External Midi and Delay compensation

is there a delay compensation for the external midi devices now???

This is a long standing issue. Although Apple has given us a bass amp and a couple of thousand apple loops, they have not fixed this basic and crippling issue.
I have written to Apple about it, I have talked about it with their tech support for years... In my opinion, not addressing such issues as sync between MIDI and audio leads me to question Apple's commitment to pro users. It is a real shame

Similar Messages

PDC & External Midi Device Delays

Hi All,
Got my head around the PDC - i think , but -- Logic states that :
' Another effect with delay compensation set to All is that MIDI tracks triggering external sound modules will be out of sync. This is because Logic has no direct control over the audio output of external devices. A possible solution for this would be to route the audio outputs from the external MIDI devices to inputs on your audio hardware and monitor them through Logic. This way, the audio streams from the MIDI devices can be compensated during playback. Using Logic's External instrument to route MIDI to your external devices is an ideal way to work in this situation. '
Question : So what would you do if all of your inputs were being used from other sources ( Hardwired / or even if you had only 2 ) or you did not have enough inputs to cater for simultaneous internal monitoring from your midi gear- ( phew big sentence ! ) but still need the ALL setting for PDC selected because of the induced latency from plugins . How can you compensate for the external midi delay in the new logic 7 if you cant monitor internally as they suggest ? This was not the case in version 6 and i am pretty worried my clients projects will all now play out of time ! Hope i explained correctly and you understand my question. Please dont say bounce them !!
Thanks and look foward to youre suggestions

Presumably, all you would need to do is have a stereo submix of your external MIDI gear coming up on a stereo input object (software monitoring on, obviously.)
The whole submix would therefore be PDC-delayed as necessary to match up with the rest of the audio, and you could bounce (real-time only of course) to include all your external instruments in one go.
What I do is have all external hardware coming up in a mixer (Mackie 1604-VLZ), so you could record individual channels of submixes back to the computer as necessary.
However, the best solution for most cases is to record your external MIDI gear as audio, which is what I do when I've finished editing, keeping the MIDI tracks just in case.
This is also handy as you can process with internal FX, automate and offline bounce, and don't need to worry about having all the hardware when you open up the song in a couple of years. (Although you should keep sysex dumps etc as well, obviously...)

Strange new problem with external effects and latency compensation

i'm currently facing a new , very strange problem with latency compensation for external effect devices. it alway worked fine for me but suddenly there are strange things going on. i'm suddenly running into problems when using sends which feed auxes going to external effect devices.
latency compensation is set to ALL !!!
easy setup :
- open an empty project and create 2 audioinstrument tracks. on the first one load the exs with a drumkit and record f.e. a bassdrum pattern. leave the 2. instrument empty.
- now on the first audio instrument create a send to bus 1 -> aux 1 and insert the i/o plug-in in the aux and route it to your external effect device. chose a temposynced delay.
- press play = everything is fine when audioinstrument 1 is highlighted in the arrange.
- press stop, click on the track with the 2. audioinstrument and press play = totaly weird timing problems. delay is only in sync when track 1 is highlighted.
- create a send in the 2. audioinstrument and route it to bus 1 -> aux 1 too = still the same problem
now insert ANY softwareinstrument in audioobject 2 and suddenly the timing for the delay is right.
go ahead and create a 3. audioinstrument track but leave it empty first. chose it in the arrange = again weird timing problems with the external delay.
insert any software instrument on audioinstrument 3 = still the same problem
now create the send to bus 1 -> aux 1 in audioinstrument 3 and guess what, timing is right.
*** is going on here ? can anyone reproduce that ?
it works fine when using sends which feed auxes with software effects inserted.
funny thing is, when i go to the environment and change aux object one to bus object 1 and insert the same i/o in it it works !!!
very very strange, please tell me i'm not crasy and this is a bug !!!
as said, latency compensation is set to all.
i'm using the mac pro 3.2 8-core running os 10.5.4, logic 8.0.2 and a motu pci-e audio system.
Message was edited by: Olaf Dieckmann

Welcome to the Discussions.
If you need it formatted FAT32, reformat it on your Mac. Use MS-DOS (FAT32) as the file system. If you don't need it for both PC and Mac, format it HFS+ and you'll be able to use the Retrospect Express software that came with it on your Mac.
John

Audio track from EXTERNAL midi

Hi,
Logic 9 doesn't seem to allow me to create an audio track from an External midi instrument. If I'm wrong, how do I accomplish the task?

