Early 2008 MBP source drive won't boot after cloning

I cloned the original/source drive, via USB, Carbon Copy Cloner, to a Crucial MX100 256GB SSD. The clone process completed without errors. I powered down the system to do a start-up from the USB drive to see if it would boot. The computer will not start from the source drive and holding the Option key to select a boot drive never gets that far.
I can hear the optical drive try to spin up, the status light blinks quickly like it is trying to start and then quits, remaining a steady light. I have tried Cmd + R at boot without success. Tried the PRAM reset, also the SMC reset.
There is plenty of room on the source drive, at least 160GB. The target drive is the same size as the source drive.
Prior to cloning the source drive and powering down, the computer was operating flawlessly. This an early 2008 model with the 2.5Mhz processor.
Any recommendations? I am hesitant to remove the source drive and install the cloned SSD for concern that I'll end up with some other trouble.
I do not have a start up disk. BTW, the OS X is Yosemite, the most recent version, .10, I think.
Thanks,
Bob

wsev1955 wrote:
I have a HP Pavilion Dv4170us laptop added some new upgrades to it.. max RAM 2GB... a new battery... and I bought a 160GB samsung IDE drive to replace the origional 100GB drive...Using EZ Gig II software and usb drive adapter I successfuly cloned the smaller hard drive but when I swaped them out it won't boot windows xp.. just a black screen with the blinking curser at the top left corner... using my windows xp pro disc.. i ran the system recovery and tried first fix mbr command... then I tried fixboot.. I also looked for the boot.ini file which is not in the C: root drive...I only found a back up copy of it in the windows/pss folder... this is on both drives.. so the cloeing copied it all... but the origional drive will boot and the new one won't... I even tried reinstalling XP as a repair installation...still nothing... any ideas??
Hi,
Can you see the new hdd in the BIOS?
Dv6-7000 /Full HD/Core i5-3360M/GF 650M/Corsair 8GB/Intel 7260AC/Samsung Pro 256GB
Testing - HP 15-p000
HP Touchpad provided by HP
Currently on Debian Wheeze
*Please, help other users with the same issue by marking your solved topics as "Accept as Solution"*

Similar Messages

Windows xp won't boot after cloning hard drive to a bigger drive

I have a HP Pavilion Dv4170us laptop added some new upgrades to it.. max RAM 2GB... a new battery... and I bought a 160GB samsung IDE drive to replace the origional 100GB drive...Using EZ Gig II software and usb drive adapter I successfuly cloned the smaller hard drive but when I swaped them out it won't boot windows xp.. just a black screen with the blinking curser at the top left corner... using my windows xp pro disc.. i ran the system recovery and tried first fix mbr command... then I tried fixboot.. I also looked for the boot.ini file which is not in the C: root drive...I only found a back up copy of it in the windows/pss folder... this is on both drives.. so the cloeing copied it all... but the origional drive will boot and the new one won't... I even tried reinstalling XP as a repair installation...still nothing... any ideas??

wsev1955 wrote:
I have a HP Pavilion Dv4170us laptop added some new upgrades to it.. max RAM 2GB... a new battery... and I bought a 160GB samsung IDE drive to replace the origional 100GB drive...Using EZ Gig II software and usb drive adapter I successfuly cloned the smaller hard drive but when I swaped them out it won't boot windows xp.. just a black screen with the blinking curser at the top left corner... using my windows xp pro disc.. i ran the system recovery and tried first fix mbr command... then I tried fixboot.. I also looked for the boot.ini file which is not in the C: root drive...I only found a back up copy of it in the windows/pss folder... this is on both drives.. so the cloeing copied it all... but the origional drive will boot and the new one won't... I even tried reinstalling XP as a repair installation...still nothing... any ideas??
Hi,
Can you see the new hdd in the BIOS?
Dv6-7000 /Full HD/Core i5-3360M/GF 650M/Corsair 8GB/Intel 7260AC/Samsung Pro 256GB
Testing - HP 15-p000
HP Touchpad provided by HP
Currently on Debian Wheeze
*Please, help other users with the same issue by marking your solved topics as "Accept as Solution"*

