Extreme and Express help... can't seem to co-exist?

Hey guys and gals. I'm having a bit of a problem with my AirPort Extreme and Express and need your help/recommendations. Okay first some background info...
I have a MacBook Pro (C2D), an Apple TV, and an iPhone that all connect to my AirPort Extreme (n draft spec). I had the AirPort Extreme running at n (b/g compatible). No problem.
Then I decided to get an AirPort Express so that I could stream my music from iTunes over to my Allen & Heath Xone 92 mixer and thus my nice Mackie studio monitors (i.e. use AirTunes to stream music to speakers). In hooked up all the hardware (i.e. the monster cable and the power cord) for the Express, then installed the supplied AirPort CD. I then phoned Apple Care because I didn't want to mess anything up. I don't remember what steps I took exactly with the representative, but basically at the end of the day we got the music to stream. Great! Well not so much... I didn't realize while I was on the phone that we had actually set up (I think this is correct) 2 "networks"... one was the AirPort Extreme, the other was the AirPort Express. So if I wanted to use the internet, I had to choose Extreme. If I wanted to stream music, I had to choose Express and no choice of using both at the same time.
So yesterday I phone Apple again... Explain the situation, and we hard reset both the Extreme and Express, this time setting up the Express as a WDS (wireless distribution system). Now I can use the internet and stream music at the same time. Great! Well not so much... now whenever I stream music it cuts out for minutes at a time, not really working properly.
So I phone Apple for the third time... We change a whole bunch of settings, delete preference files (BIG mistake... reset all my energy settings, .Mac, etc.... thanks Apple!!!!) and at the end of like 4 different scenarios basically reset the Extreme and Express, but this time under the guise that the reason the last setup was cutting out while streaming music was that the Extreme was using WPA2 security and the Express only really likes WEP. So I change to WEP when I hard reset the Extreme, hard reset the Express, do a WDS and everything seems to be working (while on the phone with Apple). Great! Not so much... hahahaha.
So now the issue is that I can't connect to the AirPort Extreme network all the time... it shows up under my lists of networks (along with some of my neighbor's networks) but OS X will not automatically connect to it. When I select it I get the "error while trying to connect" error. Also my iPhone will not automatically connect to the AirPort Extreme either.
So basically what the heck is going on??? How can I have my AirPort Extreme, AirPort Express, iPhone, and Apple TV all co-exist on a network and be able to at the same time browse the internet and stream music over AirTunes???
Sorry for the long read... Please help!
-Keith

Unless you have a requirement to extend your 802.11n AirPort Extreme Base Station's (AEBSn) wireless network with the AirPort Express Base Station (AX), then you only needed to set up the AX in "client mode" to stream iTunes.
AirPort Express Base Station (AX) - iTunes Setup
Either connect to the AX's wireless network or connect directly, using an Ethernet cable, to the Ethernet port of the AX, and then using the AirPort Utility in "Manual Setup" mode, make the following changes:
AirPort > Base Station
o Base Station Name: <rename or leave default>
o Base Station Password: <enter desired password>
o Verify Password: <re-enter desired password>
AirPort > Wireless
o Wireless Mode: Join a wireless network
o Network Name: <existing AEBSn's wireless network>
o Wireless Security: <select the encryption type of the existing wireless network>
Music
o Enable AirTunes (checked)
o Enable AirTunes over Ethernet (optional)
o iTunes Speaker Name: <enter desired speaker name>
o iTunes Speaker Password: (optional)
o Verify Password: (optional)

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Can't get Airport Extreme and Express to join same network

