Faces vs Struts Today

I'm looking for a MVC tool to use in a farily large J2EE project starting this month.
Is it safe to say that I should use Struts rather than wating for Faces? Is it safe to say that Faces is a few quarters from being ready ?
Or, is there a big Faces reference implementation or vendor implementation that is just about to release?
Bob

It seems to me that Struts and JSF will have to work together to afford the most effective MVC2-based environment. JSF deals with the View and Struts tends to focus on the Controller.
Read this : http://jakarta.apache.org/struts/status.html
It is planned to integrate JSF and Struts in the 2.0.x release.
The problem is it really takes a long time to get a final release. Struts 1.1 has been a beta release for a very long time (informatically speaking) and it is about the same for JSF now.
bergsten said :
"If you're need to start development this year, I recommend staying away from JSF; it's only an Early Access release at this point and a lot of things will change before it's final."
Don't wait too long i think...

Similar Messages

JavaServer Faces and Struts

For those of you interested in using JavaServer Faces and Struts together (and my mailbox indicates that this is quite a few people :-), I'm happy to announce the immediate availability of an integration library that allows you to use the EA3 release of JavaServer Faces with a recent nightly build (20030216 or later) of Struts 1.1 -- it will also work with the upcoming 1.1-rc2 and 1.1-final releases -- together. Nightly builds of the integration library are available at <http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/jakarta-struts/nightly/struts-faces/>.
The sources for this package are in the Struts CVS repository, in the "contrib/struts-faces" directory, and will be included in the source nightly distributions starting with the 20030307 version. It is not currently planned to include the struts-faces integration library with binary distributions of Struts 1.1, since it is still an EA quality release.
See the README.txt file (included in the nightly build) for more information on running the example application and using the integration library in your own applications.

What are the reasons not to have extended
RequestProcessor from Struts with the
capabilities of the FacesServlet... a sort of
"FacesProcessor" (extended the regular
RequestProcessor)? (should be nice for views
with no JSF components: in order not to execute
FacesServlet for each views , event if there is
no JSF component in the view)It turned out that I needed a customized RequestProcessor anyway (a couple of the processXxx methods had to work differently), but it actually would have been more work incorporating FacesServlet directly into it. In essence, there is now (in the combined version) a "front controller" for UI events , FacesServlet, and a "middle controller" for form submit events (RequestProcessor). When a UI event happens that just causes the current page to be redisplayed (think of a tree control where you click on the "expand this node" icon), you don't really want the Struts controller servlet to even be bothered by this request. Indeed, if you're using a presentation that was based on DHTML+Javascript, such an event would have been handled on the client anyway, and would never have been sent to the server at all.
The combined approach still supports Faces and non-Faces pages, though. This means you can migrate one page at a time and test things (which is exactly what I did when I ported the pages of the example app).

JavaServer Faces or Struts - New insights anyone?

Hello Everyone:
JSP or Struts???!! I'm really lost.
I've read almost every posting on the subject (on this and other forums), yet, I couldn't come with a solid conclusion (may be only inclinations).
I've started developing my very first real-world web application which is to be up and running by December 2003. I've started reading on both Struts and JavaServer Faces so as to adopt either in that application.
What complicates things is that I'm a new comer to the web-application world in general (let alone Struts and JSF).
I'm inclined to use JSF (as it seems that it would be gaining more support and popularity in the near future), yet, It's still in the EA form, while Struts is matured and already popular.
I'm in need of a Mentor's advice to direct me to the suitable technology as I regard this first project to be both an investment into my career and a robust/reliable front end to my capabilities.
Appreciate your responses and suggestions. I also appreciate all your previous posts (especially Craig's ones), and apologize if this is an old topic.
Kindest regards

You must have read my posts then.
I think JSF should be ALLWAYS compared to
http://borland.com/products/downloads/download_csharpbuilder.html which is free (Borland C#) or
http://www.asp.net/webmatrix/guidedtour/getstarted/tooloverview.aspx
at all times, and people should pick the one that is cheaper in production or faster to develop on.
It would be great to read someplace feature/cost comparison to
http://borland.com/products/downloads/download_csharpbuilder.html
I think if people are using EJB and/or Blueprints, they should use JSF (but wait till version 2.0?)
If they are using Windows Servers, they should use Borland C#
If you like JSF design and would like open source, this is most like JSF, IMO (note that it could support standards like XUL or X-Forms or WS/SOA):
http://jakarta.apache.org/ecs
My choice is this via SOA:
http://examples.macromedia.com/petmarket/store.html
Struts does have 6 books out and at least 4 places that offer training on it, and a production track record, it is an open standard, everyone (WW2, Spring, etc.) allways starts w/ "We are like Struts,... only better".
.V

