Field order on Firewire output

I have been using Premiere Elements for some years and, before that, Premiere 6.5. I have now begun to use Premiere Pro CS6 and am getting on well with it. I have Windows 7 Home Premium with 4Gb of RAM. I realise that 4Gb is borderline for editing HD material but for the time being I shall mainly be cutting SD DV from tape. I have a Pyro Firewire card which is connected to a Sony DSR11 tape deck. I am in the UK and work in PAL 625 720x576, very occasionally 1920x1080i AVCHD, from SD memory cards. The composite video output from the DSR11 is plugged to a CRT monitor.
Capture works fine from the DSR11. But, when using the same unit in E-E mode for monitoring or when Exporting to tape from Premiere, the field order as displayed on the monitor and recorded on tape is wrong. The only way to correct the problem is to reverse the field order of every clip on the Timeline, resulting in everything needing rendering and it all taking a long time.
All indications are that the captured material is correct (lower field first) and that ingested by Elements and previously cut on PrEl is known to be OK. All output from Pro as fed down the Firewire is reversed. I can see no Set Up that selects the Field order.
So, my question: Have I missed something? Is there a hidden menu somewhere?
I'm looking forward to many years working with Pro, just so long as I can get over this little hurdle. Thank you for your time and for any advice you can offer.
Alan S.

If you want to avoid having to reverse every clip in the timeline individually then you can right click each source clip in the bin and select the "modify>interpet" option and make the field order correct. This way anytime you drag anything from that clip to the timeline it will already be corrected. Doing this with the 1 source clip in the bin will also correct any trimmed clips created from the source clip as well. Basically it will save you from having to click the same clip several times in the timeline to reverse the field order individually.
However it still clearly stinks it's reversing your field order, sorry I don't have any ideas on how to fix your actual problem.

Similar Messages

Field order DV _ IMX _ DV

Hi All,
I ran in something curious today:
I have used DV material (lower field) in an IMX sequence (upper field).
Well, normally the 'Shift Field' is necessary to compensate for the difference in field order.
A good reference for this is to use an external monitor. When you did not apply the 'Shift Field' filter, then a problem 'stuttering' movement is very easily visible.
So, I thought.
But I was working the the other day on a set that had hooked up an external monitor (component) via a DV deck (Firewire) to the MacPro).
But did anybody know that in such a case DV material in an IMX timeline, without the 'shift field' filter (fully rendered) does look GOOD on the external monitor? Obviously it should look WRONG!
Only on another system (Kona card) I saw the problem!
Be warned!
Rienk

Hi Rienk
There are so many variables in there that its hard to tell, but heres some things to consider:
1) fully rendered ... was this full quality playback (ie without actually rendering) or was this force rendered
2) applying Shift Fields ... are you taking into consideration that Shift Fields is automatically applied for you anyway whenever a field mismatch is detected
3) it was DV material in an IMX sequence, yet your output path was actually DV ... it existed as IMX only in the timeline space but not in the source or output space
The main point seems to be that it worked (or rather it didn't) as expected when using a direct output path via the Kona, and that it only didn't work as expected when you actually passed it through an additional compression cycle within FCP before passing it to the targeted output (and especially notable that the output compression format did in fact match the original format / field order).
At the end of the day, I think you really had to be there to truly know what went on :/ And of course it also might help if one were a ProApps engineer and so had working knowledge of the code paths
Cheers!
Andy

