Generate Forms on Designer
Hi, Everybody
I’m new in designer
I finished my first ERD and convert it to physical tables and
indexes By (database design transformer) that’s OK , and when I
entered Design Editor I found those tables Ok ,
My problem: I want Designer to generate forms for this tables ,
I entered Navigator Window then I choosed Modules tab and then
Reusable Module Components and I lunched it Ok to select all
items to be displayed BUT I COUNDN’T FIND ANY FORMS WAS
GENERATED
HOW CAN I GENERATE FORMS ?
By the way: I don’t want to generate any Functions in designer,
I have developer2000 on my machine , and I use Designer 6I Ver
6.5.4
THANKS
It is difficult from your question to understand exactly what you
have done. I will attempt to outline the general process. All the
steps listed will be done from the Design Editor.
1. Assuming you have your data model defined in Designer
including primary keys, foreign keys, domains etc.
2. Use the server generator to create you data model in your
target database
3. Create a module for each form
4. Create a module component for each block you want to generate
(note for more advanced generation you may have sub module
components)
5. For each of the module components you need to define the
tables the block is based on and the items required. Each item
will either be bound to a column or be un-bound, i.e. non db item
6. The next step requires a reasonable degree of knowledge, I
suggest you read the help or a good Designer book. To get the
layout and functionality you require you need to use a
combination of the layout properties, preferences, templates,
application logic and layout tab editor settings.
7. Once you have done this you run the forms generator for your
module and unless you get generation errors you will end up with
a .fmb. (Make sure that the version of Forms you have is
compatible with the version of Designer)
8. You should expect to repeat steps 6 and 7 a number of times to
get the form you want.
I hope this helps
Regards
Mark
Similar Messages
-
Generating forms from Designer... bug?
Sorry for offtopic....
I'm trying to generate form from designer. The form has 1 data module with base table & one lookup table usages. One field from lookup table is displayable. When I set "Display type" property of this field "Text" disigner says: "CDI-21600: A running utility.. etc." BUT when I set "Display type" property of this field "PopList" - everything goes well! I don`t even need to restart designer. This is .log from designer
Form Generator (Windows 95/NT) : Version 5.0.24.13.0 - Production on Wed Apr 25 10:14:34 2001
Copyright (c) 1995, 1998 Oracle Corporation. All rights reserved
Generating Module 'Q20010' (1 of 1)
Loading form template from file system (d:\work\libs\tpl_lov.fmb)
Loading object library from file system (d:\work\libs\dob_olb1.olb)
Block NE based on table
6 row(s) automatically chosen
-- (Error happens at this stage) --
Generation Complete
All fields from base table are binded.
Sysinfo:
WinNT 4.0.WS Rus SP6a HE
Oracle Designer (rel. 2.1.2) 7.0.24.2.0
Developer/2000 Forms 5.0.6.14.2
GUI Common files 6.0.8.12.1
Form Generator 5.0.24.13.0
P.S. I hope i've explained my problem clearly. If somethig is not clear, pls e-mail me.This is from http://metalink.oracle.com/ site - Technical libraries - Oracle Designer - Collected CDI-21600 errors,fixes and workarounds:
The CDI-21600 error message means that the generator is hitting an unhandled
exception, also known as a GPF (general protection fault). The CDI-21600 error
masks the underlying exception error. To see the real error do the following:
1. Go into the Registry Editor (REGEDIT).
2. Navigate to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\software\oracle\des2_70
3. Set EXCEPT_HANDLING to 0 (by default it is 1).
Repeat the action that resulted in the error.
I have read this article and it seems that there is not such bug, but ... ?
Maybe this will be a little help for you.
Helena -
Error while generating forms from Designer 2000
Hi,
The following error was encountered while trying to generate forms from the Designer ( using Design Editor ) .
CDI-23564 : "C:\ORAWIN95\BIN\CF50G32.DLL" could not be loaded or does not exist . Please check that the product has been installed correctly .
But the specified dll actually exists in the specified path .
