Environment Multi-Instrument = CPU Overload

Hey All,
I've had this persisting problem in the Logic 8 environment regarding the Multi-Instrument object.
The story goes that linking several software instruments to a multi-instrument, no matter what they are, throws all of the processing onto one CPU - quickly destroying the thing... tearing, clipping etc.
It seems so simple yet I have no idea where this comes from.
If I remove the multi-instrument connections and link those exact same instruments playing exactly the same material to the sequencer (like normal), everything goes through perfectly and all of the processors get involved.
It looks as though the multi-instrument object is syphoning and clogging up the midi and possibly the instrument rendering onto ONE processor...
Has anyone ever heard of this?
Thanks!
Trevor

Look at this thread:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1789402&tstart=15
for a probable explanation.

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Environment multi-instrument frustrations.

I have done an extensive search on this and other forums on setting up a multi-instrument in the environment for the purposes of getting logic to display the patch names of my external synths complete with the ability to change sounds and banks from the arrange window. So far most people have advised to search the web for existing multis done by others for the respective instruments and how exactly to do this has been greatly covered. Unfortunately I have not seen too much info out there on exactly how to set up your own from scratch, save for a few basics like the following excerpt:
"Open Logic's environment and create or use multi-instrument for the desired device.
Double click it to open the patch list. This will be pre-filled with the GM list most likely.
Paste the list of patches copied from the master text file list replacing what's there.
Set custom bank-change messages as needed, and set patches for each bank.
The docs go into more detail on creating multi-instruments, setting custom bank change messages, etc."
What I don't get is the last part, "Set custom bank-change messages as needed, and set patches for each bank", and seemingly everyone assumes this is common knowledge. Well clearly it's not because I have no clue how to do this. The excerpt mentions a "doc" that goes into "more detail" on setting custom bank changes and I'm assuming he's referring to the manual. Well my logic shipment did not include a printed manual and the PDF version is as basic as it gets in this regard. So I guess my question would be where can I find detailed information on setting up bank/program changes starting with the definition and explanation of basic things like msb and lsb. I understand that a great part of this might have something to do with my shallow knowledge of MIDI as a subject but any help would be appreciated.
A link maybe?
Thanks.

Ok, where do we start.
Way back in time, like, 20 years ago, MIDI devices came of age and it showed that the previously defined range of 128 program numbers wasn't enough to access all sounds on board. Thus the concept of Banks was born. There was a specific set of Bank Change commands defined, but since its exact use was not specified, many manufacturers implemented them a bit different. Thus the necessity to have flexible bank management tools in Logic.
The idea is this: For each Multi Instrument, which represents a real, usually multi-timbral MIDI module, there is a separate list of commands which, when sent to the synth, switch to the desired bank.
You first need to know what MIDI command or sequence of MIDI commands your synth expects. Look it up in its documentation. For instance, my Waldorf Microwave II manual points out that CC 0 with values 0 and 1 will select banks A or B on the instrument. Consulting my Roland JV2080's manual, in and of itself nothing for the faint hearted, reveals, after some serious head scratching, that a sequence of CC 0 value 80 followed by CC 32 value 0 will select Bank 0 on the instrument, and for Bank 1, I'd need to send CC0 val 81 and CC 32 val 0.
Once you have this info, select the Multi Instrument and Options>Define Custom Bank Messages. A list will pop up. Fill it so it looks like this for a Microwave II:
!http://home.arcor.de/fuzzfilth/Other/cbm/cbm1.png!
or like this for a JV2080:
!http://home.arcor.de/fuzzfilth/Other/cbm/cbm2.png!
Close the window and save the Project as a Template.
Done
Christian

How Do I Import Multi Instrument/Environment Page From Lp7 Into LP8?

I've just started using LP Studio and I'm trying to use the multi instrument setup that I have in LP7 but I cannot find a way to import or copy them into 8.
Any idea/help will be greatly appreciated.