G4 PowerMac mirrored drives won't boot after software update

This IS NOT about my PB but a PowerMac tower, G4, mirrored drive....running 10.5 (I think).
After some month of neglect, did software update yesterday.... 7 programs including a security update, iTurnes, QT, and I'm not sure what else.
Now it won't boot.
I have a Disk Warrior CD, but I can't get the SuperDrive door open to try to boot from it.
Help GREATLY appreciated.
Thanks,
TD

After some month of neglect, did software update yesterday.... 7 programs including a security update, iTurnes, QT, and I'm not sure what else.
Now it won't boot.
What I like to call a case of computer indigestion. Too many updates at once. See recommendations below.
I have a Disk Warrior CD, but I can't get the SuperDrive door open to try to boot from it.
See if any of these help:
[Topic : Can't open drive door |http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1279497]
A dozen ways to eject or unmount a recalcitrant CD or DVD
http://www.osxfaq.com/dailytips/08-2002/08-12.ws
Ejecting media in Mac OS X: Removing 'stuck' CDs/DVDs
http://www.macfixit.com/article.php?story=20041011075232575
Power Macintosh G3 and G4: About the DVD-RAM Drive
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=HT3072
PowerPC-based Macintosh: How to eject a disc when other options don't work
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106752
Force Eject (10.3 or later) - Can be used to eject any removable disk that the system will not eject. http://mac.softpedia.com/progDownload/Force-Eject-Download-34780.html
[Article #HT1310 - Startup Manager: How to Select a Startup Volume|http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1310]
In worst case scenario I wonder if sticking some tape to the door to get access to the drive itself, then using a straightened paperclip in the eject hole (do they still have those?) would work.
<HR>
Updating
Certain steps appear to minimize the risk of an update producing problems.
Number one is to make sure you have a bootable clone backup of your computer in case you do need to back out of it again. This is the only guaranteed way of not having to worry about the results of an update.
Some like to boot from their installer discs or an external backup and verify (and if necessary repair) their internal drives as well as drive permissions. This is done with Disk Utility. You can verify a drive while booted from the same drive but sometimes this produces spurious errors. Repairing a drive (if necessary) has to be done while booted from another disk. Permissions repair can, and is probably best, done when booted from your internal drive.
[Resolve startup issues and perform disk maintenance with Disk Utility and fsck|http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106214]
[Using Disk Utility in Mac OS X 10.4.3 or later|http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=302672]
[Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions|http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=25751]
You can also go to the step of booting into safe mode to do the install.
[Mac OS X: Starting up in Safe Mode|http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107393]
[What is Safe Boot, Safe Mode? (Mac OS X)|http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107392]
[Safe Boot takes longer than normal startup|http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107394]
I like to download the update onto my computer and install it from there rather than let Software Update do it. I know a few people who had problems with doing the update via software updater found a manual install to work.
Repair permissions again afterward.
It helps to only install one update at a time and to run the computer for a while to make sure it is behaving well.
The more cautious even like to unplug third party peripherals (see [comment by BDaqua|http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=9040746#9040746]).
Almost all of the above steps (except backup) have been questioned as to necessity because probably many people have done successful updates without doing them. I say they can't hurt, they can very likely do good (especially if your computer isn't regularly maintained), so why not do them to be safe.
[BDaqua's comments on updating problems|http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=8948595#8948595]
[Baby Boomer's comments on updating problems|http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=9025760#9025760]
[Klaus1's post on updating and removing updates|http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=10257902#10257902]

External drive won't boot after install?

I tried installing mountain lion onto an external SSD drive. At first it worked, using my USB install drive and selected my external drive as the target. All the files are copied over and asked me to restart. However, after restart all it did is booted back into my internal drive OSX. Even if I held down the option button it won't allow me to boot the external drive. Any ideas? I'm doing this from the retina macbook pro.

