Frozen battery-meter and clock
Every now and then (quite often, actually) - the menu-bar at the top of my screen freezes - making the clock stop and the battery-meter freeze. This means from time to time I have no idea that my battery is running out of power, and the macbook suddenly shuts down! The last time this happened it went on for about 3 hours without being able to update the battery-meter or clock!
What can I do?
I was able to figure out the cause and solve this issue on my end.
I opened Activity Monitor and saw "SystemUIServer (Not Responding)", so I looked up process:
http://guides.macrumors.com/SystemUIServer
Apparently, SystemUIServer manages the 'menu extras' on the upper right-hand side of the menu bar. There was also this other useful tidbit of information:
"A bad hardware state may cause the SystemUIServer to hang. Often, unplugging the external device will unhang the SystemUIServer"
"The SystemUIServer is owned by the logged in user (as opposed to root) and automatically restarts if it crashes or is force quit."
I had recently started using on of my older iPods again, so I guessed that maybe it was the device in a "bad hardware state", so I unplugged iPod (super old 3rd gen 15 gig...formatted originally on Windows...back when I was a PC)
Right away the SystemUIServer process unfroze in Activity Monitor and the upper right hand menue items are no longer hanging.
So my advice to others with this problem is to unplug devices from USB (iPod, etc...) and see if it eventually unfreezes.
I've seen iPods hang Mac OS during bootup as well, but this is a new one for me.
Similar Messages
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Inconsistent Battery Meter and Inconsistent Charging
Hello Guys
I am really tensed with the current situation with the iPod Touch 4G.1stly it drains battery very inconsistently.i.e it will be 70% approx(since no batt per) and then after 5 min it will be 55 with Wifi download.Again if i put it in sleep it will be back to 60%.
Also if i try to recalibrate the battery(ie drain the battery completely) the ipod will shut down and show the battery connect to pc symbol for 10 sec but then again after 30m sec it does turn on and i can use it for some time.Last night i was able to do this 25 times and then when finally it was unable to turn on i charged it for 10 sec and it did turn on with 30 percent battery.Strange.Can anyone help.I have done everything,Delete all apps.formatted 7 times in 1 week, disabled locations Servies,time zone etc but no good,I also set the ipod as new ipod touch.Is it that the ios 5.1 is affecting small number of users/ipod with this.And also when i took it to apple care they tested the Battery and they showed me that the Battery Test Passed.So they are unable to replace it.
Please help.Oh! You have created your own topic.
Unfortunately, because you then crashed in on two (quite old) posts, those are the ones I've read first. I've given you my considered response in one of those other posts... and some advice on how to get the best out of these forums! -
Battery, heat, and ringer issues
I recently purchased the Iphone 4s.. this is my first iphone
I did the update that Apple sent out to help the battery and it seems like it worse then before the update?? My phone has been off the charger for 45 minutes, I sent 1 text message, and had 1 phone call. The percentage is now at 87. It the last 2 minutes i have watched it go down 2%? Is this normal? Also, the phone gets REALLY hot...
If not, what do I do now??
Also, I keep missing phone calls because I don't hear the phone ring... but the ringer is all the way up..
Any help will be greatly appreciated!!mdorling wrote:
We've got the same issues, the BBM contacts went, now the BB won't charge ... we've tried all ways to get it to charge ... typically it's just over a month old so we can't get a full refund ... we are on here trying to find out what we need to do as we can't obtain a telephone number for BB customer services nor an email address only a tweet address which I haven't downloaded onto my handset. So am stuck!!! Any and all advice very gratefully received as seriously peeved with BB models now. My first BB was fantastic ... but all newer models have had problems ... think BB needs to ensure that all techy problems are fully ironed out prior to launching their new BB handset!
1. Connect your Z10 to the wall outlet charger for an hour and then with the Z10 powered on, and with it STILL CONNECTED, remove the battery for a minute and replace. This will normally reset the the on-device battery meter and allow the charging status and percentage to show more correctly.
2. Orange is your tech support contact and any issue which they cannot resolve, they should escalate up to BlackBerry tier two tech support, or you should ask/demand that.
1. If any post helps you please click the below the post(s) that helped you.
2. Please resolve your thread by marking the post "Solution?" which solved it for you!
3. Install free BlackBerry Protect today for backups of contacts and data.
4. Guide to Unlocking your BlackBerry & Unlock Codes
Join our BBM Channels (Beta)
BlackBerry Support Forums Channel
PIN: C0001B7B4 Display/Scan Bar Code
Knowledge Base Updates
PIN: C0005A9AA Display/Scan Bar Code -
Satellite L755-1NP - Battery meter missing in task bar
This is really annoying.
The little battery meter in the notification area is not there anymore.
It is really hard to guess the battery life from the battery LED on the front of my L755-1NP. I tried right clicking the notification bar and checking properties but the battery meter icon is greyed out so I cannot turn it on.
Anybody have an idea on this?Hi
Maybe this workaround would help you:
1) Open the Start menu, and type gpedit.msc in the search and press Enter.
2) UAC notification would appear, so click Enter.
3) Now you can set and manage the Local Group Policies
4) Open the all users and on the left side (pane), click on an expand User Configuration, Administrative Templates and Start Menu and Taskbar.
5) Search in right pane for Remove the battery meter and click on Edit.
6) to Enable the Power Icon - Select Disabled or Not Configured and click OK.
7) Now reboot the notebook
Good luck -
[B560] Battery meter, wifi strength meter not working in notification area
This all started when I had my laptop on my lap, and the battery slipped out of place (one of the clips must have slid to unlock).
Battery meter, when hovered over, shows that laptop is "plugged in and charging" but shows a red X over the battery.
Wifi meter shows the blue "thinking" circle, when hovered over shows I am connected and have internet access.
Another thing that's not working is the screen brightness and volume meters that appear when unsing Fn+arrow keys (they still function, but the meters don't appear on the screen).
This is such a strange combination of problems, I have no clue what's going on. I've uninstalled and reinstalled the lenovo energy management drivers, with no luck.
EDIT: And now I'm getting this error when trying to reinstall lenovo energy managementHi
Maybe this workaround would help you:
1) Open the Start menu, and type gpedit.msc in the search and press Enter.
2) UAC notification would appear, so click Enter.
3) Now you can set and manage the Local Group Policies
4) Open the all users and on the left side (pane), click on an expand User Configuration, Administrative Templates and Start Menu and Taskbar.
5) Search in right pane for Remove the battery meter and click on Edit.
6) to Enable the Power Icon - Select Disabled or Not Configured and click OK.
7) Now reboot the notebook
Good luck -
Battery Meter Red, Not Charging when plugged
Last night i was using my phone to browse and surf the net. the battery was running out finally it gave me a graphic that i need to plug it in. The graphic was a plug + the electricity symbol. So i plugged it in and the plug and the electricity turned into just the electricity symbol. so i went to bed and when i woke this morning, the phone was on the same screen. It had the battery meter in red, the electricity symbol on the but no charge. So i checked the plug on the wall, and it works. So i decided to plug it in to the computer and still the same. No charge going through.....
I restarted it while still plugged and nothing.
so finally i restarted it, unplugged the cord....then replugged it and it finally started getting charge...
Has this happened to anyone? Or is there some kind of safe gaurd that i dont know about and just making a full of myself on here?Ok I think I have an answer. This happened to me twice and both times, it resolved the same way.
CAUSE: Both times, this happened when I let the battery run down too much. I was playing a game or listening to music and ignored the low battery warnings thinking I could push it and eventually the iphone shut down. No problem, I thought. I can just plug it in and keep on going. But when I plug it in, the iphone won't charge ... like it normally does. I get the red battery meter and the plug and lightning symbol as previously described. The phone won't turn on. I tried resetting it several time - hard resets as well - with no response. Always to the screen with the red battery.
SOLUTION: What i did both time was to keep the phone plugged in for at least 4 hours and maybe even more. I noticed that the red battery symbol flashes when it is not plugged in but when it is plugged in - the red battery symbol does not flash. Even though the phone is non-responsive in every other way, it seems to recognize if it is plugged into a power source or not. So I kept it plugged in for several hours. By the way, the phone is totally unusable during this time.
After that time period - I did a hard reset and the phone booted up with the white apple symbol and I started recharging again - this time it took.
I did this TWICE so I think it will work in the future.