You do it the same way you did in L7.
In the Environment choose Options > Import Environment > Layer and it will ask you to lead it to the L7 project/song you wish to import it from and choose the layer.

What setting should I use for Abbey Road drums? Getting a cpu overload issue

What setting should I use for Abbey Road drums (i.e. multi-output, stereo, etc)? Getting a cpu overload issue. I have a macbook pro, 4 gb ram, running Logic Pro 9. Just 3 tracks of drums and a few real instrument tracks. Can't find a guide in the manual for either Kontakt or Logic. Thanks in advance!

Hi
AR drums are complete resource (CPU) hogs. They work better if you turn off as many of the AR internal plugins as you can.
See section 4 (?) of the AR manual, which you can find within Kontakt (In the library area of Kontakt click hold the small "i" on the right of the "AR drummer" Library).
Alternatively, your only solution is to increase the I/O buffer in Preferences:Audio, with the associated increase in latency
CCT

Multi-Instrument + Multi-Thread problem found

Right.....I have done a lot of research on why logic was not multi-threading correctly and have narrowed it down to one problem...using Kontakt as a multi instrument.
My Mac is a 2 x 2.26 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon. This means that it is capable of distributing work loads over the multiple cores of the CPU to prevent core audio overloads from happening.
If I run any plug ins in stereo or mono mode, the CPU acts as it should; I will load up a program, add processing and when the load is becoming a strain for the CPU, I use a bus send and work on that, then the workload is redistributed across more of the cores by logic, allowing me to continue working.
However, I need to use Kontakt as a multi instrument. I usually have 3 instances of Kontakt open and on each one of these, I usually have a minimum of 10 outputs being sent to the aux channels of logic. Therefore using Kontakt as a stereo instrument is not an option, as I would have to open around 30 instances!
Here is the problem; say for example, in Kontakt I send a kick drum out of Kontakt into AUX 3 + 4. The AUX channel in logic will being to show output. I can now EQ this single kick drum seperate from any other sound in logic.
If I began to add processor heavy plug ins to this AUX output, rather than share the workload across the cores as it should and does with stereo instruments, logic now only uses a single core and it will core audio overload very quickly.
As I said, this only happens when I set up Kontakt as a multi instrument. The main problem is when I begin to have many different outputs from my 3 instances of Kontakt, as by this stage, many different sounds will have processing. All 3 multi instruments and their processing are then controlled by the single processor and the other 7 are almost inactive! It therefore becomes impossible to use Kontakt and I have to switch to stereo instances. This happens for all multi-instruments not just Kontakt.
I have just purchased Kontakt 4, I am upgrading to OSX 10.6 (Snow Leopard) and am updating Logic to v9.1. (From v9.0) Will this help at all? Is there an answer to this problem or will I just have to open 30 stereo and mono instances of Kontakt to continue working!
I have included a link to a ZIP file with two photos of the problem. In the photo named MASSIVE. I have one instance of massive running as a stereo instrument. It is sent to a BUS where I applied the WAVES L316 Limiter. I did this multiple times and if you can see on the system performance (Top right) Logic is sharing the workload over the processors as it should.
In the second picture named KONTAKT MULTI - I have done the same thing, but I have opened Kontakt as a multi instrument, sent a kick drum to AUX 2 and then forwarded this to a send where I applied the same WAVES L316. You can see on the system performance meter (Top Right) that Logic now does not re-distribute the workload, it is using one core and anymore plug ins applied to the AUX or bus channels relating to Kontakt will now make it core audio over load, even though now I am using far less processing.
PHOTOS: http://www.sendspace.com/file/og8a94

Ditto
Using Pro 8 Studio, I had this problem after installing Snow Leopard.
Invested £159 in Pro 9 update, same problem.
This has stopped most of my work since my external WK4 sounds are superior to the included software sounds.
As suggested, will now report since since it obviously seems to be a general problem.