Install or Reinstall Lion/Mountain Lion from Scratch
Be sure you backup your files to an external drive or second internal drive because the following procedure will remove everything from the hard drive.
Boot to the Recovery HD:
Restart the computer and after the chime press and hold down the COMMAND and R keys until the menu screen appears. Alternatively, restart the computer and after the chime press and hold down the OPTION key until the boot manager screen appears. Select the Recovery HD and click on the downward pointing arrow button.
Partition and Format the hard drive:
1. Select Disk Utility from the main menu and click on the Continue button.
2. After DU loads select your external hard drive (this is the entry with the mfgr.'s ID and size) from the left side list. Click on the Partition tab in the DU main window.
3. Under the Volume Scheme heading set the number of partitions from the drop down menu to one. Click on the Options button, set the partition scheme to GUID then click on the OK button. Set the format type to Mac OS Extended (Journaled.) Click on the Partition button and wait until the process has completed.
4. Select the volume you just created (this is the sub-entry under the drive entry) from the left side list. Click on the Erase tab in the DU main window.
5. Set the format type to Mac OS Extended (Journaled.) Click on the Security button, check the button for Zero Data and click on OK to return to the Erase window.
6. Click on the Erase button. The format process can take up to several hours depending upon the drive size.
Reinstall Lion/Mountain Lion: Select the External drive, then select Install Lion/Mountain Lion and click on the Install button.
Note: You will need an active Internet connection. I suggest using Ethernet if possible
because it is three times faster than wireless.

Pavilion dv6t new hard drive won't boot after OS install

Hello, I have a HP Pavilion dv6t-3000 and the hard drive went bad and I just ordered a new one with basically the same capabilities. BIOS recognizes it because I can run the hard disk test and because the HP Recovery disc's successfully load and install on the hard drive. But once the recovery disc's finish the install and restart I get the error "No bootable device -- insert boot disk and press any key". The only thing I can think of is the hard drive is not compatible or something needs to be configured in the BIOS, but it is still recognized and still gets Windows 7 Home Premium installed using the recover disc's so in my mind that eliminates that problem.
Is there something I am missing or something else that needs to be done?
Thanks

Hi,
Locate your specific Model from the list on the link below.
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/pfinder?cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en&tool=&query=dv6t+#N29
From here, select Software and Driver Downloads and select your OS for all the driver downloads available for your notebook.
Regards,
DP-K
****Click the White thumb to say thanks****
****Please mark Accept As Solution if it solves your problem****
****I don't work for HP****
Microsoft MVP - Windows Experience

Early 2008 Mac Pro won't boot after installing 2nd DVD drive

All,
I purchased a Pioneer DVR-117D from Mac Sales and after installing it in my new refurbished 2008 Mac Pro it won't boot. My MP will boot if I remove the drive. According to the Mac Sales website this drive should work fine in my MP. Any ideas as to why this is happening. I literally just got my MP today and installed the drive. Is it the drive or the Mac Pro. Thank you all.

The drive was set to master, I switched it to CS before I left for work but haven't tried reinstalling it. I will try when I get back and let you know if it worked. Thank you again.

Early 2008 MBP, can't install OS X

My Early 2008 MBP has a dual hard drive configuration. The stock HDD has all my documents and data on it, the SSD that used to have OS X installed had to be formatted. I tried to use Recovery Mode to reinstall OS X, but the install screen stops at the very end of the installation and says that it could not download the necessary files for the installation. I have tried installing on both of the hard drives even with previous versions of OS X only to yield the same result.

WiFi only shows when there is no Ethernet cable connected and it shows during the Boot Process so you can chose and log in to your WiFi SSID.
1) Right you more then likely bought it with Lion Pre-Installed. But the Early 2011 models originally had Snow Leopard Pre-Installed until Lion came out. Early 2011 models were released in February 2011. Lion came out in June I think and then the late 2011 models came out in October. The the Early "Mid" year 2011 models came with both version of OS X, Snow Leopard and Lion. Depending on when it was manufactured.
2) if you already downloaded and installed Lion a week, or so, ago why are you doing it again? What problem did or are you having that is making you re-install?
Whatever that problem is may be the ROOT cause of the downloading problem you are now having. Like not being able to write to the drive. A HDD failure.
Do you have an external drive laying around? If so connect that external and point the download to that drive and see if it completes and then starts the install. Back up whatever is on that external.
If the download does complete and the install starts then you know it is a problem with the internal drive.

My clone external hard drive won't boot - start up?