I recently bought an Airport Extreme so I could create a wireless network with my Airport Express. THis way I could browse the internet and stream music to my stereo at the same time. After spending hours trying to get both AP Extreme and Express linked together in a WDS network, I have failed time and time again. I have no problem setting the AP Extreme as the WDS main. My iMac and laptop connect to the AP Extreme just fine. I can set up the AP Express to stream music via iTunes to my stereo without problems. But to get them working together in the same network has got me stumped.
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I have done this a dozen time today with different base stations like yours.
The only thing I can think of is this:
1. With the WDS Main, make sure you have the address of the Remote in the box.
2. With the WDS Remote, make sure you have the address of the Main in the box.
3. Make sure both base stations have the same network name in the wireless tab.
Then restart both base stations.
Let us know what you find out.
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Extending using a wireless connection always results in a performance compromise.
If the Express is going to extend using a wireless connection, then the Express will need to be located about half way between the AirPort Extreme and the general area where you need more wireless coverage. The more that you have line-of-sight between the Extreme and Express, the better the network will operate.
Remember......the Express can only "extend" the quality and signal speed that it receives, so it needs to be located where it can get a very good signal from the Extreme. Although Apple cleverly uses the term "extend", a more accurate term for the Express would be "repeater".
If the Express will extend by connecting to the Extreme using a permanent, wired Ethernet cable connection......highly recommended for best performance.....then the Express can be located exactly where you need more wireless coverage. There is no signal loss at all through the Ethernet cable, so the Express gets a full speed signal no matter where it might be located.
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Firstly, the easiest bit (although I don't believe you need to do this):
I would try "downgrading" the Extreme station's network type to only b/g (excluding n entirely), but I don't see that option in the radio settings anymore
You will get additional settings if you hold down the option key while browsing the radio settings drop down menu.
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However you seem to be convinced your problems arise when your express is running which may narrow things down a little if correct, if not it may actually lead us away from the answer to your issue.
Is it the kind of security I'm running? Should I try WEP or... none at all?
I use WPA and have no problems (password = 8 Characters)
Should I attach it a different way? Perhaps manually set it to "participate in a WDS network" or "extend a wireless network?
I have my expresses set to participate in a WDS network, but that's because I use them for other things other than itunes, I would have thought 'join a network' would be fine.
You could check that all your devices are using independent IP addresses and all are using the same subnet. You could also check that no two devices have the same mac address, I've been told a million times this can't happen, but I've seen it. You may be wise to check these things before and after your devices have been 'kicked off the network", you may even want to write them down to see if any are changing.

Here's one for ya! Extreme and Express together...

Hi,
I purchased an Extreme and Express today. (So far this is working much better than the D-Link and Linksys I tested.)
Ok, here's what I'd like to do.
Firstly, the DSL modem is connected to the Extreme.
1) I have a Mac Pro 2.66 which is connected to the Extreme via Ethernet cable.
2) The Express is in the living room.
3) An iMac 2.4 which is in the study, is quite a distance from the Extreme, which is why I purchased the Express... to Bridge.
Ok everything works when the Extreme is set to 2.4 GHz, but when I set the Extreme to 5 GHz, I have service on the Mac Pro, but the iMac does not get any service. I imagine this has something to do with the Express... maybe not.
Does anyone know why I can't get any service on the iMac when the Extreme is set to 5GHz?
Your help would be truly appreciated.
Thank you in advance.
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802.11n AirPort Extreme and Express

Hello,
Thank you in advance for all your help and replies, I truly appreciate it.
I'm looking to purchase an 802.11n Airport Extreme and AirPort Express. I want to setup the Extreme next to my DSL modem and setup the Express in another room and have it extend the wireless network. The Express will also serve as an ethernet port from my DVR unit. I have read different posts that indicated that if I setup the Express to wirelessly connect to the Extreme, via WDS, or some other method, the wireless network will be downgraded to 802.11g. I currently have a 802.11g wireless network. I have one Buffalo Technology 802.11g wireless router and one Buffalo Technology 802.11g router (setup as an access point) and can do everything I need except connect a external HD via USB.
If at all possible, I would like the entire network (Extreme and Express) to use the same SSID and password. Have the Extreme perform the MAC filtering, provide DHCP address, and service a guest network.
So, do I understand what I have read correctly, that connecting an 802.11n Extreme and 802.11n Express via wireless (WDS, or other method) will downgrade the network to 802.11g? Are there any other recommendations on how I should connect these two devices and provide 802.11n service?
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--GMReed