Pls clarify ( send mail to [email protected])
Thanks
Eugene Xavier
nullThis is from http://metalink.oracle.com/ site - Technical libraries - Oracle Designer - Collected CDI-21600 errors,fixes and workarounds:
The CDI-21600 error message means that the generator is hitting an unhandled
exception, also known as a GPF (general protection fault). The CDI-21600 error
masks the underlying exception error. To see the real error do the following:
1. Go into the Registry Editor (REGEDIT).
2. Navigate to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\software\oracle\des2_70
3. Set EXCEPT_HANDLING to 0 (by default it is 1).
Repeat the action that resulted in the error.
I have read this article and it seems that there is not such bug, but ... ?
Maybe this will be a little help for you.
Helena -
Cfg61.dll - Cannot generate forms from Designer
Hi
When I try and generate a form from Designer 6i (i am using the tutorial app) i get the following error message :- CDD-23564 : The file "g:\orant\BIN\cfg61.dll" could not be loaded or does not exist. However the file does exist in the specified location. Ive looked thru the on-line documentation and checked the registry but cant see anything obvious. Ive got the following configuration on my machine :-
Windows NT 4 (service pack 3)
Oracle 8i (version 8.1.6)
Designer 6i (version 6.5.28.8.0)
Any advice would be welcome.
Thanks
nullThe configuration looks ok except for Th eService Pack. Designer requires Service Pack 5 or 6 or Wondows 2000 Service Pack 1. Try changing the Service Pack.
All the best -
Error generating form on Designer 6i
Hi folks:
I got a new PC.
It comes with a AMD Atholon Processor.
I am trying to test all the Oracle Products.
But I am getting a Designer error, related with a forms generation:
CDR-21605: Failed while processing.........
I was looking on these forum but I can not find any solution to my problem.
Few months ago, my currect PC needs to be re-format to installed all the Oracle products.
All the installation was sucesfully installed and not even one product failed.
I don't know what could be the reason of the erro i mentioned before.
My PC has 2Gb of RAM.
Some friend told me something about the pagging file size......
I don0t know.
Best regards.
Abdel MirandaHello there:
The full error message is this:
CDR-21605: Failed while processing in function InitGlobals BOF
Reported Messages:
CDR-21605: Failed while processing in function InitGlobals BOF
Cause: The generator failed due to an unexpected error - the error indicates the object the generator was processing when it failed.
Action:
The message on Designer Message Windows is:
Form Generator (Windows 98/NT/2000/XP) : Version 6.5.93.2.9 - Production on Wed Jan 28 08:11:59 2009
Copyright (c) 1995, 2003 Oracle Corporation. All rights reserved
An internal error has occurred, context and traceback follows...
Last CV function: InitGlobals
Current preference object: Application System BLD1_PROD (1)
Generation Complete
Not a clue about which is the real message or which action can we take to resolve.
Any ideas.
Abdel Miranda
Panama -
CDG-03516 ERROR: While generating form in Designer 10g
Hi Gurus,
We have recently migrated from 9i to 10g. We are not able to generate few forms and getting the below error message:
"CDG-03516 ERROR: Module NSP0070: This module contains or references an object outside of the current workarea"
We found that for one of the table there is an entity which is shared from another container which was excluded in the workarea.
We have the same entity in a different container that exists in the workarea.
Any idea how to change the reference of the entity from the old excluded container to the current container that exists in the workare without much impact.
Thanks in advance for your solution.
Regards,
VinodhAn Entity should not matter.
You need to have the tables generated before you can generate a form.
If you are now missing a table then that will stop the form generation.
Michael -
Generated Forms does not compile - NEXT ITEM and PREVIOUS ITEM procedure not found
I tried to generate forms using Designer 6i.
FMB was created, but there are compilation errors.
The Compiler can not found procedures called CGNEXTITEM and CGPREVIOUSITEM.
Judging by the names, those procedures are supposed to be generated by designer as well,
but there are no codes with the names.
Any idea?
YusanIs your temporary table created with the clause "on commit preserve rows" or "on commit delete rows"?
If it's the latter then try changing to the former as you have a commit in the middle of your code, doing this will keep the data in the table for the duration of the session.
If you need to clear the table of data within your session, you'll have to do an explicit delete.
Ady -
hi all,
i try to generate forms from designer and i have the following error
CDG-01338 ERROR: Module test: Failed to load form F:\Ora9iDSHome\CGENF61\ADMIN\ofgwebt.fmb
i verify that the form ofgwebt.fmb exists in the directory F:\Ora9iDSHome\CGENF61\ADMIN. i don't know why it doesn't load this form
i need help
thanks in advanceThere may be some problems with your template. For example your template has a PL/SQL library or an Object library wich cannot be found. Therefore open the template in Forms Builder.