Hi,
I am selling my MacPro and need to clone its system drive for the new lap top I will buy soon. So I bought a new external 2TB HDD from OWC. I have found that this external HDD will not boot up, even though it says it is bootable, and appears in the Start Up prefs when I select it. It sppears on the desktop, doesn't make any weird clicking noises as well.
I am using 10.6.8 OS X. The 2TB HDD has two partitions (created with DU), one is bootable (Mac OS X extended journaled), and the other is a regular HDD space for media etc. It is GUID. It has "Ownership" checked in the info box.
I used CCC 3.4.4 and since this is 'hopefully' a one time deal, selected the 'Delete anything that doesn't exist on the source' setting. I cloned my system drive to the bootable space and had no problems with the transfer. Plenty of space to write all the files. I even made sure everything was checked in the 'source' window that a system drive might need. Everything was checked.
I spoke with a representive at the OWC Sales company and checked that this HDD can be used as a bootable drive.
I checked the connections: with external HDD with FW800, and Sata connectors. I have checked it with my Mac Book Pro as well. Same result. No boot.
I really don't understand why this drive won't boot, since everything looks correct.
Does anyone have any thoughts, suggestions, ideas for fixing this issue?
Thanks
M

Not sure if you managed to get this issue resolved yet Marcus, but I too have a similar problem:
Currently I'm upgrading from Leopard to Lion (via Snow Leopard) on both an iMac and MacBook Pro (both Intel), but before I proceed with the OSX upgrade I wanted to back everything up. Thus far I have partitioned an external firewire drive (G Drive - one that is bootable), and cloned each machine using Carbon Copy Cloner to it's own partition (both GUID). There is plenty of space left over on each partition.
The issue - I can boot the OS X from the external drive on the MacBook Pro but not on the iMac.
When I restart and hold down Option on the iMac the only drive that appears is the HDD, not the other two selectable drives that are visible if I boot up on the MacBook Pro. On the iMac in System Prefs > Startup Disc I can see all 3 drives but when I select it and restart, the machine freezes on the grey loading screen and goes no further.
Not that it should make a difference, but there is a 3rd partition on the external drive that is currently empty (for extra storage).
Any help is greatly appreciated - I can't find any relevant answers elsewhere. Thanks,
Dan

I have an early 2008 Mac Pro, which has re-booting problems. Also what does the spinning beach-ball indicate?

Hi, I have an early 2008 Mac Pro which has re-booting problems.
Processor speed is: 2.8
Memory: 2GB 800 MHz DDR2 FB-DIMM
2 x 28GHz Quad Core Intel Xeon
I am running OSX Yosemite Version 10.10
My Mac Pro keeps re-booting. Last year I had to replace my graphics card. My original card was the ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT 255MB, and that is what I have now. At this precise moment my Mac Pro is running perfectly, except that it is slow and the spinning beach-ball keeps appearing. I have managed to do some work with the disk utilities, verifying, cleaning and partitioning. Some errors were found and when it was cleaned this seemed to help my Mac Pro to function properly. Although I am able to use my Mac Pro now, from day to day I still experience re-boot problems. Also quite unexpectedly my mac dictionary has an error, it closed itself down and will not open at all, I had the message to say that a report will be sent to Apple.
I have tried starting my computer with an external hard drive fitted via a USB cable, I use for back-ups. This worked and I was able to wipe my hard drive clear and replace all info from the back up I had done only a few days ago.
This worked for a few days and then the same problem started again.
I am beginning to wonder if I need to buy a new hard drive.
If there is anyone who has some answers to help me solve my problem, I would be most grateful.
Robert

