FireWire 800 bug in 10.4.9, 10.4.10 and higher? Leopard?

Hi there,
I'm not completely sure if this topic belongs in here, so sorry if it doesn't. I hope Apple reads these forums too...
I have a MacBook Pro 2.33 Ghz 15", running Tiger 10.4.10.
I bought a LaCie d2 Quadra 500 GB to be able to backup my data better and faster with FireWire 800. But while my other 2 LaCie-drives work perfectly through FW 800, this drive doesn't mount and Tiger tells me to initialize it, because it can't be read. Initializing doesn't help, DiskUtility isn't able to do anything with the drive and DiskWarrior tells me there's something wrong with the drive.
The drive works perfectly through both FireWire 400 and USB 2.0. When I boot my MacBook Pro from another external drive with Tiger 10.4.8, the drive also works perfectly through FireWire 800 and when I boot my MacBook Pro from the Installation-DVD.
I updated my other external drive to 10.4.9 and then the drive could not even be mounted when booted from the other external drive.
I had never tried something like the following before, but I tried to move some older extentions from 10.4.8 to 10.4.10 and was able to mount the drive through FW 800, but not without warnings that the extentions were not installed correctly. So I downloaded Pacifist and tried to see which extention would be the problem...
I have spent many many hours, but wasn't able to find the specific extention, but when I was about to give up, I used Pacifist to move the following extentions from my Installation-DVD to the system on my internal drive:
- IOFireWireAVC.kext
- IOFireWireFamily.kext
- IOFireWireIP.kext
- IOFireWireSBP2.kext
- IOFireWireSerialBusProtocolTransport.kext
- AppleFWAudio.kext
And 1 FrameWork:
- FWAUserLib.framework
And it worked. The drive shows up through FireWire 800 at last. While I'm very happy about it, I'm also affraid that the next update to 10.4.11 breaks it again... And what about Leopard...
Please Apple, will you please have a look at this, so that it works again with the latest updates and under Leopard, because I want to use this drive for Time Machine as soon as Leopard arrives. Thanks.
Best Regards,
JeePee

Welcome to Apple Discussions!
Why that probably works is that the installation DVD files are unalterable. Chances are the reason why your problem manifested itself in the first place is that your devices hooked up via Firewire either have a firmware update that is too old to be recognized, or data corruption in those particular files you pulled over. The updates themselves don't break Firewire. The vendors who haven't tested their firmware with the latest operating system is what breaks it, and corrupt data files break it. Trying to tell the difference between the two is difficult. LaCie's Mac support is firewire AT lacie.com. Contact them and ask if their drives that are your model have been tested to work with 10.4.10. If they have, then you have some evidence your files got corrupt somehow. If they haven't, you can be sure that they made a mistake in trying to follow specs with their last firmware update.

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Recording to external hard drives - Firewire 800 problems

