Flickering video when daisy chaining firewire devices - HELP!
I have a 12" Powerbook with a single firewire 400 port, to which I have attached 2 daisy chained external hard drives. I have no problem capuring video off of my camcorder when I daisy chain it onto the end, but when the firewire is sending video the other way, as in the case of "printing" to tape, or using a television during editing, the audio clips and the video flickers substantially.
I've observed that connecting the camera directly to the computer eliminates this problem. Of course, it's a bit awkward, since I also eliminate my scratch disks (the external drives)! I've tried a firewire hub as well, and it seems that either the extra device or the doubled length of cable is interfering with the signal in such a way as to cause the flickering.
Has anyone else experienced this problem?
In any case, I'm thinking about buying a MacBook Pro. Assuming I run into the same problem, I was thinking about adding firewire buses with the Express Card slot. Has anyone done this, or have recommendations for firewire cards that reliably work with MBPs?
When you say 'flickering' what do you mean?
If the playback is stuttering, meaning the data rate is not being sustained, then it is a Firewire glitch. If the video is strobing or rolling then it a video issue with the timeline or the capture settings or something else.
We daisy chained Firewire back in the day on the first edition Powerbook (400Mhz with 10GB internal) and had no issues, that was 4-5 years ago, so your PB12 should be fine with this.
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Thunderbolt to firewire adaptor does not work when daisy chaining firewire devices
Hi,
I just purchased the Thunderbolt to firewire adaptor for my new late 2012 iMac.
It works when connecting a single firewire device, but when I daisy chain another drive, the first drive disconnects and nothing mounts.
I am trying a Hitachi G-Raid and a couple of WD My Studio II hard drives. They all work when connected directly to the adaptor, but not when more than one drive if daisy chained with firewire.
Has anyone got firewire daisy-chaining working with a thunderbolt adaptor? (just to clarify I am not refering to thunderbolt daisy chaining, as the adaptor is an end-of-chain thunderbolt device).
ThanksYikes, that's sad to hear.
I can't test it, no TB here, but are all these drives self AC powered, ie. no bus powered drives? -
Daisy-chaining firewire devices on iMac
I have an intel-based iMac which I have a Lacie HD connected to the 800 FW port (that's connected to Time Machine) and I have a Lacie HD, a Hitachi HD, an eyeTV 200 unit and Lacie d2 DVD-RW drive daisy-chained on the 400 FW port. When I attempt to copy a DVD (of my own making, not a commercial DVD) using the Lacie DVD burner and the internal DVD burner, I get a error message saying the connection was interrupted.
What I'm wondering is if I need to string these devices in a particular order or is there some sort of firewire hub I can buy to connect these devices to the iMac, since it only has one FW 400 port?
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
MikeI bought a Belkin FW hub and haven't had a problem with it:
http://www.buy.com/prod/belkin-6-port-firewire-hub-6-x-6-pin-firewire-ieee-1394a -firewire-400/q/loc/101/201955859.html
My only complaint about it would be that it is extremely light - so light that it doesn't like to stay in one spot and the FW cable connecting it to the computer seems to drag it off the shelf, but maybe if all or most of the ports are being used at the same time (which I haven't tried), it'll stay in place. -
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Now that I bought a firewire Audio interface (the Presonus Inspire), I am wondering how to plug in my external firewire HD. Both devices have two firewire sockets, I could daisy-chain them in two ways, right? (Couldn't get it to work today, but the cable that came with the interface seems to be faulty). Does the order in which I connect them matter?
Order shouldn't mater, I've run Computer->HD->FirePod as well as Computer->FirePod->HD
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Can't daisy-chain Firewire drives reliably from 1-port Powerbook. Hub??
I have found that I cannot get a daisy-chained Firewire drive to mount more than 50% of the time. This problem doesn't happen with Tiger with the same drives. I have tried 4 different brands of late-model Firewire drives (Iomega, Smartdisk, Maxtor, and Seagate) with different cables and what happens is that a drive that is directly attached to the 12" Powerbook will mount, but the second chained drive fails to mount a majority of the time. Since I only have one Firewire port, this is preventing me from using more than one drive at a time, and I lost two Firewire drives to corruption today. Three out of four partitions lost contained bootable backups of Leopard and Tiger. Ouch!
This issue could prevent from using Leopard with my Powerbook, which is supposed to be Leopard-compatible. I can't remake the clones too easily with only being able to attach one drive at a time. I am thinking I will order a Firewire hub and try that, but I am not sure if that would be a solution, and I am wondering why I can always daisy-chain under Tiger, and not under Leopard. Does anyone have experience with Firewire hubs and Firewire operation details? Will I be able to get reliable Firewire with a hub?I have exactly the same problem !