When you have the beachball activity, note the exact time: hour, minute, second.
These instructions must be carried out as an administrator. If you have only one user account, you are the administrator.
Launch the Console application in any of the following ways:
☞ Enter the first few letters of its name into a Spotlight search. Select it in the results (it should be at the top.)
☞ In the Finder, select Go ▹ Utilities from the menu bar, or press the key combination shift-command-U. The application is in the folder that opens.
☞ Open LaunchPad and start typing the name.
The title of the Console window should be All Messages. If it isn't, select
          SYSTEM LOG QUERIES ▹ All Messages
from the log list on the left. If you don't see that list, select
          View ▹ Show Log List
from the menu bar at the top of the screen.
Each message in the log begins with the date and time when it was entered. Scroll back to the time you noted above.
Select the messages entered from then until the end of the episode, or until they start to repeat, whichever comes first.
Copy the messages to the Clipboard by pressing the key combination command-C. Paste into a reply to this message by pressing command-V.
The log contains a vast amount of information, almost all of it useless for solving any particular problem. When posting a log extract, be selective. A few dozen lines are almost always more than enough.
Please don't indiscriminately dump thousands of lines from the log into this discussion.
Please don't post screenshots of log messages—post the text.
Some private information, such as your name, may appear in the log. Anonymize before posting.

My MacBook Pro is spitting out my DVDs. I tried many discs and they all got spat out. Its an early 2008. The drive is a HL-DT-ST dvdrw GSA-s10n. Do I need a new drive?

Hi. Need some help here. My MacBook Pro is spitting out my DVDs. I insert them and they knock around awhile making whirring noises, then out they come. Refuses to play them. I've tried many. I have an early 2008 model and the drive is a HL-DT-ST dvdrw GSA-s10n. Do I need to get a new drive? Thanks for any help or comments.

My old Early 2008 MBP used to do that every now and then in the last years of its life. Got a dry-type optical drive cleaner, the kind that is a CD with 4 rows of very fine and soft bristles glued on the "business side". Memorex was the brand I got, good for 20-30 uses. Ran it thru every time the drive acted up, never failed to restore functionality.
Of course, the Mac would later go on and blow its logic board. And that was that.

Early 2008 MBP screen not turning on

I have a 15 inch early 2008 MBP that the screen will not turn on. When i power on, the hard drive makes a sound that its turning on, but then nothing happens, there is just a black screen. The indication light is on, but again, nothing on the screen. I have tried pulling out the battery, resetting everything i can reset, but still nothing. Any ideas?

Hi B,
You may have the NVIDIA issue. If you have the GeForce 8600M GT GPU it is covered under the free repair program. Bring the MBP to an Apple Store or AASP for free testing. If Apple's free test confirms the issue, repair is free. Read all about it here: http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2377
There have been stories of, ummm, "uninformed" workers, so print out the article, familiarize yourself with it, and if you meet resistance, politely/firmly stand your ground and ask for someone higher up the food chain if need be. The GPU is part of the logic board, so "repairing" it means replacing the logic board (Some workers have tried to play word games, saying the logic board needed to be replaced so it wasn't a covered repair because it wasn't just the GPU. Grrrrrr!). Good luck!

MAC PRO HARD DRIVE won't boot

HARD DRIVE won't boot past APPLE ICON, grey spinning wheel on grey screen. Tried using install discs, no go past the icon.
Replace small battery inside? replace chips? Logic board replace as last resort. Can't take it away from work at this point to an apple tech.
Had just installed updates to snow leopard and was successful...but went to restart it...and this crap happened.
Thanks for any help.
MT1111
< Edited by Host >

I'll try that tomorrow. Thinking it could also be:
1) The PRAMM battery. found info on that they can wear out close to 5 years. This MAC PRO is close to that now. And I use a lot of power on it.
2) MAC PRO is plugged into a SURGE PROTECTOR, instead of right into the wall outlet.
3) Been doing a lot of FORCE QUITS and HARD BOOT -- unplugging it directly when it wouldn't shut down soon enough -- lately this past year.
I just assumed that this MAC PRO with the XEON QUAD CORE etc., was a heavy duty enough NLE,
that i wouldn't have these problems. It's not fully loaded with all the chips it can carry...and I don't have near enough external terabyte hard drives for storing video and audio files to edit. I've been storing wayyy too much
on the internal hard dives and just have to stop that.
I noticed these past few days that much of the LETTERING for hard drive icons and folders' titles
were starting to look in OVERLAPPING of the lettering. That was my first hint that something was up.