Regards,
Harm -
Generating forms.... bug?
I'm trying to generate form from designer. The form has 1 data module with base table & one lookup table usages. One field from lookup table is displayable. When I set "Display type" property of this field "Text" disigner says: "CDI-21600: A running utility.. etc." BUT when I set "Display type" property of this field "PopList" - everything goes well! I don`t even need to restart designer. This is .log from designer
Form Generator (Windows 95/NT) : Version 5.0.24.13.0 - Production on Wed Apr 25 10:14:34 2001
Copyright (c) 1995, 1998 Oracle Corporation. All rights reserved
Generating Module 'Q20010' (1 of 1)
Loading form template from file system (d:\work\libs\tpl_lov.fmb)
Loading object library from file system (d:\work\libs\dob_olb1.olb)
Block NE based on table
6 row(s) automatically chosen
-- (Error happens at this stage) --
Generation Complete
All fields from base table are binded.
Sysinfo:
WinNT 4.0.WS Rus SP6a HE
Oracle Designer (rel. 2.1.2) 7.0.24.2.0
Developer/2000 Forms 5.0.6.14.2
GUI Common files 6.0.8.12.1
Form Generator 5.0.24.13.0
nullThis is from http://metalink.oracle.com/ site - Technical libraries - Oracle Designer - Collected CDI-21600 errors,fixes and workarounds:
The CDI-21600 error message means that the generator is hitting an unhandled
exception, also known as a GPF (general protection fault). The CDI-21600 error
masks the underlying exception error. To see the real error do the following:
1. Go into the Registry Editor (REGEDIT).
2. Navigate to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\software\oracle\des2_70
3. Set EXCEPT_HANDLING to 0 (by default it is 1).
Repeat the action that resulted in the error.
I have read this article and it seems that there is not such bug, but ... ?
Maybe this will be a little help for you.
Helena -
Multi-record / spread table...moveable fields in designer generated form
Good morning all;
I hope you are doing good...
Imagine a multi-record block layout with it's overflow property set to spread-table to accomodate 10 varchar2(25) fields. Now, of the hundreds of users working with this generated form, not one of them wants to see the fields in the same order on the screen.
What i would like to do is generate the form from designer so that a user could 'drag'n drop' let say, field #10 to the field #2 spot on the screen. Something like windows explorer where you can move the 'Size' column around so it is viewable without having to use the spread-table bar at the bottom of the screen...
Any idea on how to generate this form from designer?
Thank you and wish me luck!I don't know a solution, but I think a solution could be easier found if it was a read-only block. You did not specify that. Then maybe you could dynamically change the query behind the block.
Good luck, Paul. -
R 6018 unexpected heap error when generating a form in Designer
When generating a form in Designer i get the following error:
r 6018 unexpected heap error
Has anyone else encountered it before with forms?
Kind Regards
Maurice NiezenYou put the question to wrong forum. If it is regarding to Oracle Forms, then post to Oracle Forms forum. If it is regarding to Oracle Designer, then post to Designer Forum. This is the forum for Oracle Reports.
Thanks,
-Shaun -
Can we generate forms from different locations on same account?
We're thinking of subscribing for the unlimited forms plan. Would this plan allow us to generate forms (and receive reports) from various locations on the same account? Or would each location need its own account?
Thanks, MegHi Meg;
Depending on the roles each user needs to play, you could have one "Plus" membership that can have all of the "live" forms in it, that user could share forms and/or responses with the other users so they could collaborate in the editing and view responses and reports. The permissions in the form (ability to use paid features) are based on the form author, so the "Free" level users could use the paid features in these forms that were shared by the one Plus membership.
Here is some information on sharing forms: http://forums.adobe.com/docs/DOC-2462
Also some good gneral Quick Start guides and How To's: https://www.acrobat.com/formscentral/en/library/how-to-make-create-survey-or-form.html
In addition, if any of the free users were to create a form for the team they could export that form as a design file for the Plus member to import and then share. Since the free user can only create one form, but have unlimited shared with them, and since the form rights are from the author the Free user wouldn't want to share the form, but instead export it so that when the Plus user imports it they are the author and when it is shared the form would have the Plus level features (I hope that made sense).