THEORY: I am not a computer person (I'm a gynecologist in real life) but I will try to explain this behavior as best as possible. I think when the battery runs down too low it shuts down. But it shuts down EVERYTHING! Even the software that charges up the battery - which is a bug that Apple needs to fix - but everything shuts down. So this may sound stupid but it seems that when it is shut down to this degree the phone does not know how to charge itself. That is why nothing works. The phone remains shut down. It does not reboot. It does not charge up. However, as noted above, the phone does seem to recognize when it is plugged in to a power source or not as indicated by the flashes on the red battery symbol. It flashes if it is not plugged in and it stops flashing when it is plugged.
Anyways, even though the phone does not know how to charge up, it is charging anyways - but only by a trickle. A microscopic trickle. And it takes a couple of hours via this trickle to charge up the phone to a certain level to be able to reboot. After the reboot - you have to charge up the battery again - but since the phone is now working, it knows how to charge itself up normally.
Again, this is an amateur theory but I can't explain this behavior any other way. -
IPad 2 battery meter stuck, anyone else?
It seems after downloading a few apps and putting the iPad to sleep with wifi on the battery meter stops updating the next day when I wake it from sleep. I used to notice the ipad draining by 1% every 9 minutes, but now it has been 20+ minutes and no change. A reset seems to fix the problem, but is anyone else encountering this issue or willing to test? I'm on iOS 4.3.5
Ater a few more weeks of testing, I have noticed several more details about the battery. After a full charge to 100%, the first few % (going from 100% down to 90%) takes longer to drain compared to the rest of the battery. So going from 100% down to 99% took me 22 minutes and towards the 90% mark, I noticed more consistent drainage (about 9 minutes for every 1%)
The second thing I noticed is that downloading apps had nothing to do with the battery meter getting stuck. It just took a really long time (about 27 to 30 min) for it to get unstuck after I first woke it from sleep. This would happen only when I left the ipad for long periods of inactivity (sleep). It would not happen after putting it to sleep and waking it up in 10 minutes (battery continues to drain properly).
The third thing I tried to test was to rule out the battery meter reporting the % incorrectly. If the meter was following a pattern whereby it was stuck at 100% for 30 min and then continued to drain properly, this should affect the ipads battery life. I continued to use the ipad over the course of a week (with the meter getting "stuck" several times) until it hit its final 1%. I was able to use it for about 6-7 minutes before it died. Basically the ipads battery meter was reporting the % accurately (even with the meter being "stuck") or the ipad would have just died at around 2% or more since the ipads battery meter was constantly getting "stuck" over the course of the week.
I think this has something to do with the rechargeable batteries themselves. For instance; after heavy usage of the battery followed by a long period of rest, the battery seems to gain some of its charge back or at least retain a higher capacity (this would explain why the battery meter seems stuck when you wake it from a long sleep). However; after heavy usage and a short rest period, the battery seems to not retain this ability.
I'm not sure if this phenomenon applies to all rechargeable batteries and it would be great if other ipad owners would post their experience (not even sure if anyone else actually takes the time to stare at their battery meter and time it for every % that goes down lol). -
Help! Something has happened to my battery meter. I have a US flag next to the battery meter, but it appears that the language on my battery meter and wireless meter are now in Dutch and I have no idea what I did (if anything) to make it that way. I'd like to have English again.
Hi Andrea!
Glad everything is working well for you now! My next suggestion would have been to run repair disk from your software install DVD. I mention this because if you have problems (that seem strange) in the future, this is a very good troubleshooting "fix." The process repairs directory problems that, while rare, create "funny" behavior.
I t does sound like "parallels" may have been at the root of the problems - from what you describe.
When you get time, post your configuration in the profile. In that way, everyone reading a post will; have a common basis for discussion.
A gratuitous suggestion. I always make a bootable clone of my iMacs before any software changes. In that way, I have a retreat position. I make the clones on an external firewire drive using a little program called SuperDuper ($28 US at www.shirt-pocket.com).
Barry -
Battery leaking/bad battery meter?
So, earlier today my battery was showing at least half of the battery being left. I was in class listening to music when suddenly the phone just turned off.
I figured it crashed and all, but when i tried to turn it back on it said my battery was empty (?????) I am not sure if the battery meter is bad, or my battery is broken, I just know that the phone was showing enough battery to last me all day, and then it suddenly turned off. Anyone else have this problem?I am a new owner of an iPhone 3G ( < 2 months). I've come to live with the shorter battery life than I'm used to in previous non-PDA phones. Until yesterday, I've been very happy with the phone. But yesterday I went almost the entire day without charging the phone and ran the battery down to less than 20% (according to my battery meter and guessing based on an eye ball guessimation). So I plugged it in to charged it and it was almost full (not quite but probably 90%). I unplugged it and took it with me for about 2 hours. During that time I did not used it once. I got back home and took it out of my pocket and unlocked it. Now the batter meter showed less than 50% battery life (FYI - Bluetooth was off the entire time). Did I kill my battery by running it down that far (if this is the case than that is ridiculous) or is there a bug with the batter meter (similar to the bug with the signal strength meter that 2.1 fixed)?
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I just recently installed mountain lion and an update for SMC firmware to install power nap. Everything is working except for the menu bar, the icons native to the system do not respond, and features like the clock and battery meter freeze.
When I mouse over the icons, the rainbow appears as if it was processing something. The problem is eliminated when I restart my computer but it comes back after a while.
I guess I cant make a backup copy and restore the whole disk because the copy would be made with this error.
Can anyone help me? Anyone with the same issue?Update: I was able to test out the HDMI adapter as well and the same issue occured. I'm stumped. 10.8.1 maybe.
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Iphont battery meter not working/ push notifications not working/restarting over and over again.
A few weeks ago, I went on a vacation out of the country. I had my iphone 5 on airplane mode for a week. When I got back and turned it off of airplane mode, it started restarting over and over again right after being plugged into the charger. Eventually, it seems to get ahold of itself and stops turning on and off, but the phone battery meter freezes where ever it is at that point. If it has 100% battery, it says it has 100% battery until it dies. If it only has 1% battery, I'll leave it on the charger long enough to have 100%, but it will still say 1%. The battery life itself is not any different. According to the meter, my phone will stay on all day with 1%. Also, after being dead, my phone would turn on immediately after being plugged in (rather than waiting a few minutes to get enough charge as usual). I think this is because since my phone does not know how much battery it has, it thinks it has enough to turn on right away.
I visited the apple store, and they told me to restore it as a new phone. When I did this, it did not work at first. But after a day, my phone battery life meter started working normally again, and it stopped doing the turn on/turn off continuously thing. BUT imessage no longer worked. It said "waiting for activation" for two weeks. Also, push notifications no longer worked. Every time I openned an app, it would notify my that i could not have push notifications and to connect to itunes. Certain apps wouldnt work at all (snap chat, lulu). They would just give the alert about push notifications over and over again.
I wanted imessage back, so I restored my phone as new once again. This time, imessage, push notification, snapchat, ect. started working again. But, it has gone back to not knowing how much battery life it has and restarting over and over again after being turned on from a dead state. WHAT DO I DO?! I don't want to have either of these problems. It's kind of like my phone has a virus.
note: the first time i turned it on after coming back from vacation, it said "no sim card" for a few minutes.Option 1
Back Up and try rebuild the library: hold down the command and option (or alt) keys while launching iPhoto. Use the resulting dialogue to rebuild. Choose to Repair Database. If that doesn't help, then try again, this time using Rebuild Database.
If that fails:
Option 2
Download iPhoto Library Manager and use its rebuild function. (In Library Manager it's the FIle -> Rebuild command)
This will create an entirely new library. It will then copy (or try to) your photos and all the associated metadata and versions to this new Library, and arrange it as close as it can to what you had in the damaged Library. It does this based on information it finds in the iPhoto sharing mechanism - but that means that things not shared won't be there, so no slideshows, books or calendars, for instance - but it should get all your events, albums and keywords, faces and places back.
Because this process creates an entirely new library and leaves your old one untouched, it is non-destructive, and if you're not happy with the results you can simply return to your old one.
Regards
TD -
Kaputt battery charge meter, and no sound
Hi folks, I have a Macbook Pro with 10.5 on it.
Okay, so a few moments ago, I was sitting on the couch running off of my battery, and I get the usual low battery warning, at 10%, so I wait a few minutes, and at about 8% I plugged in the charger. I was listening to headphones previously, and after I had unplugged them, I noticed that there is no more sound coming from the speakers. I can't even adjust the sound. So I unplugged the battery charger and the computer went into sleep mode as if the battery was completely dead. I plugged it back in, logged on and the battery meter read 19% and then bounced to 3%. Now it's at 23%, and I am not sure what to think.
