Fog on Nikon Raw's

Hallo,
I just try out Adobe Lightroom. I've RAW pictures's from my Nikon D200.
When I import these RAWs the previews - I guess it's the embedded jpg's - have briliant colors, and look similar to those I see in e.g. ViewNX from Nikon. But as soon I will do some changes on a picture, Lightroom load's the RAW itself, and the briliant colors disapear, and some kind of grey fog is laying over the picture.
- I know that jpg's are often a little less briliant, but these differences I can see are too big
- I use AdobeRGB in my Nikon, is there an extra setting for the colorspace in Lightroom?
- I also use some extra color setting within the camera, but this should reflect in RAW and (preview) JPG in the same way.
- I import the pictures without extra changes from Lightroom
Can someone give me a hint, how I can get rid of the fog in my pictures?
Thanks for your help
Heiko

>When I import these RAWs the previews - I guess it's the embedded jpg's - have briliant colors, and look similar to those I see in e.g. ViewNX from Nikon. But as soon I will do some changes on a picture, Lightroom load's the RAW itself, and the briliant colors disapear, and some kind of grey fog is laying over the picture.
This is handled in the FAQ on top. When you import the first thing you see is the preview that your camera generated. The preview you see is not the correct one, it is just one that Nikon likes. Lightroom then does its own interpretation of the RAW data and does so by default in a very conservative manner, in contrast to the very aggressive rendering that Nikon likes to use. You can make develop presets that mimic Nikon's rendering if you like that, but since Nikon keeps its algorithm secret, there is no good way to do that absolutely.
> - I know that jpg's are often a little less briliant, but these differences I can see are too big
See above.
>- I use AdobeRGB in my Nikon, is there an extra setting for the colorspace in Lightroom?
No, Lightroom is a color managed app, which means that the source space of any file is immaterial. Also, RAW does NOT have a color space. Selecting this setting in the camera has no influence whatsoever on the nef file, except for the embedded jpeg preview and a metadata tag that only Nikon's app read to set the default conversion. Lightroom internally uses a linear gamma version of ProphotoRGB called melissa
which is wide enough (much wider than adobeRGB) to render any color a camera can capture. Bottom line, if you shoot RAW ignore this setting in the camera.
>- I also use some extra color setting within the camera, but this should reflect in RAW and (preview) JPG in the same way.
See above, these settings have no influence on the RAW data. The RAW just reflects the signal the sensor received during exposure. These settings are only used by the camera to render the jpeg embedded as a preview in the nef file.