As far as organization there are no folders in FormsCentral at this time.
Thanks,
Josh -
Error in generating form with 6i
I have installed designer 6i rel 2 with form developer 6i on NT
4.0.
When in design editor, I want to generate the form with generate
module, the system generate "CDR-21600: A running Generator or
Utility has failed."
Also in action column writes: " It is possible that the internal
cache is now in an inconsistent state. You are therefore
recommended to close and restart the application."
Could anyone tell me what is the problem and how to solve it.
thanksHere is an document which describes some known causes of CDR-
21600 errors. I hope it will help you.
PURPOSE
To describe some known causes of CDI-21600 errors and to
suggest possible solutions and workarounds.
SCOPE & APPLICATION
This note was written for users of Oracle Designer releases 2.1.x
and 6.0.
CDI-21600 errors occur most frequently during Design Capture and
when generating forms with the Forms and WebServer generators.
Investigating CDI-21600 errors
In Oracle Designer Release 2.1.2 and Release 6.0, this error has
the form:
CDI-21600 'A running generator or utility has failed'
The Release 2.1.1 error message was: 'Generator or Utility throw
an Exception'
The CDI-21600 error message means that the generator is hitting
an unhandled exception, also known as a GPF (general protection
fault). The CDI-21600 error masks the underlying exception error.
To see the real error do the following:
1. Go into the Registry Editor (REGEDIT).
2. Navigate to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\software\oracle\des2_70
3. Set EXCEPT_HANDLING to 0 (by default it is 1).
Repeat the action that resulted in the error.
Known Causes of CDI-21600 Errors and Possible Solutions
Some of the reasons why CDI-21600 errors occur are listed below.
1. A common cause of CDI-21600 errors is failure to install the
necessary
Developer patches.
See [NOTE:64630.1] Developer Patches required to run
Designer with Developer
2. Check that Designer is running on a supported database. Also
check that the
TNS connection is correct.
See [NOTE:60705.1] Designer Certification Matrix (HTML)
3. Check for 'dangling' foreign keys, in other words FKs no longer
owned by any
table in the repository. Delete all invalid constraints.
Invalid constraints may be created if you use the repository
dump utility to
dump and restore external foreign keys referencing tables
shared into the
application system, without dumping and restoring the tables
that own them.
If you restore a complete dump (rather than a 'skeleton' one),
and then use
the 'Reconnect Share Links' option when restoring, you may be
able to
resolve this problem.
To get a complete list of 'dangling' constraints in your
repository, connect
using SQL*Plus and use the following query:
SELECT app.name, key.name
FROM ci_application_systems app, ci_constraints key
WHERE key.table_reference IS NULL
AND key.application_system_owned_by = app.id;
You can also run CKAZANAL.ANAL_REFERENCES on your
repository and delete all
the invalid constraints that it finds. You can run the Repository
Analyzer
from: Front Panel -> Repository Administration Utility -> Utilities.
NOTE: There may be inconsistencies in the repository that the
Repository
Analyzer cannot fix. You might solve such problems by
dropping all the
tables of your application, recreate them from the ERD,
then use the
DDT and recreate your modules.
[BUG:847190] CDI-21600 during forms generation: 'dangling'
foreign key
"Since the generator is running on a repository that contains
invalid
constraints and the Repository Analyzer solves the problem,
bug closed as
unfeasible to fix."
4. Check your modules for invalid or missing references such as
missing window
placements.
5. Try generating your module against default templates and
object libraries.
6. When capturing forms or libraries, try capturing the form or
library without
application logic, then capture the application logic on its own.
See [NOTE:1064690.6] CDI-21600 when capturing design of
form with
application logic
[BUG:757541] DESCAP: CDI-21600 error reported when
capturing with
application logic
Fixed In Ver: 6.0
[BUG:926383] Duplicate of [BUG:757541] This has been fixed in
2.1.2 patch
779559. However you would be advised to apply a later patch
such as 855635
which fixes more bugs in this area.
7. Make sure that all objects that are referenced by the form have
been
captured into the repository before capturing the form.
8. A CDI-21600 will occur if a lookup usage displays only one
column of
datatype DATE or if the column of datatype DATE is displayed
as the first
item in the block.