Ok so i did post a similar thread on this in the "mac mini" part of the website so im very sorry for double posting but I thought since this problems pertains mostly to recording and specifically recording on garageband, that I would try posting here as well. Heres my deal:
I am a musician working with garageband and I have always been recording to my internal drive until recently. I was unaware until I read some posts here from the good people like you guys, that that is not a good idea to record to your internal drive. So, I got an external firewire 800 drive (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DGZ05A) and this cable (http://www.amazon.com/2M-Firewire-800-9PIN-Cable/dp/B000XQILWK/ref=pdbxgy_e_imgb). When I received it, I first used disk utility and reformatted it for Mac OS Extended Journaled. Then I proceeded to move a couple sample libraries and my entire "Garageband" folder (with my saved songs in it) to the external. I instantly knew something was wrong. The files were taking forever to get written over. It took about 15 mins for a 5GB folder to be moved over. I was already discouraged. Anyway, I plugged in the USB cable that came with the external (the drive has hook ups for both USB 2 and firewire 400/800) and tried moving the same files and it was MUCH faster. The same 5GB file was moved over in a matter of minutes.
I then tried recording to the drive (using firewire again) and it would hardly even PLAY the song without stopping every couple seconds (too many effects error, and yes ALL the tracks were locked). Tried to record as well and i'd get even less time before garageband would stop the song with the same error. So I disconnected firewire and went USB. Thru USB the song didnt stop once, not on playback OR recording. Then I moved the songs back to my internal and played them (and recorded) with no problem either.
I ran a couple tests on the drive using AJA system test and came back with these results:
Basic test of read/write speed using firewire 800:
write - 14/mb sec
read - 21/mb sec
then, using usb 2.0
write - 18/mb sec
read - 37/mb sec
both these connections seemed to be running slower then they should ..but at least the USB connection would actually let me play a song and record to it without stopping
I manually copied over a 2.04GB file and via firewire 800 connection it took 2 mins and 20 secs. Via the USB 2 connection it was 55 seconds! ..also, while i transfered the files i noticed that the USB transfer was nice and steady with tiny increments of the file being transferred. Firewire, however, was speedy then slow, speedy then slow. Very inconsistant transfer speed throughout the process. kind of choppy
So what gives? I cant figure out if I'm doing something wrong, or if my external HD is bad? Or the cable is bad? Or maybe the firewire port on my mac mini is bad (i've never used it before for anything other than this external drive). Or i'm thinking maybe my processor isnt strong/fast enough to record to the external firewire drive? Im working with a mac mini 120GB internal HD and the 2ghz intel core 2 duo with only 2GB ram (i know thats not ideal for recording and im planning to upgrade at some point, but i have been recording to the internal just fine with the RAM i have now and never had a problem until trying to record to the firewire drive). I was going to go out today and get a new cable and see if that was the cause of it. Anyway sorry for the book-length post! But PLEASE SOMEBODY help me here! ..as i said, im not very computer literate and only just started producing music using computers so please use dummy terms lol ..thanks in advance

Strictly my opinion, and more than happy to be educated with facts and convinced otherwise... but, there are no dangers.
Bottom line is this... does your specific computer setup encounter ANY problems during recording or editing with your chosen software and current workflow? If not, then there is nothing wrong. Simple as that. Further, if you are having problems, then its more than likely dealt with by upgrading RAM amount and internal HDD speed and size. If you have a slightly older machine that is pre FW800, you will find by bench marking your HDD's that an upgraded internal system HDD will significantly outperform any external HDD read/write spec's. Even with FW800, comparing apples with apples, your system HDD will more than likely have better spec's. Please however, do not take my word for this, but try it out for yourself. Make sure you have facts about your own system rather than believing my claims or anyone else's claims. I used Intech's Quickbench http://www.speedtools.com/QuickBench.html to get some facts about my machine.
There will be an argument made that you will be putting strain on your hard drive by recording to the system drive because it not only has to deal with this function but also with other functions related to your audio programs and OS. Apparently you may be working it on the 'hard' side and shorten its life span. Probably technically correct but practically speaking you will more than likely never even notice any such strain. If you are worried about a system HDD crash or death because you are working it too hard then the answer to this is a well planned back up regime. You should have one anyway, regardless of setup.

Firewire 800 not running as expected. VERY slow

Ok so this is my first post here. I looked all over google and various places but cannot find out whats going on (im also not very computer literate so please bear with me!). Heres my deal:
I am a musician working with garageband and I have always been recording to my internal drive until recently. I was unaware until I read some posts here from the good people like you guys, that that is not a good idea to record to your internal drive. So, I got an external firewire 800 drive (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DGZ05A) and this cable (http://www.amazon.com/2M-Firewire-800-9PIN-Cable/dp/B000XQILWK/ref=pdbxgy_e_imgb). When I received it, I first used disk utility and reformatted it for Mac OS Extended Journaled. Then I proceeded to move a couple sample libraries and my entire "Garageband" folder (with my saved songs in it) to the external. I instantly knew something was wrong. The files were taking forever to get written over. It took about 15 mins for a 5GB folder to be moved over. I was already discouraged. Anyway, I plugged in the USB cable that came with the external and tried moving the same files and it was MUCH faster. The same 5GB file was moved over in a matter of minutes.
I then tried recording to the drive (using firewire again) and it would hardly even PLAY the song without stopping every couple seconds (too many effects error, and yes ALL the tracks were locked). Tried to record as well and i'd get even less time before garageband would stop the song with the same error. So I disconnected firewire and went USB. Thru USB the song didnt stop once, not on playback OR recording. Then I moved the songs back to my internal and played them (and recorded) with no problem either. So what gives? I cant figure out if I'm doing something wrong, or if my external HD is bad? Or the cable is bad? Or maybe the firewire port on my mac mini is bad (i've never used it before for anything other than this external drive). Or i'm thinking maybe my processor isnt strong/fast enough to record to the external firewire drive? Im working with a mac mini 120GB internal HD and the 2ghz intel core 2 duo with only 2GB ram (i know thats not ideal for recording and im planning to upgrade at some point, but i have been recording to the internal just fine with the RAM i have now and never had a problem until trying to record to the firewire drive). I was going to go out today and get a new cable and see if that was the cause of it. Anyway sorry for the book-length post! But PLEASE SOMEBODY help me here! ..as i said, im not very computer literate and only just started producing music using computers so please use dummy terms lol ..thanks in advance
P.S. this is my first post so im sorry if I should've posted this in a different category.

