External Drive Speed - Thunderbolt vs Firewire 800?

Hi Friends,
I'm looking to upgrade my external firewire 800 enclosure/drives to speed up editing/rendering in FCP 7/X. Currently this is the config I'm using with my MBP:
- Vantech Nexstar dual 3.5" sata external hard drive enclosure ( http://www.vantecusa.com/en/product/view_detail/277 )
- 2 x 1.5TB Seagate Barracudda 3.5" Sata 7200rpm hard drives (http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Barracuda-7200RPM-Internal-ST31500341AS-Bare/dp/B0 0066IJPQ)
I'm interested in upgrading to an external thunderbolt enclosure like this:
- Pegasus J4 2.5" quad sata3 external thunderbolt hard drive enclosure ( http://www2.promise.com/storage/raid_series.aspx?region=en-global&m=192&rsn1=40& rsn3=62 )
- 4 x Seagate Momentus XT 2.5" sata3 7200rpm hard drives ( http://www.seagate.com/internal-hard-drives/laptop-hard-drives/momentus-laptop/ )
I know I could get better drives, i.e. hybrid hdd/ssd, or just ssd, but that's not in the budget right now.
Can anyone tell me if the thunderbolt enclosure with 4 x 2.5" sata3 drives will read/write much faster than the firewire 800 enclosure with 2 x 3.5" drives?
Thanks in advance !
- Cindy

Hi Meg,
I may have given the wrong Vantech link, since the Vantech Nextstar I'm currently using has FW and USB, thanks!
Meantime I'm waiting to hear back AGAIN from the Pegasus manufacturer - ends up I've found a number of reviews stating the Pegasus J4 is plenty fast for FCP use!
- Cindy

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Hard Drive Speed Difference Between FireWire 800 and Internal Drive

Right now I have my entire 1.5 TB Lightroom photo library on an external drive connected to my new Mac Pro via FireWire 800. Will I experience dramatic or even noticeable speed improvements if I move this drive to one of the internal SATA hard drive bays in my Mac Pro?
I would likely buy a new drive and SuperDuper the external to this new drive I put in the Mac Pro.
Thanks,
Matt

SATA II 3Gb is only the controller bus and has almost nothing to do with actual individual drive speed. Confusing the bus interface with hard drive speeds is not a clear way to compare.
Just pull the drive out of the FW case is all you probably need to do. Actual FW800 is less than 80MB/sec and more like 72-75MB/sec - which is as slow as your hdd gets from slow inner tracks.
Other than green, most 1.5TB drives average minimum 75MB/sec to max 115 with average in mid-90s. And the first 1/2 of a drive is where best performance comes from.
The size of the data and media library, amont of free space, all play a role.
I think FW should be left to backups, an alternate boot volume, off line data.
If it was Aperture library, but otherwise SSD is not realistic or viable. Nobody uses RAM disks as they are inefficient.
I still find 10K VelociRaptor ($279 / 600GB) fast, smoother, more responsive, great for system and data drives, even if they are only 135MB/sec, or about what some of your 2TB drives can offer.
QUICK TAKES - A striped pair of Velociraptor 600G 10K HDDs matches the speed of one SSD. For less that the price of one 256G SSD, you can buy two 10K 600G Velociraptor HDDs. If you stripe them (RAID 0), you get the same sustained transfer speed as the SSD. http://www.barefeats.com/quick.html
If you are not already using all the internal drive bays, just nice to have them handy before going external. Also take a look at two other articles on Barefeats:
THINK INSIDE THE BOX: Internal Storage Innovations for the Mac ProOctober 6th, 2010
EXTERNAL STORAGE INNOVATIONS for Mac Pros -- (Added results for ATTO R680 SAS RAID adapter.)

Thunderbolt to Firewire 800 external drive problems

I recently upgraded from a MacBook Pro 17" early 2011 to a MacBook Pro Retina 15" (early 2013). I have a Drobo and two Seagate 4TB external drives, all connected via Firewire 800. So, I added a Thunderbolt to Firewire 800 adapter and, it seemed, life was good.
I keep my large iTunes Movie and TV show collection on the Drobo. Since transitioning to the new MacBook, I have had a number of issue with watching movies on my Apple TV 3. Randomly, and periodically, the movie appears to be corrupted - the audio track skips/loops and the image is horrible macroblocked, as if the file is damaged. When I check the movies on the Drobo, opening it with Quicktime on the MBP, it plays just fine at the same spot it appeared damaged on the Apple TV 3.
A second symptom is this: I can no longer re-encode video with Handbrake with the source and target files on the Drobo - it gets some portion of the way through and it just stops, leaving the video partially encoded; again, at random locations/offsets into the video and not the same spot twice.
My initial thought is that connection to the Drobo is dropping out and coming back, on its own, but long enough to cause the above problems.
Is anyone else seeing this issue or something related when using the Thunderbolt to Firewire 800 adapter with large drives?
Thanks, in advance.