Motion and Field Order Stupidness

I'll try not to rant too much.
But what is up with Motion and working with DV NTSC video with fields? I have had nothing but headaches. I am a long time After Effects user, and I was glad to get Motion 2 (2.1.2), but I've just spent the last hour and half trying to get it to render DV NTSC video correctly without it getting field jitter on a project that needed to be over-nighted to go on the air. And it still doesn't look totally correct. (I'm not a happy camper)
Here's the deal, I took DV captured footage from FCP using the standard DV/DVCPRO - NTSC preset I've used forever. That footage was imported into a Motion project that was using its own NTSC DV project preset (all lower fields -even). But every time I'd play it back in Motion, or render it out (still using the NTSC DV render preset), I get serious field jitter on DV output.
Eventually I found under the Inspector-Media tabs that the footage was imported as Field Order- None (why I have not a clue). So I changed all the footage to Lower (even). That worked on any footage where size, rotation, or position was not changed. If any of those attributes was changed I get the field order jitter. It seems to me that Motion is not able to render out field ordered video properly and the quality looks poor or jittery.
Now that might seem hasty to say that, but I've been doing the same thing in AE for years, never having to change the imported field order to get it to look right and I have always captured, imported, work with projects and rendered using the QT DV/DVCPRO - NTSC presets.
Can someone help me because I can not believe I've had to change so many setting to try to get video to look right from Motion while using the same settings during the entire workflow.
Thanks, and sorry for the rant.
PowerMac Dual 2.0 G5, PowerMac Dual 1.42 G4, iBook 800 G3, Mac mini 1.42 G4 Mac OS X (10.4.7)

Hey, thanks for the replys.
[....you might want to try using the animation codec..millions of colors...]
I gave that a shot this morning, and I'm having the same problem. See what's going on now is after changing the Field Order to even for the footage media, all of it looks decent except for the ones on an angle, croped or resized and I see this in both Motion's preview and the final render when I play it back in FCP. So as per your suggestion I rendered with the animation codec (filed rendering) and it still has it. Its just odd to me that it does that, like I said before I've worked in the DV/DVCPRO - NTSC codec with FCP and AE for years with no quality degrade. The reason I have always do that is that's what I capture to and that what my FCP project is so to keep it all consistant. BTW, this is going network and cable, no different than I usually do.
[...are you enabling field rendering in the Canvas or in the export settings?]
Yes I am, sorry, I should have pointed that out. I have done combinations of different QT codecs with and without field rendering turned on to see different results. None of course resolves this issue.
Thanks
PowerMac Dual 2.0 G5, PowerMac Dual 1.42 G4, iBook 800 G3, Mac mini 1.42 G4 Mac OS X (10.4.7)

What field order when editing AVCHD in SD timeline?

Hi,
I have some AVCHD 60i footage which will be output to DVD. Reading different ways of editing HD I finally decided to edit the HD footage in an SD timeline since it will never be output to anything other than SD and I then have the ability to zoom around a bit more if needed.
I know I should be editing an interlaced timeline but when I select DV NTSC I get "Lower Field First" by default, whereas I have read that AVCHD interlaced footage is Upper Field First. I do know that DV and SD are different. If I just create a 720x480 29.97 upper field first timeline will I be ok or is the final m2v output expecting one field order of the other?
I will export my final timeline as a lagarith AVI which I will then have Encore encode for me.
Thank you for your suggestions!
-Stephen

Thank you both for your input. I also thought that having a smaller scale timeline would speed up rendering of effects, but maybe I'm mistaken.
I'm exporting as Lagarith AVI because I cannot, not matter what settings I use, get a crisp image when exporting direct to m2v. I always get noticable artifacting around the edges. The AVI appears to minimize this at least a little. I am using Max Rener Quality and Render and Maximum Depth.
But without getting on a tangent on those, it sounds like it IS ok then for me to edit the AVCHD footage (upper field first) in an upper field first timeline and then export (either m2v or avi) as an upper field first file?
I'll keep working on the encoding (been working on it for 2 days) to see why the artifacting is going on.
Thank you again,
-Stephen

Field order issues after export to DV Pal from uncompressed

We are experiencing some difficulty exporting clips from FCP to our Omneon Server for TX.
We are capturing 8 bit uncompressed (AJA and Blackmagic) from digibeta for our edit and all editing stays in uncompressed until final output. Our transmission system demands DV PAL files so we export finished items as DV PAL in FCP and drop onto the server
Our problem is that on playback from the server, the field order is incorrect. Although the exported DV clips properties show lower field order, the clip is obviously playing upper field first. If we capture and edit in DV and export the DV file to the server, then we have no problems. I have tried
exporting uncompressed clips to DV via Compressor and changing the field order in frame controls but no success. It seems that when a clip is captured and edited in upper field it hangs onto that status even after conversion to DV!! Any thoughts greatly appreciated!