I have found this :
Using Multiple FireWire Devices at the Same Time
Power Macintosh computers can transfer perfect digital video (DV) on FireWire when no other devices are using the FireWire bus. If you have problems transferring digital video, make certain that no other FireWire devices are being used at the same time. Turning on a DV camera that is already connected may cause a FireWire hard disk to stop working. If this happens, turn off the camera and verify that the hard disk has recovered. Then unplug the FireWire cable from the camera, turn the camera on, and reconnect the FireWire cable to the camera. Check with the hard disk vendor for a possible firmware update to prevent this problem.
here:
http://www.2ndwave.com/firewire.asp
At the moment I can't upset what I'm doing to test it but I intend to do that as soon as I finish copying transferring...
I have the following device attached to different firewire ports:
a firewire video device connecting my G5 Desktop to the TV screen
a firewire ibot
I thought I would give u a head start -
Does daisy chained firewires make performance drop?
Hi all, just looking for a quick answer by someone who knows what they're talking about. Will daisy chaining firewire 400 drives together on a Mac or PC create a performance drop? I'm editing a project using 2 daisy chained drives at the moment with media on both. My co-worker claims it will slow down the computer's access to the media, I say it won't. Neither of us has any hard evidence and a quick google search doesn't turn up anything substantial either. What I'm looking for is hard engineering evidence. Thanks!
The firewire protocol allows for 63 or so devices to be chained together.
Running two FW400 devices should not be an issue. I've run up to a eight on chain in the past.
Still, be aware that some drives do not play well with other drives on the same chain. I have a G-RAID 500GB drive that tanks when there is another drive connected. It runs fine when it is the only drive on the bus.
If you are curious, go to the AJA website and find the "AJA System Test" app. It is a disk drive throughput test. Connect your drives in various configurations and see what happens.
Good luck,
x -
Can 2 daisy-chained firewire-800 drives be connected to 1 Thunderbolt-to-Firewire adapter?
Nightwatch (NL) wrote:
Thanks Steve!
One more question: Stayed throughput speeds more or less the same as original Firewire (since all my movies are on external disks) or has it become significantly slower?
I haven't done a careful side by side quantitative comparison of what I had on the older Macbook Pro (which had three Firewire800 disks chained together via FW800) versus the new Macbook Pro (which has thunderbolt into which I have connected three FW800 drives daisy chained via the adaptor), mainly because my employer supplied me with these computers and required I turn in the old one when they replenished it with the new one. However, I can say this -- one of the FW800 externals is used for Time Machine, another for making entire disk clones, and the third is for misc storage. I have seen Time Machine start up during a disk clone (with SuperDuper) and there seems to be no impact. The disk cloning is generally pretty intensive on disk and cpu resources, but thunderbolt seems to have a much bigger capacity for throughput than firewire and hence can apparently accommodate multiple streams of FW800 data going back and forth with no apparent impact on each other. The main limit seems to be the FW800 speed itself, not thunderbolt. I see ~ 60 MB/s or more which is as much as I have ever seen on FW800. Ultimately, the ideal setup will be thunderbolt drives daisy chained together, I would expect hundreds of MB/s, but I don't see many of these thunderbolt drives on the market yet. Even better would be solid state drives ... -
Any Limit to Daisy Chaining FW800 devices
From a review of previous posts, it looks like daisy chaining FW800 devices work well. I have a 1TB OWC FW drive connected to the only FW800 port my iMac has, and I use it for Time Machine. I am planning to add a second 1TB OWC by connecting it to the first drive (which has two FW800 ports. I will then, on occasion, connect a video camera to the second drive, also via FW.
Anything wrong with that? Is there a limit to the number of devices I may daisy chain?
Thanks.Hi Richard
+"Fire Wire can work with up to 63 devices on a bus."+ However, +"The number of bus-powered devices you can connect depends on the amount of power available from the computer, and the amount of power required by each device."+
see > http://support.apple.com/kb/TA26476
You should be fine!
Dennis -
If I load a video on a nano to give out at a business conference can recipients see the video when they open the device? I was told it will wipe when a new user opens the device.
No, it will wipe it when they try to connect it to a computer and set it up under their own Apple ID. When they turn on the device the first time without connecting it to anything they will be able to see the video.
-
Firewire drives work individually; fail when daisy chained
I have 3 FW400 drives daisy-chained. All was fine until a couple of weeks ago when I started having problems with drives randomly freezing up or unmounting, especially when writing large amounts of data (e.g., during a backup.)