Update: I exchanged the Thunderbolt to Firewire adapter and the issue persists. I have a Drobo that I used with my previous system, a PowerMac G5, and never had any issues like this.
It does not matter what software I use. But at some point video playback will suddenly become garbled. If I start the video from the beginning, sometimes the garbled video will start sooner but never later. A restart temporarily resolves the issue. If I copy the file to the local hard drive the video will play back garbled. This is indeed a very strange issue. The issue behaves like a bandwidth bottleneck.
I was having this issue prior to upgrading to Mavericks.
Fred K
iMac (Late 2012), 3.4 GHz i7, GTX 680MX, Fusion Drive, 24 GB RAM, Drobo (Firewire via Thunderbolt)

I currently have a MAC Mini, which has 1 Firewire 800 port. I have a 1TB external hard disk that runs at Firewire 400. Can I insert another external hard drive that runs at Firewire 800?

Here's the deal. Currently running SL 10.6.8 on a MAC Mini. Planning for eventual upgrade to ML. Have a 1TB external hard drive partitioned into two volumes, one volume for Time Machine and one volume for SL which I periodically update using Superduper. Thus I always have a point-in-time bootable backup on the external hard drive.
The MAC Mini supports Firewire 800. However, booting from my current external hard disk is pretty slow, since it only supports Firewire 400. I am considering buying an Iomega MiniMax which supports Firewire 800. Then, I would use the MiniMax as my bootable backup volume, and relegate the older hard drive to Time Machine.
So, question #1 is, can I daisychain the new MiniMax between the MAC Mini and my existing external hard drive? My expectation is that the new Mini Max would run using Firewire 800 and that the existing hard drive would run at Firewire 400 speed as it does today. If it doesn't (e.g., daisychaining in the Firewire 400 external disk with the MiniMax Firewire 800 external disk ends up running the whole leg at 400), my resolution will be to run the existing hard disk off an available USB port and have just the MiniMax running at Firewire 800.
Why am I going to all this trouble? That's question #2. I don't trust upgrades; they always break something. When I upgraded from 10.5.x to 10.6.x, the web directories got renamed, and all of my web apps 403'd until I figured out what happened. Plus, I have accounts for other family members, and in order to ensure their ability to use the computer during my upgrade process, I need to have the ability to fall-back quickly to a known-stable version of OSX. So what I'm trying to do is insulate myself from problems by partitioning the MiniMax into two volumes, taking a Superduper image of my current installation on the Mac Mini to MiniMax external drive volume 1, then upgrading to ML on the MAC Mini, and take a SuperDuper image of that to MiniMax external drive volume 2. Then, if the upgrade results in problems I can't resolve immediately, I can simply reimage the MAC Mini from MiniMax volume 1. BUT ...
... I've read that the ML installation creates a "service and support" partition that is different than the startup disk. I'm concerned that I won't be able to reimage the hard disk in the MAC Mini once I upgrade it to ML because of the partitioning changes it introduces on the startup disk. Theoretically, I +should+ be able to use the disk utility on my SL system to repartition the disk in the MAC Mini prior to reimaging it from my backup, but I'm considering the possibility that the new partition may be of a type that the SL disk utility cannot identify, and might therefore be unable to delete or even detect. So I'm hoping someone else has been down this road and can advise me. Even at Firewire 800 speeds, booting from an external disk is still going to be slow, so I want to be able to restore my SL image to the MAC Mini hard disk.
A little background on me. I work for a major disaster recovery provider. I used to have a Mac PRO G5, which I got used, and the first thing I did with it was install a second hard disk, SuperDupe an image from the first disk to the second, and made sure I could boot from the second. THEN I started using and customizing the MAC. I really feel vulnerable with the MAC Mini, since it only has the single internal hard drive - sort of like going out in public dressed only in a long T-shirt. So my whole thing is, I ABSOLUTELY MUST BE ABLE TO PUT THINGS BACK THE WAY THEY WERE before I do the migration to ML.
Obsessive-cumpulsive? Yep. Anal? You got it. That's why I'm in the DR business.