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I recently bought Adobe Lightroom and I was surprised to notice some huge color differences compared to PhotoShop CS2.
Im using Nikon D80 and shooting RAW. I have calibrated semi-pro monitor.
The same RAW file opens in LightRoom pretty well until you get the rendering preview. Once the preview is done, the picture becomes desaturated in red and blue and has a green cast especially in the shadows with much lower contrast. If I use Edit in PhotoShop option, the picture becomes even worse (even more desaturated and greenish) when opens in PhotoShop. If I open the same RAW in PhotoShop directly (using the NEF plug-in, not CameraRaw!) everything is just fine. The picture looks as opened in Nikon Picture Project or as I saw it when I took the picture.
After doing some research, I think that my problem relates to the way that Adobe Camera RAW, Bridge and LightRoom open a Nikon sRGB 4.0.0.3001 (D80) raw file. However, all the things being equal, PhotoShop CS2 (using the NEF plug-in) renders the same colors as Picture Project does (and what I saw on my camera and in reality). I also noticed that choosing sRGB in Camera Raw bring the things closer to the Picture Project colors but far from identical. Anyways, there is no way to change anything in LightRoom, outer than manually twicking all colors until I think it looks good. Which, I think Is very subjective and is different for every picture.
Right now, my Creative Suite Color Settings is North America General Purpose 2 (synchronized for all CS applications) and no application asks me anything about changing the color profile when opening the file. I shoot (with D80) in raw, Normal camera mode (no saturation / contrast, color profile change). I opened the same file in all mentionned applications (LightRoom, CameraRaw from Bridge, PhotoShop and Picture Project) and save them as .jpeg (same size, dpi, etc.) without changing anything (no camera calibration in ACR or LR; no printer profile in PhotoShop). I sent the .jpegs to my local Costco and printed them on glossy paper. All of them printed the same way that they look on the screen. LR, ACR - desaturated on red&blue, color cast on green and low contrast, while great vivid colors and contrast from PhotoShop and Picture Project. For me it looks pretty much as Adobe applications convert Nikon sRGB into a very unappealing Adobe sRGB (and way different from what I saw in reality). I know this is very subjective; some people may argue that Nikon profile is too reddish and oversaturated. But I find the whole story rather unusual. They all work in the sRGB space and there shouldn't be any differences. I've done lot of testing with color profiles and replacing the Camera Raw plugin file format (common files) with Nicon plugins and vice-versa. But still the same result.
I create a User Profile in LightRoom and I get pretty decent colors now, but when I want to edit the file in PhotoShop (from LightRoom) I get the same green and desaturated version.
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>Regarding LR, what I'm looking here is a "factory made" solution; something that can give consistent results in the initial conversion (like Nikon plugin for PhotoShop, for e.g.)
The problem with that conversion is that you cannot change it. In lightroom you change the actual conversion parameters, which gives you far more leeway and allows for far better conversions in the end. Currently (this will change with Lightroom 2.0 apparently) the only recourse you have if you prefer Nikon's colors is to shoot jpeg, or run your NEFs through capture and create 16-bit tiffs. This is just the way it is. A hammer gives a different result than a screwdriver.
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Nikon's colors are far from colorimetrically correct which you can see in many tests. Here is an example for the D300: http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/D300/D300IMATEST.HTM It is off in the deep reds, the saturated blues, and the Olive-like colors. Profiling the camera does not help you get close to Nikon's colors, but it will get you closer to the ideal colors. I doubt it has been Adobe's goal to get close to the in-camera rendering with Lightroom upto 1.4. They profile all the cameras and make some value judgments on what is more important. Skin tones vs saturated colors etc just like Nikon does.
Regarding getting close to camera colors, there is a trick that you can do to get close to the camera jpeg that involves the ACR calibration scripts. You do need PS CS3 though.
>I find rather strange that apparently there is no way to get professional conversion. This is defying the main purpose of Color Profiling, I think.
Why is Nikon's conversion professional and Adobe's not? They are both just interpretations of the sensor data. Adobe's is actually colorimetrically more correct in many cases. Colorimetrically correct often means boring unfortunately. This has to do with the fact that our eyes are not color measurement devices but that we have brains interpreting the data. To get pleasing results, Color Profiling does not help as much as you'd like. My issue with the in-camera or Nikon software approach is that it locks you down creatively to the
creative choices the Nikon folks made. Now, be aware that in the Lightroom 2.0 forum the Adobe folks have hinted at major changes to the rendering engine that will bring colors closer to the vendor rendering. How they will do this is unknown right now.

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I followed the instructions to the letter, and nothing worked. I still got the wrong kind of file message. After I tried to use the plug-in, I could no longre open pages in IE or Firefox. I have to wipe my new computer and reinstall everything. This time, I made CS3 the first thing I installed, and followed the instruction again as follows:
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Happy New Year!
The Develop panel Tone settings in your Dec 31 screenshot show both the Highlights and Shadows controls set to negative values (-48 and -19). For most images (such as this model shot) they should be set to opposite values (-Highlights and +Shadows). To try and duplicate your issue I used negative values for both of these controls with a similar high contrast image. I noticed that the Shadows control becomes non-linear when both the Highlights and Shadows controls are set to negative values. As I moved the Shadows control from a positive value the Shadows clipping indicator comes ON as expected. Moving the Shadows control to a value caused the clipping indicator to turn OFF and moving it further negative caused it to turn back ON again.
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The Highlights & Shadows controls set just to the threshold of extinguishing the clipping indicators.
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SUGGESTION
Try one of the image files that exhibits this issue using the following PV2102 Tone control adjustment procedure:
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Is it possible to show Nikons raw files (.nef) in the organizer as thumbnails?

Hello
Is it possible to show Nikons raw files (.nef) in the organizer as thumbnails?
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When i open a Nikon Raw file in Camera Raw (Photosop CC) I notice a distinct color-difference between the integrated preview image in the Raw file and the camera Raw standard.
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Refers to Nikon D300 or D800 in Raw / Nef format.
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