G4 MDD Quandary-No pattern to freezes-is it ram or logic board

Ok, I refuse to give up on this money wasting project. Original post is at http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2209693&tstart=0. Anyway, replaced heat sink and CPU to get it to boot and indeed it does, flawlessly. I thought it was finally fixed but I still get freezes. I have and have tried every combination of ram swapping and the freezes still do not make sense. It is not heat related as I have temp moinitor installed and the temp window on screen after the freeze shows normal operating temperatures. Here is the conundrum. it boots and runs for days and then it freezes. During these tests I am not using the computer-just letting it run unattended. I thought two of the dimms were bad since they caused it to freeze more quickly (about 6 hours). I thought maybe the slots were bad since sometimes with those sticks in I would get kernal panic freeze. So I would run it with one 512k dimm, in the fourth slot (dimm #3 (to keep it away from the heat sink) and it will run for days before freezing. Runs the same way in the other slots. Battery is good and keeps current settings. Apple tech tool indicates everything is fine. So then, do I replace the logic board or is it a complete lost cause? I would assume a cracked soldering, or faulting capacitor that at some point heats to failure, even though it might take days.

Vernon, I appreciate your reply but I don't think it addresses the problem I am experiencing. The internal drive I am booting from is about a year old and was simply a backup drive to the main drive that was in the computer before I was experiencing the trouble. This back up drive had a clean install of the OS at the time. I pulled the main drive from it and put it in an older G4 which is what I am typing on now. Quite frankly the G4 MDD is the worst Mac I have ever owned. This was the lemon that they did the free power supply swaps on about 3 months after it came out. Incidentally the replacement power supply died and I replaced that last spring. They do have heat problems because of an aesthetically unique but practically flawed design and it is a 1.25 dual adding to the burn. Money is not an issue. My history with Mac started with the MacPlus, MacSE, Quadra 950 running an early Avid, 9500 running an Avid Media Composer, G4, G4, G5, 15" MacBook and I am in the decision stage between a 4 or 8 core to run FCP. I have a 30" cinema display, 2 24" Sony GDW F900 monitors, Aja Io, and 2T Xserve raid. I junked the 950 and the 9500 is next to go to the dump along with 6 Avid SCSI drives. I kept my MacSE and at times play Dark Castle on it. Incidentally I ran a Radius 2-page grayscale monitor on that for 6 years before I abandoned desktop publishing with Pagemaker and Quark and went full time with video production. Just sharing my history since you did yours. But, getting back to the problem, I created the new user account per Allan's recommendation, put all the DIMMS in and it has been running for a few hours now. The reason I do not think it is software related is that the freezes are random and illogical, leading me to believe that it is in fact a problem with the logic board and also because that is the last fix in the Apple tech troubleshooting pathway after pram, batteries, ram, heat sink and CPU. It has just become something I want to conquer because I can't let the machine win. Too much tech in my life I guess.

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How Do You Identify Logic board revisions for MDD FW800?

I have a logicboard, the CPU board, and the heatsink for a PowerMac G4 MDD FW800 DP 1.25 that I want to sell, but I can't figure out what Revision it is (A, B, C) or if it is 133MHz or 167MHz. I do not have the computer (bought for parts) they came from anymore but I have my own MDD FW800 DP1.25 I could consult. Logic boards, I'm discovfering, don't make for easy reading--can anyone assist or point me to a "Logic Boards 101" text?

