G4 and Firewire Target Disk Mode

I am running a G4 made in Dec.99, with ATA drive and AGP graphics, running OX 10.3.9 and I cannot start it up in Target Disk Mode (TDM) to connect it to a Mac Pro. Any ideas? I've been all over "support" on the Apple web site and the only thing I could find is that it may not be TDM compatible, but the list of machines that do work included G4 with AGP graphics and ATA drive, which I have both. I have firmware version (BootROM) 3.1.3ƒ1 and do not know what else I can do. Does anyone have any ideas, as a co-worker told me he was able to TDM a G3. I have already done the obvious checks, cords, ports, power, etc, and the G4 keeps starting up on the system. Should I try restarting in system 9 (still installed) and then try TDM? Help, please.... if anyone can, thanks.

Hi, Andrea -
I have firmware version (BootROM) 3.1.3ƒ1
The current version of firmware for your machine is 4.2.8. It is recommended that the firmware be updated for better compliance with OSX, and doing so may solve the Firewire TDM issue. You can download the updater from here -
Article #86117 - Firmware Updates
The firmware update will run only when the machine is booted to OS 9 from the internal hard drive, so it is good that you still have that installed.
Note - the firmware update will result in a more strict adherence requirement by the startup memory test. Several years ago there was a bunch of RAM sold which did not quite meet Apple's original specs, but was good enough to pass the original memory test requirements. Much of this RAM will not pass the stricter adherence requirements after the firmware update - any that does not pass the test will be locked out during startup. Before installing the firmware update, download and run DIMM First Aid - this utility can perform basic RAM tests, such as compliance to specs, and can correct the coding on some sub-spec RAM so that it is usable after the firmware update. This utility is an OS 9 program.
Should I try restarting in system 9 (still installed) and then try TDM?
That should make no difference. Since nothing is loaded, including the OS on the drive, when a machine is started up in FwTDM (the machine's drive appears to the Host machine as if it were an external firewire hard drive), what OS may be set in Startup Disk is not relevent.
<hr>
Does anyone have any ideas, as a co-worker told me he was able to TDM a G3.
Yes, some G3's are FwTDM capable, although many G3s (such as B&W G3 models) can be only the Host machine and not the Target machine.

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Firewire Drives not showing and no Target disk mode

Strange problem. My two g4 450's one dual and one single will not start in Target disk mode, will not recognize Firewire drives and yet WILL recognize my iSight camera. What's going on?
Have 6 different drives to choose from but none mount. They all work on my G5 & MDD Dual
Enio

PROBLEM AND SOLUTION:
One computer does not recognize the other, which was booted into Firewire Target Disk Mode (either by holding the T key on start up, or by selecting FTDM in system preferences as the start up mode).
My particular case: older MBP to newer MBP unibody. I have a cable that is firewire 400 with a firewire 800 tip on the other end (6-9 pin cable). This cable is needed, for instance, if you machine only has firewire 400 but your new machine only has firewire 800 (like the new Unibody MBP). Well, they sold me this 6-9 pin cable at the store, when they should have just given me a firewire 800 cable straight across, because both machines have FW 800. Anyway, I tried the 6-9 pin cable, where the old MBP was connected via its 400 port to the Unibody's 800 port.
No dice. Would not mount, nothing. Repeated restarts, checked the cable and it does work... called Apple tech support, nothing. Researched the web until finally I think I know what it is.
There is not enough power coming from the 400 port to power the 800 port. I tried this 400-800 with my new Mac Mini as well, and it does not work. It does, however, get picked up on the older MBP when using a straight FW 400 cable. I then came across an article saying that someone was told by Apple that the FW bus can, in some machines, not provide enough power for FWTD mode. The solution for 400-800 is to go 800-800, or 400-400 if you can. If these latter don't work (FWTD mode fails to mount the connected computer's hard drive), us a powered firewire hub and connect Computer A to it, then connecting the hub to Computer B.

Firewire/target disk mode

ok so long story... bear with me...
i have 2 macs and 1 sorta died so i connected the 2 and transferred all the documents i wanted to keep onto the good one via firewire and it all worked perfectly with the target disk mode and the hard drive came up on the desktop and i could get into all my documents and save them. Then, once i erased and re-installed the system on the old one and i connected the 2 computers again and did target disk mode on the good one, the one i saved refused to recognize the other computer... i think it was some sort of incompatibility issue? i don't know but it's really frustrating and i tried it 3 times already and restarted both computers mulitple times so i just hope someone can help me please
--Louise

Hi, and a Warm Welcome to Apple Discussions and the Power Mac G5 Forum!
Well - If you haven't already, you could try FireWire TDM the other way round with the other Mac as the target. The TDM instructions and a list of suitable FireWire target Macs are here
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=58583
and some basic FW TDM checks here
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=75414
Please post again if none of it helps - perhaps giving more details of each Mac and OS X version, etc. Good Luck.

