Encoding aif to ac3 for DVD raises volume

MacPro (early 2008)
2 GB RAM
OS 10.5.8
Compressor 3.0.5
DVD Studio Pro 4.2.1
Soundtrack Pro 2.0.2
1) I encode my 50 sec long .aif to an ac3 using Compressor.
2) Import to DVD Studio Pro to a track within my show.
3) Burn DVD.
Play in several different DVD players and it seems that the volume has been increased by about 10 db vs. the level I had mixed in Soundtrack Pro 2.
Here are the settings I use in Compressor:
Audio Tab:
Target System: DVD Video
Audio Coding Mode: stereo 2/0 LR
Sample Rate: 48 kHz
Data Rate: 192 kbps.
Bit Stream Mode: Complete Main
Dialog Normalization: -31
Bitstream Tab:
Center Downmix: -3.0 dB
Surround Downmix: -3.0 dB
Dolby Surround Mode: Not Indicated
Copyright Exists (checked)
Content is Original (checked)
Audio Production Information (unchecked)
Preprocessing Tab:
Compression: none
General Digital Deemphasis (unchecked)
LFE Channel: Low-Pass Filter (checked and greyed out)
Full Bandwidth Chan. Low Pass Filter (checked); DC Filter (checked)
Surround Channels 90 percent Phase-Shift (checked and greyed out)

Thanks for the detailed post.
Are you playing the disk through the same audio mixer as how you monitor your audio from the computer? Unless you have the same monitoring path for both streams, it's hard to say whether the audio is really louder.
This is how I monitor -
• FCP playback- it goes to a Matrox MXO2mini, then the audio goes to a Mackie mixer, then to a set of near field speakers.
• DVD playback from a stand alone DVD player - the audio goes directly to the same Mackie mixer then to the same speakers.
With the gain on the channels set to the same level and the output slider on each channel set the same and the master output level set the same, it would be noticeable if there is a difference between FCP playback and DVD playback. I can say I haven't noticed it.
How are you monitoring?
x
edit - what happens if you take the ac3, convert it back to aiff and play it within STP. Does it exhibit a change in gain or does it still play to the same RMS levels?

