Embedding a camera profile in DNG

I've read that camera profiles can be embedded in a DNG file; how does one do this?

When you have save a DNG from Camera Raw, the currently selected camera profile is embedded in the resulting DNG.

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"Embedded" camera profile for .dng file?

Why does Lightroom 5 show "embedded" as an option for camera profile for .dng files created by my pentax k-30? I thought that "embedded" profiles did not apply to .dng files?

A JPG can contain color profile data not just a reference tag containing the name, although other Google results indicate that the APP2 segment is only has 65533 bytes of data and if the profile is too large for that then it is either chunked somehow or written into an XMP segment:
http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/javax/imageio/metadata/doc-files/jpeg_metadata.ht ml#color
“If the ColorSpace of the image is based on a non-standard ICC Profile, then that profile is embedded in an APP2 marker segment. If the ColorSpace is not based on a non-standard ICC Profile, but an app2ICC node appears in the metadata, then an APP2 marker segment is written with the appropriate standard profile. Note that the profile must specify an RGB color space, as the file must be JFIF compliant.”
EXIFtool can extract and embed a profile:
http://cpanforum.com/threads/2873

Camera Profiles and DNG Profile Editor beta 2 now available

Hi everyone,
Beta 2 of the camera profiles and DNG Profile Editor are now available. Please visit here and enjoy:
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles
I hope to have more detailed release notes/changes for you soon. You are welcome to ask questions, but please note that it may take a while for me to respond.
Eric

Eric,
I followed very carefully your instructions for installing the new beta2 profiles and deleting the beta1 profiles, but have the same problems as many others. I'd like to provide a bit more information. I'm running Windows Vista Home Premium and have installed Photoshop CS4, updated with ACR5.1 and Lightroom 2.1 final release. As others have described, the default for all of my images was set to one of the Camera profiles (Canon faithful beta1), but now the profile name in Lightroom is blank. I tried looking at the other profiles and it does indeed appear that the beta2 profile is being used, but if I then reset the image it now shows ACR4.4, whereas the image had been imported with the camera profile as default. Also, if I open an image in ACR5.1 that was specified to use the same camera profile, it now shows ACR4.4 and it is not using the beta2 profile of what I had been using, I can see this by selecting the other profiles. Going back to Lightoom, I guess I could select all my images and select the Canon faithful beta2 profile, but then the mark shows up bottom right of the image showing that they have all been edited/modified, is there anyway to get all my images using the profile I was using but the beta2 version, without this happening and how about new imports?
Thanks, David.

Camera profiles in DNG from camera (Leica S2, M8)

Hi all,
I´m reviewing captures from the Leica S2, which is saving Raw in the DNG format after capture. There is only one camera profile in the DNG files ("embedded"). Compared to a JPEG (mode DNG+JPG for capture) of the same shot the color rendering with the embedded profile is more saturated and slightly shifted in the hues. Greens get an ugly plastic look.
I have captures with Leica M8, too. They have more camera profiles: Embedded, Adobe Standard, Camera Standard and ACR legacy (3.6, 4.4).
As I understand Leica M8 DNGs are supported by Adobe with camera specific camera profiles while Leica S2 DNGs are NOT supported by Adobe with specific camera profiles.
Please can someone clarify this?
Second question: Is the Leica S2 embedded profile a camera specific profile (from Leica) or a general camera profile? Who is in charge for the embedded profile?
Mike
((posted this yesterday in DNG forum too, but this forum seems to be more visited))

Jeff Schewe wrote:
As far as I can see, any support for the S2 raw files is preliminary (which means it's NOT officially supported with a full range of color profiles).
Jeff,
I´ve got shots from two S2 cameras and they are pre-production (in terms of firmware, Leica will update this).
I process them with ACR 5.6 / LR 2.6.
As far as I understand "embedded" means color rendering as supposed by the camera maker (in this case Leica) and "Adobe Standard" does mean an official camera profile from Adobe. "Embedded" is pretty close to the color rendering of the S2´s JPEGs.
By the way, Capture One does open the DNG with a "DNG File Neutral" ICC profile. The color rendering is quite different. I know there is no DNG camera profile support in other applications than ACR/LR.

Is it possible to embed camera profiles in DNGs?

I convert my Canon 60D CR2s to DNG via the DNG converter, but also use Camera RAW in Photoshop CS5, which has lens profile support, and sometimes PTLens via a plugin in Aperture to avoid starting up Photoshop.
Is it possible to embed camera profiles into a DNG, either with Adobe software, or other 3rd part software, so that Aperture can read it? Aperture uses the system Raw support, and since it does support embedded lens profiles, such as from some Micro 4/3rd cameras, which gives Aperture rudimentary support for them.
So, is there any way to embed lens profiles into my converted DNGs with any available software? I'm OK with command line utilities, so if there is a techy way, I can devise a script (hopefully) to add it automatically. I do have PTLens, which has a lens profile database (though perhaps encrypted), and I think Hugin supports the LensFun database as well.

I have only experimented a little bit with the profile creator, so don't take this as an expert answer. It seems to me that the profiles are saved with an identifier linking them to the appropriate camera model. Apparently what you would have to do is find a way to edit that profile and modify that identifier to point it to a different model.