when you drop one of your 8 bit uncompressed source clips into your DV PAL timeline, is FCP correctly adding the Shift Fields filer to those timeline instances?
do you edit in 8-bit uncompressed and then export direct to DV PAL or do you nest your 8 bit uncompressed sequence into a DV PAL sequence first and then export as Quicktime Movie w/ current settings? if not the latter, try it (and make sure your nest has the Shift Fields filter applied)

Interlaced footage in secondary preview - wrong field order.

I just got CS5 Production Premium and an EVGA GTX 465, which is basically a GTX470 with less CUDA cores (352 instead of 448). I added the card to the list in the Premiere CS5 txt file (the so called hack) and everything seems to work perfect except for one thing. When I play back interlaced footage that I shot with either of my two AVCHD cameras (Canon HF100 and Panasonic AG-HMC40), the footage in the TV set (which is setup as my second monitor) will play with the fields in the right order but after a few seconds it will start playing as if it were progressive, or as if the fields were in the wrong order. Then, eventually, it will go back to play the fields in the right order, and then the wrong order, and go back and forth like that. It switches every ten or twenty seconds. This happens both when the footage is played back in the source window and in the timeline.
Thanks to the GPU acceleration, it plays smoothly always even with added effects and even with different tracks at different opacity levels (I tried three tracks, one at 25%, another at 50% and the other at 100% and it played without skipping a frame), but I don't understand why it doesn't always send the right field order. I wonder if it has anything to do with the cable that goes to the TV set, since it's DVI on the end that I connect to the video card, and HDMI on the other end. Regardless of that, I purchased the cable from Monoprice and it's a very thick, well shielded cable. The card comes with a mini HDMI output, but the cable that comes with it is not long enough to reach the TV. Still, I'm not sure that it would make a difference.
Is this happening to any of you? Could this be a problem with the card itself, with my footage, or with Premiere?
Note: I had switched the "Multi-display/mixed-GPU acceleration" to "Compatibility mode" in the Nvidia control panel and it didn't make a difference in anything related to CS5, whether it's this particular problem or anything else.

JSS1138 wrote:
We should probably just get the details, instead of speculation on what hardware is being used.
Oh, the system is pretty fast, but Premiere always took a huge toll when external preview was enabled, it was like that in CS3 and CS4 as well. But here are my system specs just in case:
AMD 1090T @3.8 Ghz (stable)
16 GB of DDR3 G.Skill RAM
Gigabyte GA-890FXA-UD5
Western Digital 1.5 Gb Black Edition (as one of the video drives, the OS drive is a standard WD)
EVGA GTX465 1 GB
So while this may not be the fastest computer in the world, it's more than fast enough for HD, with 6 cores and 16 GB of RAM.
This is something that's either wrong with Premiere's design, but maybe there's a workaround, which is what I'm trying to get to. I've been trying many things in the "Manage 3D" section of the Nvidia control panel, but nothing seems to work. VSync on or off, Triple Buffering, etc, etc, the problem is still there.
Obviously if I right click on the monitor window and instead of "Both Fields" I choose either first or second field, I get just that, but I don't see why do I have to edit interlaced video with just one field instead of both.

Totally confused about mixing videos with different field orders.

I have PPcs5 on the pc.
I edit for many different shooters. As such I get everything: Progressive, upper field , lower field . Not to mention from a zillion different cameras & different resolutions.
I output 95% so far to dvd ntsc, 5% BR.
I get dv tapes on some & HD files also.Many times I get a mixure of both on each job. Also Iphone HD files too. Going crazy trying to fiquer out how to set up my sequence when I have upper field or progressive by themselves & also when they are mixed with lower field dv foot...Do I force everything into a lower field seq if going to dvd?
Do I have to deinterlace anything?
If I drag a clip to the new "create seq" icon, it will match the clips properties but is that correct if its a progressive only project or an Upper field project going out to dvd ntsc?
Do I need to RT click on the clips in the project window & "interpet Footage" & force it into a lower field there 1st? Is there a difference between setting up a seq to be played on a progressive DVD player hdmi to a prog TV as apposed to setting up a seq for a non hdmi or non progressive tv?
Does outputting to dvd automatically force it to lower field ?
If my seq isnt set up correctly I notice a big interlace problem when the cams pan from side to side, especially when there are multiple cams with different field orders. Have been unable to find any good discussions or articles on the topic.
How do you guys do it without going crazzzzzzzy?Are there rules? What are the rules? A rule book would really help:-) I Yern for the old DVCAM/DV days:-)