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I can't find the post, but I saved it...Here it is:
Like most of you, I was annoyed to find out I couldn't create AC3 surround sound files with my CS4 software, and also that we got downgraded from Audition to Soundbooth. We all paid a lot for it! I know many people have ranted about that already, so enough said.
Here is a workflow that gets around that problem without ponying up for the SurCode Plug-in, and/or buying Audition!
To convert your mixed 5.1 audio, or stereo audio, to the DVD standard AC3 file that Encore wants, download the latest version of Audacity here:http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ It is available for Mac OS X, Microsoft Windows, GNU/Linux, and other operating systems. If you don't know already, it's free!
Now, before I start getting flamed, about Audacity, it works great! The UI is not the most modern, but the quality is top-notch. I've used it for years and most complaints about it are unjustified.
You'll need to download the latest version: "Beta: 1.3x - for advanced users." There will soon, I hope, be an Audacity 2.0 stable release. Until then, use the Beta release for this workflow.
Note: I'll focus on Premiere Pro CS4, because that is where I originally troubleshooted this, but something similar will work for the other Adobe products that use sound.
Workflow:
Create your mixed 5.1 surround sound audio in Premiere, and output the audio only by going to File > Export > Media, and selecting "Windows Waveform" as the output. You should only have "Export Audio" checked. Verify the format in the Summary section. You should see something like: 48000 Hz, 5.1 Surround, 16 bit. Now under Audio codec, make sure "Uncompressed" is selected. Click Okay, and Adobe Media Encoder should launch. Click "Start Queue" and your audio file will be created. You'll get an interleaved 6 channel wave file. Not all applications will open it, but Audacity will.
Note: When you mix your surround sound in the Audio Mixer, you'll place your little "Puck" where you want the sound to come from. Picture yourself in the middle of the "dish," if it's a puck, isn't it in a rink, as in hockey rink...ah, but I digress. Anyway, you'll notice that volume meters in the 5.1 (6 channel) Master section are laid out in the following order: L,R,LS,RS,C,LFE. Also, if you open a 5.1 audio file in the Source panel, you'll see the same order from top to bottom: L,R,LS,RS,C,LFE.   Soundbooth also does it that way. Ahh....Adobe...nice try.
The actual channel order should be L,R,C,LFE,LS,RS. That's the order that you'll probably have to assign in the "Audio Output Mapping" section in the properties menu to get your channels to play correctly with your surround sound hardware. L,R,C,LFE,LS,RS is also the order that interleaved files use. So after you create your 5.1 file, and open it in another audio program that displays them in the "proper" order, like Audacity, you'll see your tracks laid out from top to bottom in that order. I'm not sure why Adobe does it that way, but oh well.
Surround sound primer:
The LFE channel is not, despite popular misconception, a subwoofer channel. Bass from all the channels in a surround sound Amplifier is summed and sent out to the Subwoofer. The LFE channel is supposed to be used only for very low frequencies, to create extra ...oomph. I think that is the technical term. It is not supposed to be used for bass frequencies from the other tracks. It is for explosions, dinosaur footsteps, ...etc.
Audacity will open DVD ".vob" files, and even let you select which stream (usually Language) to open. As an example, open up a movie with some action in it like Ironman (The movie starts at "VTS_03_1.vob") and look at the LFE channel. It's the 4th track from the top in Audacity. You'll see it's silent except at parts where there is thumping AC/DC music at the Intro, or explosions. It's not used as a subwoofer channel!
With that in mind, you may have noticed, unless I'm missing something, that there is no way in the Premiere Mixer to assign an audio track only to the LFE channel. Sure, you can dial up the "Bass Clef" knob to 0.00 db, and send a mono channel's audio to the LFE channel, but there is no place to put the "Puck" that only outputs to LFE. There is one for the center channel, but without someplace to put it, your 40 Hz dinosaur footprint "Thump" is going to also be assigned to some of the other channels. Which channels depends on your "Puck" placement. This is not correct. Again, unless I'm missing something, Adobe needs to correct this oversight. We'll get back to this problem with a solution later, but first let's continue with the AC3 issue.
At this point you should have your wave file. If you want to apply any global changes to all 6 channels, you can open it in Adobe Soundbooth and trim the beginning or end, and apply effects to the entire file. You cannot, however, make changes to individual channels. Audacity will! We'll get to that later.
Encode with Audacity:
Install the software and go to Edit > Preferences > Libraries, and click on "Download" for the "FFmpeg Library." This is the library that Audacity will use to create the .AC3 file. Once installed, the library version should show up next to "FFmpeg Library Version" While the "Audacity Preferences" window is still open, select "Import/Export" and select "Use Custom Mix", this is used to export a 5.1 channel file. Now you're ready to open your .wave file from Premiere. Drag and drop it in the Audacity workspace and you should see 6 mono tracks laid out from top to bottom in the following order: L,R,C,LFE,LS,RS. Audacity will let you edit the individual tracks, unlike Soundbooth, thanks Adobe. But for now, we'll keep it simple. Set your "Project Rate" in audacity in the lower-left corner to what you want the AC3 file to be. For DVD, chose 48000 (Hz). If you leave it at 44100 (Hz) Encore won't import it.
Your almost done. Now let's export the file. Go to Files > Export... > and select "AC3 Files (FFmpeg)" in the "Save as type:" drop-down. Click the "Options..." button and set the "Bit Rate:" for your file. For 5.1 AC3 audio, probably 448. Now enter a file name and click "Save." This will open the "Advanced Mixing Options" window. This allows you to re-map the tracks to a different channel order. It should be correct, and it should show "Output Channels:" set to 6. Press "OK" and you're done.
Presto, you have a 5.1 channel AC3 file. Use that in Encore, or whatever DVD creation program you use, and when you play your DVD you'll have full 5.1 audio coming out your surround sound Amplifier. That is if you have one.
Test your file:
If you want to test your file, you can do a couple of things. Since Soundbooth and Adobe Bridge won't even open AC3 files, and Encore will open but only play the Left and Right channels in the preview, you'll have to either import the file into Premiere, or use another media player.
If you got Premiere to play your surround properly, then you can drag and drop the file into the "Project" panel and preview it from there. You will hear all 6 channels in the correct speakers, but I did notice that the quality is not very good. Maybe Premiere doesn't decode AC3 all that well. I heard some crackle that isn't in the file. How do I know it isn't just a bad encoding job by Audacity? Because I played the file with the VLC media player, and Cyberlink PowerDVD on the same computer, and also on a DVD in my home theater system with no artifacts. Maybe Premiere doesn't decode AC3 files well.
The VLC player, will play almost any file in the known universe, and at least on my computer, it automatically played the AC3 surround file, created by Audacity, with all the channels mapped correctly. That's right, full surround out my speakers with only default settings. It's a great player. Get it for free here: http://www.videolan.org/
Test with Encore:
So far so good. Now open Encore, drop the AC3 file in an empty project, throw it on a Timeline and build the project without Video, It will autoplay without a menu this way. If you set the End-Action to the same AC3 file it will repeat continuously. Either burn this to DVD-RW and test it in your DVD player, or better yet, Build the project to a DVD Image instead, and mount it in a virtual DVD   Drive with a program like "Virtual CloneDrive."
If you don't know what that is, or how to do it, it is very simple. Go to:http://www.slysoft.com/en/ and download "Virtual Clonedrive." It is free. It tricks your operating system into thinking you have another physical DVD drive. In fact, it can create up to 8 virtual drives. Now you don't have to waste time burning, and erasing DVD's every time you make a change to a project. You can build your project as a DVD Image from Encore, save the .iso file to your Desktop and "mount" it (load it) in Virtual Clonedrive. You're computer will now think you loaded a DVD into a physical drive, and launch whatever DVD player you have installed. Mine launches "Cyberlink PowerDVD" which plays the AC3 audio-only DVD in full surround sound on my computer.
Building and testing projects this way will save you endless hours. If you need to make a quick change, just "Unmount" the .iso in Virtual Clonedrive, rebuild your project to the same filename, and "Mount" it again. Instant testing!
Now, as promised, back to that LFE Channel problem with Premiere that I mentioned:
Audacity will let you modify the individual channels in your interleaved 6-Channel file. So don't put anything in that channel in your Premiere mixer. Leave the "Bass Clef" knobs at full CCW position ( -00 db ). The bass from the other channels will go to your subwoofer automatically in your Amplifier.
Now if you have some low frequency effects files, open them in Audacity. You can open multiple instances of Audacity at the same time by going to "File > New." Then, copy and paste them into the LFE Track at the correct point.
Audacity newbie Hint: Audacity doesn't yet have a "Mix-Paste" function, so to avoid altering the track length as you paste in your clips, do the following: Select the LFE track by clicking on it's info area. The info area should say something like "Mono, 48000Hz" Then press "Delete," That will remove everything from the track. Now copy and paste your clips into the track by clicking once with the "Selection Tool" where you want the clip to start, and selecting "Edit > Paste." If you need to fine tune the position of the pasted clip, use the "Time Shift Tool" to move it left or right. If you work from left to right, then you won't push clips over when you paste new ones in.
There is another way to do this by opening up new tracks, using the "Mix and Render" function, and re-ordering the tracks to maintain the L,R,C,LFE,LS,RS channel order. But that's for advanced users.