Lightroom 5.7 Not Showing Camera Profiles from DNG File

Hello,
I just installed Adobe DNG Converter 9.0 and converted some Nikon D7200 fles to DNG for import into Lightroom 5.7. This works fine except for the Camera Specific profiles not showing up. Only Adobe Standard shows up.
When I open the same DNG file in Adobe Camera Raw in Photoshop CS6, [it] properly shows all the camera specific profiles for the D7200. What am I doing wrong?
Here is what the develop module Camera Profile drop down menu looks like in LR 5.7
And in Photoshop CS6 Adobe Camera RAW ( ACR ) 8.7.1.311
Thanks for your insight.

gonzalu, the reason is because the profiles are installed separately for Camera Raw vs Lightroom.
If you're using Lr 5.x, then to get the extra D7200 profiles visible in Lr, you'll need to manually copy/install them. Try looking here:
C:\ProgramData\Adobe\CameraRaw\CameraProfiles\Camera\Nikon D7200
and copy the contents of that folder to here:
C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\CameraRaw\CameraProfiles
(where you should substitute your actual username, above).
Then restart Lr and the profiles should be visible now.
(You don't need to do this step if you're running Lr CC, because the new profiles are included with that installation.)

**-Camera Profiles and DNG Profile Editor FAQ-**

A page containing answers to Frequently Asked Questions about Camera Profiles and the DNG Profile Editor can be found
here

New FAQ entries:
What changed between beta 1 and beta 2?
Is it safe to delete beta 1 profiles? What will happen if I do?
I now have the beta 2 profiles and want to delete the older beta 1 profiles. How do I do this?
Please read carefully.

Camera Profiles and DNG Profile Editor

I saw the lightroom 2.0 eseminar and the presenter mentioned Camera Profiles and the DNG Profile Editor. All I see is ACR4.4 and 4.3. The the FAQ page says I need ACR4.5 and I can't find it and haven't gotten any update notice. Should I just wait for an update or forget it?
Don

>I have CS4. Will this overwrite ACR 5.1 in CS4?
If you have CS4, you should update to ACR 5.2. If you install 4.6, you will break your CS4 install. Either just run the Adobe updater app, or go to http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/new.jsp to download it. DNG converter is a separate download. Both camera RAW and NDG converter contain the final release version of the new profiles. DNG profile editor can still be downloaded from Adobe Labs: http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles. There is also a profiles download there that you don't need if you install DNG converter 5.2.

Created custom camera profile in DNG editor and can't find it in LR

I have created custom camera profiles and can't find them in Lightroom 3. Can someone help? I'm a Mac user.
David

I figured it out. I saved the profile, but I did not export it.
Thanks for the help everyone.
I was primarily interested in doing a custom tone curve to match my Mark IV to my 5D. The results were really bad, so I re did the profiles to simply get close colors, and I used the Point Tone Curve to match the two cameras. I've always liked the tone curve from the 5D, and I've always hated the one on the Mark IV.
Problem Solved.
Thanks again.
David

Camera Profiles and DNG Profile Editor in LR2??

This link describes the subject above. Did this make it into LR2?
http://www.computer-darkroom.com/lr2_review/lr2-review-3.htm

http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles

LR 4 and custom DNG camera profiles... they are not embedded?!

i have the colorchecker passport for some days.
my workflow:
import the .CR2 raw files from memorycard as DNG copy into lightroom.
create a DNG camera profile with the colorchecker passport (LR export -> xrite colorchecker).
then i choose the created camera profile and i set the whitebalance.
all working fine... as it should.
my problem is, i don´t want to have a hundred DNG profiles, i will sure create that much over the time, on my harddisk.
i think it´s messy and it´s also not very save to have the profiles only as separate files, in case you lose the profiles.
i thought the camera profile can be embedded INTO the DNG file.
i thought the camera profile is written into the DNG files when i write the metadata back into the files.. but it seems not.
it seems the DNG camera profile is only embedded into the DNG image file when i EXPORT the DNG file again with the LR export dialog.
for example:
i choose the camera profil "MY 5D MK2 PROFIL_1" for an image and then save the metadata back into the DNG image file.
then i delete the camera profile "MY 5D MK2 PROFIL_1" from harddisk.
the next time i open LR and select the same image ... the cameraprofile is reverted back to "adobe standard" and the profil i have created is gone.
when i EXPORT the image as DNG, then even after i have deleted the DNG cameraprofile "MY 5D MK2 PROFIL_1" from the hardisk.... the profil is still in the DNG image.
that´s what i want... but i have to export all files again as DNG files.
i would really like to get rid of this extra step.
i hope my english is good enough so you understand what my problem is.
can anyone share a light on this?
is this the only way to embedd the DNG camera profile or im doing something wrong?
intel i7 2600k, win7 64bit, 16 GB ram, LR 4 final.

possible.... but imho that can lead (at least in my case ) to problems.
in the case when you forget to update the DNG manually and delete the profiles (because you think they are already embeded via STRG+S).
or when you send them to someone without updating the DNG preview... i think that is unessesary complicating things without gaining a real benefit.. not?
afaik there is no filter option so you can create a smartfilter for images that need to be updated this way?