DV is always lower and HD is upper or progressive.
As you are having all fields in one timeline i would make it progressive.
Premiere does a good job in deinterlacing.
Only use Interprete footage when the footage is interprete wrong.
Set up a progressive timeline and drop everything in it. If a clip does not behave correctly you can change fields in the Field Options.
Export from Premiere and import into Encore. That is what i would do......

Compressor Saying Progressive on Upper Field Order Footage?

Hi all,
I have Upper field order 10Bit Uncompressed PAL footage in a proper timeline.
When I export it (not self contained) and open it in QuickTime or FCP, all is well.
So is it odd that when I add the file to Compressor and select it, in the Inspector the Field Order is set to Progressive? It is a drop down menu so I can select Upper, but then it asks me to save it which I chose not to do. If I add an MPEG-2 preset to it, it "auto" detects the file and says Progressive.
What's the deal? Should I simply modify the MPEG-2 preset drop down menu to Upper before I submit the batch?
Thanks,
Jason
G5 Quad 2.5Ghz, 30" Cinema HD Display, Final Cut Studio, CS2 Suite Mac OS X (10.4.9) Powerbooks, other Powermacs, iBooks, iMacs, etc...

OK, here you are,
Original footage :
Original Footage Interpretation:
Render Settings :
Output Module Settings :
Format Options :
Re-imported Footage :
Interpretation of re-imported footage :
The End and Thanks~~

Field Order for Upscaling DVD player

I have a edited HDV project that I have output to DV using the following settings:
Video Compressor - DV NTSC
Field Order: Lower Field First
When I play this on a standard DVD player everything looks fine. The field order looks correct and the object edges look smooth.
However when I play the same DVD in an Upscaling DVD player on an HD TV (720p) there is a "comb effect" around the edges of objects.
I would like the video to play well on both types of setups (non-scaling and upscaling)
What am I doing wrong? What encoder should I be using to get the correct output on both upscaling players and standard?
Thanks,
Mike

>What am I doing wrong?
Downscaling HDV and then upscaling it again for HDTV. Best not to do that and just leave the video HD all the way for HD display.
Get a Blu-ray player is my advice.

Field Order/Dominance question

I've been noticing that spots I've produced that air on my local cable network appear to be having problems with jerky movement of elements created in Motion. I thought that maybe the field order was set wrong on my Motion projects. (I should add that I'm doing "the big no-no" by only monitoring these on my computer and not on a TV monitor. I know, I'll have to remedy that someday.) Anyway, I'm using the "NTSC Broadcast SD" preset and that means field order is lower/even. I'm definitely rendering these out with field rendering on (Apple ProRes, btw) as I can see the interlace combing when viewing the output file.
I thought I'd try an experiment by creating a Motion project that would expose interlacing problems in the worst way and then render it out of Motion three ways: lower, upper and none. I then encoded these to mpeg-2 using Squeeze and burned them to a DVD (in DVDSP) to view on my consumer DVD player and SD television. (Remember, that's the only way I can view them played back interlaced...) To my surprise both the upper and lower movies looked terrible and the one rendered with no field dominance looked the best.
What gives? Any ideas? Does this seem right?
Thanks!
--Kurt Cowling