Hi,
Are you using an audio Firewire 400 interface (daisy-chained through you external FW800 HDD) ?
I've same problem (mac mini June 2010) so I think it is a compatibility problem between the mac (perhaps only with mini) and some recent Firewire chipsets found in external HDD. I read somewhere that Apple does not support anymore PLX (that acquired Oxford) chipsets for external HDD connected to Mac Pro.
I tried then using the Sonnet Yin Yang adapter (to avoid daisy-chaining), however it is the same :
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=13360117#13360117
The problem does not happen when daisy-chaining through FW400 (from the audio interface to the HDD).
Using the external disk only (FW800), I get up to 60 Mbyte/s sequential write and up to 70 Mbyte/s sequential read (that is using xbench - in memory read, you shouldn't try between two disks as the slower will be the limiting factor). My external HDD is a WD Caviar blue so it also helps.

Firewire 800 External Hard Drive recomendations for recording

Ok so I posted a week or so ago about a bad experience I had with a firewire 800 external drive. Anyway, Im sending it back and getting a refund but I wanted to confer with you guys about a good, but cheaper (under $100 please) firewire 800 drive thats good for recording to. This will be my recording HD. Can anyone recommend some for me? and shooting a link to a place that sells it would be appreciated! ..and the more recommendations the better

Hi Veena, Welcome to Apple Discussions.
And you've tried choosing the volume and pressing the "Mount " icon on the tool bar of Disk Utility?
Have you shut down your Mac and disconnected your firewire cable from both ends and let it sit about ten minutes then reconnect and try. Also, it is important to disconnect the AC power to your Mac, this helps to reset the FireWire port(s).
Do you have TTP or DW, both of which you could use to try to mount it.
It is also possible that you have a bad cable or a bad port, do other FW devices work?
-mj
[email protected]

PowerBoook G4 as Target to MacPro (firewire 800 bearly faster than 400)

I have a MacPro Dual Xeon w/ Firewire 800 and a Powerbook 17" G4 also w/ Firewire 800. I set the G4 as a target and transfer a 4.07gb file. Took 7.42 minute via firewire 400 and 7.10mins via Firewire 800. Should I not expect a much better result?
Anyone, thanks.
John

He could have a bad 800 cable, or it is not configured to run at 800, but any time you have a scenario like hard drive - HDD controller - Bridge (I/O) - 800 controller - 800 cable - 800 controller - Bridge (I/O) - HDD controller - hard drive...... anything in the chain can be a bottleneck if not set correctly and/or is limited by its maximum I/O. If I were him, I'd run QuickBench on each hard drive to see what max it has, then check the train above for proper operation. You may be right that it should be faster, but only measuring each part will tell you if all is kosher.
Michael

No Firewire 800 input

Hi,
I currently have an iMac that I use to transport to my studio for tethering to my Hasselblad camera via a firewire 800. I am very keen to look at and probably purchase, the new imac due out soon but have just seen that it does not have the FW800 input.
Seeing as the Hasselblad only has this single output I wondered if it would work by using an adaptor cable and if so, would I be looking at the thunderbolt input or the USB 3.0
Is there going to be enough power to drive the camera and will htere be a speed drop by using the convertor.
The machine is totally useless to me if there is no solution.
I will of course, put this question to Hasselblad as they are going to have to come up with a resolution I feel however I thought it worth asking here first.
Many thanks
Jason