ADF Faces and Struts confusion

Hello alltogether,
I'm developing with struts for some years now but I'm completely new to ADF and Faces.
I want to integrate a "simple" ADF Faces page with one TreeTable to an existent struts application.
The idea I had is to create an action within the struts-config.xml inheriting from the DataAction or DataForwardAction in order to load and prepare the data for the TreeTableModel.
When I call the ADF Faces page using the .do call for the Action created (I have to prepend /faces/ to the normal Action call) the page is rendered correctly but I do not enter my derived Action class at all.
So my question is: How is the preferred way to fill the Model of the TreeTable before the ADF Faces page is rendered. The necessary datasource is obtained from a struts basic action throughout the whole application.
I'm now struggeling with the pageDef.xml (using the documentation from here: http://www.oracle.com/technology/documentation/jdev/b25947_01/index.html) but I'm really lost since I do not understand what happens when and how resp. why it happens.
All I want is the following: Prepare and load the necessary TreeModel before the page gets rendered (the appropriate model depends on a parameter which is given in the request that is send and which successfully response should be the ADF Faces page with the TreeTable filled with the appropriate data)!
Can please somebody give me the necessary piece of advice?
I'm trying for almost a day now!
Many thanks in advance
Best Regards

Dear Mr. Vohra, It is not yet Clear whether we can use ADF Faces with Tiles,
With out using Facelets, of MyFaces?
Some users say they are using these two frameworks, but still complain of problems.
And you are suggesting to use facelets with ADF faces .
Can't we use ADF Faces and Tiles with out any other intermediate technology?
Thanking you,
Samba.
Message was edited by:
saasira

Faces and Struts Intregration

Its a hot topic nowadays.but there is no any help/answer is avaialable in this forum...
i and many other develpers want to intregarte both framework.
anybody knows the TESTED n VALID examle or sampe application.kindly give us link here.....or if anybody has done it then kindly let me know here as i have done some examples but facing some problems.
PLEASE HELP ME AS OON AS U CAN

Dear Mr. Vohra, It is not yet Clear whether we can use ADF Faces with Tiles,
With out using Facelets, of MyFaces?
Some users say they are using these two frameworks, but still complain of problems.
And you are suggesting to use facelets with ADF faces .
Can't we use ADF Faces and Tiles with out any other intermediate technology?
Thanking you,
Samba.
Message was edited by:
saasira

Faces Performance vrs Struts

In evaluating JSF's, I put together a simple customer maintenance application of about 10 screens, first using Struts and then again using JSF's, matching the UI exactly. To measure relative performance between these two technologies, I isolated 3 relative static pages from each and ran individual JMeter benchmarks against them (just cycling between these 3 pages over and over). The struts implementation is approximately 5 times faster (measured in pages/sec) over faces. My question is this the same observation most have seen so far (faces vrs struts)? I understand faces is new and will continue to improve. I am using the lastest snap of faces 1_1_01. I welcome any comments.

This is a slow moving thread, but the issue stills seems to be hanging around. I got similar results current technology.
I grabbed the attachments from the original performance bug https://javaserverfaces.dev.java.net/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=3 and ran some JMeter tests against the "JSP only" and the JSF versions.
The pages are really simple, the JSP version outputs a page which is visually identical to the JSF page. The table in question had 10 columns and 50 - 200 rows. Not a huge amount of data. I used MyFaces 1.1.3 as the JSF implementation and ran the test in JBoss 4.0.4 GA running on JDK 1.4.2.
Here's the results:
               Table Rows   Average [ms] Median [ms]   Hits / Min   Samples
JSF Testcase    50           36            30            1300         5007
JSP Testcase    50           14            10            4030         5001
JSF Testcase    100          56            60            1050         5001
JSP Testcase    100          21            20            2700         5001
JSF Testcase    200          100           100           590          5001
JSP Testcase    200          26            30            2170         5001 This data confirms the discussion original JSF bug. The JSF version started out nearly three times slower than the JSP page. The relative performance of the JSF version degraded to nearly four times slower as table rows were added.
So if you are thinking about adopting JSF you should be aware of the performance hit and make sure that you can architect around the problem or get the performance benchmarks adjusted. Perceived performance is important in real life projects so it's more than a theoretical problem.
I'd also like to know if anybody has ideas or code samples that make JSF perform better?