What's wrong with my laptop?First thing to try is to reset your device. Press and hold the Home and Sleep buttons simultaneously ignoring the red slider should one appear until the Apple logo appears. Let go of the buttons and let the device restart. See if that fixes your problem.
If that didn't help Make an appointment at an Apple Store to have your device examined by a technician. Or contact Apple Support. -
Hi
Last night my macbook pro gets off automatically when battery gets empty and in the morning it isn't turning on. When i connect the charger, the light on the charger turns green to orange (showing that it is charging) but when i press the power button it suddenly changes to green again. I thought there must not be any connection between the charger light and the power button. And battery meter was running fine.
When it tried this again and again the charger light disappear and battery meter also stops working, when i clearly observe it there is a very dim green light in the charger (not observable in the light) and the laptop is still not showing any change.
please help!Try Resetting the System Management Controller (SMC)
Apple - Batteries - Notebooks -
Envy x360 battery short and CMOS/RTC | No dedicated CMOS battery = Kafkaesque HP support nightmare
Relevant Case Number:
3015038426
Caveat:
If I'm wrong about this, I'll eat my hat with a sauce made of ultra-expensive brand-name HP ink.
Question:
Does anyone at HP want to take reponsibility for a series of the company's tech support representatives giving horribly wrong hardware information, wasting customer time and money?
Summary:
1. I have apparently experienced a short in my main battery.
2. In the x360, the real-time clock (RTC) and BIOS settings are apparently powered by the main battery, not a separate CMOS/RTC battery.
3. (1) and (2) explain why my symptoms include a CMOS checksum error and 0-set RTC on boot.
4. Three separate HP representatives have been absolutely insistent that:
(a) I have a CMOS/RTC battery that just isn't disclosed in the service manual.
(b) My symptoms indicate the need for CMOS/RTC battery replacement.
(c) This requires a 2-week+ send-in service, even though I live right next to an authorized support center.
(d) A much less intrusive main battery replacement could not help me, since I have a CMOS issue.
5. I have already had to pay $54 and change for a local shop to confirm that HP support has been, for want of better terms, full of it -- they have been BSing me by phone and live chat, and there is no dedicated CMOS battery.
6. Because of HP's intransigence, I now face the choice of either
(a) paying another $54+ to get myself a new main battery on the open market
or
(b) completely unnecessarily going without my primary work machine for weeks in order to get a new main battery for free from HP. That's assuming that the people at the service center know that replacing the motherboard won't do anything for this machine.
Hilarious and/or Depressing Support Record:
1. Symptoms
This is an HP Envy x360 15t hybrid notebook, model u011dx (G6T85UA).
It had been suspended but suddenly appeared off. It would not power on until AC power was attached.
It showed a CMOS checksum error (502) on boot, and its real-time clock did not hold the time between power cycles.
It had inconsistent problems with failed or severely delayed POST completion.
If AC power was removed during operation, it immediately died. Information about the main battery still showed up in the OS, where it appeared fully charged but never discharged at all.
The light next to the AC plug would often blink blue depending on the power state.
The machine could POST normally (except for the CMOS and RTC failures) with the main battery physically detached.
2. Call ("Amit")
I don't have a transcript of my initial call with HP ("Amit"), but here is the gist of it. My 502 CMOS checksum error implicates the CMOS battery. My steps are to attempt a BIOS upgrade. Failing that, the computer would need to be sent in for service so that the CMOS battery could be replaced. Amit described it to me as the shape of a small tablet.
3. False Hope
When I had initially called, the case was off of the PC and both sides of the motherboard were accessible so that I could try to see if there were any visually obvious problems with the CMOS/RTC battery. Naturally, I couldn't find it, and I had hoped the call would help me. In any case, Amit would need to call back in 60-90 minutes after I had the chance to take care of other things and re-connect the machine's components so that I could boot it and do a BIOS upgrade.
Just before he called back, the machine appeared for one or two power cycles to have overcome its problem. It even seemed like it was drawing main battery power for a few moments during a session with AC power detached. Amit closed the case for me pending the problems recurring.
I concluded that one of the following two things must have happened. Either:
(a) All of the problems were related to the main battery, and the main battery connector had just gotten jarred loose so that one or two pins were not contacting properly. By disconnecting and reconnecting the main battery in my search for the RTC/CMOS battery, I had solved the issue by reseating it properly.
or
(b) All of the problems were related to the CMOS battery. But by having it on AC power for testing for a little while, I had charged the CMOS battery enough to enable POST and for it to mediate the transition from AC to battery power (I know this probably isn't how it should work, but hey).
I also updated the BIOS to the newest version so that I could ensure I was following the pre-shipment troubleshooting step set out by Amit.
Fairly quickly after the second call and the closing of the case, all of the symptoms recurred. I carefully re-checked and re-seated the main battery to rule out (a) above. I then decided to run the computer on AC power for several hours to test theory (b) above. When this failed, I went back to the HP site and opted for chat support.
4. First Chat (KARISHMA BARPANDA)
Gist:
I clearly have a problem with my invisible CMOS battery. Also, this CMOS battery is absent from the manual because it isn't supposed to be user-removable, not because it doesn't exist. Note especially the exchange at 2:02.
Transcript:
Spoiler (Highlight to read)
1:38 PM Support session established with KARISHMA BARPANDA.
1:38 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Welcome to HP Customer Support & Services for Notebook support. My name is Karishma and I will be your technical support specialist today.
1:38 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Hi
1:38 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: How are you doing today ?
1:38 PM Adam Colligan: Hello; this is related to case 3015038426
1:38 PM Adam Colligan: I'm good; just a little confused
1:39 PM Adam Colligan: PC symptoms implicated RTC battery: CMOS checksum error on boot. But also instant death when AC power removed. Temporarily resolved after re-seating main battery cable, so chalked up to that. Now not so sure: maybe I had just partly charged RTC battery during testing. Now trying long run on AC to rule this out.Query: x360 service manual (unlike other Envy manuals) makes no mention of RTC/CMOS battery. Didn't see one exposed on board. Can you verify presence and location of CMOS batt?
1:40 PM Adam Colligan: Just to clarify: I'm not asking you to walk me through changing a CMOS battery or anything like that -- I know you want notebooks sent in for service if they need that officially. But I just want to make sure that I actually know where the thing is on this model
1:42 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: I am sorry, I can't understand you.
1:43 PM Adam Colligan: Okay, I'll back up. Have you heard of something called a CMOS battery or an RTC battery?
1:43 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Yes.
1:44 PM Adam Colligan: Would you be able to find out where it is located on my Envy x360 15t notebook (u011dx)?
1:45 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Alright !
1:46 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: In this situation, we need to take the notebook in free servics repair.
1:46 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Please, provide me the complete sdhipping address along with the zip code.
1:46 PM Adam Colligan: It is not confirmed yet that the CMOS battery is actually the problem
1:47 PM Adam Colligan: I don't want to set up a service yet. I just want to know *where* the battery is attached to the board.
1:47 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: We need to replace the CMOS battery,
1:47 PM Adam Colligan: How do you know that we need to replace the CMOS battery?
1:48 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Because tHe CMOS battery is not removable.
1:48 PM Adam Colligan: Well, in that case we're probably talking about replacing the whole motherboard. Do you mean *not removable* or just "not user removable" ?
1:48 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: We will take the notebook in service reapir and our HP certified technician will do the complete hardware diagnostic of your notebook.
1:49 PM Adam Colligan: I don't want to do anything yet except *LOOK* at the board and see if there is anything obviously wrong with the CMOS battery connection
1:49 PM Adam Colligan: I just want to know *where* it is; I don't need to actually do anything to it
1:50 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Let me explain.
1:51 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Let me check.
1:52 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Please, allow me few moments.
1:52 PM Adam Colligan: Thank you
1:56 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Thank you for staying connected. I appreciate your time and patience.
1:56 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: I am sending you a link, please go through page number 33 and 34.
1:56 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA has sent a link: http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c04513489
1:57 PM Adam Colligan: That's okay; I understand that it may take time
1:57 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part.
1:58 PM Adam Colligan: 33 and 34 refer to the main battery, not the CMOS battery
1:58 PM Adam Colligan: I know that the CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part. However, I want to visually inspect it.
1:59 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: It is not listed there.
1:59 PM Adam Colligan: Exactly. Compare that to this manual for the HP Envy 17, page 41
1:59 PM Adam Colligan: http://www.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c02160120.pdf
2:00 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: If you are facing any issues with the battery then, we need to take the notebook in service reapir and will fix the issue.
2:01 PM Adam Colligan: Sigh.