Despite multiple repairs with Disk Utility, running Disk Warrior & reformatting one of the drives, the problem continues.
But--each drive works fine when connected directly to the Mac.
-Does this indicate a problem with the chipset in one of the drives? (I already ran Hardware Test on my G5.)
-Would a Firewire hub solve this problem?I have seen this problem before. It could be a chipset failure but it may be that each of the chipsets has the same ID. This causes problems with connecting them all at once. It seems to me that recent changes in Mac OS X can cause FW enclosures with the same ID to have problems connecting at the same time.
One way you can verify this is if the enclosures also have USB 2.0 connections you will find they work with one on FireWire and the other two on USB.
If an ID problem is your situation, even a hub will not help. If you have a friend with a hub or you have a WiebeTech Maxelerate you can use its hub to verify if a hub will work or not.
http://www.amug.org/amug-web/html/amug/reviews/articles/wiebetech/max/
You might want to contact the FW enclosure manufacturer and see what they believe the issue is. Quite frankly, if you need to use more than a single enclosure or hard drive at a time I would consider external SATA. It is a lot more reliable for me.
Have fun,
Michael -
Daisy chaining firewire 800 and 400 devices
I am considering purchasing a blue-ray DVD recorder that has two 800 ports and one 400 port. My sony video camera has a firewire 400 connection and I am wondering whether that camera cable may be used to import video using my 400 cable connected to the 400 port. One 800 port would be connected to the computer. Or should I purchase a firewire800 to 400 (4 pin) cable and use the second 800 port on the recorder, or go direct from the computer swapping the cables when importing video?
Hi Charles
If your using the Core Duo with 2 400 ports listed in your profile, then you might be better off just connecting the player up 400 and then using the second 400 port for the camera. If however we are talking about a newer iMac, one with a single 800 port then you will want to connect the recorder up 800 and then the camera up 400 to that.
Also see > http://support.apple.com/kb/TA26476
Dennis -
Daisy-chain Firewire 800 versus USB
Hi. I have an external drive (drive A) connected to my MPB via Firewire 800. I have my iTunes media library on this drive (movies, TV shows, music etc). When I watch a movie on my Apple TV, the content is being streamed from this drive via my MBP to the Apple TV. This works fine.
I also have a second external drive (drive B) that I use only as a back-up for drive A. I use Carbon Copy Cloner to back up drive A onto drive B. I can connect drive B in one of two ways: Option #1 is to connect drive B directly to my MBP via USB (USD 2.0). This is how I currently have it connected. Option #2 is to connect drive B to drive A via a Firewire 800 cable, daisy-chaining the two drives.
Two questions:
1. Which option will give me better performance when backing up drive A to drive B?
2. If I am watching a movie on Apple TV (streaming from drive A) at the same time that I am backing up drive A to drive B, will option #2 affect streaming of the movie?
Thank youHave you Shut down your Mac and disconnected your firewire cable from both ends and let it sit about ten minutes then reconnect and try. Also, it is important to disconnect the AC power to your Mac, this helps to reset the FireWire port(s).
Have you checked to see if Disk Utility sees it/ can mount it?
Do you have TechTool Pro or DiskWarrior, both of which you could use to try to mount it.
It is also possible that you have a bad cable or a bad port, do other FW devices work?
-mj -
Does daisy chaining Firewire 800 drives reduce performance?
Hello,
Based on the recommendation of a very knowledgable Apple Cert. Instructor, I learnt that a very good drive configuration for editing in FCPX is to have 3 separate drives: Boot disk, Events, and Projects. The reason, I suppose, for having the Events and Projects folders on separate drives is because FCPX is constanty reading and writing data into those 2 databases, which would mean that having both databases on one drive strains performance since the drive would have to write all edit changes constantly in the projects folder while reading video footage constantly from the events folder.
That sounds logical so I'll accept it as being true, but here's the intro to my question: I have an iMac (see the specs below) with 1 firewire 800 port, and my extra 2 drives would need to be daisy chained (FW800) to share the 1 port.
1. Does the communication to the two drives suffer for being daisy chained into 1 port, i.e. is the 800Mb/s transfer rate halved between the 2 drives or is full 800 to both at the same time?
2. Does the computer handle the communication with the 2 FW drives via that 1 port evenly so that I takes full advantage of having separate physical disks dedicated to just reading and writing Media and Project data?
It might seem riduculous to go to such Media Management extremes, but FCPX seems to struggle when I get deep into a project and the performance gets sluggish. that's why I'm trying to optimize the workflow.