Did anybody used ADF Faces with Apache Struts?

Hi
Can anybody give some guidelines of how to use ADF Faces with Struts?

I think you'll get a better answer for this on an iBatis forum.
I think I knew one customer who used this combination.
We don't have a specific tutorial that shows you how to use iBatis with ADF Faces, but at the end of the day any of the tutorials we have that shows you how to use POJO or a session facade to front POJO will be applicable to iBatis.

How to use ADF Faces with struts1.3.8

Hi
Can anybody guide us how to use ADF faces with Struts 1.3.8.
Your help will be appreciated.
Thanks
Chetan

Xpp,
Have a look at the ADF Developer's Guide for specific instructions on menus (the ADF Developer's Guide for Forms/4GL Developers has the information in section 19.2).
You can put javascript handlers on the components to get keyboard event handling.
John

Faces data missing; how to recover?

About 2 months ago, I verified my back-ups, wiped my drive, and did a fresh install of everything on my MacBook Pro. Many problems were solved, and all was well -- including with my iPhoto library -- until today.
Although I don't access Faces often, I had previously spent time identifying quite literally several hundred faces. Well, today I went to Faces and discovered that the entire database had been "initialized." The page is blank, as if I'd never used Faces before. I have over 26,000 photos and previously spent many, many hours organizing faces. So, needless to say, this is devastating.
Since I do have backups of my data, is it possible to restore, from a backup, the previously active faces data? Will iPhoto still "recognize" it? (No pun intended.)

Have you tried iPhoto's built-in iPhoto Library First Aid Tools? I had a similar problem with one of my libraries after upgrading the library to 9.4.1 and repairing the library brought the faces back.
Make a baclup-copy of your current library, just to be safe, the hold down the command-key and the option-key at the same time while you double-click iPhoto.
You will see the first aid panel. Select "Repair Database". If this does not help, try "Rebuild Databbase".
If this does not bring the faces back, try rebuilding using iPhoto Library Manager, see Terence Devlin's "option 2" here:
Re: Unreadable format when reading from iphone 4
Regards
Léonie