Firewire target disk mode question

I am using firewire target disk mode to copy some files, but can only see the system drive on the slave computer, what do I do so I can see the secondary hard drive on the slave computer?

You'll have to swap drives. TDM only sees the MASTER drive. If your drives are jumpered MASTER and SLAVE then switch them. If the computer uses CABLE SELECT then swap the position of each drive on the ribbon cable.

Firewire Target Disk Mode Battery Icon

When trying to enter TDM with Lacie drive connected by firewire I get the TDM yellow icon and an icon at the bottom that appears to be a charge or battery icon. It appears red.
Note:
-Power is connected (third-party ac adapter by macally)
-When in Leopard, I can access the Lacie drive and the files (I want to start up in Tiger)
Thanks.

Hi, Rob. Quoting from Apple's article How to use FireWire Target Disk Mode:
"Important: Unplug all other FireWire devices from both computers prior to using FireWire target disk mode. Do not plug in any FireWire devices until after you have disconnected the two computers from each other, or have stopped using target disk mode."

Firewire Target Disk mode confusion

Alright, so after 1.5yrs my PowerMac decides to crash...after spending time on phone with Apple support and internet, only option is complete reinstall. So I was told about Firewire Target Disk Mode and the ability to transfer all data from crashed computer to a working one, and after reading countless post on this forum as well as others, Im still a little bit in the grey on which is the Host and which is the target, so I felt that I would see if I could get a case-specific answer from my friends here...
If please could someone select correct answer.
Both computers off, start the (crashed/working) computer while holding the "T" key.
Also, is there any way I could cause any data loss to the working computer? Its my roommates and it would be terrible in if fixing mine it destroyed his!!!
PowerMac G4 Mac OS X (10.4.8)
Thank you very much in advance...and please flame me if I didnt make any sense, but hopefully will understand what Im trying to do and help a desperate man out. Thanks again!!!

I'm still a little bit in the grey on which is the Host
and which is the target, so I felt that I would see
if I could get a case-specific answer from my friends
here...
The "Target" in Target Disk Mode ("TDM") is the computer that is placed into TDM. The paradigm is that, by booting the TDM computer with the "T" key depressed, it becomes just a fancy Firewire disk (with the TDM icon on the screen) just like any other Firewire disk, and can be mounted on any other working Macintosh computer (the "Host") as an external drive.
In most cases (but not yours), it actually can be done with either computer as the "Host" and the other one as the TDM (Target). Because you can't boot your computer, it will have to be the Target so that the boot ROM can do the Firewire magic to make the drive be a Firewire TDM drive.
If please could someone select correct answer.
Both computers off, start the (crashed/working)
computer while holding the "T" key.
In your case (see above), it should be the "crashed" computer that is put into TDM mode by booting with the T key depressed.
Also, is there any way I could cause any data loss to
the working computer?
Oh sure, just like you could operating on any Computer. You could drag all of the files on the Host computer to the trash, and many would go there (some would need the admin password). You could erase the disk (Mac OS won't let you erase the boot disk, but you could boot from a CD/DVD on the Host computer and erase the boot drive. And you could make the mistake of copying the files from the TDM drive (the crashed computer) on top of similar but possibly different files on the Host. But connecting the TDM computer as a mounted drive, without more, won't cause data loss. It will require some mistake by the person at the keyboard (you).
Hope this helps,
Russ

Firewire Target DIsk Mode Mac partition not Boot Camp partition

Hi I'm having issues starting up my Mac and would like to Firewire mount the drive then image it. However, when I do so the Boot Camp partition mounts instead of the Mac partition. I've tried using Disk Utility on the host machine to mount the Mac partition (it does show up in Disk Utility) without success, Is there anything I can do.
(Yes I have yesterday's Time Machine backup, but would still prefer to do a full image before wiping and installing the OS).