2:02 PM Adam Colligan: Look, here is a theory. What if this PC does not have a separate CMOS battery, and it's been using power from the main battery to keep the clock and BIOS settings current? In that case, the symptoms might just be a result of poor seating of the main battery cable. To rule that out, I would like to confirm for a fact that a CMOS battery actually exists on this motherboard, and I'd like to see it with my own eyes.
2:02 PM Adam Colligan: ...before I go without my PC for days or weeks
2:03 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery exsist in the motherboard and it is not a customer replaceable part.
2:04 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: You cannot see it.
2:04 PM Adam Colligan: So where on the motherboard is it?
2:04 PM Adam Colligan: It's on the motherboard but it's invisible?
2:04 PM Adam Colligan: Maybe it's under a piece of foam by the HDD indicator light? There aren't many places for it to hide
2:05 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: I would suggest you to sent the notebook in service repair, and if there will be any hardware issues, then HP technician will take care of it.
2:06 PM Adam Colligan: Please answer this question honestly for me. Is the location of the CMOS battery actually available to you? It's okay for you to say, "I don't know where it is, and I don't know how to find out where it is". But it seems like you are avoiding saying that.
2:10 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Let me know are you facing any issues with the HP notebook right now ?
2:11 PM Adam Colligan: Yes. Why won't you answer that question?
2:24 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: I would like to inform you that, the CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part.
2:24 PM Adam Colligan: What does that have to do with whether or not you know where it is?
2:24 PM Adam Colligan: Is there some rule that you are not allowed to say "I don't know" ?
2:24 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.
2:25 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.
2:25 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery can be replaced by the HP hardware engineers.
2:26 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: So, the CMOS battery can be replaced only in our service center.
2:26 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Do you want to send your notebook for a free service to replace the CMOS battery ?
2:26 PM Adam Colligan: I think we've established that. I am not asking you about how to replace it. I'm asking if you can find out where it is.
2:26 PM Adam Colligan: It's perfectly alright if the answer is "I don't know", but I do expect that amount of honesty
2:26 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: No, it is not listed in the manual.
2:27 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: I can understand your concern.
2:27 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: As, it is not listed in the manual, let me know how can I assist you.
2:28 PM Adam Colligan: So then the next question is: can I contact a technical support professional who can tell me where it is attached so that I can visually inspect it before committing to a service by mail?
2:30 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: This is the only technical support and you can contact our voice technical support. However, they will tell you the same thing, which I have told you.
1:38 PM Support session established with KARISHMA BARPANDA.1:38 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Welcome to HP Customer Support & Services for Notebook support. My name is Karishma and I will be your technical support specialist today.1:38 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Hi1:38 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: How are you doing today ?1:38 PM Adam Colligan: Hello; this is related to case 30150384261:38 PM Adam Colligan: I'm good; just a little confused1:39 PM Adam Colligan: PC symptoms implicated RTC battery: CMOS checksum error on boot. But also instant death when AC power removed. Temporarily resolved after re-seating main battery cable, so chalked up to that. Now not so sure: maybe I had just partly charged RTC battery during testing. Now trying long run on AC to rule this out.Query: x360 service manual (unlike other Envy manuals) makes no mention of RTC/CMOS battery. Didn't see one exposed on board. Can you verify presence and location of CMOS batt?1:40 PM Adam Colligan: Just to clarify: I'm not asking you to walk me through changing a CMOS battery or anything like that -- I know you want notebooks sent in for service if they need that officially. But I just want to make sure that I actually know where the thing is on this model1:42 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: I am sorry, I can't understand you.1:43 PM Adam Colligan: Okay, I'll back up. Have you heard of something called a CMOS battery or an RTC battery?1:43 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Yes.1:44 PM Adam Colligan: Would you be able to find out where it is located on my Envy x360 15t notebook (u011dx)?1:45 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Alright !1:46 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: In this situation, we need to take the notebook in free servics repair. 1:46 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Please, provide me the complete sdhipping address along with the zip code. 1:46 PM Adam Colligan: It is not confirmed yet that the CMOS battery is actually the problem1:47 PM Adam Colligan: I don't want to set up a service yet. I just want to know *where* the battery is attached to the board.1:47 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: We need to replace the CMOS battery, 1:47 PM Adam Colligan: How do you know that we need to replace the CMOS battery?1:48 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Because tHe CMOS battery is not removable. 1:48 PM Adam Colligan: Well, in that case we're probably talking about replacing the whole motherboard. Do you mean *not removable* or just "not user removable" ?1:48 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: We will take the notebook in service reapir and our HP certified technician will do the complete hardware diagnostic of your notebook. 1:49 PM Adam Colligan: I don't want to do anything yet except *LOOK* at the board and see if there is anything obviously wrong with the CMOS battery connection1:49 PM Adam Colligan: I just want to know *where* it is; I don't need to actually do anything to it1:50 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Let me explain. 1:51 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Let me check. 1:52 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Please, allow me few moments. 1:52 PM Adam Colligan: Thank you1:56 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Thank you for staying connected. I appreciate your time and patience.1:56 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: I am sending you a link, please go through page number 33 and 34.1:56 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA has sent a link: http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c045134891:57 PM Adam Colligan: That's okay; I understand that it may take time1:57 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part. 1:58 PM Adam Colligan: 33 and 34 refer to the main battery, not the CMOS battery1:58 PM Adam Colligan: I know that the CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part. However, I want to visually inspect it. 1:59 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: It is not listed there. 1:59 PM Adam Colligan: Exactly. Compare that to this manual for the HP Envy 17, page 411:59 PM Adam Colligan: http://www.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c02160120.pdf2:00 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: If you are facing any issues with the battery then, we need to take the notebook in service reapir and will fix the issue. 2:01 PM Adam Colligan: Sigh.2:02 PM Adam Colligan: Look, here is a theory. What if this PC does not have a separate CMOS battery, and it's been using power from the main battery to keep the clock and BIOS settings current? In that case, the symptoms might just be a result of poor seating of the main battery cable. To rule that out, I would like to confirm for a fact that a CMOS battery actually exists on this motherboard, and I'd like to see it with my own eyes.2:02 PM Adam Colligan: ...before I go without my PC for days or weeks2:03 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery exsist in the motherboard and it is not a customer replaceable part. 2:04 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: You cannot see it. 2:04 PM Adam Colligan: So where on the motherboard is it?2:04 PM Adam Colligan: It's on the motherboard but it's invisible?2:04 PM Adam Colligan: Maybe it's under a piece of foam by the HDD indicator light? There aren't many places for it to hide2:05 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: I would suggest you to sent the notebook in service repair, and if there will be any hardware issues, then HP technician will take care of it. 2:06 PM Adam Colligan: Please answer this question honestly for me. Is the location of the CMOS battery actually available to you? It's okay for you to say, "I don't know where it is, and I don't know how to find out where it is". But it seems like you are avoiding saying that.2:10 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Let me know are you facing any issues with the HP notebook right now ?2:11 PM Adam Colligan: Yes. Why won't you answer that question?2:24 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: I would like to inform you that, the CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part.2:24 PM Adam Colligan: What does that have to do with whether or not you know where it is?2:24 PM Adam Colligan: Is there some rule that you are not allowed to say "I don't know" ?2:24 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.2:25 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.2:25 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery can be replaced by the HP hardware engineers.2:26 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: So, the CMOS battery can be replaced only in our service center.2:26 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: Do you want to send your notebook for a free service to replace the CMOS battery ?2:26 PM Adam Colligan: I think we've established that. I am not asking you about how to replace it. I'm asking if you can find out where it is.2:26 PM Adam Colligan: It's perfectly alright if the answer is "I don't know", but I do expect that amount of honesty2:26 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: No, it is not listed in the manual.2:27 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: I can understand your concern.2:27 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: As, it is not listed in the manual, let me know how can I assist you.2:28 PM Adam Colligan: So then the next question is: can I contact a technical support professional who can tell me where it is attached so that I can visually inspect it before committing to a service by mail?2:30 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: This is the only technical support and you can contact our voice technical support. However, they will tell you the same thing, which I have told you.
5. I pay money to have the CMOS battery checked
Clearly, I wasn't inspired by that chat. Maybe the rep was just wrong about the hardware. More likely, it was just my own ignorance that kept me from finding the CMOS battery, and so I would benefit from a real technician checking it, maybe replacing it or telling me I really did need to send it to HP for service, and also looking at the main battery circuit.