Multi Instruments??

i have a multi instrument set up (NI Battery 3), i have activated 4 stereo channels and 16 mono channels in the battery plugin, but when i go to my aux channel there are only ever 10 battery inputs to choose from? there should be 24 (4x stereo + 16x mono = 24)??
Message was edited by: stilts
Message was edited by: stilts

When you say "multi-instrument" do you mean Logic's environment object called "multi-instrument", or do you mean using a software instrument multitimbrally (up to 16 individual parts within one instrument playing on different MIDI channels).
If the latter, it depends on the plugin. Generally, using 1 instance to play 16 parts uses less RAM than 16 instances to play one part each, but the CPU load will be roughly the same (because it's still playing the same number of voices).
It depends on the instrument though, and the optimisations used. Why don't you try it out and do your own tests as to the resources required for whichever instruments you're using?

CPU Overload (-10010) with Logic 9.0.2 and SL 10.6.2 after clean install

Whether using the demo song (Numbers Game), or a new song even with just a couple of instruments (EXS) and a single audio track I get a CPU overload -10010 or -1009 message sometimes every few seconds, sometimes every 30 minutes.
I thought perhaps a conflict with drivers or other software, so I have tried a clean install of SL10.6, updated to 10.6.2, loaded Logic Pro, updated to 9.0.2, and added NO OTHER SOFTWARE AT ALL, and used internal audio, still same problem.
This seems to be a bug in Logic or SL. What can I do?
Message was edited by: ebjornard

This is no bug, your system is telling you that it cannot handle the full load of this song. Try Freezing tracks with heavy CPU-using plugins on them.
Also, check (and bookmark!) these docs:
http://support.apple.com/kb/TA24535?viewlocale=en_US
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3161
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2375
and especially:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2175192&tstart=0

Using kontakt multi instrument in logic express

hi folks,
i am trying to load several instruments into a multi instrument in kontakt2. the documentation says that it is possible to use this to trigger each instrument from a different midi channel. i seem not being able to figure this out. the book "logic6 power" even mentions that you can assign regions to specific midi channels but it does not explain how.
basically, i would like to be able to switch between pre-loaded sounds within one track instead of having all of them sound like stacked.
can anybody help?

not quite sure what exactly did the trick, generating the multiinstrument in the environment and cabling it to the audio fader strip thingy in the mixer... but it works now. i guess it was crucial to come to the conclusion that a different midi channel on the masterkeyboard has to be chosen in order to get a different instrument to sound rather than trying to find a way to set the instrument somewhere in the track or in the region.
i guess, simply by talking about it the soution started the dawn on the horizon...
thanks!

Anyone have a Multi Instrument setup for the MO6?

I just got a MO6 workstation to integrate into my studio
setup. I was wondering if anyone has this keyboard
(or the MO8) and has a Multi instrument for it setup
in the enviroment. I am trying to not have to input
all the names of all 16 instrument banks. I tried
doing an Google and forum search with no luck.
The thing is impressive sound wise and will be
easier to edit with the free software available.
Only wish Apple would get their support online.
Yamaha did thier end with the remote control
feature. I can put it into Remote control with
one touch and start controlling Logic from the
keyboard. Every button has a dual role, one for
the workstation and one for Logic. Very cool feature.
Thanks in advance, Phil
http://static.flickr.com/67/160620209_6397f36fd1.jpg?v=0

Sorry, I only have the original Motif 6 environment,
but I wanted to ask you how you like the MO6?
Have you used the original Motif at all? I'm thinking
about saving up to get a MO8 because of the weighted
keys, and having the ES sounds only helps.
Thanks for posting,
I have not used the original Motif at all but am loving the MO6!
I am primarily a guitar player but since getting this board my inner
keyboard self is coming out. Sound On Sound has a review of
the MO6 in Junes issue. I recieved my copy a week after purchasing
the MO6 and was glad to see their positive review.
I would recommend the MO8 for the tone generator alone and as SOS put it,
you got to love that arpegiator! Everything else to me is icing.
I will have to check out the Motifator web site. That is probably my best
chance at getting the enviroment for the MO6. Thanks again for taking
the time to post.

