Frame rates, judder, PAL and NTSC - expert advice needed please!

I have an NTSC high def camcorder. Because I live in England, I would prefer to make PAL DVDs from my home movies, if possible. My camera (Canon HF100) is AVCHD, and I thought this meant that once imported into iMovie, it was not 'true' NTSC. Have I misunderstood this? The reason I ask is that my recent iMovie 08 edits view perfectly on my Mac, but are slightly juddery when burned to a PAL DVD.
I have read on this forum about framerates, but I'm hoping the problem is still surmountable somehow. When I imported my footage into my Mac, I selected PAL even at that early stage, and all seemed to be well throughout the edit. The pictures and sound are perfectly synchronised, which I had heard could be a problem when moving between NTSC and PAL.
Do I really just have to go with NTSC all the way? Quite apart from its reputation for being Never Twice the Same Colour, it's not ideal if you're living in Europe because most TVs and DVD players are PAL.

the video standard conversion is no trivial task, a lot more than 'just' down-cascading 29.97 fps to 25fps (aside the 'unround' math, you have to convert resolution, color-schemes, etc) ... so, by any route it is IS a lossy process in terms of quality, or you use some 50k$ hardware
If your TV/DVD player supports it - stay NTSC ...
another route, I suggest when using iMHD6, is an export as dv-stream (NTSC) and using teh free app JES Deinterlacer for converting into dv-stream (PAL) ... JESDI does a better job, imho.
but...
the export as dv from within iM08 is again a lossy process, as we discussed early here at the boards.. so, you double the lossy process = no good idea.
stay NTSC...

Similar Messages

Question about changing frame rate from PAL to NTSC

Hi,
Usually, I would use JES Deinterlacer for changing the 25 fps of PAL into 29.97 NTSC.
Recently I've started shooting with Sony's EX-3, full HD (in PAL mode)
If I'm using JES Deinterlacer, the resolution would drop from 1920x1080 to 720x480 (adding 2 black rectangles to keep the 16:9 ratio)
With the 720x480 res I would need to choose 4:3 aspect in iDVD.
I'm somewhat confused here...Can I keep the original resolution of 1920x1080 and just use another software for changing the frame rate...then burn it with iDVD in widescreen 16:9? Is there anything like JES for that? Or does NTSC DVD means always 720x480?
Thanks a lot!
ymotion

You could try doing it in compressor>advanced format conversions. Personally I like taking it to a terranex, but I also have had GREAT success with Graeme Nattress's standards converter. You can google it, or search this forum for a link. It's cheap, only a hundred bucks or so.
1. Convert the footage pal to ntsc, no frame size change
2. Open compressor and select the appropriate setting for the length of your video. And also add the dolby audio setting. Don't forget the anamorphic settings noted above.
3. I don't remember anything at all about idvd, haven't used it since DVDSP came out. DVDSP allows you a whole host of display parameters and infinite customization for your projects. It'll only take you a couple of hours to figure it out, and those are hours well spent.

Expert Advice needed please.

Ok, so i have had over 30 phone calls to BT and after 6 weeks and a new contract i have exactly the same speed on my broadband as i had with my Old 20CN even now im on a new 21CN line.
For 3 years ive had about 6.5-7.0 MB download and 448 upoload.
I have now the same download and the upload is alot more near 1mb.
The only reason i need an explanation is i have had 2 engineer visits, on both occasions they stated that after a new contract and being put on the new 21CN network i should expect to get approx double my old speed , eg about 12 mb.
I had them check all my equipment etc, im connected directly into my master socket.
Ethernet cable etc.
I have had a stable connection at 6.5 mb for the last 11 days and i have just reset the Homehub(homehub 3) to see if it improved, it did go up to about 7mb.
I will list my details from the homehub below. I need someone to please explain why i cannot get speeds near my neighbours? I feel im being capped or is there another reason ??
Bear in mind i have just reset the hub after 11 days, i have had stable connections for sometimes 3 months without connection loss prior to this 21cn thingy.
ADSL Line Status
Connection Information
Line state:
Connected
Connection time:
0 days, 00:24:58
Downstream:
7.055 Mbps
Upstream:
1.125 Mbps
ADSL Settings
VPI/VCI:
0/38
Type:
PPPoA
Modulation:
G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type:
Fast
Noise margin (Down/Up):
6.1 dB / 6.1 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up):
34.5 dB / 19.1 dB
Output power (Down/Up):
20.2 dBm / 12.6 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up):
0 / 0
CRC Events (Down/Up):
25 / 32
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote):
0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote):
0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote):
0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up):
17 / 7
Error Seconds (Local/Remote):
20 / 0

You are only responsible from the master socket. When it enters your house, does it go via any intermediate connection blocks before it reaches your master socket?
The attenuation figure for 21CN equipment (ADSL2+) is calculated at a slightly higher frequency, so the loss tends to be slightly greater. Nothing to worry about, as ADSL2+ uses a much larger frequency range (up to 2MHz).
There are some useful help pages here, for BT Broadband customers only, on my personal website.
BT Broadband customers - help with broadband, WiFi, networking, e-mail and phones.