A couple of hours and $54.13 in diagnostic fees later, I had my answer from the technicians. My main battery had a short in it and needed to be replaced. There is no dedicated CMOS / RTC battery on this motherboard. The clock and BIOS use main battery power, and it makes perfect sense that the main battery fault would therefore include symptoms normally associated with a simultaneous failure of a main battery and a dedicated CMOS battery in another computer. This PC is not unique in lacking a dedicated CMOS battery. I could buy a new main battery for around $55.
Obviously, I was now thoroughly upset at HP Support. With this clearly being a main battery issue and the main battery being easy for me to replace and covered by warranty, HP could just send me a new main battery. I wouldn't even care if they wanted to tell me that swapping it myself would void the rest of the warranty period -- better than going without my PC for weeks on end. Failing that, I would probably rather even pay the money for a new battery from a retailer rather than go through the stupidity of sending this PC in just to have the battery swapped out. But now I had already paid the equivalent of that new battery cost just to get the correct information about my hardware, solely because official HP Support had given me false information -- twice!
6. Second chat ("Justine")
Gist:
So I re-connected with technical support in the hope that something could be done to make the situation right. I briefly summarized the problem and gave the case number in the webform submission not shown. Make sure you're sitting down for this transcript and have either whisky or popcorn depending on whether you work for HP or not.
Note in particular at 5:28, where my soul tries to escape my body, and 6:00, where Justine accidentally states the whole issue without actually understanding.
Transcript:
Spoiler (Highlight to read)
5:10 PM Support session established with Justine.
5:10 PM Adam Colligan: Hi Justine
5:11 PM Justine: Thank you for contacting the HP Customer Support & Services. My name is Justine and I will be your chat support specialist today. Please give me a few minutes while I review your issue description details. NOTE: For security reasons, PLEASE DO NOT send credit card information via chat. Also, If you are using a mobile device (iPad, iPod, iPhone, etc....) and experience difficulties viewing the chat window, please initiate a new chat from a Windows or Mac computer or use a different browser for better compatibility.For DISCONNECTED or failed to reconnect, we keep records for all interactions feel free to initiate another chat.
5:11 PM Justine: May I have the phone number and e-mail address associated with your HP product?
5:11 PM Adam Colligan: [redacted]
5:12 PM Justine: In order for me to assist you better, can you please provide the Product and Serial number of the system that is having an issue.
5:13 PM Adam Colligan: Are the contents of the form I filled out not sent? The SN is [redacted] . This is a model G6T85UA
5:15 PM Justine: Thank you for verifying me those information, Adam. I have read your issue description and it seems like you need help in processing a replacement for your computer's battery, is that correct?
5:15 PM Adam Colligan: Yes.
5:16 PM Justine: I apologize for the inconvenience. I will do my best to help you resolve this issue.
5:19 PM Justine: Alright, regarding the incorrect information that our tech had provided you, what is that information again, Adam.
5:20 PM Adam Colligan: My own hunch was confirmed by an independent service center that I had to pay to diagnose this problem: this machine has no dedicated RTC/CMOS battery.
5:20 PM Justine: -
5:22 PM Justine: So the issue is that you went to a local tech and they are charging you for your battery replacement correct?
5:22 PM Adam Colligan: So I wasted both a day of work and over $50 because two technical support representatives told me in no uncertain terms that I was looking at symptoms of a CMOS battery fault. And I *now* face also having to double that money on a new battery unless you guys can make it right.
5:23 PM Adam Colligan: I paid for the diagnosis because they had to go in and determine that HP tech support was, for lack of a better phrase, full of it
5:23 PM Adam Colligan: I even have a hilarious piece of transcript: 2:02 PM Adam Colligan: Look, here is a theory. What if this PC does not have a separate CMOS battery, and it's been using power from the main battery to keep the clock and BIOS settings current? In that case, the symptoms might just be a result of poor seating of the main battery cable. To rule that out, I would like to confirm for a fact that a CMOS battery actually exists on this motherboard, and I'd like to see it with my own eyes.2:02 PM Adam Colligan: ...before I go without my PC for days or weeks2:03 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery exsist in the motherboard and it is not a customer replaceable part. 2:04 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: You cannot see it.
5:25 PM Adam Colligan: I had even checked the x360 service manuals and compared them to other Envy models, since the CMOS / RTC battery is specified for the other ones. Hence this (apparently completely false) gem: KARISHMA BARPANDA: I would like to inform you that, the CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part.2:24 PM Adam Colligan: What does that have to do with whether or not you know where it is?2:24 PM Adam Colligan: Is there some rule that you are not allowed to say "I don't know" ?2:24 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.2:25 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.2:25 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery can be replaced by the HP hardware engineers.
5:25 PM Adam Colligan: Apparently the truth is that it's not in the manual because *it doesn't exist*
5:27 PM Justine: I apologize about that, Adam. But to explain this properly, yes the CMOS battery is not a replaceable part. We do not ship CMOS batteries. But if you want, you can consult your local tech about it.
5:28 PM Justine: May I ask why do you want the CMOS battery to be replaced, Adam?
5:28 PM Adam Colligan: Oh my god.
5:28 PM Adam Colligan: You're going to have to just give me a moment here.
5:29 PM Justine: Okay Adam. Please take your time.
5:31 PM Adam Colligan: Before I explain again, let me just ask a question or two. Let's say that, hypothetically, HP Support thought that I needed to replace my CMOS/RTC battery. So I ship it off. Imagine that it arrives at the service center and the techs there discover that there is nothing wrong with the CMOS battery. Instead, they find that the main battery has a short in it and needs to be replaced. Would I have to pay for the replacement of the main battery?
5:32 PM Justine: Alright, first the repair process is that whatever that is we need to replace, we will. also, fortunately, your warranty covers the repair for this computer. We could send it for repair for you.
5:33 PM Justine: Whether the CMOS battery or the main battery, we will fix this computer like brand new for you.
5:34 PM Adam Colligan: And you're saying there is no charge for this?
5:35 PM Justine: Yes Adam.
5:36 PM Justine: It will be for free.
5:36 PM Justine: May I ask for your shipping address?
5:37 PM Adam Colligan: Wait; see, I don't want to do that yet. How long would the whole shipping and repair process take?
5:37 PM Adam Colligan: I've already been told that I have to go through the whole shipping nightmare even though I live right near an authorized service center
5:38 PM Justine: Okay, we will ship you a box with a return label within 2-3 business days, then the repair process would be 7-9 business days maximum. This is for us to make sure that everything will be checked and diagnosed so that when it comes back to you, it would be like brand new.
5:39 PM Justine: We could still send you the box if you want, the box would be active within 30 days, so you could decide when you want it to be dispatched.
5:40 PM Adam Colligan: See, and that's the problem: I might rather just buy a new battery for $53 rather than be without my main work machine for 2 weeks+.
5:40 PM Adam Colligan: And so here's what happened:
5:41 PM Justine: Well, if we send it for repair we can determine if it is really a CMOS issue or the main battery.
5:41 PM Justine: But it would depend on your decision, Adam.
5:44 PM Justine: Are you still there? I want to get your issue taken cared of today. Please respond if you are available to chat.
5:44 PM Adam Colligan: In order to make that choice, I needed to know whether this could really be a CMOS battery issue. If it were, then I would have no choice but to send it in, because that would mean replacing the motherboard (or at a minimum re-soldering to it...so probably replacing it). I would probably also have to spend the time before and after the shipment taking the thing apart myself and putting it back together again because I have my own RAM and my own SSD in there. And so I discussed my symptoms (which included a CMOS checksum error) with two technical support representatives. The initial one was going to take me through a BIOS upgrade attempt and informed me that if it did not resolve, it would need to be sent in for a CMOS battery replacement. I think I had already let him know that I had looked for it just to check if there was anything obviously wrong and couldn't find it, and I had wondered if there really was one.
5:46 PM Justine: Actually if it already gave a CMOS error, it is already that.
5:46 PM Adam Colligan: In the end I did upgrade the BIOS, but when it appeared to work afterward, it was a coincidence. The ticket was closed but I discovered quickly that the problem was still there. It appeared that maybe I had partially charged the CMOS battery and so just needed to try running the machine for several hours to see if it would recharge. When that failed, I contacted HP again, which is where those snippets of transcript come from
5:47 PM Connecting...
5:47 PM Connected. A support representative will be with you shortly.
5:47 PM Support session established with Justine.
5:47 PM Adam Colligan: Once again, I was assured that this really was or could be a CMOS battery issue. I specifically raised my concern that there might not even be a CMOS battery, which is why I tried to focus the conversation on getting the rep to tell me where it is. She very directly and repeatedly told me that it was there -- which meant that I had no choice between a long service and replacing the battery myself.