Best way to add delay line and arpeggiator to multi instrument?

I am using logic sequencer to drive external hardware, and have been making use of the arpeggiator and delay line objects in the environment.
Apparently they have to be set up in loop cabling? Where the delay line runs into the multi instrument, which then in turn runs back into the delay line?
If I set it up just like this, the delayed note is then fed back into the signal and feeds the delay line again so that an infinite delay is created, even if I have repeat only set to 1.
I put the transformer in and if the note is of the original velocity it is sent to the delay line, all other velocities are brought down by -1 and those notes are sent just to drive the external equipment, not back into the delay line itself.
My question is is this the simplest way for this configuration? Or is there a simpler way that I'm overlooking? If there is a simpler way my guess is it probably lies in the parameters of the transformer because I am somewhat unfamiliar with it.
Thank you for your help.

Hey thanks. I mean, this way actually works, which I am an enthusiastic about, because it took me awhile to figure it out, I am just thinking there might be a simpler way.
Maybe I can try to explain a little bit more detail. I have an external sampler that can receive on 8 individual midi channels. Let's say I have a bass line sample on Midi Channel 1, and a Snare sample on Midi Channel 2, and I want to use the delay line to delay only the snare sample.
I run the delay line into Instrument Track 2 in the environment. At this point, there would be no delay. Not until I run the multi instrument back into the delay line. (I suppose this makes sense, because the multi instrument would need to be in the signal path). Then, however, the note that is delayed is fed back into the delay line as well (the delayed note of the snare), and it in turn feeds the delay line again, and an infinite loop is created.
If I put a transformer in there so that top condition is true the note at the original velocity is fed into the delay line (The original snare hit on beat 2 let's say). Then the delay line subtracts from the velocity by -1 or any number. (In reality this may or may not effect the sound, because the sound in the sampler may or may not respond to velocity. I can always have it play 'full on' whatever the velocity of the midi note.)
Then all notes with subtracted velocities bypass the delay line, which should be the case, because they are never meant to be fed back into the delay line.
That is a lot, I know, but I wanted to be as detailed as possible. I mean, it actually works! I am kind of surprised about that. I don't know if there is an easier way to achieve the same results. I am working with limited hardware equipment, and that seems to be the best way for me to set things up as far as synchronization issues are concerned. Might be an unusual set up, but it seems to give me the best results right now.
Thanks for your help! All input is appreciated!

Multi instrument help?

Does any one have or know how to setup my enviroment so i can use my JV1080 and Proteus 2000 at the same time, because at the moment i can only use one, as all my tracks will only play midi1 or midi2 , not together.
Or if anyone has a enviroment already setup like this can they send it to me thanks

I guess we would need to know if you are new to Logic, MIDI, or both...you should have each on their own ports on the MIDI interface if you want to access them each in multichannel modes. If I remember correctly P2K has 32 channels-so you'd need 3 ports if you really needed to access 32 from proteus and 16 from JV. Roland is weird-you should just leave that in performance mode when working with it as a multi instrument. Most likely with proteus, too. So, you'd want each on their own port-then you create a Multi instrument in the environment for each instrument (2 for the Porteus if it supports 32 channels. Then you'd simply assign the port in the paramater field on the left for the each selected device. Ensure the Channels you want ot access do not have a strike through them. In the arrange these will become available as MIDI instrument tracks including each channel you've enabled. Then you simply select the channel you wish to work with. If you use these modules sparingly you may want to check in to using then as Audio Instrument Inserts. Setting Up Logic is really akward to new users. Before you do all this, ensure that everything in your AudioMIDI setup is correct.

Multi Instruments Separate Outputs Confusion...

