Geotagging with iPhoto and Flickr

Question in a quick and detailed version:
(quick version: )
What do you all think is the best way to geotag photos that are already stored in your iPhoto library? If you have a workflow involving iPhoto, geotagging, and possibly uploading to flickr or some sort of image sharing site like that, please post it!
(detailed version:)
I recently discovered geotagging, thanks to Flickr adding the new "map" function, whereby you can drag and drop your flickr photos onto a yahoo map. This is great and all, but it only affects the images I have on flickr. . . it does nothing for the EXIF data of my images I have stored in iPhoto.
Basically, my goal is to not have to do anything twice. I want to be able to geotag my photos once. . . write a caption/description for my photos once, apply iPhoto keywords to the photos once, then upload to flickr and have all the caption and tag (=flickr version of keyword) and geotag data already applied by the time the photo hits the web.
My current workflow:
-Import photos from camera directly into iPhoto
-Make subset album of best photos which I will later upload to flickr
-In iPhoto, write descriptions and apply keywords to each of those best photos
-Use the FlickrExport plugin to get those photos onto flickr.
-Once photos are in flickr, use flickr's "map" function to drag and drop photos to their location.
Pros of my workflow: Now I have keywords (= tags in flickr) and captions both in iPhoto AND on Flickr, and I only had to apply and write these once.
Cons: While my flickr photos are now geotagged on the web site, my photos in iPhoto remain locationless.
I have googled around and learned a bit about applications like Geotagger, which lets you assign lat/lon/altitude information to your photos (jpegs only, I think) using GoogleEarth BEFORE you import the photos into iPhoto. Basically this adds lat/lon/alt values to your photos EXIF data, but you have to do this before importing the photo into iPhoto, because iPhoto only reads the EXIF data into its cache once (when the photo is imported). Hence, if you imported your photos into iPhoto first, and then used Geotagger, the original photo's EXIF data WOULD be updated, but iPhoto would not DISPLAY (or possibly export) that EXIF data properly.
Ideally, I'd love to geotag my photos after they have already been imported into iPhoto. Geotagging before importing to iPhoto is obviously an option, but it means I have to look at a list of photos in the finder, open them one by one in Preview or something so I know which image it is and where it is, THEN use geotagger to geotag. . . THEN import them to iPhoto. It would be more convenient to do this geotagging after I've already imported the pics into iPhoto and used the nice gui to decide which pics I want to geotag in the first place.
Also, if I want to go back and geotag photos that I imported into my iPhoto library several years ago, there does not appear to be a way to do that at all without exporting the photo, geotagging, and re-importing it. If I do that, then the newly re-imported and geotagged photo will no longer have the description/caption or keywords that I spent all that time applying some time in the past, and I have extra work on my hands! Ugh. Why doesn't iPhoto support geotagging? This seems like something Apple should have thought of.

Mike G.:
Yes, iPhoto has had fields in its "show photo info" windows for lat/lon/alt for a while now. It gets all this photo info from the EXIF data that exists in the jpeg before you import it into iPhoto. This EXIF data is written to your photo file by your digital camera, usually. When you import the photo file into iPhoto, the program reads in the EXIF data (time photo was taken, exposure, f-stop, etc.) and populates the fields in iPhoto's "show photo info" windows.
Hence, if you already have lat/lon/alt data in the EXIF of your photo file BEFORE you import it into iPhoto, then iPhoto will populate those fields upon import.
The "bug" in iPhoto, however, is that the EXIF file is never again refreshed after the photo has been imported. That is, if you import a photo, then manually go and and change the EXIF data in that original photo file (not in iPhoto), then the EXIF data will have been changed, but iPhoto won't know about it. It will just show you the cached EXIF info that it grabbed when it first imported the file.
Hence, if you want iPhoto to show you the lat/lon/alt data, you have to geotag BEFORE you import. OR, if you've already imported a non-geotagged photo, you can export that file, geotag it outside of iPhoto, and then re-import. But then, of course, you have to re-apply all the keywords and caption information to the newly re-imported photo. (pain in the butt!)
Of course, this is all sort of nitpicky: my only complaint is that iPhoto doesn't SHOW you the lat/lon exif data if you geotag after iPhoto import. But that lat/lon data IS still in the photo file. You can see this by using the iPhoto Flickr plugin to upload your geotagged photo to Flickr: when it shows up in flickr, the photo will have its lat/lon info and be properly placed on the map.
I just think it would be nice if you could see your geotagged photos lat/lon info in iPhoto without having to go to so much trouble.