You may have overloaded the port, following the instructions below it should reset:
+1. Shut down the computer.+
+2. Disconnect all devices and all other cables, except the keyboard and mouse cable(s).+
+3. Disconnect the computer from the power outlet and wait for 3 to 5 minutes.+
+4. Plug the computer back in and turn it on.+
+5. Reconnect the device(s) (one at a time if there is more than one) and test. Test with each port if you have more than one.+
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1317?viewlocale=en_US

Thunderbolt and FireWire 800 / 400

Hey gang!
I have a 2011 MacMini and a theoretical question. I have a FW800 external drive connected to it for my TimeMachine backup. I also have a FW400 audio capture box I use from time to time.
I used to chain the drive and audio device, but that slows the FW chain to 400 speeds instead of 800. If I connect the FW800 drive directly to the Mac mini, and the FW400 audio capture box to the Mac min via the Thunderbolt-to-FW800 adaptor(via a small 800-to-400 converter plug), will that slow the whole bus down to 400, or will they work at independent speeds?
I assume the Thunderbolt and FW chips are indepent and that the would NOT slow down speeds, but I would like to hear a more technical answer to my question.
Thank you in advance.

Apple sells a Thunderbolt to Firewire 800 cable here. Connect directly to your external drive with this cable, and the FW400 audio capture box (with adapter) to the Mini's FW800 port.

Thunderbolt to Firewire 800 Adapter

I have a 2010 MacMini that I want to add the Pegasus Tech J4 RAID Drive to. It is Thunderbolt only. Does anyone make a Thunderbolt to FireWire 800 adapter? I know Apple makes the reverse, FireWire 800 to Thunderbolt.
Thanks for the help.

All Thunderbolt adapters are only from computer to
peripheral. There is no adapter that works in the
opposite direction.
Therefore, if you want to use the Pegasus Thunderbolt
device, you need a computer with a Thunderbolt port.

Thunderbolt to Firewire 800 adapter not enough power

Warning to those who own G-Technology G-Raid Mini (Gen3) and a Macbook Pro Retina.
I just received my thunderbolt to firewire 800 adapter from apple yesterday. I hooked it up to the rMBP and plugged in my G-Raid Mini, the G-Raid Mini powers up, but then proceeds to make a beeping noise. The G-Raid Mini will not mount over bus-power thunderbolt to firewire 800 adapter. Although when I plug the G-Raid Mini into wall with power supply and then plug in the thunderbolt to firewire 800 adapter, the drive mounts.
It seems there is not enough thunderbolt bus power to mount a G-Raid Mini (Gen3)...
Has anyone heard otherwise? Can they confirm this doesn't work for them either.
Thanks.

Same for me.
Luckily I tested it is advance of playing a gig at the weekend using Serato.
Complete JOKE!
I can't believe that Apple hasn't considered the fact that the majority of creative professionals need high capacity fast mobile storage.
I suppose we now need to wait for 2Tb Thunderboth enabled SSD drives which by my reckoning will cost more than the MacBook Pro!!!!

Thunderbolt to Firewire 800 Adaptors... any available?

Hi all,
I'm probably going to buy a 15" Mac Book Pro whenever they are released later this year and have a strong suspicion that Apple will drop the Firewire 800 port in favour of Thunderbolt. I guess this really comes as no surprise but hopefully I'm wrong and they keep it. Anyway, in the event that they do remove it I'd still like to be able to keep using my external FW800 HDD so was wondering if any cheap adaptors are on the market yet? I've looked around but can't seem to find anything. Anyone care to enlighten me?
Thanks in advance.

The adaptor from Sonnet is for an Express34 card and it does not read SXS cards for Sony cameras!
I do not find a Thunderbolt to FireWire 800 on the Sonnet website. Found this, however, but it won't be released until this summer:
http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/09/belkin-details-thunderbolt-express-dock/
It seems that Belkin will have the solution for all USB and FireWire devices that you will want to connect with the new 15" MacBook Pro coming out, supposedly at the end of April:
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/11861907-2012-macbook-pro-redesign-on- its-way-to-apple-stores
I'm in the same boat as you, so hopefully this helps.