5:49 PM Justine: The issue is that the CMOS could have already failed so technically, even though it is physically there, the computer is not detecting it anymore. For this, since there is already an error with the CMOS, it should be replaced.
5:50 PM Adam Colligan: But between the fact that the reps had not sounded competent and the possibility that it might be worth it to replace the CMOS battery myself and void the warranty, I was still suspicious. And that's why I found myself spending $54.13 for a third party service provider to tell me what HP should have known all along. This machine does not have a separate CMOS battery. When the main battery fails -- as mine has -- it will cause all the symptoms of a main battery failure *plus* the symptoms of a CMOS battery failure, since *the main battery* powers this board's real-time clock and RAM environment memory
5:51 PM Justine: I could wait for your decision if you want to send it in for repair, Adam. I will still send you a box for the repair, that would be available for use within a month. It is still up for you to decide, Adam.
5:51 PM Adam Colligan: And now you're saying the same thing: that my CMOS checksum error (and also my clock resetting) means there is a problem with the CMOS / RTC battery.
5:51 PM Adam Colligan: Am I correct that that is what you are saying?
5:52 PM Justine: I highly suggest sending it for repair, really. In this case we could provide a proper explanation in your issue.
5:52 PM Adam Colligan: Are you or are you not telling me that I have a CMOS / RTC battery and that it might need to be replaced?
5:53 PM Justine: Every motherboard has a CMOS battery, yours have already failed so it needs to be replaced.
5:54 PM Adam Colligan: See, I think -- and the service center that just looked at it thinks -- that that statement is flat-out untrue.
5:54 PM Justine: You could replace it by yourself like what you want, but first, we do not ship CMOS batteries, and replacing it by yourself will jsut tamper the warranty.
5:55 PM Adam Colligan: And so the important question is: will HP give me a free main battery, which I can install myself without needing to send the computer off, if it turns out that you just became rep #3 to give me false information?
5:56 PM Justine: Actually, we cannot determine that without really having it physically here for further details and with sufficient tests. Our technicians will be testing it not just inside, but physically.
5:57 PM Adam Colligan: You don't need my computer in front of you in order to know whether or not this model *has* a CMOS battery. You are essentially swearing up and down that it has one. If you're wrong, then you've not only cost me the $54 I already spent but will also unnecessarily cost me two weeks+ without my computer
5:57 PM Justine: I apologize but we can only replace the battery if we have the computer in question, and we cannot do that without the error in the main battery itself.
5:57 PM Justine: Every computer has a CMOS battery, what I mean is that we have to perform tests on your computer physically to determine the real issue.
5:57 PM Justine: I apologize about that.
5:57 PM Adam Colligan: So I want to know: if it turns out that this model has no CMOS battery, will HP comp me a main battery in return for the time and money that it has already made me waste?
5:59 PM Justine: Actually, we can send you a box with a return label, so that you can decide. At this point we will just wait for your decision.
5:59 PM Justine: We will only replace or provide on the part that neede to be replaced.
6:00 PM Justine: The CMOS and the main battery has different roles, so we couldn't send you a main battery when it is a CMOS issue.
6:00 PM Justine: Is that okay?
6:00 PM Justine: May I ask for your shipping address please?
6:01 PM Adam Colligan: That. That last thing you said. That is the heart of the whole problem! If the CMOS battery doesn't exist, then you would *know* you could just send me a main battery?
6:01 PM Adam Colligan: As long as it's not costing me anything, sure, send me a stupid box. My address is [redacted]
6:02 PM Justine: If the CMOS battery doesn't exist, the main battery doesn't have anything to do with it. If it does not exist, we can send it for repair, since we do not send CMOS batteries. That is the only thing that we can do.
6:02 PM Justine: Alright, is there anything else I could help you with?
6:03 PM Adam Colligan: Oh lord. If the CMOS battery doesn't exist, then the main battery is the whole point, because it's the main battery that's supplying the power to the components that normally draw from the CMOS battery on most other systems.
6:03 PM Adam Colligan: Nope, there's nothing else. You've provided another great transcript for the file.
5:10 PM Support session established with Justine.5:10 PM Adam Colligan: Hi Justine5:11 PM Justine: Thank you for contacting the HP Customer Support & Services. My name is Justine and I will be your chat support specialist today. Please give me a few minutes while I review your issue description details. NOTE: For security reasons, PLEASE DO NOT send credit card information via chat. Also, If you are using a mobile device (iPad, iPod, iPhone, etc....) and experience difficulties viewing the chat window, please initiate a new chat from a Windows or Mac computer or use a different browser for better compatibility.For DISCONNECTED or failed to reconnect, we keep records for all interactions feel free to initiate another chat.5:11 PM Justine: May I have the phone number and e-mail address associated with your HP product?5:11 PM Adam Colligan: [redacted]5:12 PM Justine: In order for me to assist you better, can you please provide the Product and Serial number of the system that is having an issue.5:13 PM Adam Colligan: Are the contents of the form I filled out not sent? The SN is [redacted] . This is a model G6T85UA5:15 PM Justine: Thank you for verifying me those information, Adam. I have read your issue description and it seems like you need help in processing a replacement for your computer's battery, is that correct?5:15 PM Adam Colligan: Yes.5:16 PM Justine: I apologize for the inconvenience. I will do my best to help you resolve this issue.5:19 PM Justine: Alright, regarding the incorrect information that our tech had provided you, what is that information again, Adam.5:20 PM Adam Colligan: My own hunch was confirmed by an independent service center that I had to pay to diagnose this problem: this machine has no dedicated RTC/CMOS battery. 5:20 PM Justine: -5:22 PM Justine: So the issue is that you went to a local tech and they are charging you for your battery replacement correct?5:22 PM Adam Colligan: So I wasted both a day of work and over $50 because two technical support representatives told me in no uncertain terms that I was looking at symptoms of a CMOS battery fault. And I *now* face also having to double that money on a new battery unless you guys can make it right.5:23 PM Adam Colligan: I paid for the diagnosis because they had to go in and determine that HP tech support was, for lack of a better phrase, full of it5:23 PM Adam Colligan: I even have a hilarious piece of transcript: 2:02 PM Adam Colligan: Look, here is a theory. What if this PC does not have a separate CMOS battery, and it's been using power from the main battery to keep the clock and BIOS settings current? In that case, the symptoms might just be a result of poor seating of the main battery cable. To rule that out, I would like to confirm for a fact that a CMOS battery actually exists on this motherboard, and I'd like to see it with my own eyes.2:02 PM Adam Colligan: ...before I go without my PC for days or weeks2:03 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery exsist in the motherboard and it is not a customer replaceable part. 2:04 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: You cannot see it. 5:25 PM Adam Colligan: I had even checked the x360 service manuals and compared them to other Envy models, since the CMOS / RTC battery is specified for the other ones. Hence this (apparently completely false) gem: KARISHMA BARPANDA: I would like to inform you that, the CMOS battery is not a customer replaceable part.2:24 PM Adam Colligan: What does that have to do with whether or not you know where it is?2:24 PM Adam Colligan: Is there some rule that you are not allowed to say "I don't know" ?2:24 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.2:25 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: That is the reason, it is not shown in the manual.2:25 PM KARISHMA BARPANDA: The CMOS battery can be replaced by the HP hardware engineers.5:25 PM Adam Colligan: Apparently the truth is that it's not in the manual because *it doesn't exist*5:27 PM Justine: I apologize about that, Adam. But to explain this properly, yes the CMOS battery is not a replaceable part. We do not ship CMOS batteries. But if you want, you can consult your local tech about it.5:28 PM Justine: May I ask why do you want the CMOS battery to be replaced, Adam?5:28 PM Adam Colligan: Oh my god.5:28 PM Adam Colligan: You're going to have to just give me a moment here.5:29 PM Justine: Okay Adam. Please take your time.5:31 PM Adam Colligan: Before I explain again, let me just ask a question or two. Let's say that, hypothetically, HP Support thought that I needed to replace my CMOS/RTC battery. So I ship it off. Imagine that it arrives at the service center and the techs there discover that there is nothing wrong with the CMOS battery. Instead, they find that the main battery has a short in it and needs to be replaced. Would I have to pay for the replacement of the main battery?5:32 PM Justine: Alright, first the repair process is that whatever that is we need to replace, we will. also, fortunately, your warranty covers the repair for this computer. We could send it for repair for you.5:33 PM Justine: Whether the CMOS battery or the main battery, we will fix this computer like brand new for you.5:34 PM Adam Colligan: And you're saying there is no charge for this?5:35 PM Justine: Yes Adam. 5:36 PM Justine: It will be for free.5:36 PM Justine: May I ask for your shipping address?5:37 PM Adam Colligan: Wait; see, I don't want to do that yet. How long would the whole shipping and repair process take?5:37 PM Adam Colligan: I've already been told that I have to go through the whole shipping nightmare even though I live right near an authorized service center5:38 PM Justine: Okay, we will ship you a box with a return label within 2-3 business days, then the repair process would be 7-9 business days maximum. This is for us to make sure that everything will be checked and diagnosed so that when it comes back to you, it would be like brand new.5:39 PM Justine: We could still send you the box if you want, the box would be active within 30 days, so you could decide when you want it to be dispatched.5:40 PM Adam Colligan: See, and that's the problem: I might rather just buy a new battery for $53 rather than be without my main work machine for 2 weeks+. 