). How do I keep them all organized into one folder (or do I need to do this?)\
Stop thinking in Avid terms now. Get that out of your head.
When you choose the CAPTURE SCRATCH, choose the drive itself. NOT A FOLDER ON THAT DRIVE. This way you'll have all the right folders on the base level of the drive.
How do I keep them all organized into one folder (or do I need to do this?)
Click on Underdog to get to my blog...then click on the DVD on the right hand side. This is my tutorial DVD on how to organize yourself in FCP. FCP does things VERY differently from an Avid, and if you take the Avid approach you'll get lost and burried, FAST. Buy this DVD (shameful plug) and watch it. But watch that tutorial first.
Again, this will be conformed elsewhere, but hopefully, my EDL and ref tape will do the trick.
Get this figured out now. Talk to who is finishing it because this workflow is VERY different from a tape based one. There is no offline, you are cutting at full resolution. There is no conform, as there will be no recapturing of the footage. It is unnecessary. They need to talk to the finishing house now and get this figured out before you do something you shouldn't.
Shane

24P Advanced Issues with Export

Hey all-
I have a short film that I made on a Canon XL2 with a Firestore drive. The camera settings were in 16x9 with 24P Advanced on the camera, and Quicktime 24P in the firestore selected.
When you open the individual clips in Quicktime, the audio is way off and there is serious artifacting at the end of the video, but when you pull it into final cut (using Final Cut Studio 1, FCP 5.1.4) and edit on either a 24 FPS or 23.98 FPS timeline, everything is perfect.
When I try to export using either quicktime conversion or cinema tools, the audio is way off, as is the video. In fact, it will show artifacting on some of the clips, and the video is way off. I am outputting a DV NTSC with 24P and anamorphic selected, but it doesn't seem to work at all. Every setting I try, even those matching the sequence preset, seem to mess up the export. I have read a few other articles on other websites, but nobody answered them, and I haven't been able to find anything here.
Can anyone please help me?
Cheers!
D

I have found that sending the files to Shake through the FCP timeline and rendering them back out through a file out node takes care of the issue. Seems like a pain, but I guess if it gets me to where I need to be, it will have to do.
Is there anyone who can give me insight as to why this happened? Is it a glitch with the XL2? The Firestore Drive Settings? Final Cut?
Anyone?

24P Advanced - Audio/Video Synch Problem on Capture

I shot some footage in 24P advanced. When I capture into FCP4 (settings are 23.98 timecode, 2:3:3:2 pulldown removal), the video and audio become out of synch (in the canvass -- I haven't bothered dragging anything to the timeline yet).
I shot with a Canon XL2 and am importing with a Canon GL2. I usually shoot with a Panasonic AG-DVX100 (and import with a Panasonic) and never had this problem before. I'm in a bit of a time crunch, so I'm starting to get very nervous.
I used "capture now," not log & capture.
Any ideas? Thank you very much.

Was the camera set at 24p 2:3:3:2, or just 24p 2:3. If it was set to 2:3, your capture settings with easy setup will simply be, DV-NTSC. If it was set to 2:3:3:2 your settings for footage from an XL2 should be Easy Setup - DV-NTSC (23.98) Advanced Pulldown Removal, and you capture setting will be changed to DV NTSC 48 kHz Avanced 2:3:3:2 pulldown removal. This captures at 29.97 (DV NTSC) and puts your footage into a 24p timeline.
I'm suspecting that your camera wasn't set to 2:3:3:2 because that is not a default setting. Which is fine for playback on a TV, but not optimal for playback to film.

Settings for 24p advanced mode with a Panasonic AG-DVX100B?

I recently bought a Panasonic AG-DVX100B to shoot a docu and a low-budget feature. I have shot some test footage (and am going to be shooting) in 24P advanced mode. Can anyone tell me what FCP settings I need to change (or be concerned about) since I'll be changing from a mid-level consumer miniDV camera to the DVX?
Also, so I don't have to keep bugging people in here, does anyone know of any reputable tutorial sites for using FCP with the DVX? Or even any site(s) or book(s) that explain FCP in more detail than the manual? I've perused Ken Stone's site, and it looks pretty helpful but, the more, the merrier!
I'm using FCP 4.5 on a dual 2GHz PowerMac running 10.4.9, with 1.5GB of RAM, a 400GB internal drive, and a 140GB Firewire drive.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you,
Lloyd

Lloyd... as a DVX lover, I must say you made a great choice.
The DV/NTSC (or PAL) 2.3.3.2 Advanced Pulldown Removal option for capture works great... IF *I'll get to that IF in a second.
I copied that default and made one that also includes the anamorphic button checked (as the default doesn't.)
Ok... the IF - make sure you:
1) NEVER turn off the camera while recording (use the RED stop button first, then turn off (of course))
2) NEVER when shooting 24pA review your shot material. SOMETIMES if you use the find last frame feature on the camera (in VCR mode) it will be ok, but NEVER just rewind and start recording willy-nilly... this will for sure disrupt the cadence and you'll get a quit capture when you try to capture the footage.
3) NEVER switch the scene setup on the camera in the middle of a tape. Put some duck-tape over that scene wheel so you don't hit it with your thumb!! (the B model is better about this as it is recessed a bit.)
If all else fails, capture using the 29.97 setting without the cadence removal and then chop it up into bits and use the TOOLS menu feature to remove the cadence after you've captured it.
As for the sequence (after you've got it captured...) use the 23.97 DV/NTSC (pal) sequence - use the anamorphic as needed.
Good luck... feel free to check out the DVX site (if you like skateboard videos), there are some VERY knowledgeable folks over there - or email me anytime also.
CaptM

Dvx100 24p advanced footage needs rendering?

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