Hi-
The following should help to ID the logic board.
For the FW800 1 ghz board, the part is identified by looking at the serial # ON THE BOARD.
Look for one of the following code combinations in the
last 4 digits of the serial # : NME,P2X,P3E,P3G,P3U,P7P,P8E,
PFD,PFF,PFG,PFT
This would be the 133mhz model.
For FW800 multi processor boards, the part is identified by looking at the serial # ON THE BOARD.
Look for one of the following code combinations in the
last 4 digits of the serial # : NMF,P2Y,P3F,P3H,P3V,P7Q,P8F,
PFE,PFH,PFJ,PFU
This would be the 167mhz model.
For the MDD 167mhz, rev A, look for one of the following code combinations in the
last 4 digits of the serial # MXJ,ND0,ND9,NE2,NE8,NEV,NEX,NFA,NFG,
NG1,NKT,NNR, NNS,NNW,NRC,NWK,P8S,PG2,PG3,PG4,PG5,PG6,PGI
For the MDD 133mhz, rev B, look for one of the following code combinations in the
last 4 digits of the serial # : NF9,NG1,NNR,NRC,PG7
For the MDD 167mhz, rev. C, to determine which 167 MHz logic board is installed in the computer, check the AirPort Card connector at the edge of the board.
If there is a 2-pin fan connector on both sides of the AirPort Card
connector, it is rev.C. Otherwise use rev. A.
Look for one of the following code combinations in the
last 4 digits of the serial # :MXJ,ND0,ND9,NE2,NE8,NEV,NEX,
NFA,NFG,NG1,NKT,NNR,NNS,NNW,NRC,NWK,P8S,PG2,PG3,
PG4,PG5,PG6,PGI
For further reference, check here:
http://www.mac-resource.com/store.php?cat=desktopparts-logicboards
G4 AGP(450)Sawtooth Mac OS X (10.4.8) 2ghzPPC,1.62gbSDRAM, ATI9800, DVR-109,(IntHD)120&160,LaCie160,23"Cinema Display

Distorted display (pattern) computer freezes

My IMAC G5 with ISight has been down since July. While using it it locked up. After powering it down and restarting it was showing a Kernel Panic error. I took it in for repair, they told me they had changed the logic board and the screen(not sure why the screen...) After bringing it it back home, after power up, the screen went distorted, showing a pattern, this while still on the gray screen. After several trials Powering down and back up, I got it to start up. It worked fine until it went to sleep, and I had to go thru the same process to get it back up and running. I've sent it back three times now, each time I'm being told the problem is the logic board. So far, the tech tells me he has swapped 6 boards.
Needless to say I'm totally disappointed in Apples' service and more than likely I'll be going back to a good old MS Windows system, but for the time being, does anyone have a clue of what may be happening?

My wife and I are having a similar problem with our iMac (no iSight) purchased in late '04. It only started recently and we've not taken it to anyone for repair. Almost out of the blue it started freezing up, usually with the distorted zig-zag pattern that requires hard reboot (no error message). So far we've not recognized a pattern as to why/when it freezes (not running a certain application, for instance), but I can promise it'll freeze when used.
iMac G5 Mac OS X (10.3.9)

MDD DP G4 elusive diagnosis - freezes during boot up. Tired- HELP!

After not using my Dual Bootable DP 1.25 GHz MDD G4 for a couple of months, it's now freezing during the boot process.
What's weird is that it boots in Target Mode just fine, and when connected in this mode to my G5 Quad, it actually boots the G5 Quad in Target Mode just fine! The G4 drive shows in fact as the boot drive on the G5 Quad's monitors.
I was able to boot off a retail Tiger 10.4.6 disk, so I did an erase and install of a fresh Tiger OS 10.4.6, which I promptly updated to 10.4.11. After trying and failing umpteen times to boot off the HD, even in safe mode, I ended up being utterly unable to get either of the Super Drives to open normally, so I had to resort to the straightened paper clip trick to retrieve the install DVD.
Now even the paper clip fails to open either of the optical drives.
I have twice wiped the HD from the G5 Quad after booting up in Target Mode, and installed fresh copies of Tiger 10.4.11 as described, with the Tiger install DVD in the SuperDrive of the G5 Quad.
Since in Target Mode the G5 Quad boots just fine of the G4 HD, I think I can rule out the Hard Drive.
I think I can rule out the battery too, as it boots fine in Target Mode and in the regular boot process it sometimes gets as far as playing the OS fresh install music after going through the registration process.
I do have the original install disks with AHT 2.0.2 that came with the G4, but I can't get the optical drives open to insert the disk in either one of them.
I'm thinking it could be bad RAM, but why would the optical drives be stuck, both of them??!
I'd be most grateful for any tips as to what to try next.