Apply DNG Camera Profile to scan?

I am setting up a workflow to scan and process a large volume of slides. I am scanning with a Nikon LS5000 and Vuescan, outputting as (linear)DNG and then processing in Lightroom.
For me this is efficient as it unifies my digital and analogue workflows. I could also just output a raw tiff (not color corrected), but I like the smaller file size and the embedding of LR settings with DNG.
I have done test scans for which I then created a custom color correction profile in the DNG profile editor. I am very happy with the level of control over color in the profile editor, and would like to use this to apply color correction to batches of scans shot on a particular film type (kodachrome for example). I know these tools are designed to be used with camera raw, but they perform equally well with linear files.
The problem is that as the dng file was not created by a camera, but a scanner (even though the EXIF data shows the LS5000 as 'camera') I can not get the profile to show up in the Camera Calibration/Profile tab in order to apply it to an image.
Questions:
1- Is there any way to force the profile to load anyway? (LR could have an 'other' option in the profile tab)
2- Can I get LR/Profile Editor to consider the LS5000 as a legitimate camera, as opposed to just producing a generic tiff?
3- Can I somehow manually embed my custom profile into a DNG so that the embedded profile is automatically the right one?
Thanks.

I am aware of the issue with the Nef files, as I found out that they are different from Nef camera files and not read by the DNG converter, or anything other than nikon scan.
There are options though in vuescan with any scanner that allow you to disable all adjustments and export as a 'raw' file, either in tiff or dng format. Vuescan is then primarily used to control the hardware. The only processing that is applied to the scan is the calibration (correcting for variations in intensity in the ccd), and optionally IR-dust removal. The important part is that there is no base curve, gamma, and no color adjustment or icc-profile applied. For practical purposes LR could treat it as raw.
As a hamburger it would be very rare and decidedly pink on the inside. The main 'cooking' should ideally be happening in LR by applying the base curve and color adjustments in one action (camera profile + adjustments) as opposed to in two stages (scanner software followed by PS/LR). My objective is to minimize the 'destructive' scanner software step, as I only want to scan once.

DNG Converter 5.2 and Camera Profiles

Hi!
I tried to search for an answer but did not find any.
Question - how and when DNG Converter will use Camera Profiles?
How do I specify which profile to use?
I assume it can use them - version 5.2 comes bundled with them...
Тhanks for the help!
P.S. Since new version has installer, I'd suggest to create uninstaller too.

>This somehow implies that DNG Converter reads settings from installed Lightroom. I'm not sure that this is the case - DNG Converter seems to be completely independent product.
Yes, it does...for the camera model, if you have modified the Camera Raw Default in either Lightroom or Camera Raw then DNG Converter will use the user specified default. If there is no user set default, then of course will use the regular Camera Raw Defaultwhich in the case of 5.2 is now Adobe Standard. (I can't remember what version of DNG Converter started reading the CR prefs).
>If I give DNG file to someone, who uses DNG-compatible program (other than Adobe's), do I have to give him all profiles as well?
If you are using a "custom" profile other than Adobe Standard, the behavior is to embed that profile in the DNG so it is self describing. The only complicating factor is what version of Camera Raw/Lightroom the recipient is using. If they are using a version prior to Lightroom 2 or Camera Raw 4.5, then those older versions ignore the embedded profiles and will use the earlier simple profiles that have been used since DNG/ACR was introduced.
As for checking on updating the DNG Profiles in the future, DNG Converter, as it's rev'ed, will include any new profiles that come out and will update them for any already installed and add any new profiles available for a given camera. The odds of updating existing DNG Profiles is not largethat's what the 2 beta rounds was for, to shake them out. But it's possible. It's more likely that profiles for new cameras will be added.

Looking inside of DNG Camera Profiles and editing them

For those interested in the insides of DNG Camera profiles, and how to edit them, I've written dcpTool.
dcpTool is a compiler/decompiler for DNG camera profiles (.dcp files). dcpTool can decompile binary format DCP files into an XML format for editing with a text editor or whatever, and then compile the XML format file back into a binary DCP file, as well as extract embedded profiles from DNG files. It runs on Windows and OS X command lines, and is based on V1.2 of the DNG SDK.
See here: http://dcptool.sourceforge.net/
Health warning: dcpTool is a command line utility - if you're not comfortable with command line stuff, dcpTool probably won't be of any interest to you.

Very cool, thanks for the info.

Camera profile with CS2 and DNG

If I embed a camera profile in a DNG file and open it in ACR for Photoshop CS2, will I have the benefit of the camera profile?

Thank you. I had seen that FAQ; I was hoping that by embedding the profile in a DNG, I would get around the incompatability.
Frankly, I don't see what's so special about a profile that they can't get CS2 to support it. Kinda annoying, when combined with the fact that CS2 doesn't support new cameras. It seems that's merely aimed at getting people to upgrade and spend $$$. Even Microsoft supports their legacy products for a few years!

Embedding a camera profile in DNG

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