Field order question

I have some footage from two camera's I need to do a multicam cut on. The first cam recorded SD DV (lower field first). The second cam recorded MPG 60i which is upper field first. How should I edit this for best quality?
Thanks
Ben

I do not think it will matter much which field you choose but make sure
you reverse the field of the other footage.
Also check if Encore is set to the same field if encoding in Encore.

Similar Messages

Encoding 24p footage - field order question? Should i set to none? Canon XL2

This will be for YouTube. I shot footage on (true) 24p on a canon xl2. Captured in in Premiere in a 29.97 project and removed the pulldown. I'm confused about the field order settings in media encoder. Should this setting be set to 'None' (off)?

Yes, encode to progressive.

Field Order/Dominance question

I've been noticing that spots I've produced that air on my local cable network appear to be having problems with jerky movement of elements created in Motion. I thought that maybe the field order was set wrong on my Motion projects. (I should add that I'm doing "the big no-no" by only monitoring these on my computer and not on a TV monitor. I know, I'll have to remedy that someday.) Anyway, I'm using the "NTSC Broadcast SD" preset and that means field order is lower/even. I'm definitely rendering these out with field rendering on (Apple ProRes, btw) as I can see the interlace combing when viewing the output file.
I thought I'd try an experiment by creating a Motion project that would expose interlacing problems in the worst way and then render it out of Motion three ways: lower, upper and none. I then encoded these to mpeg-2 using Squeeze and burned them to a DVD (in DVDSP) to view on my consumer DVD player and SD television. (Remember, that's the only way I can view them played back interlaced...) To my surprise both the upper and lower movies looked terrible and the one rendered with no field dominance looked the best.
What gives? Any ideas? Does this seem right?
Thanks!
--Kurt Cowling

Wow Iain, you know waaaay more about this than I do. In fact, I asked a question in the iDVD area of this board many moons ago regarding whether or not there was some sort of metadata or tag that let iDVD know if the incoming file was interlaced or progressive and the response was basically "I don't know for sure, but I don't think so".
Anyway, I can confirm what you say regarding the output of ProRes files. The content is interlaced, but when clicking the deinterlace button in the advanced area of QuickTime player nothing happens.
I tried as you suggested and opened the "Advanced..." area of the output settings in Motion and found that interlace was indeed not checked in the ProRes settings. When I output a file after checking that box I can also confirm that the deinterlace button in QT player did actually deinterlace the display of the file.
I normally output my Motion projects in several layers and bring them back into FCP (as rendered video, not Motion files) to composite them with the underlying camera footage. (Makes later changes and updates easier to deal with for my workflow.) I then export the composite out of FCP as uncompressed SD and then proceed to encode for FTP delivery from there (usually H.264). I opened a recent uncompressed file that was output from FCP and found that it suffered from the same problem, namely that the file was not tagged as interlaced, even though the content was interlaced.
I then opened one of the H.264 files that was encoded from the uncompressed master. Same issue again.
The one thing I haven't tried (yet) is outputting my test project from Motion as described in my first post (but with the files tagged correctly this time!) and see if the DVD that gets burned plays correctly. I will try this in the next day or two.
I don't know what happens to my files after I FTP them to the cable provider, but I assume they must transcode them from H.264 into their system. If the files aren't tagged as interlaced then their system is probably treating them incorrectly, as well.
This brings me to the final question(s) that may solve all of this for me:
Is there a way to change just the metadata/tag in an existing QuickTime file (so that it is tagged correctly as interlaced) without having to re-render from the beginning? Also, It appears that FCP may suffer from the same issue since it obviously uses QT to export, just like Motion. If I correctly tag a file rendered from Motion and then import it into FCP and FCP doesn't then pass the correct tag on output to uncompressed I still have the same problem. Or, if FCP tags the uncompressed file correctly, but QT doesn't pass this along to the H.264, I'm still screwed. Hence, my question at the top of this paragraph! I think I really only need the last file I handle before FTPing to have the correct tag, since the content has been fine all along.
Thanks so much Iain for looking into this! I would never have found this on my own. I'm not exactly sure if this is a bug or just a bad implementation, but this seems like a bad oversight for sure and not something that could be figured out from reading the manual.
--Kurt
p.s. I will try some more experimenting with this and hopefully can come back and marked this thread as "question answered" since a workaround seems doable. Iain, would you be willing to submit this to Apple as a bug report? You seem to have a much better handle on this than I do.