Hi Spheric, and thanks for your input.
It seems that Logic 9 treats External midi and Internal midi differently. I brought this up at a One-to-One session and
1) we had to change Preferences/Audio/to "Slow (CPU saving) in order to Solo the external midi track, and
2) the track would not transfer to the Audio track that I set up, even at this slower CPU setting.
I've read other complaints about this on the Net - but with no answer yet.
I appreciate your getting back to me,
Paulie too

External Midi Plugin and Midi Output Delay

This one is fairly esoteric but has anyone run into the following problem or have a workaround?
I'm trying to incorporate the External midi plugin into my setup so I can use the new midi plugins, but I cannot correctly calibrate my system when using it. My calibration technique invoolves setting delay for each synth to the slowest of the bunch and then compensating for all in the Sync > All Midi Out > Delay preference. However, when you use the external midi plugin this control has no effect. Running the synths as standard midi does work but then you lose the option of using the new midi plugins.
If verified, does anyone know if this issue will be resolved in an update?
Thanks,
David

Pancenter,
Thanks for replying. I haven't had internet in a couple days and I'm back on now. Time Warner Cable is sometimes unstable around my area.
Logic:
I've been trying different things for the last couple days and nothing works.
I replayed and recorded a 4 bar piano part and made sure that the hits were as close to the grid as possible. It sounded fine on MIDI Recording. But on MIDI Playback Here's what I found: The Midi data is not misplaced, it's right where it should be. But the actual sound is delayed on playback.
I have a PreSonus Monitoring Station. The outputs of the Motif go straight into the Traveler (In 5-6). The Main outputs on the Traveler go into the PreSonus Monitoring Station as well as my KRK Monitors. I control the volume from the Monitor Station.
Software Monitoring and Independent Monitoring Level are both enabled.
I don't get it...Please help.

Logic Pro 10.1.0 update. automation and external midi tracks issues

Hi there,
After i i installed the update I am having some issues with transferring automation to region/track and viceversa + othe issues in creating GM external midi tracks...
anybody else experiencing the same?
Marco

Yes, that behavior is really odd indeed. Never experienced that and never heard of it.
There are two possibilities:
Something Corrupted
This is a long shot, but you never know when bits get tangled up somewhere and cause the weirdest things. As Nigel pointed out, start with the Preferences file.
Another step is to log in to a different user (if possible) and play around to see if you get the same behavior. If not, then it would point to a user file on your user directory, possibly corrupted. You wouldn't still know which one, but at least you narrowed it down and can keep on looking (and hopefully eliminating)
Pilot Error
As Nigel pointed out, there could be a combination how you do the editing which we don't see at the moment. Couple of things that come to mind
Aliases: This is only thing I can think of that "remotely" delete other Events, but you don't mention that you use Aliases (or do you?)
Are you doing the edits in the Piano Roll? If you have "Selected Region" selected in the Local View Menu (instead of the "One Track" option), then the following would be technically possible. Selecting Events in a Region and then going to a different Region keeps those Events selected. If you would go to the Piano Roll and and delete the visible Events, then technically some other Events form other (selected) Regions that are "out of side" but still selected could be deleted too. This is a little bit far fetched but technically possible.
Can you "Track Protect" the MIDI Tracks and only unprotect them when you are editing? This prohibits deleting of Events in those Region manually, and hopefully also those automatic deletion. I know this would be only a "band aid" solution, but if it works to avoid having notes deleted, it gives you time to search for the real culprit.
Hope that helps
Edgar Rothermich
http://DingDingMusic.com/Manuals/
'I may receive some form of compensation, financial or otherwise, from my recommendation or link.'

