EMAGIC VS Apple - Plug In Delay Compensation

Right,
How could it possibly be that i experience more latencty in the new APPLE Logic Pro 7, with excatly the same plugins and sessions loaded from a saved and released EMAGIC Logic 6 mix that i did which WAS fine !
Surley it should have gotten better ! Do i need to upgrade my G4 now aswell to catch up with the program ! I see that this is an overall problem with other people running quicker G5's, and yet they still have to compensate with various delay methodologys.
What is going on ? Any suggestions you may have are appriciated....
G4 Quicksilver Dual 1 Gig, 1.75 RAM, Logic 7.1.1, 64mb graphic card - Gotta change IT! Mac OS X (10.4.7)

The only gotcha with PDC, is that if you have some
hefty delay-inducing plugins that Logic has to
compensate for by shifting some audio paths
backwards, when you record, you are monitoring the
audio later than it is, and hence your recordings may
well be early/late (depending on what you're doing).
OK. So as I understand it it's a catch-22... if prior to tracking new parts you find that some existing parts are sounding late due to various plugs' inherent latency, you turn on PDC (perhaps set to ALL). But then when you're tracking against those parts, your new parts will sound out-of-time upon playback (and how the heck would you ever punch-in in time while tracking?). So it seems that for tracking you must have PDC off.
But then, those parts that originally sounded late still sound late. So do you turn PDC back on? Hence, catch-22...
Ouch.
(mind you, that's a general "ouch" and not a Logic-bashing "ouch", cuz I have the feeling that this situation is not exclusive to Logic).
I'm sure there was an explanation to all of this in
the manual somewhere, I'll go a see if I can find
it...
Cool, thanks, that would be great.

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Hi,
As much as I love and need Logic, this one makes me sick.
If there's DC enabled, you obviously can't do any Midi/VI-Recordings and you can't do audio recordings which should play back as you recorded them.
How can, I almost wrote emagic, Apple release something like this and leave it in this state since 7.1? This is not acceptable for a pro app, I can't wrap around my way of doing things and first record all stuff and then turn on DC and mix ...
Even worse, always go to the preference pane or listen if I hear some flams, to know if I'm allowed to record or not (by checking DC status).
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The lack of Automatic Delay Compensation in Logic 7 forced me to switch to Protools. There, ADC is brilliant. The days of phase problems are gone and when u hit record in protools it automatically disables ADC unless one sets the prefs to not disable. ADC in Logic is a disaster. The ADC works on some channels with certain audio hardware (not all) and doing all the work arounds every tiime is killing ones workflow. I miss logic at times but I cannot go back to using it till at least the ADC is implemented specially when working with 96 SRates. Also - but this only regards protools hardware users: ADC dont work with protools Hardware in logic 7 - ADC is totally disregarded using the DAE even though apple states that they support DAE - the do support the DAE but only like 20% of the total DAE capabilities.....this IMO is outrageous and this funny business policy cant stand tooo long!!! I am not the only one who switched and I wont be the last....
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Hey guys,
I've noticed lately that the plugin delay compensation doesn't seem to be working like it should. I'm not sure if I'm going mad or not...
When I'm using Drumagog (drum replacement plugin), Logic is very good at dealing with the latency, even when increase the accuracy (therefore usually adding more latency). However, it doesn't seem to be doing that properly and I'm not sure why.
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James,
I think you're onto something there.
I have noticed too that the Logic 9 misbehaves from time to time when it comes to delay compensation. From my experience it happens when you create an average to large mixing project with a number of plugins on channels (possibly with settings dependent latencies).
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1. In some cases it over-compensates - that is the channel in question suddenly played ahead of the time even though visually it was aligned with the others (but in some other cases under-compensates).
2. I have noticed that saving the channel strip settings, resetting the channel strip and reloading the same setting rectifies the delay over-compensation. To me it appears that the "delay compensation" system does not recheck/recalculate the plugins current delays after any change is made in channel/plug-in (or even adding plugins, or does it only partially) - I do suspect that it gets screwed up when the plugin changes its latency based on its settings but Logic fails to recalculate.
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3. With such larger projects the sound comes out noticeably later than the play-head's position is which makes it very hard to locate precisely positions in your track.
These problems did not seem evident in Logic 8, but have to admit I haven't run as large projects in Logic 8 as I'm doing now in Logic 9 (80-100 tracks with 2-6 plugins in some channels).
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It's a common practice to insert a Logic compressor on a bass track and set the sidechain to a kick drum sent to a bus. So if your drums are coming from a multi-output virtual instrument and the source for the sidechain is NOT the main outs, then automatic delay compensation breaks. Unfortunately, this means you can't sidechain to any additional outputs. Your kick has to be on the main instrument channel outputs, sent to a bus, which the sidechain points to. Otherwise, no go.
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Alien Implant wrote:
I'd be interested in what you experience if you try my scenario as I described >it, with the Logic compressor on a bass track with the sidechain pointing at a >bus with an Aux channel (any output other than the instrument mains) of Ultrabeat >loaded as a multi-instrument (12 or 16 outputs or whatever max it allows).
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*Sidechain Timing test* - [QUICK VIDEO|http://audiogrocery.com/video/sidechain_test.zip]
!http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4967/aglogo45.gif!

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Jonathan Timpe wrote:
Perhaps I should just start using space designer? Does it suffer from the same PDC problems?
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Perhaps I need to develop more "reverb imagination" skills and none of this would be a problem.
This may be a dangerous suggestion, but assuming you have a decent knowledge of the sound of a real orchestra, I would tend to compose with that in mind rather than exactly what your sample library sounds like. The goal, after you've done the bulk of the composing, is to try to get your library to sound as much like the real thing as you can. Remember, it wasn't all that long ago that film scores we composed with no MIDI at all, no immediate feedback on the sound of a motive, harmony etc. Obviously, if the end product is going to be in VIs instead of live instruments, you need to keep the sound of your library in mind. But ideally, you don't rely on hearing every little thing exactly as it will be on the track in order to compose. I know that's harder than it sounds, and I too am guilty of relying a bit too much on immediate feedback, but I think it's worth while. So rather than "reverb imagination," I'd suggest developing a better "instrument imagination," and let reverb be more of a finishing touch (albeit a very necessary one).
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I should point out that I'm not exactly a pro at this (though I'm trying to get there), so someone else could probably offer better solutions.

EMAGIC VS Apple - Plug In Delay Compensation

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