Jump all hard drives Cable Select and place the intended Master on the end connector of each IDE ribbon (each bus).
Can you clarify, please? Are you referencing the actual CPU?
Yes. A very fine layer of corrosion on one or more of the 300 pins could render the machine incapable of achieving logic.
The step should be performed after doing all the other reseats that I suggested.
I've never re-seated one,
Not so difficult.
Replacement of the thermal compound is a requisite part of the proceedure, however.
Use Arctic Cooling MX-4.
No worries if a bit too much is applied, unlike silver based compounds....... bzzzZZTT! Dead CPU.
My tutorial:
9AE7FE0E-0CF2-4A7C-8003-489B282582BC.html
I posted this for someone who wanted to remove a MDD logic board (edited for clarity, I hope):
To remove the logic board (of a MDD):
-Disconnect all cables connected to the logic board.
-Remove any PCI cards, and RAM.
-Find and remove the five screws that hold the heatsink. Remove the heatsink.
-Remove the processor board by lifting the edges of the daughter card. After successfully pulling the card free from the connector, it might help to slide the processor board a bit to the rear and/while lifting out, being careful to clear the two mounting pegs.
-Find and remove the one screw that holds the logic board.
-Slide the logic board away from the back panel, lifting to avoid the chassis hooks.
You need to pay attention to the three steps in bold. There is no screw retaining the CPU daughter card. It is sandwiched between the heatsink and the logic board socket.

1Ghz TiBook - Random freezing. Logic board fault?

Hi all,
perhaps one of you might be able to help troubleshoot this, because it's seriously driving me up the wall! I bought a used 1Ghz Titanium (DVI) recently and I'm finding that it freezes randomly when in use, requiring a comand+control restart. I've almost always experienced it in Safari, but also once in Entourage, illustrator and also in MacOS 9.2.2 Finder. Essentially what happens is that the cursor freezes and the powerbook no longer responds to keystrokes or trackpad input. I've tried an external mouse but that doesn't fix things either. The display is still lit but any moving graphics/video are frozen on screen. If music is playing in iTunes it cuts out leaving the last second of sound looping. Shortly after freezing I sometimes hear the fan come on, so perhaps there is a part of the powerbook still working after the crash (?). Also, I can select/deselect the caps lock and number lock keys and the green LEDs switch on and off, so perhaps it's not completely dead? The moment of the freeze almost always coincides with a mouse/trackpad click on the scroll bar, menu, safari menu bar, dock icon, form submit button, etc. It will on occasion freeze overnight when there is no mousing at all. generally though I can leave it playing iTunes all night and when I start using it in the morning it'll freeze when I collect my email or something.
the frequency of the freezing is semi-random; I have gone for roughly 48hrs of constant use without incident and then suddenly 2-4 crashes in short succession (ie, within about 10 mins of each other). Generally it freezes about 2 or 3 times a day. They do often come regular clumps.
Initially I thought it was Safari, or the OSX 10.4.5 installation that came with the powerbook, but I removed the entire HD and replaced it with the working drive from my Pismo and had exactly the same symptoms. Realising it was hardware related I did the usual drill of swapping, re-seating and removing ram, etc - but no dice. I've run Apple Hardware Test in a couple of 18hr loops but they return a glowing report about my hardware! techtool does likewise. I took it to the new Apple Centre in London where they ran their (apparently more powerful) AHT CD for 73 loops over 3 hours. Again, no reported errors!
I've read the long 'trackpad cable thread', and opened my powerbook to see if pinching the cable is an issue, but it's clearly not. I have lots of clearance around my trackpad cable and it's not in contact with any part of the case. I've even applied pressure all around the palmrest and the outside of my powerbook case hoping to induce a freeze but that doesn't seem to do anything.
What should I do next? when the powerbook works it's fine, but I'm at a loss as to what's causing the freezing. As a performing musician playing to hundreds of people a fault like this renders my powerbook useless since it must be absolutely stable and bullet-proof on stage.
thanks for reading and I'm grateful for any advice.
TiBook 1Ghz (DVI) Mac OS X (10.3.9) 9600/350