Alignment of external MIDI events and audio

Hi,
I've been doing some careful measurements of the timing of MIDI events under Logic 8.0.2. I record a lot of external MIDI hardware, so the timing of external MIDI events and its relation to recorded audio is very important to me.
My setup is OS X 10.5.5, Logic 8.0.2., all relevant patches and updates. I'm using an RME fireface 800 as both the audio and MIDI interface in these examples.
I've created a project in which there is no plug-in of any kind: neither instrument nor effect. Even the klopgeist is gone.
My preferences settings:
Audio/Devices:
buffer=1024 samples
sw monitoring=off
indep mon level=off
I/O safety buffer=off
Audio/General:
PDC=Off (I also measured with PDC=all, to verify that it has no effect)
low latency mode=off
I create an external MIDI track of quantized whole notes: C3, playing on the first tick of each bar. BPM is 120.
I then create another external MIDI track, cable MIDI OUT to MIDI IN on the Fireface, and record the first MIDI track onto the second (i.e., loopback test). The note data is right on the money; within one tick of the original values. I set PDC to all, repeat the test, same result.
I then cable MIDI out on the Fireface to a hardware synth, and call up a patch with a sharp attack. I route the audio output of the synth to an audio input of the Fireface. I create an audio track with this input selected, and record the output of the synth. The recorded audio is early by 20ms or so -- roughly equivalent to the buffer size.
I repeat the test with PDC set to All, same result. PDC has no effect, as you would expect, as there are no plug-ins in this project.
I then set Preferences/MIDI/Sync/All MIDI Output delay to 21ms. I repeat the audio recording test, and now the recorded events are on the money.
Here are my questions. First, am I doing something wrong, or does Logic have a fundamental bug concerning the linkage between MIDI timing and audio timing?
It seems clear to me that this timing error has nothing to do with PDC. There is no "P". Right?
I thought that the RME has timestamped MIDI. The RME manual speaks of very accurate MIDI timing, and I can verify that the MIDI jitter of the Fireface is indeed low, in the 1ms neighborhood. This is borne out by the MIDI loopback test I did above. But MIDI timestamps don't mean anything if they are not correlated to the time code of the audio, haha! What am I missing here?
If timestamping the MIDI data can't work for some reason, could this problem not be solved by having Logic automatically delay the transmission of external MIDI data by an amount equal to the audio buffer size? Put differently, my solution to this problem is to set a MIDI output delay in preferences equal to the audio buffer size, i.e., 21.3ms. And this seems to work. Is that a proper solution, and if so, why does Logic not do such a thing automatically?
Thanks,
-Luddy

OK, so I just retested and here is the best part... I recorded a loop from my drum machine, cut the first note nicely to the 1 on the first bar... using a count in etc.
I played it back and looped outs 3-4 back into 1-2 on my Ensemble. I also played back the same kick on my drum machine just to check this reverse latency issue. I was not concerned with hit for hit layering accuracy. What I got back astounds me!
The "loopback" recording was spot on to the original being played out... totally locked. BUT, the one that was midi clocked by Logic and play from my drum machine came in ahead of the 1??? How is this possible when I am hearing it when monitoring this recording and it is slightly behind? RIDICULOUS! What does this mean?
Logic is NOT recording what I am hearing, but rather recording some timewarped version of it in which it places events ahead of when they happened, but ONLY on midi clocked or midi sent notes!
I have lurked here a long time and I know that there is not much known here about this issue, so before anyone tells me the typical solution I will say as I did in my last post:
I have done a ton of tests like this, I also followed the loopback testing as described on Logicprohelp.com.
Yes I tried it with all PDC modes, SW monitoring on AND off.
I am truly beginning to think that this is a major bug of some sort.
Anyone else out there with hardware that reports latency to Logic (RME, Metric Halo, and Apogee stuff are ones I know that do this) experiencing this abberation?
thanks

Import midi and play to external midi

When I import a mid(i) file, it creates all the tracks and plays back through the system output. What I would like to do is play it to my USB attached external midi device.
I can do this by moving individually each track to a newly created External Midi type track but was hoping for an easier/faster way.