Are you talking about starting up one computer in Target Disk Mode and then seeing it with a second computer (and if so, which model computer and which OS)?
[How to use FireWire target disk mode|http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1661] includes description of hardware and software requirements.
[What to do if your Mac doesn't enter FireWire Target Disk Mode|http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=75414], also read about [Open Firmware Password Protection|http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/openfirmwarepassword.html] which can disable Target Disk Mode.
[Technical Note TN 1189|http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn/tn1189.html#TargetMode] - driver details for TDM

My G4 AGP won't startup after turning on firewire target disk mode

Can any one help me on this? I have a G4 AGP Graphics Mac running 10.4.11.
I turned on firewire target disk mode in the startup utilities to transfer files to my G5. The G4 started up in Firewire just fine and I could open it up as a drive on my G5, but the problem now is that the G4 won't startup in anything but firewire mode.
So my question is: How do you shut off the firewire target disk mode? I have tried all the keyboard commands at startup and inserted the Tiger install disk and holding the C key, but nothing will let me get me passed the Firewire Icon at startup.
Any help would be appeciated, Thanks.

Hi Steve, and a warm welcome to the forums!
More things to try...
Does it boot into Open Firmware with CMDOption+of ?
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=42642
reset-nvram (press Enter)
set-defaults (press Enter)
reset-all (press Enter)
Have you done a PRAM reset...
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=2238
Tried resetting the PMU?
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=14449

Export Safari bookmarks via FireWire target disk mode?

FYI There is NO "export bookmarks" in my Safari File, as there should be.
I need to export my Safari bookmarks via firewire from a G4 to a G5. BUT I can't find anyway to export them. Please help!

What I believe Hawaiian_Starman ment, is once you have the G4 drive mounted on the G5 you can transfer files. It's easy to do this by FireWire Target Disk Mode. The drive will show up with the FW symbol. At that point just copy the old bookmark file into your home directory:
copy "FW Hard Drive"/Users/{username}/Library/Safari/bookmarks.plist to ~/Library/Safari/
Where "FW Hard Drive" is the name of the external drive on the desktop. {username} is your old username on the external drive. ~ is you home directory on your internal hard drive.
Make sure you have Safari quit before copying the bookmark file over.
Also if you want to network the two computer together just on a temporary basis, just plug in an ethernet cable between the two. Have both computers booted up. On the G4, (the computer you want to to copy files from) open the System Preferences and turn on Personal File Sharing. On the G5, Select Network from the Go menu. You should see the G4 listed in "My Network" I believe. Just log in and start copying whatever files you need.
Personally, I use Firewire as it's easier and you don't need to worry about file permissions.
PPC G4 1.4GHz Mac OS X (10.4.5) 1GB RAM, 120GB HD x2, SuperDrive, 128MB ATI Graphics Card

IMac G4/800 in FireWire Target Disk Mode shuts down, hard drive hopeless?

I have found myself in possession of a 12 year-old iMac G4/800. The machine looks stock and was nice and full of dust when I took it apart, so I'm going to assume nothing has been upgraded on it. The person who the computer belongs to has had issues booting the machine and when it does boot, the machine will throw up the "grey screen of death" after a few seconds, I suspect when the hard drive starts to get hit.
I've attempted to start the machine in FireWire Target Disk Mode and the machine will mount on my 2011 MacBook Pro, however once I begin to copy files the machine will abruptly shut off.
I have also attempted to remove the hard drive from the machine and connect it to my MacBook Pro via an OWC Drive Adapter, but it won't mount from the adapter in Disk Utility, Terminal or Disk Warrior. I've connected other (non-IDE) drives with the adapter before, but no luck with this one. Perhaps the IDE connector is faulty on the adapter?
I may look for another drive adapter and I've made an Apple Genius app't for later this afternoon, but I'm curious if anyone has any further advice. Is it more likely that it's a motherboard issue that's causing the machine to shut of in FTDM or a hard drive issue? In any case, this may be one for the Data Rescue Experts. I imagine I may get a few looks at the Apple store with such an old machine.