J2EE MVC模式JSF与Struts的异同

J2EE MVC模式JSF与Struts的异同
Struts和JSF/Tapestry都属于表现层框架，这两种分属不同性质的框架，后者是一种事件驱动型的组件模型，而Struts只是单纯的MVC模式框架，老外总是急吼吼说事件驱动型就比MVC模式框架好，何以见得，我们下面进行详细分析比较一下到底是怎么回事？
　　首先事件是指从客户端页面（浏览器）由用户操作触发的事件，Struts使用Action来接受浏览器表单提交的事件，这里使用了Command模式，每个继承Action的子类都必须实现一个方法execute。
　　在struts中，实际是一个表单Form对应一个Action类(或DispatchAction)，换一句话说：在Struts中实际是一个表单只能对应一个事件，struts这种事件方式称为application event，application event和component event相比是一种粗粒度的事件。
　　struts重要的表单对象ActionForm是一种对象，它代表了一种应用，这个对象中至少包含几个字段，这些字段是Jsp页面表单中的input字段，因为一个表单对应一个事件，所以，当我们需要将事件粒度细化到表单中这些字段时，也就是说，一个字段对应一个事件时，单纯使用Struts就不太可能，当然通过结合JavaScript也是可以转弯实现的。
　　而这种情况使用JSF就可以方便实现，
＜h:inputText id="userId" value="#{login.userId}"＞
　　＜f:valueChangeListener type="logindemo.UserLoginChanged" /＞
＜/h:inputText＞
　　#{login.userId}表示从名为login的JavaBean的getUserId获得的结果，这个功能使用struts也可以实现，name="login" property="userId"
　　关键是第二行，这里表示如果userId的值改变并且确定提交后，将触发调用类UserLoginChanged的processValueChanged(...)方法。
　　JSF可以为组件提供两种事件：Value Changed和 Action. 前者我们已经在上节见识过用处，后者就相当于struts中表单提交Action机制，它的JSF写法如下：
＜h:commandButton id="login" commandName="login"＞
　　＜f:actionListener type=”logindemo.LoginActionListener” /＞
＜/h:commandButton＞
　　从代码可以看出，这两种事件是通过Listerner这样观察者模式贴在具体组件字段上的，而Struts此类事件是原始的一种表单提交Submit触发机制。如果说前者比较语言化（编程语言习惯做法类似Swing编程）；后者是属于WEB化，因为它是来自Html表单，如果你起步是从Perl/PHP开始，反而容易接受Struts这种风格。
　　基本配置
　　Struts和JSF都是一种框架，JSF必须需要两种包JSF核心包、JSTL包（标签库），此外，JSF还将使用到Apache项目的一些commons包，这些Apache包只要部署在你的服务器中既可。
　　JSF包下载地址：http://java.sun.com/j2ee/javaserverfaces/download.html选择其中Reference Implementation。
　　JSTL包下载在http://jakarta.apache.org/site/downloads/downloads_taglibs-standard.cgi
　　所以，从JSF的驱动包组成看，其开源基因也占据很大的比重，JSF是一个SUN伙伴们工业标准和开源之间的一个混血儿。
　　上述两个地址下载的jar合并在一起就是JSF所需要的全部驱动包了。与Struts的驱动包一样，这些驱动包必须位于Web项目的WEB-INF/lib，和Struts一样的是也必须在web.xml中有如下配置：
＜web-app＞
　　＜servlet＞
　　　　＜servlet-name＞Faces Servlet＜/servlet-name＞
　　　　＜servlet-class＞javax.faces.webapp.FacesServlet＜/servlet-class＞
　　　　＜load-on-startup＞1＜/load-on-startup＞
　　＜/servlet＞
　　＜servlet-mapping＞
　　　　＜servlet-name＞Faces Servlet＜/servlet-name＞
　　　　＜url-pattern＞*.faces＜/url-pattern＞
　　＜/servlet-mapping＞
＜/web-app＞
　　这里和Struts的web.xml配置何其相似，简直一模一样。
　　正如Struts的struts-config.xml一样，JSF也有类似的faces-config.xml配置文件：
＜faces-config＞
　　＜navigation-rule＞
　　　　＜from-view-id＞/index.jsp＜/from-view-id＞
　　　　＜navigation-case＞
　　　　　　＜from-outcome＞login＜/from-outcome＞
　　　　　　＜to-view-id＞/welcome.jsp＜/to-view-id＞
　　　　＜/navigation-case＞
　　＜/navigation-rule＞
　　＜managed-bean＞
　　　　＜managed-bean-name＞user＜/managed-bean-name＞
　　　　＜managed-bean-class＞com.corejsf.UserBean＜/managed-bean-class＞
　　　　＜managed-bean-scope＞session＜/managed-bean-scope＞
　　＜/managed-bean＞
＜/faces-config＞
　　在Struts-config.xml中有ActionForm Action以及Jsp之间的流程关系，在faces-config.xml中，也有这样的流程，我们具体解释一下Navigation：
　　在index.jsp中有一个事件：
＜h:commandButton label="Login" action="login" /＞
　　action的值必须匹配form-outcome值，上述Navigation配置表示：如果在index.jsp中有一个login事件，那么事件触发后下一个页面将是welcome.jsp
　　JSF有一个独立的事件发生和页面导航的流程安排，这个思路比struts要非常清晰。
　　managed-bean类似Struts的ActionForm，正如可以在struts-config.xml中定义ActionForm的scope一样，这里也定义了managed-bean的scope为session。
　　但是如果你只以为JSF的managed-bean就这点功能就错了，JSF融入了新的Ioc模式/依赖性注射等技术。
Ioc模式
　　对于Userbean这样一个managed-bean，其代码如下：
public class UserBean {
　　private String name;
　　private String password;
　　// PROPERTY: name
　　public String getName() { return name; }
　　public void setName(String newValue) { name = newValue; }
　　// PROPERTY: password
　　public String getPassword() { return password; }
　　public void setPassword(String newValue) { password = newValue; }
＜managed-bean＞
　　＜managed-bean-name＞user＜/managed-bean-name＞
　　＜managed-bean-class＞com.corejsf.UserBean＜/managed-bean-class＞
　　＜managed-bean-scope＞session＜/managed-bean-scope＞
　　＜managed-property＞
　　　　＜property-name＞name＜/property-name＞
　　　　＜value＞me＜/value＞
　　＜/managed-property＞
　　＜managed-property＞
　　　　＜property-name＞password＜/property-name＞
　　　　＜value＞secret＜/value＞
　　＜/managed-property＞
＜/managed-bean＞
　　faces-config.xml这段配置其实是将"me"赋值给name，将secret赋值给password，这是采取Ioc模式中的Setter注射方式。
　　Backing Beans
　　对于一个web form，我们可以使用一个bean包含其涉及的所有组件，这个bean就称为Backing Bean， Backing Bean的优点是：一个单个类可以封装相关一系列功能的数据和逻辑。
　　说白了，就是一个Javabean里包含其他Javabean，互相调用，属于Facade模式或Adapter模式。
　　对于一个Backing Beans来说，其中包含了几个managed-bean，managed-bean一定是有scope的，那么这其中的几个managed-beans如何配置它们的scope呢？
＜managed-bean＞
　　＜managed-property＞
　　　　＜property-name＞visit＜/property-name＞
　　　　＜value＞#{sessionScope.visit}＜/value＞
　　＜/managed-property＞
　　这里配置了一个Backing Beans中有一个setVisit方法，将这个visit赋值为session中的visit，这样以后在程序中我们只管访问visit对象，从中获取我们希望的数据（如用户登陆注册信息），而visit是保存在session还是application或request只需要配置既可。
　　UI界面
　　JSF和Struts一样，除了JavaBeans类之外，还有页面表现元素，都是是使用标签完成的，Struts也提供了struts-faces.tld标签库向JSF过渡。
　　使用Struts标签库编程复杂页面时，一个最大问题是会大量使用logic标签，这个logic如同if语句，一旦写起来，搞的JSP页面象俄罗斯方块一样，但是使用JSF标签就简洁优美：
＜jia:navigatorItem name="inbox" label="InBox"
　　icon="/images/inbox.gif"
　　action="inbox"
　　disabled="#{!authenticationBean.inboxAuthorized}"/＞
　　如果authenticationBean中inboxAuthorized返回是假，那么这一行标签就不用显示，多干净利索！
　　先写到这里，我会继续对JSF深入比较下去，如果研究过Jdon框架的人，可能会发现，Jdon框架的jdonframework.xml中service配置和managed-bean一样都使用了依赖注射，看来对Javabean的依赖注射已经迅速地成为一种新技术象征，如果你还不了解Ioc模式，赶紧补课。