Recording both PAL and NTSC versions of same project

I am importing a series of movies to iMovie in PAL format. I understand that it automatically sets the format. What steps should I follow to ensure that I can have both versions of the same footage correctly (PAL and NTSC)? On my first attempt to record on iDVD I had not changed the setting to PAL (even though iMovie project is PAL). A warning message showed that there were conflicting formats but I recorded the DVD and now it works on my NTSC TV and DVD. Then I changed the iDVD setting to PAL and made another copy. When I check the DVD's under Window>Movie Info (Quicktime) they seem to be in the correct format. It happened by accident but I understand that you should export your movie from iMovie in the new converted format in order to record a DVD in such format. I accidentally bypassed that step and I wonder if the quality has been lowered. Has anyone experienced this also? Should I do the same to save me an extra step? Thanks for feedback on this.
PowerBook G4 Mac OS X (10.4.9)

The conversion from PAL to NTSC (or NTSC to PAL) is a non-trival task.
In the case of PAL to NTSC, not only must the frame size be changed from 720x576 pixels to 720x480 pixels (fairly easy resizing), but the frame rate must be changed from 25 frames/second to 29.97 frames/sec (this frame rate change is NOT easy). iDVD/QuickTime seem to simply duplicate an occasional frame to go from 25 to 29.97 fps (or delete an occasional frame going from 29.97 to 25 fps) - this technique can cause the converted movie to be rather jerky.
You will probably get a better conversion use JES Deinterlacer at http://www.xs4all.nl/~jeschot/home.html as mentioned by Bengt

PAL and NTSC

Please can someone help. I have been using iDVD 5.0.1 absolutely fine. No glitches. Burned a lovely DVD using iMovie and iDVD in PAL.
Now upgraded to iLife 06 and new iDVD. Using same old movie (made in iMovie 5.0.2) I get this error message all the time:-
TV Standard Conflict?
It seems that we are burning a NTSC movie on a PAL disc. Proceed with burning?
I have set my Preferences on PAL, I have set my Project Info on PAL. I can't find anything in iMovie to change to PAL and never had this problem in the older iDVD version.
I want to use the new iDVD but have had to go back and find the older app of iDVD to do the work I want.
Please can you tell me what to change to burn my dvd in PAL.
Thanks
Frances

In iMovie, there is something you can change to PAL.
When you first create a project, there is an options
tab. Click it, and a drop down menu comes up. There
are multiple options like "DV", and "iSight". Select
what you want it to be compatible with. Then, once
the main window comes up, there are multiple menus at
the top. I can't remember which one (I'm not on my
mac right now), but under one of them you can find
the Project info. You can then select the type of
project (NTSC or PAL) in there. There may be an
option when you first create the project, to select
this (once again, I can't remember; I'm not on my
mac).
Hope this helps.
On the face of it, you advice should help. I've just spent an hour getting frustrated in trying to get iMovie to create an empty project in PAL format.
The difficulty is caused by the appallingly poor labelling Apple has used in providing those options in Preferences. Yes, indeed I have the choice of 29.97 fps or 25 fps. Had Apple added something like 'for NTSC' 'for PAL', it would be much clearer for unwary users. Choices need to have some clues attached to them that can indicate the relevance of the choice to the user. I was looking for a choice relating to PAL and NTSC. I did not know that the fps options were essentially the same thing in different clothing.
The really irritating aspect to all of this is that the information in Help Viewer talks about the choice, but fails to mention how you can choose between the two systems.
I feel better now.
Power Mac G4 733 MHz Mac OS X (10.4.1)
IMac 2GHz Intel Mac OS X (10.4.7)

FCP to PC, Mac and Television Pal and NTSC

I am editing a DVD for a French dancer who wants to send out the footage as a promotional piece. Target is Europe, North and South America. PC, Mac and Television. When things looked OK on the Mac I burned a dvd from DVD studio Pro. Checked on two PC laptops, a PC tower, a pal system television with dvd player and my Mac tower and powerbook G4.
I have now been reading articles and talking with people about the difference between the gamma
of 1.8 for Mac and 2.2 for PC and 2.5 for television. CRT and LCDs. What is the best we can do today when editing for people who are going to receive and play on different machines?
The new Mac cinema display does not change every time I move my head like the less expensive
LCD monitor I used in France and the PC and Mac laptops. Is it recommended in the video editing
world to buy a pal and/or ntsc monitor to color correct for Pal and NTSC? Does one have to linearize in some way on both?
Both Pal and NTSC seem to play on all computers.
thanks for help
Bill