Stale

How to put External MIDI Device on REC and also REC audio sources?

Hi,
I'm new at Logic 8 and i'm having trouble urderstanding how to put an external MIDI device on Rec and still record other Audio tracks.
I created an External Midi device in the Environment and created a midi track and a audio track for the device, so far so good, it all plays well.
But when i try to record the device at the same time as other audio tracks the midi device records but the audio does not, and i can listen to the audio that is getting in but Logic doesn't record anything.
Another thing that i cant understand it why i can only trigger the rec on the external midi device if it is selected?
Regards,
Herculano

After enabling "record" (R) hold down shift and select all tracks you want to record to. You can either do this in the Arrange or in the Mixer section

Experiencing Delay Between Midi and Audio MOTU 828 Mk1

Hi everyone
Wondering if somebody can point me in the right direction. I'm using an Intel iMac running Leopard 10.5.8 and Logic 8. I just got hold of a MOTU 828 MkI and am experiencing a severe delay between midi and audio.
Clock source is set to internal in the 828 settings and sample rate is set at 44100, so that's all as it should be.
I'm at a loss has anybody got any ideas?
Many thanks.

Hi,
I assume MIDI is earlier than audio.
Do You have plugins in busses and or master outputs?. Try to disable them and see if that still happens.
Here I had issues with 9.01 that aren`t plugin related and had to reboot to solve it. I upgraded to 9.02 and didn`t see them again (yet.)
If you HAVE to have your plugins in the busses and master and still want to have your MIDI properly aligned... Well you´re asking too much, my friend. Write a polite letter to Apple telling them if they´re joking calling Pro to this app that can´t keep two basic features in sync. BTW: same happens with video (at leat in L8. Didn`t check 9 with that yet)
After that, breath deeply and use the input objects to route your midi instruments inside Logic. Then they´ll be in sync, but at the price of loosing all their analog warm. Weird, isn´t it?

Javax.sound.midi and external synths?

Since I don't have a USB-to-MIDI adapter (and I lost my MIDI cables long ago), I gotta just ask: if I had an external MIDI device connected to my computer, would javax.sound.midi.getMidiDeviceInfo() theoretically return a MidiDevice object describing it? Or is javax.sound.midi really just for the computer's own music synthesizer?
--Chris (invalidname)

see bug 4356787. MIDI for external devices is broken.
Add it to your bug parade votes. Let's get Sun to
address this.will do... not like they're going to fix my other favorite bug (4119391 - RMI in real-world networks)
Thanks.
--Chris

How do I use my external MIDI keyboard with Logic 7 and create MIDI data?

I have a Yamaha UX16 cord that goes from the MIDI IN & OUT of my keyboard to a USB jack to plug in my Mac. But I don't know how to set it up so I can record myself playing the keyboard via MIDI and then later switch the sound or instrument in the track.

Hi,
You need to set up your keyboard inside a utility ap. called Audio Midi Setup.
You find it here:
Applications / Utilities / Audio Midi Setup.app
Inside this application you should see your Yamaha UX16 as an interface with ports along the bottom of it. Create a new device and name it whatever your keyboard is named, and cable it to and from the Yamaha UX16.
If you do not see the Yamaha UX16, you need to install it's drivers. Consult your manual / the Yamaha website for details on this.
Once this is accomplished, you will then see the keyboard inside Logic, as a Midi input.
Dont' forget to read this document, to enlighten you as to how Logic works, as it is very different that Garageband:
http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/Logic1.0forGarageBandUsersIntro.pdf
Cheers

HELP! External MIDI is playing EARLY compared to the audio tracks!