JSF在很大程度上类似Struts，而不是类似Tapestry，可以说是一种Struts 2.0，都是采取标签库+组件的形式，只是JSF的组件概念没有象Struts那样必须继承ActionForm的限制；JSF在事件粒度上要细腻，不象Struts那样，一个表单一个事件，JSF可以细化到表单中的每个字段上。
　　JSF只有在组件和事件机制这个概念上类似Tapestry，但是不似Tapestry那样是一个完全组件的框架，所以，如果你做一个对页面要求灵活度相当高的系统，选用Tapestry是第一考虑。
　　Struts/JSF则适合在一般的数据页面录入的系统中，对于Struts和JSF的选用，我目前个人观点是：如果你是一个新的系统，可以直接从JSF开始；如果你已经使用Struts，不必转换，如果需要切换，可以将JSF和Tapestry一起考虑。
　　另外，JSF/Tapestry不只是支持Html，也支持多种客户端语言如WML或XUI等。
　　这三者之间关系：如果说Struts是左派；那Tapestry则是右派；而JSF则是中间派，中庸主义是SUN联盟的一贯策略。

Today i receive this error ?

**when i try to login to itunes from my computer i receive this error (( itunes could not connect to itunes store the network connection is timeout )) my inernet is fine and i can browse the internet except the itune store .. is any one face this problem today**

I'm having a similar issue and have started another post about it. No responses yet...

Is JSF evolving to a web framework?

hi;
initially i thought JSF would be a full web framework (like struts, WAF etc..).
is there any intention of doing this?
what is the reason of not doing this and having a standard J2EE web framework?
thanks