Workaround
Add more column usages to the lookup block and do not
display the DATE data
type column usage as the first item in the block.
9. [BUG:810472] CDI-21600 when 'Argument in Caller' is set
Fixed In Ver: 6.5.3.0
Workaround
Make sure that you have an argument in the called module that
is mapped to
the "Argument Passed Value" in the calling module. The only
way to get this
mapping back once the APV has the <Module Argument> label
is to delete it
and recreate it.
10. [BUG:801736] CDI-21600 on design capture of a form with
subclassed object
Fixed In Ver: 6.0.3.1.0 (backport)
Fixed In Ver: 6.5
You have an item that has been subclassed to an object.
Checking the Design
Capture option 'Capture Control Blocks' causes the CDI-21600
error. Uncheck
'Capture Control Blocks' and the problem does not occur. Open
the FMB in
Forms*Builder and look at Data Blocks -> Items. Break the link
to the
object, save the FMB, and the form will capture (similar to
[BUG:794872]).
Alternatively, ensure the link can be established.
11. [BUG:850436] CDI-21600 on generation of a form with template
having
subclassed object group
You try to generate a form out of Designer that uses a user-
defined
template. If a collection of objects in the template is grouped
into an
object group, dragged into the object library and then either
copied or
subclassed into a form, when the form is generated you get a
CDI-21600
error.
12. [BUG:822659] Module generation fails (CDI-21600) with multi-
column PK having
long prompt text
Fixed In Ver: 6.5.3.2
Module generation with multi-column primary key having long
prompt text
causes CDI-21600 with preference MSGSFT set.
Workaround
Shorten the prompt text of PKs may not be not applicable. You
may loose end
user information.
You may have the same problem with a mandatory compound
FK. CASEOFG tries to
generate a message '<P1> must be entered', where <P1>
contains all the
prompts of the bound items from the FK. If you reduce the
length of the
prompts, or set MSGSFT = NULL or WEDI = S or property
Mandatory?=No, it
works correctly.
13. [BUG:792542] Capturing application logic causes CDI-21600
(V2 style
triggers)
Fixed In Ver: 6.5.5
After removal of the v2 triggers, the form captures/merges OK
on 5.0.24.8,
provided patch 875027 has not been applied.
14. [BUG:790877] CDI-21600 if the primary/foreign keys have no
key components
Fixed In Ver: 6.5.11
Generating a module with tables having a primary key not
correctly defined
(no PK component) will cause a CDI-21600 error. This can
occur when
unloading a module from the RON. If you pick up the module
(and only the
module) in the unload set, the table and its PK are unloaded as
a skeleton.
Loading the .DAT file into a new application will create a PK
without a
component.
15. [BUG:771549] CDI-21600 if cannot connect to the DB with
connect string in
Options (Compile)
Fixed In Ver: 6.5.13
If you cannot connect to the DB with the connect string
specified in options
(Compile), the forms generator will fail with CDI-21600.
This problem occurs when you cannot connect to the DB
because:
- the username or password is wrong;
- or the SQL*Net alias is not defined in the TNSNAMES.ORA
file;
- or the SQL*Net listener is not started;
- or the DB is down.
16. [BUG:785106] CDI-21600 when generate master detail form
with preserve layout
[BUG:855812] is a duplicate of this bug.
Fixed In Ver: 5.0.24.6.0 (Bug:860426 Backport request for 2.1.2)
Fixed In Ver: 6.0
Fixed In Ver: 6.5.3
You have a master-detail Form with the Master having items
partly on a TAB
Canvas. Generate Module works OK. You enter Forms Builder
and move some
items on the tabs (just small changes, items are still on the
same tabs).
You change the look of the Detail and change Records
Displayed. Now in
Designer you generate the Module with Preserve Layout. You
get a CDI-21600
error. The problem might reproduce without doing any changes
in Forms
Builder, just by generating with Preserve Layout.
17. [BUG:891306] If primary key column of lookup in check
constraint comment of
base table
Fixed In Ver: 6.5.5
Workaround
Do not use the name of the bound item that is based on the
primary key
column of the lookup table in a check constraint comment of
the base table.