Thank you,
Reynaldo
System specs: 27" iMac (mid 2010) 2.8Ghz quad-core i5, 8GB RAM, ATI Radeon 5750 with 1GB GDDR5 Memory
External Drives: LaCie D2 Quadra 2TB 7200RPM and Lacie D2 Quadra 3TB 7200RPMIf all the devices in the chain are FW800 then there will be no degradation.
If any of the devices in the chain are FW400 then complete chain drops to FW400 performance.
Allan -
Can You Daisy Chain Firewire 400 and 800 Mixed?
I would like to purchase an External Drive. I'm looking at a FW800. What I'm wondering is, Can I daisy chain devices mixed in.
I Want to run a FW800 Bilingual cable from my Powerbook to the External Enclosure. From the Ext. Enclosure, I'd like to have take my second FW800 port and take a cable that converts Firewire 800 to Firewire 400 and plug in another item. Is this possible?
Can I mix and match FW devices using separate protocol in a daisy chain configuration?Russ,
Yes, it is possible. I have a drive that works on FW800, FW400, or USB2. Connected to the second FW800 port on that, I have an adaptor cable, a FW400 cable to a FW400 drive, and another FW400 drive connected to that . All 3 drives are on the desktop of my PowerBook. When I read your post, I had the only first drive connected to the iBook with USB2.
The only problem I've run into was trying to copy a 200G drive on FW800 to a 250G drive on the FW400 port on the PowerBook. Working overnight, it managed to copy ONE Gigabyte! I hooked them up as they are now, and copied the whole shebang in about 45 minutes
I picked up an empty drive case, 800/400/USB2 combo from OWC and a 250G Maxtor drive at CompUSA for about $100 less than I could get a 250 FW800 drive anyplace. http://www.macsales.com -
Mountain Lion crashes when plugging in firewire device.
I am running Mountain Lion (10.8.2) on an Early 2008 Mac Pro. Everytime I plug in a firewire camera to capture video the OS crashes and reboots my machine. This also happens on my late 2011 MacBook Pro. Any help is appreciated.
Here is the crash report:
Interval Since Last Panic Report: 254878 sec
Panics Since Last Report: 1
Anonymous UUID: C0397782-6778-A6D2-BFD3-9128AE02CB8D
Thu Sep 27 11:39:39 2012
panic(cpu 4 caller 0xffffff80042b83c9): "Double fault at 0xffffff7f849187da, registers:\n" "CR0: 0x000000008001003b, CR2: 0xffffff80d4be3e38, CR3: 0x00000000066d0000, CR4: 0x0000000000000660\n" "RAX: 0x00000000fffffff0, RBX: 0xffffffffffffffef, RCX: 0x000000000000001c, RDX: 0x0000000000000000\n" "RSP: 0xffffff80d4be3e40, RBP: 0xffffff81d4be3e90, RSI: 0xffffff81d4be3e04, RDI: 0xfffffffffffffff0\n" "R8: 0x0000000000000004, R9: 0x7ffffffffffffffe, R10: 0x00000000ffffffff, R11: 0x00000000ffffff80\n" "R12: 0xffffff80262a6279, R13: 0xffffff81d4be3ef0, R14: 0xffffff81d4be3ef0, R15: 0xffffff8040de3980\n" "RFL: 0x0000000000010206, RIP: 0xffffff7f849187da, CS: 0x0000000000000008, SS: 0x0000000000000010\n" "Error code: 0x0000000000000000\n"@/SourceCache/xnu/xnu-2050.18.24/osfmk/i386/trap_native.c: 280
Backtrace (CPU 4), Frame : Return Address
0xffffff81cb44eec0 : 0xffffff800421d626
0xffffff81cb44ef30 : 0xffffff80042b83c9
0xffffff81cb44f0a0 : 0xffffff80042ceddf
0xffffff81d4be3e90 : 0xffffff7f8491803c
0xffffff81d4be3ed0 : 0xffffff7f8492459b
0xffffff81d4be3f40 : 0xffffff7f84923d1a
0xffffff81d4be3f90 : 0xffffff7f84923bde
0xffffff81d4be3fb0 : 0xffffff80042b26b7
Kernel Extensions in backtrace:
com.apple.iokit.IOFireWireFamily(4.5.5)[A045A111-194F-3E54-A63E-E015DC69B862]@0 xffffff7f84917000->0xffffff7f84989fff
BSD process name corresponding to current thread: kernel_task
Mac OS version:
12C54
Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 12.2.0: Sat Aug 25 00:48:52 PDT 2012; root:xnu-2050.18.24~1/RELEASE_X86_64
Kernel UUID: 69A5853F-375A-3EF4-9247-478FD0247333
Kernel slide: 0x0000000004000000
Kernel text base: 0xffffff8004200000
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System uptime in nanoseconds: 264156192824443