hi there,
thanks for the welcome. i've been visiting here for a while and find all the posts very useful.
the trackpad issue is an odd one; my powerbook doesn't seem to show the classic symptoms of weird startup chimes or jerky cursor movement, etc in the other thread. I nonetheless opened up the powerbook praying that I'd find a pinched cable since that would have been so easy to fix. unfortunately there's nothing about it that looks problematic.
I had also suspected heat as being an issue and searched this forum a couple of times for related posts, but couldn't find anything. When I opened the powerbook i checked the fans for obstructions and blew out any dust i could see (i didn't have compressed gas). Again, they looked fairly normal to me - i didn't spot anything obvious like a trapped cable. As far as I can tell all 3 fans come on OK. First one of them and then after some time another one or two turn on after the powerbook has been running a while. (Is it actually possible to determine whether or not they're all working?)
It's difficult to say whether heat is actually related to the freezing. certainly I often notice the fans come on before a freeze, or right afterwards, but just as many times that's not the case. what is consistant however is that the freeze occurs the instance a cursor selection is clicked.
would you say this would be resolved by a logic board swap, because I know someone selling one. On the other hand, I'm a little confused by all the error-free reports I get when I run the Apple Hardware Test for extened loops.
thanks again for your help!

My old MBP (2005) often crashes, freezes or shows grey screen at start up. Also track pad often does not work. I have re fomatted the HD and reinstalled system but to no avail. Genius bar says possible faulty HD, but suspect logic board, any ides any body

My old 17" MBP (2005) often crashes, freezes or shows grey screen at start up. Also track pad often does not work. I have re fomatted the HD and reinstalled system but to no avail. Genius bar says possible faulty HD, but I suspect logic board. All checks out OK on the Apple Diagnostic bench. Can a Logic board go intermittant?? Any Ideas any body??

Ive repaired 1000s of laptops over the years (translate: diagnose and replace parts).
Its not that old, Ive owned 100s of laptops (most were free) ....some I still have are nearly 13 years old and still perfect, ....some extremely expensive ones died in under a year.
other than becoming obsolete at some point, there isnt really any "will spoil on" data like Milk for solid state computer parts, ....alas.
You can have a $5000 laptop die in 4 months, and a junker one keep kicking after 10 years.... Ive seen that firsthand countless times.
Common logic dictates that "very expensive = long life" in computers,..... but all the repair people will tell you just the opposite.
I know you have a gripe, I get that all too well honestly .

My computer has been seen at Genius bar 6 times for freezing up, reloaded all original settings and even went to the apple shop where they replaced the battery and logic board. Still freezes after I try to reload iTunes stuff and app stuff from apple

my computer has been seen at Genius bar 6 times for freezing up, reloaded all original settings, all of their diagnostics, and they even sent it to the apple shop where they replaced the battery and logic board. Still freezes after I try to reload iTunes stuff and app stuff from apple, especially iPhoto which is seems to refuse to load and then begins freezing up all over again. Anyone else have this problem. Other than this, I have had absolutely no problems with this computer. Now, it's a file of junk.

Hi Ronald ...
Have you checked lately to see how much free space there is on the disk? Especially since iPhoto freezes at launch ...
Click your Apple menu icon top left in your screen. From the drop down menu click About This Mac > More Info > Storage
Make sure there's at least 15% free disk space.
And make sure the OS X software is up to date.
Click the Apple  top left in your screen.
From the drop down menu click: Software Update
If you have anti virus software installed or are using third party Mac cleaning utiliites, that may be part and parcel of the your problems.