I'd just monitor it on a well calibrated external monitor and leave it at that.
If people will be playing it on a PC it will look like any other well calibrated thing would look on a PC and again on the mac.
If people thought PCs were too dark then they'd complain about them and never use them and you wouldn't have to ever worry about it... but they don't.
Just do a normal calibration and leave it at that. You'll kill yourself over EVERY combination!!
CaptM

Transferring the film to video best practice and combining PAL and NTSC

Could anyone help me with the following 2 questions that I was asked in our small school video lab, I don't really have much experience with negative film and NTSC. Thankyou so much.
1. "I may be going back to the film negative to cut it, based on the FCP EDL. This means that Final Cut has to maintain perfect synch. I know that with AVID, it's more reliable to transfer the film to video at 25 fps rather than 24 fps. Do you have any idea whether this is also the case with Final Cut??"
2. "Some of my source materials is on PAL and some is on NTSC. Is that going to be a nightmare?? Will I be able to convert from one to the other when I import?? Or will I need to get the NTSC miniDV tapes transfered to PAL so that your PAL deck can read them? "
we normally use PAL (In UK).

1. This is where Cinema Tools comes into play. It can conform your edit list from FCP back to film.
There is a wealth of information in the Cinama Tools handbook and Help menu item.
Someone else might be able to contribute more information, my experience with CT is very limited.
2. Some decks are switchable between PAL and NTSC. If yours can do this then you can capture your footage in a preliminary project and convert it for free with [JES Deinterlacer|http://www.xs4all.nl/~jeschot/home.html] which does a decent job or for $100 with [Natress Standards Conversion|http://www.nattress.com/Products/standardsconversion/standardsconver sion.htm] which does a very good job. Both will take some time, best to capture only what you really need.
The best possible conversion is done with dedicated hardware solutions such as those offered by Snell & Wilcox. Real time with excellent results. This would be the way to go if you have a lot of material or if your deck is not PAL - NTSC switchable.

DVD for Pal and NTSC on same disc

somebody told me it's possible to have pal and ntsc format on one single DVD. I'll be curious if it's possible, in DVDSP, you have to chose your DVD format before you make the authoring. Maybe make to VIDEO TS folder? somebody any experience/idea about that?

I guess you could have a double sided disc (DVD-10?) with PAL on one side and NTSC on the other but I don't think many people actually do this. And i think there were compatibility problems with DVD-10 discs when replicated.
Otherwise the answer is no

HDV & AVCHD independent of PAL and NTSC?

When purchasing a HDV or AVCHD camcorder do I need to care about PAL and NTSC standards?

Firstly, as pointed out in your other thread, you won't be able use it with iMovie 6.
PAL is what we use in Europe. NTSC is used in the USA. iMovie can import both.

Is there a difference between usa and uk apple tv in terms of Pal and ntsc or they both exactly the same ?

My mate just brought me back an apple TV 3 from America and I have plugged it into my pal projector but the colours look a bit weird, I wanted to know if im imagining it or is there a difference between the USA and UK apple TV. does one have pal and one have ntsc? if so how do I change the USA one to pal ?

Winston Churchill wrote:
I'm not sure what you are trying to tell us, there are no PAL and NTSC settings on the Apple TV, only 50/60 Hz and that has nothing to do with colour.
I thought the OP was asking WHAT the difference between PAL & NTSC is, that is why I posted the links I did.
Maybe I misunderstood the question.

I am using InDesign CS5. I have a body of text which is ranged left with tabbed indents. My client now wants the copy to be justifed, keeping the tabbed indents. Help and advice needed please!

I am using InDesign CS5. I have a body of text which is ranged left with tabbed indents. My client now wants the copy to be justifed, keeping the tabbed indents. Help and advice needed please!

Hi
That screen grab helps a lot. There’s a much easier way of doing what you’re doing.
Remove all your tabs and set the text in justified paragraphs.
I’ve typed in dummy text in the example I made below, but after “19.1” put in a space and put your blinking cursor after the space and before the ’N’ of ‘Notices'.
Then hold down the Command key and hit Backspace (on Mac at least - it’s the key between the Inverted commas/ apostrophe key and the return key).
The text will jump into place the way you want it to.
Hope that helps
Paul
PS You can set a tab, instead of using a space, in the description I gave above. So, after 19.1 or 19.2 or 19.185 etc etc insert a tab, then hit the Command Backspace after every paragraph number and they'll all line up exactly together. You'll find that editing text within the paragraphs
after you've set it will be LOADS easier this way.
You can put the tab anywhere you want it to be using 'Command-ShiftT' and putting a 'left align' tab just after the number. Just type the Command Backspace after the paragraph number and it'll work

PAL and NTSC project.