Wow Iain, you know waaaay more about this than I do. In fact, I asked a question in the iDVD area of this board many moons ago regarding whether or not there was some sort of metadata or tag that let iDVD know if the incoming file was interlaced or progressive and the response was basically "I don't know for sure, but I don't think so".
Anyway, I can confirm what you say regarding the output of ProRes files. The content is interlaced, but when clicking the deinterlace button in the advanced area of QuickTime player nothing happens.
I tried as you suggested and opened the "Advanced..." area of the output settings in Motion and found that interlace was indeed not checked in the ProRes settings. When I output a file after checking that box I can also confirm that the deinterlace button in QT player did actually deinterlace the display of the file.
I normally output my Motion projects in several layers and bring them back into FCP (as rendered video, not Motion files) to composite them with the underlying camera footage. (Makes later changes and updates easier to deal with for my workflow.) I then export the composite out of FCP as uncompressed SD and then proceed to encode for FTP delivery from there (usually H.264). I opened a recent uncompressed file that was output from FCP and found that it suffered from the same problem, namely that the file was not tagged as interlaced, even though the content was interlaced.
I then opened one of the H.264 files that was encoded from the uncompressed master. Same issue again.
The one thing I haven't tried (yet) is outputting my test project from Motion as described in my first post (but with the files tagged correctly this time!) and see if the DVD that gets burned plays correctly. I will try this in the next day or two.
I don't know what happens to my files after I FTP them to the cable provider, but I assume they must transcode them from H.264 into their system. If the files aren't tagged as interlaced then their system is probably treating them incorrectly, as well.
This brings me to the final question(s) that may solve all of this for me:
Is there a way to change just the metadata/tag in an existing QuickTime file (so that it is tagged correctly as interlaced) without having to re-render from the beginning? Also, It appears that FCP may suffer from the same issue since it obviously uses QT to export, just like Motion. If I correctly tag a file rendered from Motion and then import it into FCP and FCP doesn't then pass the correct tag on output to uncompressed I still have the same problem. Or, if FCP tags the uncompressed file correctly, but QT doesn't pass this along to the H.264, I'm still screwed. Hence, my question at the top of this paragraph! I think I really only need the last file I handle before FTPing to have the correct tag, since the content has been fine all along.
Thanks so much Iain for looking into this! I would never have found this on my own. I'm not exactly sure if this is a bug or just a bad implementation, but this seems like a bad oversight for sure and not something that could be figured out from reading the manual.
--Kurt
p.s. I will try some more experimenting with this and hopefully can come back and marked this thread as "question answered" since a workaround seems doable. Iain, would you be willing to submit this to Apple as a bug report? You seem to have a much better handle on this than I do.

Field order issue with Avid codec

Is there some way of setting the field order of the source for Encore DVD 2. Given the problems I experienced with ProCoder I decided to encode a project using the inbuilt Main Concept encoder.
On the interpret footage menu I can correctly set the aspect ratio but not the field order.
Unfortunately Quicktime does not seem to be passing on the correct field order to the Main Concept encoder everytime.
I have had one encode using a preset I created that worked perfectly - I then copied that preset and added a crop and scale to get rid of some VIT (out of essential but viewable on the customers replay system) and everything was field muddled.
I can see how you can set the output field order but no way of setting the source field order. Transcoding on automatic had the same jumbled field effect.
BTW these were full Quicktimes not refs

Probably - although it is such a small re-scale, that if the scaling algorithm is even half-way decent the result should be fine. This is Digibeta originated footage.. in fact the result when I re-worked this in ProCoder was excellent.
I just wanted to avoid having to place a mask over 8 different sequences amounting to 50 minutes in length, as anything you then export would result in a full render (even though the Avid would play it in real time).
I guess I'll have to seriously look at my workflow - everything used to just work beautifully - Avid PAL codecs all UFF except for AvidDV LFF; now I keep getting a weird progressive looking result with the new Avid 1:1 10bit codec even though the source is interlaced UFF and recently I rendered an Avid DV export with all settings correct (Source LFF Target UFF) and it ended up jumbled. I had to deliberately set the source to UFF. I do think the culprit is QT 7 as all these problems seem to have started from the switchover from QT6+, but I'm not certain.