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    If photos are geotagged in Flickr, is there any way to easily bring that lat/long data into iPhoto? Conversely, if the photos are geotagged in iPhoto, can that geographic info be easily transferred to Flickr? In other words, if I expect to have the photos in both Flickr and iPhoto, is there an easy way to input the location data only once and have it available in both iPhoto and Flickr?

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    Yes, iPhoto has had fields in its "show photo info" windows for lat/lon/alt for a while now. It gets all this photo info from the EXIF data that exists in the jpeg before you import it into iPhoto. This EXIF data is written to your photo file by your digital camera, usually. When you import the photo file into iPhoto, the program reads in the EXIF data (time photo was taken, exposure, f-stop, etc.) and populates the fields in iPhoto's "show photo info" windows.
    Hence, if you already have lat/lon/alt data in the EXIF of your photo file BEFORE you import it into iPhoto, then iPhoto will populate those fields upon import.
    The "bug" in iPhoto, however, is that the EXIF file is never again refreshed after the photo has been imported. That is, if you import a photo, then manually go and and change the EXIF data in that original photo file (not in iPhoto), then the EXIF data will have been changed, but iPhoto won't know about it. It will just show you the cached EXIF info that it grabbed when it first imported the file.
    Hence, if you want iPhoto to show you the lat/lon/alt data, you have to geotag BEFORE you import. OR, if you've already imported a non-geotagged photo, you can export that file, geotag it outside of iPhoto, and then re-import. But then, of course, you have to re-apply all the keywords and caption information to the newly re-imported photo. (pain in the butt!)
    Of course, this is all sort of nitpicky: my only complaint is that iPhoto doesn't SHOW you the lat/lon exif data if you geotag after iPhoto import. But that lat/lon data IS still in the photo file. You can see this by using the iPhoto Flickr plugin to upload your geotagged photo to Flickr: when it shows up in flickr, the photo will have its lat/lon info and be properly placed on the map.
    I just think it would be nice if you could see your geotagged photos lat/lon info in iPhoto without having to go to so much trouble.