Hi. I am using a korg multi instrument with up to 8 channels. When i have 8 channels going at the same time, each one can be assigned to a stereo out so that an aux can pick up the signal and separate mixing/processing is possible. There is the option of output 1-2, 3-4, 5-6, 7-8, 9-10, 11-12, 13-14, 15-16. When i create an aux and looki for the instruments input there is only 3-4 onwards. How do i create a aux channel that can pick up 1-2?? This means that i have to send the first channel out of 3-4 and i loose one channel because an aux is incapale of picking up 1-2. This is a similar issue in other multi channel plugins. Can somone please enlighten me to what could be wrong and a possible solution? Thankyou

I had similar trouble at first.
I do this
- create the aux channels in environment.
- drag the instrument out to an empty space
- line up the AUXs next to the instrument
- I Keep the environment open on a second display so i've got instant visual access.
I've setup a default project to create 4 of these instruments. My busses & outputs are all grouped too.
I like to see the whole instrument as one in the environment. My environment usually looks somewhat like the arrange window with all the layers once i'm done.

Clicking on the plus button in the environment multi-intruments

Clicking on the plus button in the environment multi-intruments creates aux in unpredictable places..
This is very annoying, because every way I create an aux strip I have to go around environment to search it, and if you have many many object (as I have) you can waste some time to find it...
It would be better if any created aux appeared near the main instrument...
Would it be so difficult for programmers?

>
Tim Simon wrote:
> Which type of report is this? A Crystal Report (not sure what your question means)
>
There are some big differences if using say a webi report.
I just tested on XIR2 SP4 and back forward worked fine with CR drilldown, using the sample reports.
Could be a report design issue or something wrong with your deployment, maybe even a browser setting (not sure as I don't work reporting issues too often).
You can wait to see if someone else has run into this or open a message with support to have an engineer take a look.
Regards,
Tim

Editing parameters of multi-instrument

Hey-
I have a multi instrument, and I would like to edit the parameters of one of the sub channels (I want to change the range). When I attempt to do this in the environment, nothing happens. I change the range, but everything still sounds the same. What did I forget to do?

Like G2-G6, so the sub channel only sounds in that range.

CPU Overloads: What to try?

I know this is a tired subject but considering that it doesn't seem the CPU overload and application instability can be solved in the current version of Logic, just wondering if anyone has a good work around.
Basically, I find that while using 3rd party plugins (i.e. Kontakt 2, Omnisphere), I can get about 8 or 9 tracks before I begin to have routine application crashes, overload message, etc. Freezing does not change this (and the activity monitor shows a massive jump in real memory from 2.0 gigs to 16TB with the addition of a 9th track depending on the size of the instruments i'm using). This also has nothing to do with buffer size.
I realize that Logic has limitations in the collective size of the plugins that can be loaded (up to 2.7 gigs of 3rd party plugins) so I'm wondering if I wanted to at least double the number of soft synth instruments I can load up what could I do? I've heard some people add more hardware like another Mac or something like Muse receptor which can load your plugins through logic but doesn't tap into Logic resources. Not sure how this works though, or if there's a better idea out there.
Any heavy soft synth users out there?

and the activity monitor shows a massive jump in real memory from 2.0 gigs to 16TB
It's a known issue with Kontakt that it can only handle 2 Gigs, adjust the DFD settings and reduce the number of voices to 128 (12MB) that will free up quite a lot of RAM. Also you can open a standalone version of Kontakt and wire it via the IAC Bus giving you another 2 Gigs if you have enough RAM installed. With Kontakt update 3.5 the 2 Giga limit will be gone but that doesn't help so much as Logic will still be a 32 Bit application in which the limit still is about 2,7 Gigs of physical and 3,5 Gigs of virtual RAM.
Besides that enter the word "overload" in the search field of this Forum and you will get thousands of posts about that tiring topic...

Environment Multi-Instrument = CPU Overload

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