I just read the JSR for JSF and noticed that teh
Apache Software Foundation was objected to the passing
the JSR. That objection is out of date and has probably been repealed.
Am I correct in assuming that unless the JSR
gets a majority, it will not pass. Even if it does,
without support from a big player like IBM, JSF will
be more like a lame duck.IBM is fully behind JSF.. they're already building a JSF editor for WebSphere Studio.
This JSR conflicts with the Apache open source project
Struts. Considering Sun's current position that JSRs
may not be independently implemented under an open
source license, we see little value in recreating a
technology in a closed environment that is already
available in an open environment.that has changed under the new JSR rules.
To the extent that this JSR extends beyond Struts
today, we would encourage the Sun developers proposing
this JSR to join the Sun developers already leading
Struts to create an open solution at Apache, something
which when finished would be assured of being able to
be implemented as open source.The JSF JSR lead, Craig McClanahan is the creator of Struts. He's also contributing code to Struts-Faces ( http://cvs.apache.org/builds/jakarta-struts/nightly/struts-faces/ ) that integrates JSF and Struts.
The only concern I have with that is that Open Source
is not the greatest model for commerical companies.
There is no money in it. Will it help keep things
standardized...or lead ot more fragmentation. The way
it is right now, u see 5 diff open source frameworks-
all to do the same thing. JSF has a lot of commercial potential, since it standardizes the third party component playing field.. Write your components to the JSF spec and conceivably (*here's hoping*) developers will just drag & drop your components into their webapps.
Ivar

After choosing a blank template in PAGES, i am unable to type in the main body of the docs. I have to open a text box to type. Pls help

Hi all, need help here. I just face this problem today. When i click the pages icon and after choosing a blank template, i am unable to type anything in the document. All icons in the format bar at the top cannot be clicked (font, font size etc). I will have to open a text box in order to type it.
If i open an existing PAGES doc, duplicate and rename it, then i delete all existing text that i have written, only then i can type in at the doc.
To illustrate my problem, attached is a pic from my Macbook screen
Please help.

Maybe try turning on the grammar checker.

Nokia music activation problam slove

This phone is alredy registered with a nokia music unlimited subscription problem

@Hritiraj which issue and/or error message do you face exactly? Today, if you are about a ‘Comes with Music’, ‘Ovi Music Unlimited’, or ‘MixRadio Unlimited’ download subscription, please, there you go …
If you like MixRadio, you have to go for a streaming subscription now (MixRadio+) which does not involve any vouchers anymore, but requires a credit-card – at least in my country.

Workflow and Adobe Products. Is Lightroom the best way to go?

I am somewhere between a serious hobbyist and pro just based on shear number of photos I take and because in shoot in RAW. I've been using Elements for years. I'm dedicating my year to upping my game process wise at least.
I added Bridge but it doesn't play well with Elements 11. I tried Lightroom 4 in the past and hated it. And now Adobe has both Photoshop and Lightroom available for $10/month. What to do what to do? I could stick with Elements. I could add Lightroom 5 and tweak it for Elements. I could abandon Elements and switch to Lightroom 5 plus Photoshop CC. What kind of workflow do you use?
Last night I started trialing Lightroom 5 and it does not have face recognition like Elements 11 does. I'm not sure I can live without face recognition.
Today I tried adding 275 photos to the map in Lightroom. I couldn't figure it out. After 20 minutes I gave up. This is another feature that I use heavily in Elements 11.
I thought Bridge or Lightroom would be the way to go but both seem to be coming up short. I go through about 500 pics a week so I need something to improve my workflow.
Thanks,
-AJ

ajhuff wrote:
In Elements I can open and edit raw files but it seems limited on batch processing. Bridge seems much better at batch procesing but I can't open Raw files without a proper parent program which is not Elements.
You might try posting your PSE questions here:
Photoshop Elements
There are also PS and Adobe Bridge forums:
Photoshop General Discussion
Bridge General Discussion
I've been using PS since 1994 (v3.0) and Lightroom since 2007 (v1.0). In my opinion, for digital photography work LR is the best tool for organizing, editing, and creating output of your camera image files. For more complex edits LR's 'Edit In Photoshop' feature quickly gets your image inside PS (or PSE) with your LR edits for further processing. If you talk to some of the other PS "old-timers" in the PS forum many will tell you LR is for amateurs and PS with Bridge is for "serious" work. I guess it depends on your preference and how experienced you are with PS and Bridge. I use all three (PS, Bridge, LR), but 95% of my work is done using only LR.
As dj_paige has already mentioned, you'll be disappointed if you jump in and use LR without watching and reading the many LR tutorials available. The LR Forum is full of posts from LR beginners who simply haven't gotten a clue on how to use the program's tools. As you said, "I've been using Elements for years. I'm dedicating my year to upping my game process wise at least." If you're willing to put in some time to learn how to use LR you won't be disappointed.

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