Has anyone had more experience on this situation yet, I am ready to purchase a new 27" iMac but am very concerned about the thunderbolt to FW800 adaptor not having enough power to tether the Hasselblad 50MP.
Can I get a powered hub to sort this out if I run into any problems, if so, what would people recommend?
Thanks
Jason

FireWire 800 and USB bus failure

I am trying to resolve an ongoing issue with my iMac. External storage devices will not stay mounted. I have had data corruption and several drive failures that I believe are attributable to the sudden loss of connection to the computer. It can not be that all my drives – there have been five – are faulty. My newest drive, an OWC Mercury Elite Pro connected to the FireWire 800 bus, is beginning to exhibit the same behavior, and this drive is less than a month old.
What possible explanations are there for a FireWire or USB bus to suddenly drop a connected hard drive?
Thanks in advance.

Simplest explanation? Your iMac has a hardware failure. Take it in for service. It's probably NOT a software issue but a hardware failure.
Can we assume you have tried new or different cables?

Firewire 800 Port back to life after power shutdown?

I experienced a strange event and would like to share it with you for feedback and comments.
During several days the external hard disk connected to the Firewire 800 port of my IMAC caused me increasingly problems, and eventually the disk would not mount at all on the desktop. I connected the disk to the FW800 port of my portable and the disk worked quite fine. I concluded that the FW800 port of the IMAC was damaged. I was preparing myself to contact Apple to get the IMAC repaired.
Then recently we had a general shutdown of power in our town, for several hours.
When the power came back, I had the idea to reconnect the external disk to the FW800 port, and miracle, the disk mounted immediately and has been working fine since.
Is is possible that the ports of the computer come back to life after a power shutdown? How is this possible?
Can I conclude that it is recommended to disconnect a computer from time to time, just to reset some parameters?

Yep, both USB and Firewire ports can get in into a "bad state" and only complete removal of power will reset those chip sets.
Unfortunately, when you power down the computer there is always a bit of power still applied to the motherboard to keep things alive and this usually includes powering the ports to do stuff like detect when a device is plugged in or wants to wake up the computer. The downside of this is when a bus/port chipset goes into a weird state, locks up, etc., simply power cycling (shutdown & restart) the computer won't work.
So first thing to try is resetting the chipset and to do this you have to power down the computer and completely unplug the computer from the wall power (unplug the power cord to your Mac). Also unplug everything from the Mac's ports (USB, FW, Ethernet, etc.) to make sure no parasitic power is still there to keep the chipset alive. Now let it sit for a minute (give those big power caps in there time to discharge). Now plug stuff back in & start up the Mac. Now see if your USB or Firewire ports work any better.
Even Apple acknowledges this occasional issue...
What to do if your computer won't recognize a FireWire or USB device
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1317?viewlocale=en_US
Best of luck!
Patrick

USb 2.0 or Firewire 800 FASTER?

I have a Quad G5 with 8 gigs RAM. I want to buy an external drive (LaCie) and notice the USB 2.0 is 100 cheaper than the triple inetrface. Is USB 2.0 slower or the same as Firewire 800?
It was my understanding USB 1.0 and Firewire 400 were the same transfer rate and USB 2.0 and Firewire 800 are the same rate?
However, I see specs stating that firewire 800 is much much much faster?
Thnaks everyone.