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>If at all possible, I would like the entire network (Extreme and Express) to use the same SSID and password.
By default, both base stations must uses the same Network Name or SSID and wireless password to work properly.
>Have the Extreme perform the MAC filtering, provide DHCP address, and service a guest network.
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Brand new user of Extreme and express - surprising speed test results

Dear All,
I had been using a linksys wireless router connected to a 20mps cable connection to send a wifi signal around my home. After a fair bit of research I upgraded to an airport extreme (wanted benefit of the gb ethernet ports and simultaneous dual band which the linksys did not have.)
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When the express is plugged in mbps on speed test drops from 19mbps to 4mbps on both the macbook pro and the ipad. Switch of the express reconnect the devices to wifi (I guess now they are focussing on the airport extreme) and speeds return back to the 19mbps!. Why would this be? And is there any way to fix it? The extra range is useful but not at the expense of all that speed.
thanks
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Setup looks correct.
Have you tried some different channel settings to see if another channel might work better?
For 5 GHz, you would want to choose one of the higher numbered channels 149, 153, 159, 161 and make sure that "enable wide channels" is checked in Wireless Options.
For 2.4 GHz the lower numbered channels are usually more crowded, so you might try one of the higher numbered channels for that band, maybe 9, 10, 11.
Apple routers seem to be very sensitive to interference. If you have a cordless phone there, try powering it off for 45-60 minutes and restarting the Extreme and Express to see if that makes any difference.
If you have time, you can scan to see what other networks are working around you with a utility like iStumbler.
If you do this, you may be surprised that "full bars" is not as much signal strength as you might have thought. The "bars" are there pretty much for show. They really don't tell you much about the real signal strength on the network and they don't tell you anything about noise on the network, which can drag down speeds.

Coming over from the dark side.....many questions...Extreme and Express

My 1st apple product was the iPhone so now I believe!
Recently, I purchased an Airport Extreme 802.11n from eBay.
Question #1: Are there two versions of the Airport Extreme 802.11n? How do I know if I have the dual-band version? From the Airport Utility, I can choose the 2.4Ghz or 5Ghz band but not both. I can see that there is a "b/g" compatible mode but what does it mean if I choose the b/g compatible mode? It seems that I have the older 802.11n Airport Extreme model?
I also purchased a used Airport Express b/g model. I thought it was the "n" model because it looks like the "n" model (all white). I have a bad feeling that this does not have the WDS feature. If this is the case, does that mean I can't use this Airport Express to extend the Airport Extreme Base Station?
Can I use bridge mode wireless to extend the wireless signal in my home although I will have two wireless ID's in the home? Basically, with the Extreme and Express that I have now, can I set it up to extend wireless coverage in my home?
My Extreme is currently on 7.3.1 because 7.4.1 is not stable. My Windows pc's disconnects all the time.
My Express is on 6.3.

Hello westladog. Welcome to the Apple Discussions!
Are there two versions of the Airport Extreme 802.11n?
There are actually three "versions." Here they are in "oldest" to "newest" order:
o Non-Gigabit Ethernet (Part No. MA073LL/A)
o Gigabit Ethernet (Part No. MB053LL/A)
o Dual-Band (Part No. MB763LL/A)
Based on your description, you have either the non-Gigabit or Gigabit version.
I can see that there is a "b/g" compatible mode but what does it mean if I choose the b/g compatible mode?
That would mean that your AirPort will support both 802.11n and 802.11b/g wireless clients simultaneously.
I also purchased a used Airport Express b/g model. I thought it was the "n" model because it looks like the "n" model (all white). I have a bad feeling that this does not have the WDS feature.
Both the newer 802.11n or older 802.11b/g versions of the AirPort Express Base Station (AX) support WDS ... so either could be used to extend the wireless range of your 802.11n AirPort Extreme Base Station (AEBSn).
Can I use bridge mode wireless to extend the wireless signal in my home although I will have two wireless ID's in the home?
With a WDS, you will only have one "wireless ID." The AirPorts use the term "Network Name." It is also known as a SSID.
Basically, with the Extreme and Express that I have now, can I set it up to extend wireless coverage in my home?
Yes.