I was wondering if you could give me some advice on when/ how to best convert a project that I have to NTSC? At the moment it is editted as a PAL DV file, it's going to be formatted for DVD to be used both in Australia and in the US. Should I export the clips as NTSC from FCP then encode for DVD or should I let DVD Studio convert the project to NTSC from the PAL clips?

I’ve found the best overall PAL to NTSC Standards Conversion comes from Hanumang’s Compressor method:
"Load your DV PAL movie into Compressor 2, then choose
Advanced Format Conversions > DV NTSC from the settings.
Then, under the Frame Controls tab, alter your settings to:
Frame Controls: Custom
Resize Filter: Better (Linear Filter)
Output Fields: Bottom First
Deinterlace: Better Motion Adaptive
Adaptive Details: checked
Rate Conversion: Better (Motion Compensated)"
Results are stunning and once set up, it’s dead simple to use again because the settings are saved in Compressor.
The only downside is that it’s slower to process than other methods – but I find the results are better and I can use the Mac for other work whilst compressor’s working in the background.
A quicker (but I find, more fiddly) method is Graeme Nattress’ Standards Conversion:
http://www.nattress.com.
This method gives outstanding results too.
Andy
Quad 8GB. 250+500 HDs. G-Raid 1TB. NORTON. FCP 5.1.1. Shake 4.1. Sony HVR Z1E Mac OS X (10.4.7)
"I've taught you all I know, and still you know nothing".

A question about Frame Rate in FCPX and Motion 5

I use a Canon Legria HV40 shooting at a frame rate of 25fps
Is it essential to set the frame rate in Final Cut Pro X and Motion 5 to 25fps as well?
The reason I'm asking this is that I recently put together a series of clips shot with the HV40 in a FCPX project with the default settings of 60fps and it didn't seem to matter - everything worked as expected..

FCPX automatically 'confirms' any clip rate to the Projects settings.
But ... more rendering to do (=time), 'un-eveness' could lead to blur/quality loss (=how do you divide 25 frames over 60 equally?) ...
Best practice is: cam, project, delivery = same frame-rate.
Exception: for nice slow-mo: HFR on cam, low fps on Project ....

FCPX Mixed Frame Rates? 30fps AND 24fps in same project?

Just got done doing a multicam shoot for a large event where I had multiple people helping me out. We all shot at 1080p on a variety of Canon DSLR cameras and a Go Pro and a MiniDV Consumer Cam. I thought everyone got the memo to shoot at 30fps, and most everyone did, however one of my Canon cameras shot at 24fps. I know I've heard in the past mixing frame rates can cause issue in other programs, and I know FCPX can handle multiple frame rates, but what sort of trouble am I in for if I want to use footage from cameras using 30fps and a camera using 24fps in the same final product? Is the 24fps stuff going to choppy or weird if I use it in a 30fps sequence/project? My final deliverable at this point can be 30fps or 24fps, it is not stated and I want to make sure evrything looks good so what should I set my project settings for? Any ideas?

Ah - no - conforming simply resets the frame rate information. You should re-conform it back to 29.97...
Here's what I think you'll need to do. If the majority of your material is at 23.98, make your main sequence that. Cut everything at that 23.98 - you'll have to render any 29.97 material then, but when you've locked picture, look at the sections with 29.97 stuff and if it looks okay, just skip to making the DVD. If it doesn't, you'll have to insert a pulldown by exporting your sequence then bringing the quicktime back in, adding a pulldown with Shake ($500) or Nattress frame rate converter ($99) - OR try this - edit it to tape and a pulldown will be inserted, then recapture.
Once you have a 29.97 version of your clip, cut it into a 29.97 sequence and re-cut in the 29.97 material (now you won't need to render). Then export for your DVD.
Now - after all this, are you sure that your 30fps material is NOT 29.97 with a pulldown? Did you check this yet?
Patrick

How does one combine PAL and NTSC sequences to get a final exported QT movie?

I want to combine PAL footage and NTSC footage, shot on different cameras.
I found that I can create a PAL sequence by dragging a PAL clip to the "new sequence" icon.
BUt then, if I make two sequences, one in NTSC format, and the other in PAL format, can the¥ be exported as a single QT movie, ? or m2v ? or Mp4?

One generally doesn't. One shoots PAL for PAL delivery and ATSC for ATSC delivery, never the two shall meet

Frame rates, judder, PAL and NTSC - expert advice needed please!

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