ERD - i'm not sure i understand

i'm looking at a simple model in Bachman notation. and i'm not sure how is the optionality on the parent in 1:N relation is translated into Relational diagram.
Example:
drop 2 entities A and B. create to attributes marking them PK .
drop 1:N, mark parent optional and child mandatory.
generate relational.
go back to logical, mark parent end as mandatory. engineer to relational - i can't find any changes...
It seems that optionality on the parent's end has no effect on the generated relational diagram or ddl scripts.
I also not clear why "identified" can't have optional "target".
Here is an example :http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=31475&seqNum=4 ( see image 1.20)
*/ - i understood this part of the question :)
Please advise.
Andrew
Edited by: andrey on Aug 11, 2009 11:46 AM
Edited by: andrey on Aug 11, 2009 12:14 PM
Edited by: andrey on Aug 13, 2009 7:25 AM

Philip,
the more i'm "playing" with "identifying" and "dominant role" the more i'm convinced that they are broken.
Here is another example:
2 entities, each has a PK.
drop 1:1 between them. Make it "mand" on both ends - it correctly puts PKs from each of the entities to the opposite entity as FK.
Select "Dominant role" -> entity 2 . It updates correctly by removing the FK from the entity 1.
Now, a side note - i think i already said that application doesn't update the data type in the FK if i change it in the PK. I have to click on the attribute and update it manually.
Another annoyance that i came across - i have to manually go over changes in the "engineer" dialog and confirm that they should be propagated - it's ok if i make a few, but if i'm doing a lot of them? -very inconvenient.
The functionality of "apply" button - remains the mystery to me....
All right now i'm looking @ the relational diagram - the notation shows 1:N. Well, that's "interesting". Didn't i just say 1:1 (mand) in ER?
Back to ER: relation is changed to 1:1, dominant - none, on child's end - optional. engineer to rel. Come back switch optional to mand on child's end - engineer - no changes in relational...
I think the DDL should include the unique index to support this...
Also, if you leave dominant selected ( say entity_1) and then change the optionality/cardinality in such a way that it will disallow you to select the dominant role - the relational diagram still takes into account the selection made in the dominant role.
I spent about 4 days playing with this dialog alone. I'm very frustrated with inconsistencies and the amount of bugs. i don't think that this build can and should be called "Release".
For sure, I won't recommend this product for purchase, which is an unfortunate conclusion, since i grew to like the simplicity and how straightforward ( comparing to ERWIN) you architecture things.
I hope that either help will be updated to explain all intricacies ( i may not have a good and clear understanding of how you architect things ) or the bug fixes rolled out ASAP.
I probably missed the url to the site with the changelog....
I would like to see development cycle to be made shorter...
I encourage your PM to communicate to your project sponsor the immediate need for the actual testers. Using end-users in this role - won't get this project far.
I hope i didn't offend dev team and you, Philip - you have been very helpful with your answers in this and all other questions that i had.
Sincerely,
Andrew
P.S. As for optionality on the paren'ts end - i think that it maybe implemented by use of the triggers. The dialog ( definition of relation ) has to be extended to allow the selection of update/delete functionality. Yes, i understand we can argue this, but in my experience - once i defined the relation in logical, i proceed to clarify all aspects of the behavior of the relation. Leaving it to "later" seems like a logical approach, but in practice - not a good idea.
P.P.S The forward engineer of the supertype/subtype - i failed to notice the strategy selection - do i want to rollup, roll down or "leave it as is ". I might missed it though.
Edited by: andrey on Aug 16, 2009 9:14 AM

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    lisab101,
    We appreciate you reaching out to us. We greatly appreciate the feedback that you have provided us. Please know that we will lift this up to management and the issues will be addressed.
    Thank you,
    RobinD_VZW
    Follow us on twitter @VZWSupport

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