Export QuickTime Movie shifts field order

In august I finished grading a project and made a QT Prores 422 master file for the client to have delivered on a hard drive.
The client has kept quiet until now about an issue - the field order seems to be wrong. I couldn't believe my ears when he told me that. The timeline is lower (even) while the QT file he had received is Upper (odd).
I selected 5 seconds of the timeline and exported using CMD+E, and it says "Setting: current settings". So I thought it would be lower field as the timeline - but no - it comes out as upper, every single time.
How does this happen? Do I really have to make a conversion through compressorr?!

The following settings are the same for the prepped timeline and the one that came back from Color
*Sequence settings*
720x576 PAL Anamorphic 16:9
Field Dominance: Lower (even)
Compressor: Apple ProRes 422
*Item Properties*
Frame Size: 720x576
Anamorphic: Yes
Compressor: Apple ProRes 422
Field Dominance: Lower (even)
However, I think I nailed it. Gonna do some further testing to make sure though... In the Export to QuickTime Movie window, I found that I can select some other setting, using ProRes 422 PAL Anamorphic for instance. And as far as I know - PAL is always lower field, and it seemed to work for the first test I did.

Adding a new field to VA05 Report output

Hi All,
Please suggest what's the best method to add the new field in the report output of VA05 this can be done in 2 ways one way is by writing the code in theUser exit PERFORM MOVE_USERFIELDS or copy the whole program to Zprogram and write the Code?Ist one need access key but the the other method is not required.
Please suggest me the best method
Thanks&Regards
Mahesh

Hi Mahesh,
i'm in the process of making a similar change,
copying to a ZPROGRAM is not so difficult, but as i told you you have to add your new field to VBMTV structure, and copy the includes that you need to change,
P.S. Note, when you copy you have to change some SELECT statements where
it's selecting from T180V table based on sy-repid, you hav to change sy-repid to SAPMV75A, as there's some configuration done for this.
Regards,
Raghavendra

Field Order is a required field for G/L account ....

Hi Experts,
I am getting following error while posting payroll to FI (tcode PC00_M99_CIPE - Create Posting Run).
================================================================================================
Field Order is a required field for G/L account 1000 23107
     Message no. F5808
Diagnosis
     The value for field "Order" in the interface to Financial Accounting is
     an initial value but you are required to make an entry in the field
     selection for G/L account "23107" in company code "1000" linked to the
     field selection for posting key "50".
System Response
     Error
Procedure
    It might be an error in the configuration of the G/L account field
    selection. The initial application, used to call up the interface must
    otherwise define a value for field "Order". If this is the case, contact
    the consultant responsible for the application used to call up the
    interface or get in contact with SAP directly.
================================================================================================
Thanks for the solution in advance.
Regards,
Waqas Rashid

Thanks Dilek for quick reply, but I am unable to find order field for my field status group in OBC4.
Let me tell you the background of what I did ...
I have one wage type 4113 which was linked to vendor account. I changed the link from vendor to balance sheet account and specified new GL 23206 for my symbolic account of wage type 4113.
When I post the payroll result to FI after this change. I got this error.
Regards,
Waqas Rashid

Selection screen fields order in report painter report..

hi experts,
i have a problem with selection screen fields order in report painter report.
Actually in report painter report selection screen order is different compare to report writer report selection screen.
how should i get the same selection screen fields order For Report painter report compare to Report Writer report ?
For example, Report Writer selection screen order is:
ledger:
company code:
period:
current fiscal year:
previous fiscal yer:
previous quarter end period:
where as Report Painter selection screen order is:
ledger:
previous fis year:
current fis year:
company code:
period:
previous quarter end period:
please help me regarding with this.
Thanks and Regards,
NAGARJUNA.

hi nagarjun,
Go to Sq01, select the query and goto to change mode.go to the next screens till u reach Selection fields. Here u enter the NO field in the sequence which u want ot appear in the selection screen and it is done. Save and execute.
Ex:
Selection fields No
Exclude Cancelled Lots 5
Material number 1
Plant 2
Material type 3
Inspection Lot Origin 4
Regards,
Lokesh

Field order on Firewire output

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