Macbook pro freezes every few seconds. replaced the HDD, ram, logic board. to no avail. any ideas?

i have a late 2008 macbook pro. it freezes-up (more like slows down) for just a moment every 5 seconds or so. the problem has been there since i originally purchased it, but due to school, i never got around to fixing it til now. i've taken it in to apple several times (6 or 7). this last time i was there, they replaced the logic board, harddrive, and ram, and even the screen (for hot spots, unrelated). but no success. it hasn't gotten any better at all, and now, in addition to all that, the screen blacks out occasionally too.
does anyone have any idea what's happening here? where else could the problem be?

i have a late 2008 macbook pro. it freezes-up (more like slows down) for just a moment every 5 seconds or so. the problem has been there since i originally purchased it, but due to school, i never got around to fixing it til now. i've taken it in to apple several times (6 or 7). this last time i was there, they replaced the logic board, harddrive, and ram, and even the screen (for hot spots, unrelated). but no success. it hasn't gotten any better at all, and now, in addition to all that, the screen blacks out occasionally too.
does anyone have any idea what's happening here? where else could the problem be?

Graphics card/logic board issues: Macbook Pro Freezing during Apple Hardware Test!

I have a macbook pro that was working fine then the screen started acting funny. It would sometimes "tile" up where you would see the same issue repeated over and over on the screen and then computer would freeze. Sometimes the screen would start to have a strobing look and then freeze. I thought the computer was crashing but once the screen froze but the processor was still running. I knew the computer was still processing because I was streaming a video online and the audio from the video continued to download and play event though the screen was frozen.
I went to the apple store and they said they think it sounds like failure of the hardrive, graphics card, display, logic board. A new hard drive was just put in the computer about 4-6 weeks ago, and if it is the other issues could be $500-$800+ to repair. I tried to use the Apple Hardware test (non-extended test) but it keeps freezes at 2 min 32 secs every time when it starts "testing the main logic board"....
Has anyone seen anything like this and have another way to test what the problem could be? Thanks!

I know you're in denial, but it really does sound like the motherboard or graphics board which is integrated with the motherboard. Yes, fixing these things will cost almost as much as a new MacBook Pro. Get a new one, take the HDD out of your old one, and start over again.

Freeze in Standby......."logic board"

I have this problem freezes when in standby ... an apple expert in my area .... immediately said it was the logic board did not even watch it!
What do you think? thank you very much

aluc23,
Have you tried restoring your iPhone, setting it up as a new phone?
Backing Up, updating, and restoring your iPhone and iPod touch software
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1414
Prior to this, if you use a case for your iPhone, you may try using the iPhone without it for a period of time to ensure the proximity sensor is not being activated erroneously.
Hope this helps,
Raleigh

Bad Logic Board. Can I use a MDD?

I have a Powermac G4 Quicksilver 800mhz x 2. I can I use a MDD Logic Board with the Quicksilver processors?

I would not do it. The processor modules for both machines are different designs not to mention the heatsink.
My answer is no.
Are you positive the Logic board is bad? did you run the apple hardware test CD that came with the Quicksilver to confirm it is indeed a bad board?
iBook G4 Mac OS X (10.4.3)

Quicksilver Logic Board in MDD?

Could you install a Quicksilver logic board in a Mirrored Drive Doors G4?
I recently bought a replacement logic board fopr a Power Mac G4 MDD DP1.0GHz. The board looked was advertized as taken from an MDD and when arrived, looked like the right thing. When put in the computer it started right up and everything seemed fine--except the System Profiler reported DP800MHz, not DP1.0GHz. As far as I know there is no DP800MHz MDD nor are there blue Quicksilver logic boards shaped like this--or are there? Have I been ripped off. Luckily it only cost $50 and I have a Quicksilver with a dead logic board if this turns out to be the wrong part for this machine.

Hi
The frequency the CPUs actually run at is determined by the frequency of the system bus and the bus multiplier. The system bus is running at 133MHz, which is set on the logic board. The bus multiplier will be set to 6, which is set on the CPU daughter card. Consequently the processors will run at 133.33MHz x 6 or 800MHz.
The processors are capable of running at 1GHz, but to achieve this you'd have to increase the system bus speed to 167MHz, or increase the bus multipler to 7.5 to compensate for the slower bus speed. I believe both are possible but involve adding and/or removing tiny resistors on the logic board and/or the CPU daughter card.
The labels are just labels and simply refer to the CPU speed with the original CPU card in the original logic board.
The following link may help, although in your case you wouldn't be overlocking the processors. They're currently underclocked and you'd simply be bringing them back up to the freqency they've been tested and guaranteed for.
http://bitsandpieces.info/Multipliers.htm
Message was edited by: Rodney Culling

My MacBook Pro randomly freezing ever since new logic board?