5:40 PM Adam Colligan: And so here's what happened:5:41 PM Justine: Well, if we send it for repair we can determine if it is really a CMOS issue or the main battery.5:41 PM Justine: But it would depend on your decision, Adam.5:44 PM Justine: Are you still there? I want to get your issue taken cared of today. Please respond if you are available to chat.5:44 PM Adam Colligan: In order to make that choice, I needed to know whether this could really be a CMOS battery issue. If it were, then I would have no choice but to send it in, because that would mean replacing the motherboard (or at a minimum re-soldering to it...so probably replacing it). I would probably also have to spend the time before and after the shipment taking the thing apart myself and putting it back together again because I have my own RAM and my own SSD in there. And so I discussed my symptoms (which included a CMOS checksum error) with two technical support representatives. The initial one was going to take me through a BIOS upgrade attempt and informed me that if it did not resolve, it would need to be sent in for a CMOS battery replacement. I think I had already let him know that I had looked for it just to check if there was anything obviously wrong and couldn't find it, and I had wondered if there really was one.5:46 PM Justine: Actually if it already gave a CMOS error, it is already that.5:46 PM Adam Colligan: In the end I did upgrade the BIOS, but when it appeared to work afterward, it was a coincidence. The ticket was closed but I discovered quickly that the problem was still there. It appeared that maybe I had partially charged the CMOS battery and so just needed to try running the machine for several hours to see if it would recharge. When that failed, I contacted HP again, which is where those snippets of transcript come from5:47 PM Connecting...5:47 PM Connected. A support representative will be with you shortly.5:47 PM Support session established with Justine.5:47 PM Adam Colligan: Once again, I was assured that this really was or could be a CMOS battery issue. I specifically raised my concern that there might not even be a CMOS battery, which is why I tried to focus the conversation on getting the rep to tell me where it is. She very directly and repeatedly told me that it was there -- which meant that I had no choice between a long service and replacing the battery myself.5:49 PM Justine: The issue is that the CMOS could have already failed so technically, even though it is physically there, the computer is not detecting it anymore. For this, since there is already an error with the CMOS, it should be replaced.5:50 PM Adam Colligan: But between the fact that the reps had not sounded competent and the possibility that it might be worth it to replace the CMOS battery myself and void the warranty, I was still suspicious. And that's why I found myself spending $54.13 for a third party service provider to tell me what HP should have known all along. This machine does not have a separate CMOS battery. When the main battery fails -- as mine has -- it will cause all the symptoms of a main battery failure *plus* the symptoms of a CMOS battery failure, since *the main battery* powers this board's real-time clock and RAM environment memory5:51 PM Justine: I could wait for your decision if you want to send it in for repair, Adam. I will still send you a box for the repair, that would be available for use within a month. It is still up for you to decide, Adam.5:51 PM Adam Colligan: And now you're saying the same thing: that my CMOS checksum error (and also my clock resetting) means there is a problem with the CMOS / RTC battery.5:51 PM Adam Colligan: Am I correct that that is what you are saying?5:52 PM Justine: I highly suggest sending it for repair, really. In this case we could provide a proper explanation in your issue.5:52 PM Adam Colligan: Are you or are you not telling me that I have a CMOS / RTC battery and that it might need to be replaced?5:53 PM Justine: Every motherboard has a CMOS battery, yours have already failed so it needs to be replaced.5:54 PM Adam Colligan: See, I think -- and the service center that just looked at it thinks -- that that statement is flat-out untrue. 5:54 PM Justine: You could replace it by yourself like what you want, but first, we do not ship CMOS batteries, and replacing it by yourself will jsut tamper the warranty.5:55 PM Adam Colligan: And so the important question is: will HP give me a free main battery, which I can install myself without needing to send the computer off, if it turns out that you just became rep #3 to give me false information?5:56 PM Justine: Actually, we cannot determine that without really having it physically here for further details and with sufficient tests. Our technicians will be testing it not just inside, but physically. 5:57 PM Adam Colligan: You don't need my computer in front of you in order to know whether or not this model *has* a CMOS battery. You are essentially swearing up and down that it has one. If you're wrong, then you've not only cost me the $54 I already spent but will also unnecessarily cost me two weeks+ without my computer5:57 PM Justine: I apologize but we can only replace the battery if we have the computer in question, and we cannot do that without the error in the main battery itself.5:57 PM Justine: Every computer has a CMOS battery, what I mean is that we have to perform tests on your computer physically to determine the real issue.5:57 PM Justine: I apologize about that.5:57 PM Adam Colligan: So I want to know: if it turns out that this model has no CMOS battery, will HP comp me a main battery in return for the time and money that it has already made me waste? 5:59 PM Justine: Actually, we can send you a box with a return label, so that you can decide. At this point we will just wait for your decision.5:59 PM Justine: We will only replace or provide on the part that neede to be replaced.6:00 PM Justine: The CMOS and the main battery has different roles, so we couldn't send you a main battery when it is a CMOS issue.6:00 PM Justine: Is that okay?6:00 PM Justine: May I ask for your shipping address please?6:01 PM Adam Colligan: That. That last thing you said. That is the heart of the whole problem! If the CMOS battery doesn't exist, then you would *know* you could just send me a main battery? 6:01 PM Adam Colligan: As long as it's not costing me anything, sure, send me a stupid box. My address is [redacted]6:02 PM Justine: If the CMOS battery doesn't exist, the main battery doesn't have anything to do with it. If it does not exist, we can send it for repair, since we do not send CMOS batteries. That is the only thing that we can do.6:02 PM Justine: Alright, is there anything else I could help you with?6:03 PM Adam Colligan: Oh lord. If the CMOS battery doesn't exist, then the main battery is the whole point, because it's the main battery that's supplying the power to the components that normally draw from the CMOS battery on most other systems.6:03 PM Adam Colligan: Nope, there's nothing else. You've provided another great transcript for the file.
7. In desperation, I try in vain to attract @HPSupport's attention on Twitter
Spoiler (Highlight to read)
@adamcolligan
6:20 PM - 13 Apr 2015
(1/3) Hey @HPSupport : would you make a wager with me? The question: whether 3 separate HP reps cost me $54.13 + 8 hrs' work with false info
@HPSupport (2/3) If I'm right, you send me a new battery for my x360-15t and say you're super sorry on your twitter feed. If I'm wrong...
@HPSupport then I guess no hilarious Reddit thread with support transcripts, and I'll spend like $1m on 2ml of your official ink. Deal?
@HPSupport (4/3) It's easy to resolve. Alls you have to do is know, and I mean *know*: "Does the G6T85UA have a dedicated RTC/CMOS battery?"
@adamcolligan6:20 PM - 13 Apr 2015(1/3) Hey @HPSupport : would you make a wager with me? The question: whether 3 separate HP reps cost me $54.13 + 8 hrs' work with false info@HPSupport (2/3) If I'm right, you send me a new battery for my x360-15t and say you're super sorry on your twitter feed. If I'm wrong...@HPSupport then I guess no hilarious Reddit thread with support transcripts, and I'll spend like $1m on 2ml of your official ink. Deal?@HPSupport (4/3) It's easy to resolve. Alls you have to do is know, and I mean *know*: "Does the G6T85UA have a dedicated RTC/CMOS battery?"
No response; not sure if I expected one or not.Update time! I know you've been dying to know how this has been turning out.
I provided all the requested information in response to the private message from HP staff. Nothing ever came of it; as far as I can tell, no real human being ever attempted to contact me after being "forwarded" the details of the case.
Three days after I tweeted at them, @HPSupport sent me a series of public replies. In essence, they told me to abandon useless post-sales technical support and get information from HP Sales.