18. [BUG:896026] Forms gen throws assertion failure in
CVINI/BUILDACTIONITEM@/CV/CVI/CVIBNI.CPP
Fixed In Ver: 6.5.7
A problem is caused by a PL/SQL definition (function, package,
procedure)
being defined as a called module for the module you are trying
to generate.
To resolve the problem and enable the module to be generated,
remove all
Called Modules that are PL/SQL definitions (functions,
procedures or
packages).
See [NOTE:2107207.6] CDI-21600 during generation of module
or Assertion
Failure \cv\cvi\cvibni.cpp
19. [BUG:812333] CDI-21600 generating a web module after
adding an unbound item
Fixed In Ver: 6.5.3.0
Backport [BUG:1280667] raised to fix by 6.0.3.9
You add an unbound item (SQL expression) to a Web module.
When you try to
generate the module you get a CDI-21600 error. If you delete the
unbound
item the Web module generates correctly.
In a test case the problem occurred during validation of the
derivation
text, if the master module component was in a different module.
A workaround
was to rearrange module components so that this was not the
case.
20. [BUG:1627963] CCVDIAG::TRACEGENERATORMESSAGE
WHEN GENERATING INCORRECT
DERIVATION EXPRESSION
Message
CDR-21605: Failed while processing Module <mod> in function
CCVDiag::TraceGeneratorMessage BOF
Cause
The generator failed due to an unexpected error - the
error indicates the object the generator was processing
when it failed.
Helena -
How to place item on canvas when generating form?
Dear All
I'm using oracle designer 10g.
I have a template form called"tmplt.fmb"
The template contains a block named "Bean_block"
and one bean item
I need to place the bean item on cg$page_1.
canvas cg$page_1 is not on my template, It is generated by designer and i want to place the bean on it when generating the form by designer.
I do not know how?
Please helphi...
actually my scenario is....
i have loaded my forms to B1....and accessing those forms using menu events...first time when form is loaded the cursor control is automatically coming on to my first control..
but when my form is changed to ADD mode or Find Mode...i'm unable to see my cursor position on my control(textBox)...
what should i do...to focus control on my textbox when form is changed its mode....
and hwere should i write the logic...
i tried logic oform.ActiveItem = oform.items.item("7").specific
in my formload() function and item events also....
its not working... -
Nested Tab Pages in 100% Generated Forms
Hi all,
Creating a Forms (9i) application, hopefully to be 100% Designer 9.0.2.6 generated. Trying to find out if it is possible to generate nested tab pages.
eg.
example table structure
Employee
|-Employee history
|-Employee skills
| |--Employee skills history
| |--Employee skills details
|-Employee time bookings
In this case, employee is the Master table with a tab section for the detail - three tabs for history, skills and time booking. On the skills tab page, I want to use skills as a master table and then have history and details as two tab pages on another tab section within the whole skills tab page.
Is this scenario possible in a 100% generated form?
Thanks,
Michael.Hi Michael,
Someone correct me if I am wrong on this, but I believe this is not possible. Only stacked item-groups display as nested tabs on a tab page. Master-detail with the details as tabs is not possible on a tab page.
Regards,
Michiel Arentsen
Maybe you are looking for
-
Keyboard & trackpad not active when booted!
Got a white 2.0GHz Intel Core2Duo 13" with 1GB RAM and OS 10.5.8. The keyboard and trackpad are suddenly locked when the the machine is booted. The cursor is in the same place after restart - not movable - but not frozen either. Because when I insert
-
Text information being displayed too long.
Hi, I have a database table containing text information. I want to displayt this information on a webpage but when I try to do so the text doesnt break as soon as i want it to, so it looks something like this: the inforamtion from my database is bein
-
Windows 7 Backup is Failing with error 0x81000101
Hello, My windows 7 backup is failing with the following message "Error Code: 0x81000101". I searched the internet but didn't find any good solution. Can you please tell me what should I do?
-
Final Cut Express not recognizing firewire
I recently deleted my hardrive on my '04 iBook, and reinstalled all my software. I have Final Cut Express version 2.0.2, and upon reinstalling it, and firing it up for the first time, with my XL2 on and attached via firewire, the "External A/V" windo
-
Hello, (Having difficulties getting through to the help line) Need help to replace the unit. I purchase a WRT350N on 10/11. Installed on 10/14, worked OK until last night 10/16. There was a bit of burning oder from the unit. Now - the wired LAN betwe