Another contributory issue to booting in an older PPC Mac is the PRAM battery.
If the battery is more than four years old, it would likely be a partial cause of odd
startup issues and some settings that are required for the computer to start &
run correctly would not be available. The battery is a 3.6V. 1/2AA Lithium cell.
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/NewerTech/BAA36VPRAM/
A few companies such as macsales.com show them on their web site... sounds
like your old iMac G4 800MHz could use one. Note there are takeapart instruction
pages online such as one from XLR8Yourmac from years ago. The 800MHz is
similar to the later models with faster G4 processors of the same appearance.
The hard drive type utilized is the older ATA/IDE or PATA; uses older formatting.
Tools, thermal paste, and some other tedious details need to be attended to...
•iMac G4 Take-apart for Drive and RAM upgrades:
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/imac_g4/imacg4_takeapart.html
And another fairly good page w/ larger images:
•Mr Totes' iMac G4 -- taken apart:
http://www.mrtotes.co.uk/page1/page1.html
Sometimes the power supplies and other components can be the cause of issues
in these iMac G4 models, you can test the power output by using the test ports
that are located in the same compartment as the upgrade RAM slot & wi-fi card.
You may be able to find a copy of an original Apple service manual for that iMac.
Those are harder to get, and used to be available to Apple trained technicians.
Good luck & happy computing!

Installing in Firewire Target Disk mode

I know this is a kind of silly question, but is it advisable to install OS X on my iMac when it's booted into Firewire Target disk mode? I mean, would it get funky stuff in there that the iMac doesn't need if i install from, say, my PowerMac? I know it's quite possible to do this, as I used to do it when I had two identical iMacs. But those were, of course, identical, so the target machine had the same specs as the one that was installing.
Any thoughts?
Oh, and let me say a quick "hi" to all the regulars. I haven't really been on this baord too much the past year or so. Who's still around?

Hi, Trey.
I installed Tiger via Target Disk Mode, but my G3 has been having kernel panics in the couple weeks since the upgrade. On another post someone said that they'd heard that the Target Disc Mode can be a problem. So I'm checking the posts to find out more.
My G3 has a CD-R/W drive, so I didn't have an alternative, other than to buy an external drive, or to send Apple my commercial Tiger DVDs and pay them MORE to convert it to CDs. I just paid big bucks for the G5 a month before they came out with a cheaper upgraded version, which I am unhappy about. Of course those Tiger disks are for G5 ONLY, so I couldn't install to my G3 from them, so I coughed up the cash for the DVDs. I couldn't fathom giving them even more for a CD transfer.
Of course, if the G3 keeps crashing, and I hear from others that a direct install from CD may cure the problem, what choice will I have? As much as I've loved Apple over the years, there's starting to be a more corporate (and dare I say it, Gates-like) vibe from their method of doing business. Now the kid wants an iPod for Christmas, and I have to check those boards to see how they're performing. As helpful and fun as all this technology is, it is also quite stress-inducing...
Good luck with your upgrade! --kat
iMac G5 20" (ALS); 2G RAM | iMac G3 500MHz slot-load CD-R/W CRT; 1G RAM Mac OS X (10.4.3) Using Apple since IIe, and Macs since 1984
iMac G5 20" (ALS); 2G RAM | iMac G3 500MHz; slot-load CD-RW; 1G RAM Mac OS X (10.4.3) Using Apple since IIe, and Macs since 1984

Install Leopard Server Onto Mac Mini via Firewire Target Disk Mode?

From the answers I have seen, so far anyway, the short of it is this can be done. Other than partitioning the Mini's hard drive as a GPT, which I don't know how to do.
Is there anyway to install via firewire target disk mode? The Server Assistant on my MacBook Pro wants to connect to the Mini via a network connection... but, the Mini has no monitor and no OS installed (it has an empty 500 GB hard drive). Thus, I can't get them to talk to each other over a network connection, can I?
I could try and plug it into a monitor and install locally, but the Install disc is on my MBP and currently it is in Firewire TDM, with the Mini's hard drive mounted on the Pro.
I don't want to have to get a monitor to do this... The Mini is brand new 1.83 with 2 GB of RAM and a Samsung 500 GB internal hard drive. It is mounted and the Server Installer sees it, but cannot use it because it just sees it as a firewire drive (the installer won't install to these drives I guess).
Any suggestions?
Message was edited by: Ryan Vetter1

you can configure it using server admin and workgroup manager running on another machine. you can also use screen sharing/ard if you need to see what you're doing. as long as it has a valid address on the lan, you can configure it. just be sure to give it a static address is you're going to use it as a server.
you could have installed the os from your dmg with the mini booted in target disk mode, too. the installers are in /System/Installation/Packages. you should be able to run them by double-clicking the OS installer or using the /usr/sbin/installer command from the command line.

Firewire Target Disk Mode - Secondary Internal HDD?