Adam Colligan @AdamColligan · Apr 13
(1/3) Hey @HPSupport : would you make a wager with me? The question: whether 3 separate HP reps cost me $54.13 + 8 hrs' work with false info
Adam Colligan @AdamColligan · Apr 13
@HPSupport (2/3) If I'm right, you send me a new battery for my x360-15t and say you're super sorry on your
Adam Colligan @AdamColligan · Apr 13
@HPSupport then I guess no hilarious Reddit thread with support transcripts, and I'll spend like $1m on 2ml of your official ink. Deal?
Adam Colligan @AdamColligan · Apr 13
@HPSupport (4/3) It's easy to resolve. Alls you have to do is know, and I mean *know*: "Does the G6T85UA have a dedicated RTC/CMOS battery?"
Adam Colligan @AdamColligan Apr 13
@HPSupport No but seriously. Does the HP Envy x360 have a dedicated RTC / CMOS battery or not?
HP Support @HPSupport Apr 16
@AdamColligan Hello Adam, Eddie here. Saw your tweet. Our Product Information team will be able to assist with your inquiry. Dial:.. ^HPCare
HP Support @HPSupport Apr 16
@AdamColligan 1800-752-0900. Follow prompts for “product information”. If you prefer email click this link http://ow.ly/HYnHT .. ^HPCare
HP Support @HPSupport Apr 16
@AdamColligan Once there be sure to choose "Contact an HP sales specialist" as your subject. Let me know if you require further... ^HPCare
HP Support @HPSupport Apr 16
@AdamColligan information and/or assistance. Have an awesome day! Thanks! ^HPCare
Now, being the exhaustive give-it-a-try kind of guy that I am, I tried *both* the phone and the email path to support. I may have been told once on the phone to try the email, but it's hard to even remember at the moment. I'll just paste the email outcome here.
Me (into the webform):
HP reps have directed me to contact sales support after others in the company were unable to help with a technical product question. I need to know whether the HP Envy x360 model G6T85UA (should be board 780958-501 and main battery 760944-421) has a dedicated CMOS/RTC battery. If it does, I need to know *where* it is connected to the board. This is a fairly urgent issue for me implicating a disconnect or swap-out of the main battery while AC power is not being supplied.
HP:
Dear Adam,
Thank you for contacting the hp.com Sales Center.
I understand the you are still seeking resolution for your technical concern and I’m sorry to hear that this remains unresolved.
I'm very sorry, but our email sales team does not handle technical or product support concerns. We can only handles sales inquiries pertaining to orders placed in our store.
HP Technical Support will be able to provide you with service and support for hardware, software, and parts replacement of HP products that are still covered under warranty.
I strongly suggest that you contact the HP Technical Support Team since your matter requires technical expertise. HP Technical Support can best assist you and can be reached 24 hours a day at: http://www.hp.com/contacthp
Below is step by step guide how to obtain the webform/online form:
1. Please copy and paste this link http://www.hp.com/contacthp into a new browser.
2. Please enter your model number in the "Enter my model number" search field provided then hit the "Find my product" button to generate the result.
3. Select the correct product from the search results.
4. On the next page wait for a few seconds to load the webform.
5. Scroll down to find the webform.
5. Complete the webform then hit the "Submit" button.
6. After you fill out the online form, you will receive a Technical Support case number. You will also be able to engage with a Tech Support product specialist either by chat or they will give you a call at your earliest convenience.
By the way, I have seen a link which might help you with this concern. Here's the link:
http://partsurfer.hp.com/Search.aspx?SearchText=G6T85UA
The link shows the the HP ENVY 15-U011DX X360 CONVERTIBLE PC (ENERGY STAR) has the 780958-501 motherboard but has a different battery. It doesn't show also the RTC Battery and where you can find it. Please contact our HP Technical Support for other information.
I hope this information has been of assistance to you, Adam. Please reply to this message if there is anything further we can do. For your convenience, you may also call the HP.com Sales Center directly at 1-888-222-0029 between 7:00 AM - 2:00 AM EST, seven days a week.
Customer Satisfaction is our store’s top priority. Please tell us about your email experience today. To participate, please click on our Customer Satisfaction Survey link below.
Thank you for choosing HP. We appreciate your business.
Regards,
Regine G.
Oh dear. So technical support doesn't have technical information about HP machines, and sales support doesn't answer technical questions about HP machines and refers you to technical support. Brilliant. But by this time, I of course knew better than to actually *believe* what someone was telling me, so I used the sales phone number instead.
The sales guy was super eager to help, especially since I framed this as a problem of future use. I work on disaster vulnerability issues. If I buy Envy x360 15ts and use them in a place where there isn't AC power for a while, can I swap spare batteries into them without screwing up the BIOS and real-time clock settings?
He put me on hold two or three times for what I was led to believe were very thorough attempts to get me a totally definitive answer. And this is what someone eventually told him to tell me. All HP machines ship with CMOS batteries.
So I must have been mistaken all along, right? The CMOS battery must have stopped working at the same time as the main battery. It must just be that neither I nor my local repair shop could find my CMOS battery because we all have the wrong prescriptions on our glasses and contact lenses. Well, there's just one small issue with getting to that conclusion: what HP told me about my machine was, once again, totally false.
How do I know? Because I still didn't believe HP, and rather than shipping my compter off for weeks in the big padded box, I ordered a new main battery for a total of just over $60. I swapped it. Guess what happened, HP? If you guessed, "every aspect of the problem instantly resolved, because there never was a CMOS/RTC battery in this machine in the first place", you would win a gold star. But I'm assuming you'd also lose your job, because this particular piece of information has somehow been banished and outlawed from the minds of HP employees and contractors.
I wonder: would anybody at HP be interested in apologizing to me, much less in finding a way to make up for the $115+ I've lost because nobody at any stage to this point has been willing to act like a human being?
BUT WAIT, THERE'S GREAT NEWS
I shouldn't make it seem through this thread that HP totally lacks competence and doesn't care about me at all. Because within two hours of receiving the email from HP Sales telling me that they weren't going to do anything about my problem, I started receiving advertising email blasts full of great offers and promotions about buying a new HP laptop and other great products! Yay! I guess I'm not invisible after all. And I'm sure if I bought *more* stuff from HP, they would take care of me then. Right? -
Battery Health and ways to bring it up again?
I've had my MacbookPro for a little over two months now and 31 cycles on it. However, I have already lost 7% battery health, leaving me at only 93%. I'm pretty sure that this is not good, and that the loss shouldn't be this rapid.
I'm sure it has something to do with the way I use the computer. I leave it on quite often, which I know isn't a good thing, but had no idea that it would drain the battery like this. In some cases the computer is on for days at a time. I've gotten into a routine where each morning I turn it off for the bus ride to school, where I use it throughout the day. The night before it remains on so that I can quickly check things in the morning.
I currently use my MacbookPro as a semi-desktop. I have it hooked up to an external monitor, and use a wireless mighty mouse and wired keyboard, which is primarily the reason it's on for such long stretches.
Now that you have some background as to what I do with the computer I'd like to know if there is any way to replenish the battery health, or if that 7% is lost for good.
I've read up on this calibrating of the battery business, and I'm going to try it this weekend (can't during the week because I need it fully charged for school each day).
What exactly does this do? Does it actually replenish the battery health or just determine it's actual current percentage?
I'm using the widget iStat Pro as my monitor of battery health.
If any other information is required, I'd be happy to provide it.
Thank you.dnovelta:
use the battery frequently and lightly for best longevity. Apple states "An ideal use would be a commuter who uses her MacBook Pro on the train, then plugs it in at the office to charge."
Read these:
http://www.apple.com/batteries/
http://www.apple.com/batteries/notebooks.html
Hope this helps...
Courcoul:
Full Charge Capacity (which is what the specific battery clocked at the factory when first tested).
Just a minor correction, but can be significant. Full charge capacity is not "what the specific battery clocked at the factory", it's a nominal value, i.e. a general property of the battery type, not that specific battery. Specific batteries have a range of full charge capacities (when new). In fact, it's not even measured, it's calculated - for the 15", it's a 60 Watt-hour battery (from the specs), and it runs at 10.8 V (printed right on the battery). Thus, with a basic formula (W = V x A), an algebraic rearrangement, and some simple math, 60 Wh / 10.8 V = 5.555 Ah = 5555 mAh (~5500 mAh, which iStat uses as the denominator for "health", although I have read that under Leopard iStat uses 5600 mAh, just a rounding difference). My 17" with a 68 Wh battery calculates to 6296 mAh, ~6300 mAh - my replacement battery actually started with ~6800 mAh in System Profiler.
Just FYI...
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