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1. On both devices I have to configure access control. I figured this is an extension of the Extreme, the Express uses the same list
2. When I finished configuring I see the Extreme and Express flash heavily green and my wired network is becoming extreme slow. I think the two devices are talking to each other, but packets are dropping??
I tried a hard and soft reset of the both devices, no solution.
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The firmware I use is 7.5.2

I just got my new AirPort Extreme and configured it to use 2,4 and 5 GHz. I also would like to use Access control. When I configure my AirPort Express to extend my network I see two strange things happen.
1. On both devices I have to configure access control. I figured this is an extension of the Extreme, the Express uses the same list
2. When I finished configuring I see the Extreme and Express flash heavily green and my wired network is becoming extreme slow. I think the two devices are talking to each other, but packets are dropping??
I tried a hard and soft reset of the both devices, no solution.
Does anyone recognize this problem and maybe you can tell me what the best way is to configure both devices.
Is there also a way to configure WEP instead of WPA for using my Nintendo DS.
The firmware I use is 7.5.2

Connecting Extreme and Express via ethernet to both transmit

Hi,
I have a brand new Airport Extreme and Express set up in my house. At the moment the Express is wirelessly extending the range of the Extreme and also serving Airtunes to my Stereo.
My question is can I connect the Airport Extreme and Express via ethernet so that they both transmit a wi fi signal. Or can the Express only connect to the Extreme wirelessly when acting as a network extender?

I figured it out after I did the post.
I plugged them both in to the Ethernet but instead of having the Express extending the Extremes network, I set them both up with the same Name and Password to act independantly as an Active Roaming network.
Now my laptop just picks the one with the best signal as I roam the house and you don't even notice it change Airport.
My Airtunes is now hard wired as well.
thanks.

Slow Wi-Fi connection with both Extreme and Express

Hi all,
I have problems with slow Wi-Fi connection at home. With my 100/100 Mbit/s fiber I have an Airport Extreme 802.11ac connected by Ethernet cable directly into the cable modem.
With only the Extreme as a router I was not satisfied with the Wi-Fi range and therefore also bought an Airport Express 802.11n (2nd generation ) to extend the network with.
The range got better but I'm facing real slow Wi-Fi connection both on the Extreme and the Express.
Example - When connected to the Extreme less than 1 meter from it I normally get a down speed on 30 Mbit/s and on the Express (placed 8 meters from the Extreme) I normally get between 2 to 8 Mbit/s down speed.
I have a couple of questions about this issue below that I hope someone can answer.
1. The Extreme and the Express are connected wireless. If I connect them together with cable instead, will I then get the same speed from the Express that I have on the Extreme?
2. I've read in several forums that the latest versions on the Extreme and Express causes bad Wi-Fi connections and an downgrade to earlier version is recommended. My problem is that Airport Utility only can find the latest versions when trying to downgrade (bought both of them recently).
How can I downgrade to earlier versions when Airport Utility can't find them? If possible, is this still recommended to do?
Current versions:
Extreme - 7.7.3
Express - 7.6.4
3. Could it cause problems if the Extreme and Express doesn't have the same versions, or is this normal?
4. Any suggestions to improve the down speed on my Wi-Fi connection?
Thanks in advance!

1. Cable connections are always better.
But test first.. turn off the express.. reboot or even factory reset the extreme and have another go with it.
On a computer plugged in by ethernet test the speed.. wireless should be off..
So the most important thing is .. do you get full speed by ethernet.. if not you will never get it by wireless.. always less.. and sometimes much less.
2. You cannot downgrade either of those models. So you are stuck with them as is..
3. I think wireless links are always problematic.. by the very nature of the beast you will drop your speed by half.. so if the links were perfect.. and the Extreme wireless gives you 30Mbit then the best the express could ever give you is 15Mbit.. it is the nature of wireless.
4. Yes.. we can make suggestions.
But give me the pure wired network speed first. If that is low then tell me what modem you are using, which you mentioned.. normally a fibre system has no modem just a fibre converter to ethernet called ONT. Optical Network Terminal

Extreme and Express help... can't seem to co-exist?

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