Hello great collective of knowledge.
Does anyone know if there is a way to target the secondary internal hard disk in Firewire Target Disk Mode?
Thanks,
Clint

FireWire Target Disk Mode will only work with the master Ultra ATA drive. To access other drives, change the position of them in the computer or use File Sharing, with SharePoints if necessary.
(23400)

Firewire target disk mode only recognizes 128GB of my 400 GB external drive

I am using an old Powermac G4 with a Seagate 400MB internal secondary drive as a n external drive via firewire target disk mode. I have used disk utility to format it but only 128 GB of the 400 GB is recognized? Any thoughts?

More than likely your old G4 has a disk controller only capable or recognizing drives up to 128Gb size. If it's an original G4 model with no additional ATA card in it, that would be normal.

Apple's Technical Service Provider complaint and Firewire Target Disk solution

As being my first post, my greetings to the community!
First of all, I would like to clarify that despite I start with a post that includes some negative comments for the Apple's Technical Support Service Provider, which I visited for my problem, I wouldn't like to give the impression that I want to generally spread a negative attitude against them, but only to describe my specific issue. Anyway, only that I haven't visited them so far, after over a 3-year period of using my computer, is a self-explained positive aspect. I've also read that complaints should refer directly to customer's support service, though it is the users with whom I want to share the knowledge resulting from my last experience.
My story/problem has been as following: My computer has failed to boot, I tried some of the tips and advices online and due to the facts that I didn't have the installation disk with me and that I was under stress to recover some of my files, I was urgently needing, I decided to visit an Apple's Technical Support Service Provider. I was hoping for a quick solution, since from the beginning it wouldn't seem to be a hardware failure. I had read about the Target Disk Mode utility and I was at least looking forward to a backup, in case my hard drive was still functioning.
For starters, the provider I finally visited (Sofia, Bulgaria), was not mentioned on the Apple's web page locator. However, I first visited a Reseller, who directed me to the technical service office (other building). Also for starters, I would like to mention that the personnel was totally polite in every case. Now, for the main issue. The technician there connected my laptop via Ethernet cable to another computer, ran a test, which showed that the hardware was working and replied that he cannot know the problem, so I have to leave my computer there for 2-3 days, in order to examine it thoroughly. Luckily, I would leave the country in 2 days and I was needing the files the same day or maximum the following one, so I couldn't follow this option. "Luckily", though, while for the moment I saved 40 euros, the price for examining my problem, regardless spare parts that might would be needed and a value for a backup that I would have might asked. I explained him that I don't have the installation disk with me, just in case he could do the repair disk there, and that I read somewhere that the computer could be connected to another computer via Firewire cable and the hard disk to be seen as an external hard disk, giving me the chance to recover the files I was urgently desiring. The answer to the above was that I can only leave the computer there and I would be informed in 2-3 days. I respect the priority I had to share with other customers, but, on the other hand, to backup 2-3 files and save my life, I don't consider it (specially now that I know) a big of a deal. More important, he wouldn't give me any advice to follow myself. Conservative policy to secure responsibility issues from their part or to secure the payment for a potential check in their house?
First, I didn't try to search for the solution, provided that I didn't have any clue from the technician and that there was no chance to find someone with another mac, but also while I couldn't risk to loose time to search for a backing up solution rather to start immediately with remaking my project (I was using 3ds Max, therefore I could work on a Windows pc). So, following is the next level of my problem and the final solution.
When I got free time, I searched more and while, as I mentioned, I couldn't find another mac, I ended up to the option of being able to mount my mac's hdd to a Windows pc, after using a 3rd-party application (MacDrive in my case) and Firewire cable to link the 2 computers (Target Disk Mode). The result was that the hard disk of my mac was recognised at the Control Panel's Devices, but wouldn't be browsed. It turned to be hard to find information related to my problem, since I guess not many people have faced the exact one. The credits for the solution go here http://www.studio1productions.com/Articles/Firewire-1.htm (thank you so much), were there's an article related to how to solve Windows 7 Firewire issues. The problem was that the Firewire drivers had to switched back to the older version (legacy), which is strange, but it worked perfectly. I'm currently happily backing up my disk.
I hope this post will save time and pain for people having the same issues and I'm sorry for the thorough details I've used in order to describe accurately my concerns.
Cheers!

thanks neil, the laptop originally came with a 10 gig ibm deathstar ata drive which i replaced a couple of years ago with a 40 gig ata. i thought that maybe some necessary drivers weren't installed onto the drive since it isn't an apple branded drive but i couldn't find anything online or on apple's site to confirm that.
the titanium's ATA is controlled via cable select right?

G4 and Firewire Target Disk Mode

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