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last unloaded kext at 196734915261076: com.apple.driver.AppleUSBCDC 4.1.22 (addr 0xffffff7f8606c000, size 12288)
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com.apple.iokit.IOBluetoothSerialManager 4.0.9f33
com.apple.filesystems.autofs 3.0
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com.apple.security.quarantine 2
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com.apple.iokit.IOBluetoothFamily 4.0.9f33
com.apple.driver.AppleSMC 3.1.4d2
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com.apple.iokit.IONDRVSupport 2.3.5
com.apple.iokit.IOGraphicsFamily 2.3.5
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com.apple.driver.AppleUSBComposite 5.2.5
com.apple.iokit.IOSCSIMultimediaCommandsDevice 3.5.1
com.apple.iokit.IOBDStorageFamily 1.7
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Graphics: ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT, ATI Radeon HD 2600, PCIe, 256 MB
Memory Module: DIMM Riser B/DIMM 1, 2 GB, DDR2 FB-DIMM, 800 MHz, 0x02BA, 0x202020202020202020202020202020202020
Memory Module: DIMM Riser B/DIMM 2, 2 GB, DDR2 FB-DIMM, 800 MHz, 0x02BA, 0x202020202020202020202020202020202020
Memory Module: DIMM Riser A/DIMM 1, 2 GB, DDR2 FB-DIMM, 800 MHz, 0x02BA, 0x202020202020202020202020202020202020
Memory Module: DIMM Riser A/DIMM 2, 2 GB, DDR2 FB-DIMM, 800 MHz, 0x02BA, 0x202020202020202020202020202020202020
Memory Module: DIMM Riser B/DIMM 3, 2 GB, DDR2 FB-DIMM, 800 MHz, 0x02BA, 0x202020202020202020202020202020202020
Memory Module: DIMM Riser B/DIMM 4, 2 GB, DDR2 FB-DIMM, 800 MHz, 0x02BA, 0x202020202020202020202020202020202020
Memory Module: DIMM Riser A/DIMM 3, 2 GB, DDR2 FB-DIMM, 800 MHz, 0x02BA, 0x202020202020202020202020202020202020
Memory Module: DIMM Riser A/DIMM 4, 2 GB, DDR2 FB-DIMM, 800 MHz, 0x02BA, 0x202020202020202020202020202020202020
Bluetooth: Version 4.0.9f33 10885, 2 service, 18 devices, 1 incoming serial ports
Network Service: Ethernet 1, Ethernet, en0
Network Service: Ethernet 2, Ethernet, en1
PCI Card: ATI Radeon HD 2600, sppci_displaycontroller, Slot-1
Serial ATA Device: Hitachi HDS721010KLA330, 1 TB
Serial ATA Device: Hitachi HDS722020ALA330, 2 TB
Serial ATA Device: Hitachi HDS721010KLA330, 1 TB
Serial ATA Device: SAMSUNG HD103SI, 1 TB
Parallel ATA Device: PIONEER DVD-RW DVR-112D
Parallel ATA Device: PIONEER DVD-RW DVR-112D
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USB Device: Apple Cinema HD Display, apple_vendor_id, 0x9221, 0xfd520000 / 3
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FireWire Device: unknown_device, unknown_speedYes, I have tried different firewire cables and such. Removed my firewire hub, tried plugging into the actual ports on the MacPro and plugging in the firewire ports on the back of my Cinema 30 display. I even bought a new firewire cable just to make sure. So for now I guess I am going to downgrade my MacMini to Snow Leopard and use that machine to do video capture.
So last night I removed the primary harddrive from the MacPro. I installed a new 1TB harddrive. Formatted that drive and did a clean install of Mountain Lion and ran all software updates. Crashes when I plugin my firewire cameras with no other software but the OS.
So then I reformatted the drive and did a clean install of Lion and did all software updates. Still crashes.
I formatted the drive for a third time, this time installing Snow Leopard. Did all software updates. Plugged in my cameras one at a time and no crash. I installed iLife '11 and was able to video capture with iMovie via the firewire port.
I am pretty convinced that my hardware (at least) is in working order, otherwise it would have crashed with Snow Leopard also (correct me if my conclusion is incorrect). So I am inclined to agree with you that I may have triggered a bug in the OS.
Thank you for your insights. How do I go about reporting this issue to the Apple Software Engineers?
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