Exporting for DVD requires extremely low volumes, is that normal?

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I have completed a project and when exporting to dvd I find I need to lower the master volume by 18 db for it to not cause tv speakers to pop, I try it out on several different tv's with the same result.
When I mix my audio none of it exceeds 0 db, nothing is in the red and nonetheless I lowered by 6 db, but it won't be enough until I export at -18 Db.
I do this by lowerng the master audio level from 0 to -18.
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Hunt, thanks for the reply!
I do the same, well I use beyer dynamic dt 770 pro headphones for monitoring, then I test the audio out on a stereo and a 5.1 surround setup.
If I export the audio on a cd it sounds great everywhere, put it on dvd and it goes to hell.
Is it possible that audio cd's are at 44100 16 bit wheras dvd audio is 48000 khz?
Doesn't make much sense to me, but the way I see it the irony is this:
Play and audio cd where the audio peaks at 0db through your tv and it sounds great, play a dvd with the same audio on it and it kills the speakers :S
Is it possible that mpeg2 encoding boosts audio levels for some reason and you need to correct it by pushing audio levels down?
I found this link after doing some research:
http://dvcreators.net/discuss/showthread.php?t=25404
Basically this question was asked:
1. *is there a certain db level an audio track should be if you plan to burn to DVD?
amongst others,
The reply was:
Use the audio meters to gauge audio level. Peaks should be at -16 to -12.
Why is this do you think?
-2 db would not work when I burn to dvd, it would kill the speakers of either a surround system or a stereo tv system, including my samung hdtv.
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Workflow for DVD

Hello -
I have 1:57 mins. of video that I exported from FCP (MOV) Self Contained.
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Additional info:
-Imported Video to FCP from MINI-DV tapes
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-Ratio = 4:3

Do I take it to Compressor then DVD Studio Pro or straight to DVD Studio Pro?
Do take it to Compressor, which offers you best presets and one that should be just right for you:
DVD best quality 150 minutes. The important thing is that Compressor will encode sound to ac3, which is perfect for DVD while DVDstudioPro won't and your audio could take just too much disk space.

Encoding aif to ac3 for DVD raises volume

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