Main drive won't boot reliably

If I have a duplicated ( via SuperDuper) external drive attached, the OS will boot from that drive, even if I have my main drive selected in prefs as the startup drive.
If I disconnect the external drive, my mac will boot from DiskWarrior DVD, in the Superdrive.
If I remove the disk, my drive gets me a flashing question mark.
I have DiskWarriored and TechTooled and they pass the drive, yet all the above indicate that all is not well with my main drive.
Yet in each case, if I start with 'Option' key pressed, my main drive appears in the list and will then boot happily and will run all day.
Any ideas as to why the drive won't boot OSX straight away?
tia
peter

good job on having firewire ports, you can run tiger.
to upgrade the firmware, you need to install a harddrive that has OS 9 on it. doesn't matter if the drive is in that computer at the moment, it can be a friends that has it installed already. you just need a installation of OS 9. Connect it to the internet after its booted, run the software update, it'll reboot some times and some junk and do it for you. Be nice and give the hard drive back to whoever was nice enough to lend it to you. They are SUPER easy to swap.
My impression of your hard drive is that it is failing its SMART crap. The problem with these things is that the heat they live with (cause of the proc and the crt in there, not to mention the psu) make them "stretch" as they work. you "can" dent the little disc/circle lookin part on the top of the hard drive with a hammer very lightly and sort of "force" it back in to a more optimal position for old age. Since i saw you just ordered a new hard drive from ebay (newegg would have been more trustworthy, ata 100 backwards compatability for the win), when you get that, put it in and come up with an OS 9 install disc. Gotta be one for your computer or a retail, which did or does come with tiger when you buy it.
I installed OS X Tiger on my iMac G3 400dv without doing the firmware update first and i updated it to the current version, did it break my monitor? nope. BUT, it says it can, so i'd install OS 9 first and do the firmware update like a good person would. I have since installed OS 9 and fixed the error on my part and reinstalled Tiger.

Xserve (early 2008) with SAS drives

Greeting All,
Can Xserve (early 2008) add SAS driver in any bay of the chassis? Or it will like MacPro need add RAID card in it.
Thanks,
Spin

Yes, SAS and SATA Apple Drive Modules (ADMs) can be mixed in Xserve.
If you want hardware RAID, you need the add-on card.
Quoth the current Xserve technical page "Three independent hot-plug drive bays with support for SATA or SAS drives; support for up to 3TB of hot-plug internal storage using the following Apple Drive Modules:
80GB 7200-rpm SATA with 8MB disk cache
1TB 7200-rpm SATA with 32MB disk cache
73GB 15,000-rpm SAS with 16MB disk cache
300GB 15,000-rpm SAS with 16MB disk cache"
And here's the obligatory official [ADM compatibility article link|http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1219].
Other potential expansion options include outboard direct attached storage (DAS) via SCSI or SAS and a PCI-X or PCIe controller, outboard storage via Network Attached Storage (NAS), or outboard storage via Fibre Channel (FC) Storage Area Network (SAN) storage via PCIe controller. If you're looking at SAS disks here specifically for performance, I'd tend to go to DAS SAS or FC SAN storage as potential alternatives; they're toward the higher end.

HI! early 2008 MBP 4,1 startup or power up Failure! HELP! thks!

I have an early 2008 Macbook pro 4,1. The computer was sleeping all night, and when I pull up the screen to use it, the Mac apparently was running but no screen on it, so I try to increase or decrease de light on the screen but nothing happened, so I force it to shut down with the power bottom, then I tried to power it up, and it really does for 2 to 3 seconds, and it shut down... there is nothing at screen. What i did to troubleshoot with no results: press de power bottom for 5 seconds with no mega safe adapter and battery - press de left shift + option + command + power bottom with the megasafe adapter - I did take the HDD - took de RAM memory.
Another thing: When I took the Ram memory the MB stayed beeping like telling me that there was no memory, but it didn’t shut down. I had to shut it down myself...
Any suggestion please!? Thanks a lot!

The early 2008 MBPs had serious videocard problems which you may be experiencing. You will need to go to an Apple Store or service provider to have the MBP tested which may cost you. The problem is that the 4 year extended video card warranty has long expired for all these models so getting a free repair is not likely.
Some discussions to peruse.
https://discussions.apple.com/message/17901599#17901599
http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2377
https://discussions.apple.com/message/16921827#16921827

Early 2008 MBP source drive won't boot after cloning

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