The Thunderbolt to Firewire 800 cable?

I have a JVC digital video camera, and have lost some of the cables. Will a Thunderbolt to Firewire 800 cable connected with a Firewire 800 - Firewire 400 cable (same as ieee1394?) transfer the videos to my MacBook Air?

The Thunderbolt to FW 800 cable provides a FW800 port that you can plug into. You can see what it looks like here. If you have a FW cable that will connect to your camera and terminates in a FW800 plug, that should work.

Thunderbolt to FireWire 800

Hey,
Just wondering - where is the Thunderbolt to FireWire 800 adapter? Apple promised it by the end of July. I cant find any news.
This is a big determining factor in whether or not to return my MBPR.
Thanks!

Look at the column to the right - "More Like This" - there have been a number of discussions as to when the adapter will be released. Some confilicting information, but I would expect it within any time between this week and sometime in September: I don't think that anyone here really knows for certain.
Sorry,
Clinton

External drive not connecting via firewire thunderbolt

I have a iMac at home and at work. This external drive connected via a thunderbolt/firewire adapter yesterday on my work iMac. When I try to connect on my home iMac it does not work. This drive is powered by the cable and I read that that is a problem but my trouble is that it did work on my work iMac yesterday but will not work on my home iMac today. I am using different adapters, is that the trouble? These macs are the same machine, one has more storage but otherwise the same.

I was thinking it might be an issue with the drive needing too much bus power. On the newer iMacs, USB provides higher bus power than FireWire. That might still be the issue, even if the drives supply their own power.
Just one Firewire port on my iMac.
I think it has two, but one is FireWire 400 and one is FireWire 800. So you only have one device plugged into those two ports?

Bootcamp Win8, not recognize Firewire external drive VIA Thunderbolt.

Hi.
I am using Boot Camp Windows 8. I have an external drive (firewire) which I have connected to my thunderbolt display. The thunderbolt display is connected to my rMBP. I am unable to see my external drive. Could someone please offer me some assistance?
Thank you.

yves-k wrote:
You cannot use external drives to install windows using bootcamp on them as your mac won't let windows boot on an external drive sry...
Windows does not boot from an external drive, doesn't matter whether it's a Mac or a PC.

Thunderbolt to firewire 800 coverter vs. usb 2.0

Have an external hard drive that has firewire 800 and USB 2.0. Trying to decide if the firewire 800 to thunderbolt adapter or using the straight usb is the better connection. Drive holds my iTunes Library and VM Fusion "drive".
Any ideas?

Since Thunderbolt is so much faster then FW800, you should be able to see as good a performance on FW800 as the disk drive is able to provide. The drive itself is going to be the weak link in your chain.
Allan

External Drive not working with Firewire connection

I just purchased a Western Digital My Book external drive. My Mac recognizes it when I use a USB cable but not a Firewire. I have downloaded all the WD updates and firmware.
Any suggestions?
Thanks

I was thinking it might be an issue with the drive needing too much bus power. On the newer iMacs, USB provides higher bus power than FireWire. That might still be the issue, even if the drives supply their own power.
Just one Firewire port on my iMac.
I think it has two, but one is FireWire 400 and one is FireWire 800. So you only have one device plugged into those two ports?

I am using IMovie 11 with a new iMac. Unable to import video from a Panasonic PV-GS400 mini-DV camcorder using a Firewire IEEE 1394 400 cable connected to a Firewire 400 to 800 adapter which is then connected to a Thunderbolt to Firewire 800 adapter.

How can I get iMovie to recognize my Panasonic PV-GS400 as a device so I can import video to my iMac? I have a FireWire IEEE 1394 400 cable connected to the camcorder. Since my new iMac has only Thunderbolt ports, I purchased a Firewire 400 to 800 adapter to connect to the cable. I also purchased a FireWire 800 to Thunderbolt adapter to connect to the computer. My camcarder is still not recognized.

I would suggest that you try a 9 pin to 4 pin Firewire Cable along with the Firewire to Thunderbolt adapter.
Those Firewire 400 to 800 adapters do not seem to work well with iMovie.
The 9 pin to 4 pin cables are available at reasonable prices here, for example.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=103&cp_id=10301&cs_id=1030104 &p_id=3541&seq=1&format=2

External Drive Speed - Thunderbolt vs Firewire 800?

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