USB 2.0 has a data transmission rate of 480Mbps, while USB 1.1 transfers data at 12Mbps; real-world transmission rates for USB 2.0 will be slower than FireWire 400. FireWire 400 and 800 have a transmission rate equal to the number in the term. Basically, FireWire 800 is much faster then USB 2.0. See this page for more information.
(11826)

Firewire 800 / Crashing / Windows XP Pro

I have a brand new (bought 2 days ago) MacBook Pro 17. 10.5.6 with all updates applied. Using bootcamp assistant, I split the drive into 2 equal partitions and installed Windows XP, Service Pack 3, all current Windows updates applied (Partition formatted as NTFS). In setting up the back up, I'm having trouble with backup programs crashing while backing up to external hard drives (again, formatted as NTFS). The backups will be plugging along and then the system will just freeze completely, no keyboard, no mouse function and the only way to recover is to power off and restart. I've tried 2 different external drives (both LaCie), 2 different firewire 800 cables, 2 different backup programs (Norton Ghost 14 and SecondCopy). If I connect the same drives using USB cables, all works fine, albeit slower than firewire 800. I've even re-formatted both external drives as NTFS directly from Windows running in boot camp.
The same Firewire 800 cables are used to connect to external Mac volumes while backing up the Mac partition via TimeMachine and they work fine
Any ideas?
Thanks!

There are adapters. If you want drivers, I'd think Microsoft and Windows Update. Apple has a tech note about slow performance of FW800 (google is faster than Apple Search). But I thought 2008 ushered in somewhat better FW800 (for Mac Pro).
Personally, I stay away from LaCie. Sometimes that are firwmare updates for LaCie (all FW drive cases have to use a bridge).

Firewire 800 not powering OWC 100GB HD

My brother and I recently purchased an OWC 100GB hard drive with firewire 800 and usb 2.0. My hard drive is working perfectly, being bus powered through firewire 800. However his computer isn't powering up the hard drive. We both have the same laptop, powerbook 15' 1.5 ghz w/1gb ram. I plugged his external hd into my laptop and it powered up just fine. It seems the problem lies with his laptop's firewire 800 port. I repaired permission, checked system profile and it shows the firewire 800 port, and reinstalled the os x update 10.4.6. We also plugged in the supplied ac adapter for the external hd and it did work with his laptop. Has anyone had trouble with the firewire 800 port now powering devices? Everyone's help is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Try resetting your power management unit (PMU), directions are at http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=14449 That can sometimes fix that type of issue.

Firewire 800 on early Pro

Im going to buy a used MB Pro from a friend, its the early style, 1.83 GHz, dont know many other specs. I heard a rumor that those dont have the firewire 800. Just a couple questions. Is that true? Is it a big deal if it doesnt have it? What would I ever use it for in every day use? I currently have a powerbook g4 and I think it does have one but I've never used it.
So even though I dont currently use it now. If I get my buddies Pro for a good deal, does anyone see a reason where I would need and not have (if in fact they dont have them) one?
Thanks

FM 800 is the new apple FW, as they don't seem to support F400, which is a standart for a lot of numerical dv camera
I will not buy a fw800 only MBP...
So, what to say about your new MBP 1.83, the same as mine.
it's a good computer, with a lot of problems, depending on luck.
But, With it, you have a decent graphic card, you can have bootcamp, crossover, parallels, all which is good to run PC applications and games. impossible on G4.
FW400 let you connect a lot of numeric camera. It didn't have the USB 2.0 bugs, it's better for an external burner, HD.
As you have a G4 with a FW 400, it will let you easy transfer using the target mode.
more and more software are intel only...
((personal opinion, : your MBP 1.83 will still be working when Apple will have take out every firewire on her computer's so 400 or 800, anyway, it will die soon, except on some PC........))
A mbp 1.83 intel is faster than a G4, if you have a 2 Go ram.
first to check is temperature, smcfancontrols. if your fans don't make noise, I suggest you to let the rpm at 2000, one of the biggest issue was the GPU over heating and slowly dying...
Keep both, as G4 can save your life while using PPC apps which are no more supported on intel .
have fun !

IMac, Firewire 800 issue

I am using a 24-inch iMac with 1GB RAM, Intel Core 2 Duo Processor and running Mac OS X 10.4.11. Since I edit video, I am using Final Cut Pro HD and dealing with files that take up a large amount of space. The LaCie Rugged External Drive that I am using has a FireWire 800 Port, but when I plug in this way, the drive does not show up. The drive does however, work with the regular FireWire 400 Port. This is a problem since the external camera I am using for video capture requires a FireWire to DV cable, and I only have one 400 and one 800 port on the iMac. Using the camera or an external DV deck is also a problem in itself since it is not recognized in Final Cut whenever an external drive of any kind is plugged in. This happens with the LaCie and a Western Digital MyBook that I have. Strangely enough, the Western Digital sometimes does not work with a 400 cable, but works with 800. As soon as the drives are ejected, the camera is recognized. I was curious if someone had an answer to either of these issues, since I do not wish to use the Main Hard drive for these large video files. I am thinking it is some type of issue with the ports but I am not sure. Thank you in advance for any assistance you can provide.