Combination HD/SD and field order

Hello all -
I have a program which combines 1080i60 and 480i video in a 1080i60 timeline. The 1080i footage was captured through a Kona LHe, upconverted from 720p30 and 480i DVCAM by the JVC deck. The SD footage was captured as uncompressed SD from Beta SP using the same Kona.
My question has to do with managing the field order for encoding to SD mepg for DVD.
When I send the sequence to compressor, the mpeg preset defaults to upper field dominance (top first). I am used to specifying SD encodes as bottom first, but left it set that way for my first test, figuring this would correspopnd to the field order oof the source. What I seem to be seeing is that only the SD clips are winding up with reversed fields. I could be wrong, and I need to check it a little more carefully, since a lot of the footage originated as progressive anyway.
However, my question is, if in fact it is only these clips, which is the best way to address this:
- change the field dominance of the SD master clips in FCP?
- apply a field reversal filter to the clips in the sequence?
- de-interlace the clips in the sequence?
- change the field dominance in my Compressor preset?
I'd be interested to find out more about how the field dominance is managed by FCP when upconverting, downconverting, and combining formats is handled when capturing, editing, and exporting. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks -
Max Average

Upon further inspection (viewing the DVD on a CRT) it looks like the fields are ok after all.I wa seeing the fields in simulator, which is normal, but the field order looks correct on the final disc.
I am noticing one very strange effect on a clip that has been slowed down, however, where the fields seem to be getting interpreted in the wrong order, resulting in a back-and-forth motion. Again thie clip is interlaced SD in an HD sequence.

Field order on Firewire output

I have been using Premiere Elements for some years and, before that, Premiere 6.5. I have now begun to use Premiere Pro CS6 and am getting on well with it. I have Windows 7 Home Premium with 4Gb of RAM. I realise that 4Gb is borderline for editing HD material but for the time being I shall mainly be cutting SD DV from tape. I have a Pyro Firewire card which is connected to a Sony DSR11 tape deck. I am in the UK and work in PAL 625 720x576, very occasionally 1920x1080i AVCHD, from SD memory cards. The composite video output from the DSR11 is plugged to a CRT monitor.
Capture works fine from the DSR11. But, when using the same unit in E-E mode for monitoring or when Exporting to tape from Premiere, the field order as displayed on the monitor and recorded on tape is wrong. The only way to correct the problem is to reverse the field order of every clip on the Timeline, resulting in everything needing rendering and it all taking a long time.
All indications are that the captured material is correct (lower field first) and that ingested by Elements and previously cut on PrEl is known to be OK. All output from Pro as fed down the Firewire is reversed. I can see no Set Up that selects the Field order.
So, my question: Have I missed something? Is there a hidden menu somewhere?
I'm looking forward to many years working with Pro, just so long as I can get over this little hurdle. Thank you for your time and for any advice you can offer.
Alan S.

If you want to avoid having to reverse every clip in the timeline individually then you can right click each source clip in the bin and select the "modify>interpet" option and make the field order correct. This way anytime you drag anything from that clip to the timeline it will already be corrected. Doing this with the 1 source clip in the bin will also correct any trimmed clips created from the source clip as well. Basically it will save you from having to click the same clip several times in the timeline to reverse the field order individually.
However it still clearly stinks it's reversing your field order, sorry I don't have any ideas on how to fix your actual problem.