My mid 2012 MacBook Pro 13" keeps ok randomly freezing ever since I've had a new logic board fitted after my macbook needed a new one (it was fixed through stormfront which is an official apple retailer). It will just freeze, won't be able to move the mouse or anything, and sometimes when I turn it off by holding down the power button, I can most of the time hear a click, but not everytime. Sometimes it freezes when starting up, sometimes it lasts a while before freezing, but recently it's been more like every 5-10 minutes. Can anyone help me as to why this is happening and what the problem may be? I'm running OS X Mavericks. Thankyou.

If You are european then even if youtube out of warrenty then in most countries, its sos that if any element was repaird under warrenty its warrenty is counting from the moment it was repaired. If you are us You have to read warrenty laws.

Mouse freezes after I fixed logic board/graphics problem. Help!!!!

Hi,
I'm sick ofthis stupid laptop!!Aghghghggh
I recently had a problem with my 14' ibook with the display going out. I thought that if I put a monitor adapter on it, it would display, but it still didn't.
Now, I put a search through and found out from Ronda Wilsons posts that you could put a 1 mm to 1.5 mm square on the raised square under the lower case to bring the graphics back. It was a success!!! My computer loaded fine!!!
BUUUUUUUUTTTTTTT, now the darn thing's mouse freezes after about two to five minutes of being on. So when I start it, I can click on a couple folders and then the mouse arrow just sits there.. Then I have to press the power button inorder to restart it. Same thing happens for the fifth time. I also installed a replacement modem for the 14' as well as the sticky square for the logic board problem. Both works fine.
Could my mouse be affected by the change and how do I fix it?

Have you tried resetting the PMU?
The PMU (Power Management Unit) controls trackpad function, so resetting it often helps when the trackpad isn't working (or isn't working right).

G4 MDD Logic Board or fan problem ?

I recently posted thinking my problem was a dead battery.
I replaced the battery and still had the problem.
here's what happens:
Once the G4 MDD is powered up and heats up, the fan comes on and stays on high speed. Eventually it sends the G4 into sleep mode.
Once this happens, I can't wake it up or power it down, unless I pull the power cord.
After replacing the battery, I reset the PRAM. no luck.
I also tried resetting the PMU, no luck.
I think there is something wrong with the logic board or the other fan (the one directed at the heat sync).
The heat sync is extremely hot, and the larger fan that is directed at the heat sync does not turn on.
I just found this article when I did a search for power mac G4 fan: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=95038
in that article, it mentions 2 LED's that should be either both on or both off, and there is only one of these LED's that is lit.
<1. Power Macintosh G4 (PCI Graphics): Check LEDs DS7 and DS8 on the logic board. In a working unit, these LEDs should be in sync with each other: both on or both off. If one LED is on and the other is off, there is a problem.>
any idea what this means ?
Is it a fan problem, or a logic board problem ?
This G4 was in storage for 5 months during a move, if that clues anyone in to what is going on.
thanks in advance for any ideas,
Steve

Hi
If it were me I start by assuming it's a simple problem with the fan as it would be the easiest and cheapest thing to replace. It should be spinning to expel the hot air around the heat sink fins out of the back of the case. I expect the computer reaches a certain temperature and goes into sleep mode automatically to prevent any permanent damage to the hardware.
Replacement instructions can be found here:
http://www.info.apple.com/usen/cip/pdf/g4mdd/g4mdd-lowerfan.pdf
I'd start by checking the fan's power connector is still fully seated and the fan isn't clogged up by dust etc. You could also try giving it a help in hand by giving it a spin with the point of a biro to see whether it's just sticking.
I'm not sure how relevant the article you linked is, as if refers to a much older model and I think it's only applicable if the computer is completely dead, i.e. no power and no fan movement.

G4 MDD Quandary-No pattern to freezes-is it ram or logic board

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