I think that there are, in general, a number of issues with the FireWire drivers for the Intel Macs. I had submitted several bug reports with observations and logs of the behavior. I don't think it's the hardware since, if you, say, run a different operating system on the same machine, there are no issues with the drives or cameras (under Linux anyway, never tried Windows).
The behavior changed when I upgraded to Leopard from Tiger. In particular, I could daisy-chain the camera off a FW drive after the upgrade. However, FinalCut experiences more frame-drops on transferring DV video than it did in Tiger. iMovie does not drop any frames at all, and I suspect the two applications are using different frameworks/libraries for accessing the DV video stream. Whereas, under Linux, frames are never dropped.
I'd contact LaCie, though, about the drive not appearing. A lot of those problems stem from firmware problems on their drives (or at least have in the past). You might find a firmware update for your drive on their web-site that would fix the problem.
In the meantime, though, I still maintain that there are issues with FireWire on Intel Macs related to the FireWire drivers.

Can I power an external ST91000640NS using FireWire 800?

Hi,
I am going to buy a new 17" MacBook Pro soon and I've been doing research on how to customize it when I get it. I want to install my own SLC SSD as the internal drive because it's cheaper and has a longer life expectancy. Because of the limited capacity of SSDs these days, I am also going to be getting an external HDD to keep all my data that would not benefit greatly from SSD speeds, as well as for backups of everything on the internal SSD.
I wanted this external HDD to meet three criteria:
1TB capacity
7200rpm speed
2.5" size, so that I can use it without needing to plug it into a power socket
There aren't many options to choose from that meet those requirements. In fact, I only found one candidate, the “Seagate Constellation.2”. It looks like a good set of specs and Seagate is a reputable hard disk maker I've read, so I'm just about ready to buy one. My only point of concern is whether it can be powered and operated solely over FireWire, or if I would have to use a power adapter.
So my question is, can the 17" MBP (Late 2011) supply enough watts/volts/amps over FireWire 800 in order to power this Seagate disk? (Sorry for rambling too much)
I have looked at the spec sheet and read up on IEEE 1394, i.e. FireWire, and I wasn't able to come up with a definitive answer, and I'm not even confident about how these electronics operate (specifically if the watt/volt/ampere requirements have to be met precisely or if they can go over or under a little, or a lot). I hope someone helps me out here.
Now here are the relevant specs, from the ST91000640NS product page:
12V start max current
0.85A
5V start max current
0.51A
Average idle power
2.95W
Average operating power
5.43W
According to Wikipedia's article on IEEE 1394, FireWire can supply a maximum of 45W and 30V.
Apple's FireWire Ports Specifications article says:
Input voltage range
8 to 33 V
Input power
0.3 W
Output voltage range
12 V to 30 V (varies by product)
Output power
minimum of 7 W per port
The disk will be put in an OWC Mercury Elite Pro Mini enclosure, by the way. (Though I don't think that matters.)

Kappy may be right — he most often is. But the Constellation is an enterprise drive designed for continuous use in servers, not for bus-powered use as an external drive. Among currently-available 1TB notebook drives, the kind that are normally used in bus-powered portable external enclosures, there are none that run at 7200 RPM, so I assume that's why you've settled on the Constellation. My concern about your plan is twofold: first, the drive is 15mm high. Will it fit in the enclosure you've selected? Ask OWC. And second, because the Constellation is normally run on AC power without any amperage ceiling that it's likely to exceed, I wonder whether during spinup or heavy usage it will occasionally draw more power than your FireWire bus can supply, causing it to be automatically powered off. I'm not conversant enough with electrical specs to be able to tell whether that's a possibility. Perhaps Kappy is.

FireWire 800 bug in 10.4.9, 10.4.10 and higher? Leopard?

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