Hi Guys
I have a project in L9 which has about 12 audio tracks, each running a few effects (fairly basic ones, nothing too heavy).
Tonight I am recording a rhythm part on an external MIDI device (my Kurzweil synth). I'm quantising this part to 1/8 notes, and in the piano roll editor, it's lining up perfectly after quantization.
However, when I play back the project, the MIDI is all EARLY!
I've tried soloing just the MIDI and the click, and the MIDI part runs uniformly early compared to the click track.
I believe this has something to do with the delay compensation that is in effect across all the audio channels... what's happening is that all the audio content is being delayed so all the tracks sync with each other. But for some reason, MIDI is not part of this delay compensation, and is playing in perfect time, and hence sounding early compared to the audio material.
I've done a test new project with just one MIDI track, and when quantized, it DOESN'T suffer this problem... ie, it aligns perfectly with the click track.
Is there any way to get external MIDI instruments to be part of the delay compensation process? Or is there some other solution to this issue?
Really desperate here as this has come out of the blue and I can't think of any way to solve it!
Thanks heaps guys,
Mike

yeloop wrote:
Is this something new for Logic 9?
I don't know, I have never used external MIDI with Logic (8 or 9) - but think it is new, yes.
I wonder if there's a way to set the global default for MIDI so that it always has delay compensation? I can't see why anyone would want to use an external MIDI device and not have it in perfect time with their audio material!
Yes, there is. You'll have to set it up in AMS first (choose *New Device*, and then configure the device and cable it) In Logic, you'll have to go into the Environment. You need a *Standard Instrument Object* for a monotimbral device, a, *Multi-Instrument Object* for multitimbral devices and a *Mapped Instrument object* for Drummodules. Explanation starts on pg 1082 of the LP9 pdf manual.
Once it is all setup, you can make a template of it, or you can import the Environment layer into new projects.
regards, Erik.
regards, Erik.

External Midi Events Playing Too Early

Hi there. Got a bit of an issue with midi timing under Logic 8, I run an Emagic AMT8 and a MTP AV as my midi interfaces but I'm noticing the midi events are playing before audio events, ie if I've got a bassline running on an plugin instrument, copy it to an external midi track and trigger a midi synth the synth is playing back earlier than plugin by about -120 ticks or whatever the delay compensation unit is in the inspector. This is global across all midi ports. I've got full plugin delay compensation turned on for the audio, my buffer is 512 (I use 2 UAD cards and thats the recommended setting)
I've hunted high and low through the manuals but can't find any parameter or reason why this would globally apply across all external midi ports, any suggestions greatfully appreciated as its driving me nuts.

Well Logic's Plug In Delay Compensation only works for the native Plug Ins not for external Midi stuff so the best thing to do is to record your external Midi as Audio data and align it with the rest of the music otherwise you'll get grey hair trying to find the correct delay offset to sync your external Midi.

External MIDI recorded as Audio is early

Why is it when I record MIDI data sent from Logic 8.02 to an external synth module and recorded back to Logic as audio is the audio earlier in time than the MIDI?
I played with various delay comp settings and this didn't seem to help.
Many thanks!
Alan Hayes

I have a new Apple dual quad core 2.8Ghz Mac,10 GB RAM, 2TB HD,Apogee Ensemble, Emagic Unitor 8 MKII(USB),Logic Pro 8.02,OSX.5.4.
I am not trying to slave a drum machine or anything else with a clock or any sync messages at all, I am just simply playing back a MIDI sequence from within Logic routed to an external MIDI synth module and recording it back into Logic as audio.
The audio recording is earlier than the MIDI Logic sent out.
This happens with all the MIDI external synths and drum machines I have treid not just this particular unit.
I played with buffer settings, no difference,I turned on and off plugin delay compensation,no difference,BTW this is with a brand new song not made from any template, only one audio track and only one MIDI track, I played with recording delay and got close with a delay of 118 and the audio on beat 1 would be late then on 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10.......it would be early, then on bar 25,26 it was right on time and then it started to get later for every consecutive beat.
Since Apple removed the ability to sync to an external MIDI clock in version 8, now I have to send my clients a MIDI clock and record their data and send it back via MIDI to their workstations or drum machines and now it won't record in time?
I have worked with Logic since ATARI 1040STe back in the late 80s and it was always rock solid in the realm of MIDI from whence it came.
Is there a solution to this I have overlooked?

External Midi and Delay compensation

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