Re field order in INNER JOIN

Hi,
I need a suggestion for improvement of my inner JOIN statement.
internal table itab is of below type
type: begin of ty_itab
        field a
        field b
        field c
        field d
        end of ty_itab
I have to join two database table TABLE1 and TABLE2. Fields a and d are from TABLE2 and fields b and c are from TABLE 1.
But in the internal table I must have the fields in the order fielda,b,c,d.
Which of the below two options will be better for performance ? And why ?
option 1:
SELECT tab2~a
              tab1~b
              tab1~c
              tab2~d into corresponding fields of itab from TABLE1 as tab1 and TABLE2 as tab2 on..........
option2:
SELECT tab1~b
              tab1~c
              tab2~a
              tab2~d into corresponding fields of itab from TABLE1 as tab1 and TABLE2 as tab2 on..........
Thanks in advance...
Best Regards
Ananya Mukherjee
Moderator message - Cross post locked
Edited by: Rob Burbank on May 28, 2009 9:43 AM

I am not satisfied with your two options. Because of following reason,
1. First I want to know which one is master table and item table. Because in inner join select query you want to use master table as first and you want to use the item table as second.
Example:
SELECT TAB2A TAB1B TAB1C TAB2D
      INTO TABLE ITAB
    FROM <MASTER TABLE1> AS TAB1 INNER JOIN <ITEM TABLE2> AS TAB2 ON..........
2. You should not use the INTO CORRESPONDING FIELDS OF ITAB. Instead of this you can change the field order in internal table or in select query.
Example:
Use following way
TYPE: BEGIN OF TY_ITAB
                FIELD A
                FIELD B
                FIELD C
                FIELD D
           END OF TY_ITAB
SELECT TAB2A TAB1B TAB1C TAB2D
     INTO TABLE ITAB
   FROM <MASTER TABLE1> AS TAB1 INNER JOIN <ITEM TABLE2> AS TAB2 ON..........
Or , Anyway you are going to use in program only. It will not affect your logic if change the field order in the internal table.
TYPE: BEGIN OF TY_ITAB
                FIELD B
                FIELD C
                FIELD A
                FIELD D
          END OF TY_ITAB
SELECT TAB1B TAB1C TAB2A TAB2D
     INTO TABLE ITAB
   FROM <MASTER TABLE1> AS TAB1 INNER JOIN <ITEM TABLE2> AS TAB2 ON..........
3. In inner join query, the order of Where condition also create the perform issue. Because in where condition maximum you try to use all the primary key from <MASTER TABLE1> and <ITEM TABLE2> and field order in where condition should be same order in <MASTER TABLE1> and <ITEM TABLE>.
This are the things you want to take care when you try to use INNER JOIN Query. If you have any clarification please let me know. I will try answer your Questions.
Ravi.
Edited by: RavivarmanP on May 28, 2009 6:55 PM

What do I need to know about field order and HDV?

I keep seeing field order options in FCP and DVDSP and Compressor etc.
Can anyone point me to any resources that will help me understand things a little better?
I'm editing HDV in FCS.
Thanks
Miller.

Field dominance (actually field order) is a function of how video is recorded.
Each frame of interlaced video is made up of two fields. They are recorded in sequence. At NTSC std video (~30fps) the frames are recorded 1/60th of a second apart.
We will call the first field recorded: #1 and the second field: #2.
To play back correctly you need to play the fields in the order they were recorded
if done correctly it would look like this
1-2 1-2 1-2
if the fields are reversed (by using the wrong field order setting) you would get
2-1 2-1 2-1
This yields a jerky, strobe like playback as the fields are being played not in the order they were recorded.
HDV records the Upper field first in each frame and so is termed Upper Dominant
DV record the Lower field first in each frame and is termed Lower Dominant
Questions? There will be a quiz on Monday. And NO, it is not open book.
Cheers,
x

Exporting settings for H.264 "Field order & TV standart & Profile"?

So, in premiere CC, when exporting to H.264 format. There is these options in the video tab.
Field order & TV standart & Profile
I have 2 questions
What do they change in your video? and does it matter in this day & age?
(I know there the "leave mouse cursor on top of it, get yellow explaining box" but's its technical ciberish to me)

If working with 1080i, then Field Order does matter, and should be set to UPPER.
For 1080p or 720p, then of course it should be set to PROGRESSIVE.
You are correct that "NTSC or PAL" should not really apply when discussing HD formats, for the simple reason that NTSC and PAL refer specifically to standard definition broadcast standards. However, the terms have morphed into being used to differentiate between the NTSC and PAL framerates, being 29.97 and 25 respectively, which does still apply to HD formats.
As for the Profile setting, that depends on the mode of delivery, whether YouTube or Blu-ray or mobile device or whatever. I don't know of any general rule applying in that area. I just use Presets appropriate to my needs and leave the Profile as is, since the Adobe engineers ought to know the best setting for any given preset.
Thanks
Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor Computers

Difference Between D1 PAL and DV PAL field order

Hey guys,
so one of the engineers at work stumped me and i wanted to get your thoughts on this.
Full D1 in NTSC is 720x486 with a PAR of 0.9 (approximate) with a dominant bottom field order.
DV NTSC is 720x480 with a PAR of approximately 1.111~ with a dominant top filed order.
obviously, the DV codec is cutting off 3 odd lines of resolution at the top and bottom, therefore the field reversal and resizing the image (where i get the PAR of 1.111~).
so this is my question:
Full D1 PAL is 720x576 with a PAR of 0.9375 and a dominant bottom field order.
why is DV PAL also 720x576 with a PAR of 1.0666 ~ and a dominant top field order?
thanks for any help, since i know this is not really an editing question
Mikey M.

Hey guys,
so one of the engineers at work stumped me and i wanted to get your thoughts on this.
Full D1 in NTSC is 720x486 with a PAR of 0.9 (approximate) with a dominant bottom field order.
DV NTSC is 720x480 with a PAR of approximately 1.111~ with a dominant top filed order.
obviously, the DV codec is cutting off 3 odd lines of resolution at the top and bottom, therefore the field reversal and resizing the image (where i get the PAR of 1.111~).
so this is my question:
Full D1 PAL is 720x576 with a PAR of 0.9375 and a dominant bottom field order.
why is DV PAL also 720x576 with a PAR of 1.0666 ~ and a dominant top field order?
thanks for any help, since i know this is not really an editing question
Mikey M.

Export QuickTime Movie shifts field order

In august I finished grading a project and made a QT Prores 422 master file for the client to have delivered on a hard drive.
The client has kept quiet until now about an issue - the field order seems to be wrong. I couldn't believe my ears when he told me that. The timeline is lower (even) while the QT file he had received is Upper (odd).
I selected 5 seconds of the timeline and exported using CMD+E, and it says "Setting: current settings". So I thought it would be lower field as the timeline - but no - it comes out as upper, every single time.
How does this happen? Do I really have to make a conversion through compressorr?!

The following settings are the same for the prepped timeline and the one that came back from Color
*Sequence settings*
720x576 PAL Anamorphic 16:9
Field Dominance: Lower (even)
Compressor: Apple ProRes 422
*Item Properties*
Frame Size: 720x576
Anamorphic: Yes
Compressor: Apple ProRes 422
Field Dominance: Lower (even)
However, I think I nailed it. Gonna do some further testing to make sure though... In the Export to QuickTime Movie window, I found that I can select some other setting, using ProRes 422 PAL Anamorphic for instance. And as far as I know - PAL is always lower field, and it seemed to work for the first test I did.

Field Order is a required field for G/L account ....

Hi Experts,
I am getting following error while posting payroll to FI (tcode PC00_M99_CIPE - Create Posting Run).
================================================================================================
Field Order is a required field for G/L account 1000 23107
     Message no. F5808
Diagnosis
     The value for field "Order" in the interface to Financial Accounting is
     an initial value but you are required to make an entry in the field
     selection for G/L account "23107" in company code "1000" linked to the
     field selection for posting key "50".
System Response
     Error
Procedure
    It might be an error in the configuration of the G/L account field
    selection. The initial application, used to call up the interface must
    otherwise define a value for field "Order". If this is the case, contact
    the consultant responsible for the application used to call up the
    interface or get in contact with SAP directly.
================================================================================================
Thanks for the solution in advance.
Regards,
Waqas Rashid

Thanks Dilek for quick reply, but I am unable to find order field for my field status group in OBC4.
Let me tell you the background of what I did ...
I have one wage type 4113 which was linked to vendor account. I changed the link from vendor to balance sheet account and specified new GL 23206 for my symbolic account of wage type 4113.
When I post the payroll result to FI after this change. I got this error.
Regards,
Waqas Rashid

Selection screen fields order in report painter report..

hi experts,
i have a problem with selection screen fields order in report painter report.
Actually in report painter report selection screen order is different compare to report writer report selection screen.
how should i get the same selection screen fields order For Report painter report compare to Report Writer report ?
For example, Report Writer selection screen order is:
ledger:
company code:
period:
current fiscal year:
previous fiscal yer:
previous quarter end period:
where as Report Painter selection screen order is:
ledger:
previous fis year:
current fis year:
company code:
period:
previous quarter end period:
please help me regarding with this.
Thanks and Regards,
NAGARJUNA.

hi nagarjun,
Go to Sq01, select the query and goto to change mode.go to the next screens till u reach Selection fields. Here u enter the NO field in the sequence which u want ot appear in the selection screen and it is done. Save and execute.
Ex:
Selection fields No
Exclude Cancelled Lots 5
Material number 1
Plant 2
Material type 3
Inspection Lot Origin 4
Regards,
Lokesh

Need to setup Premiere CS6 sequence for two file types with different field orders

I have a client who has shot video for me using two cameras, one camera was set to progressive, and the other to interlaced upper field first. I need to use both file types in the edit and have been struggling to set up the sequence to get the best look for the end product, a DVD. I have several videos to do for her that were all shot in the same way, so I need a solution!
I would appreciate help figuring out how to set up this work flow from beginning to end.
Should I convert one of the files from the beginning so they match field orders before going into a sequence? Or do I just need to do some adjusting of the files once they are in the sequence? Is it just as simple as changing the transcode settings to favor the upper field first? I'm definitely having issues once the video is transcoded in Encore and you can see a lot of jagged edges and lines especially during movement. My client isn't happy and I've tried several workarounds, but to no avail.
Here are the two file types I have:
File extension: .MOV
H.264, 1920x1080, Linear PCM, 16 bit little-endian signed integer, 48000 Hz, stereo
FPS 29.97
No Fields: Progressive Scan
File extension: .MTS (my Mac finder can't read these files, but they are read in Premiere)
Image Size: 1920 x 1080
Frame Rate: 29.97
Source Audio Format: 48000 Hz - compressed - 6 channels
Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1.0
Upper Field First
I am using Adobe Premiere CS 6.0.2
Encore 6.0.1
Media Encoder 6.0.2.81
I am running it on an iMac 27-inch, Mid 2011
with Mac OS X Lion 10.7.5
Processor 3.4 GHz Intel Core i7
Graphics AMD Radeon HD 6970M 1024 MB
I've just been setting the sequence to match the .MOV files since they look much better than the .MTS files. I've done the opposite as well, setting the sequence to match the .MTS files and it doesn't seem to help. I've also changed the field order of the files once they are in the sequence by changing the field options and have tried converting the .MTS files in the Media Encoder, but nothing I've done has worked.
Any help would be so appreciated! The client I have is a photographer, so she wasn't aware of this issue when she first shot these videos. So I have 10 videos with these issues I need to get back to her, hopefully issue free! I'm struggling as an editor because my last job I was using FCP and was working with videographers who knew what they were doing, so I've never faced such problems before. Plus I'm new to the Adobe software. Not a good combination. Please forgive me if I didn't give all the information you need. I will happily respond with whatever more information you may need to help me out!
~KTrouper

I wonder if you could do your edit ignoring any visual issues of the interlaced footage but keeping the different sources separate ( checkerboard edit Vid 1/ Vid 2 )
Lock it down then export the interlaced part of the edit as a Digital Intermediate.
Maybe Export the other source as well to the same codec. DI
Bring them back together in a New Sequence. You wold have to deal with the black spacing.

Field Order on Final Burn

Hello,
What I did. I made video in PP CS3. Exported to mpeg-2 using adobe media encoder. Made dvd from adobce encore cs3. I then deleted the original dv-avi (need to buy more storage but didn't have time); DVD Played fine no problems; I then saw I needed to fix an error. So I only had the mpeg-2 file. Went back in PPcs3 and fixed the error. Used Adobe media encoder again to export as mpeg-2 again all default didn't change field order. When I compile the DVD the second time around in Encore cs3 the dvd plays back like I chose to do upper field first this time. Fast motion is strobe like.
Does re-encoding an mpeg-2 file cause problems??
Any suggestions or comments would be great for this newbie.
Thanks

Burning to DVD would not cause this to occur.
Recompressing to MPEG-2 is the most likely the source of the trouble. It sounds as simple as the field order not matching. You could start by trying to find the field order of the source and the MPEG-2 setting.

Motion and Field Order Stupidness

I'll try not to rant too much.
But what is up with Motion and working with DV NTSC video with fields? I have had nothing but headaches. I am a long time After Effects user, and I was glad to get Motion 2 (2.1.2), but I've just spent the last hour and half trying to get it to render DV NTSC video correctly without it getting field jitter on a project that needed to be over-nighted to go on the air. And it still doesn't look totally correct. (I'm not a happy camper)
Here's the deal, I took DV captured footage from FCP using the standard DV/DVCPRO - NTSC preset I've used forever. That footage was imported into a Motion project that was using its own NTSC DV project preset (all lower fields -even). But every time I'd play it back in Motion, or render it out (still using the NTSC DV render preset), I get serious field jitter on DV output.
Eventually I found under the Inspector-Media tabs that the footage was imported as Field Order- None (why I have not a clue). So I changed all the footage to Lower (even). That worked on any footage where size, rotation, or position was not changed. If any of those attributes was changed I get the field order jitter. It seems to me that Motion is not able to render out field ordered video properly and the quality looks poor or jittery.
Now that might seem hasty to say that, but I've been doing the same thing in AE for years, never having to change the imported field order to get it to look right and I have always captured, imported, work with projects and rendered using the QT DV/DVCPRO - NTSC presets.
Can someone help me because I can not believe I've had to change so many setting to try to get video to look right from Motion while using the same settings during the entire workflow.
Thanks, and sorry for the rant.
PowerMac Dual 2.0 G5, PowerMac Dual 1.42 G4, iBook 800 G3, Mac mini 1.42 G4 Mac OS X (10.4.7)

Hey, thanks for the replys.
[....you might want to try using the animation codec..millions of colors...]
I gave that a shot this morning, and I'm having the same problem. See what's going on now is after changing the Field Order to even for the footage media, all of it looks decent except for the ones on an angle, croped or resized and I see this in both Motion's preview and the final render when I play it back in FCP. So as per your suggestion I rendered with the animation codec (filed rendering) and it still has it. Its just odd to me that it does that, like I said before I've worked in the DV/DVCPRO - NTSC codec with FCP and AE for years with no quality degrade. The reason I have always do that is that's what I capture to and that what my FCP project is so to keep it all consistant. BTW, this is going network and cable, no different than I usually do.
[...are you enabling field rendering in the Canvas or in the export settings?]
Yes I am, sorry, I should have pointed that out. I have done combinations of different QT codecs with and without field rendering turned on to see different results. None of course resolves this issue.
Thanks
PowerMac Dual 2.0 G5, PowerMac Dual 1.42 G4, iBook 800 G3, Mac mini 1.42 G4 Mac OS X (10.4.7)

Field order question

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