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    After control-clicking on Check Now in one of my Flickr albums, within iPhoto of course, all of the pictures in the album disappeared, leaving only the name of the album in the list of Flickr albums in iPhoto.
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    I just started using Flickr yesterday and have had some trouble with it - for example, I've deleted albums/sets and re-uploaded them, for various reasons. Perhaps I've confused the poor thing.
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    Barb2008 wrote:
    After control-clicking on Check Now in one of my Flickr albums, within iPhoto of course, all of the pictures in the album disappeared, leaving only the name of the album in the list of Flickr albums in iPhoto.
    Hi,
    The Flickr tool in iPhoto is both pretty neat and pretty frustrating. While I think it is a good start, it still needs work. I probably can not answer most of your questions, but I can clarify a few and offer my own experiences...
    The set made from that album is still present on the Flickr website (so far), even after navigating away from the page and coming back. I have no idea what is going on.
    That is weird. So the Flickr set in iPhoto cleared itself but the actual set on Flickr is still intact, right? Have you tried restarting your computer, going to disk utility and repairing disk permissions on your start up drive, then restarting iPhoto?
    If that doesn't clear it up, you might try rebuilding the iPhoto library by closing iPhoto then restarting while holding down the Option key. Then try some of the rebuild options and see where that gets you.
    I assumed that Check Now would sync any changes I made to photos in that Flickr set back to the same photos on iPhoto.
    The syncing is two ways, but the Flickr sync back to iPhoto is more limited. For example, if you add keywords in Flickr those keywords will be synced back to iPhoto. However if you add a photo from your flickr account into that album, Flickr will send a small version thumbnail back to iPhoto, not the original photo.
    But yes, to answer your question, all syncing between iPhoto and Flickr is more or less a two way sync.
    I am worried that Flickr is now going to delete all of those photos entirely from iPhoto (as well as from the Flickr site). That would be a big problem. It hasn't done that so far, but who knows? I understand that the syncing between iPhoto and Flickr is two way - i.e. true syncing.
    First off, Flickr can never remove anything from your iPhoto library. Perhaps a photo might be removed from a flickr album in your iPhoto, but the photo will still exist in your library. So you can not lose anything from your library using Flickr.
    Second, if the Flickr album in your iPhoto is empty but the photos are still in the album in Flickr, then they will not be removed later. The sync tends to be a real time event where if you remove photos from an iPhoto Flickr album, iPhoto then begins to remove them from Flickr as well.
    My own experience is that sometimes things happen like you experienced, where the iPhoto Flickr album gets "disconnected" from the on-line Flickr album. At this point there is no longer a connection and one doesn't effect the other. I have not found a way to relink the two which is one of the weak points of the new iPhoto Flickr syncing.
    As a side note, a nice feature would be a menu item to actually do that, disconnect iPhoto from an on-line album, as it would be nice to be able to upload an album, then disconnect it so no further changes are made to Flickr regardless of what happens to the iPhoto album. Basically a "do not update" setting.
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    To the best of my knowledge, Flickr does not sync back actual changes to the photo itself. It will sync back things like album name changes, title changes, keyword additions, and stuff like that. However I have never actually tried publishing an album to Flick then editing a photo in that album in Flickr to see what it does. I should try that to see. Generally, if I have used iPhoto to publish photos to Flickr, then I use iPhoto to make any edits to the photo, not Flickr.
    Should I delete the empty Flickr album from iPhoto, which should have the effect of deleting that set and its photos from the Flickr website, and start all over? This was a big, long upload, which is why I am hesitating.
    As I mentioned above, if the album in iPhoto is empty but everything is still intact on Flickr, then likely the album in iPhoto was "disconnected" (link lost) from the Flickr album. When you go into that album in iPhoto, does it still show a Flickr link in the upper left? If so, what happens when you click that link? Does it take you to the album?
    I just started using Flickr yesterday and have had some trouble with it - for example, I've deleted albums/sets and re-uploaded them, for various reasons. Perhaps I've confused the poor thing.
    Flickr is pretty good. It is the iPhoto to Flickr interface and syncing that is a bit weak. It sounds like your issues are with iPhoto's syncing with Flickr than with anything to do with Flickr itself.
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    Patrick

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    You can access the Library from the New Message Window in Mail:
    Uploaded with plasq's Skitch!
    *For users of 10.4 and later* ...
    Many internet sites such as Flickr and SmugMug have plug-ins for accessing the iPhoto Library. If the site you want to use doesn’t then some, one or any of these will also work:
    To upload to a site that does not have an iPhoto Export Plug-in the recommended way is to Select the Pic in the iPhoto Window and go File -> Export and export the pic to the desktop, then upload from there. After the upload you can trash the pic on the desktop. It's only a copy and your original is safe in iPhoto.
    This is also true for emailing with Web-based services. However, if you're using Gmail you can use iPhoto2GMail
    If you use Apple's Mail, Entourage, AOL or Eudora you can email from within iPhoto.
    If you use a Cocoa-based Browser such as Safari, you can drag the pics from the iPhoto Window to the Attach window in the browser.
    *If you want to access the files with iPhoto not running*:
    For users of 10.6 and later:
    You can download a free Services component from MacOSXAutomation which will give you access to the iPhoto Library from your Services Menu. Using the Services Preference Pane you can even create a keyboard shortcut for it.
    For Users of 10.4 and later:
    Create a Media Browser using Automator (takes about 10 seconds) or use this free utility Karelia iMedia Browser
    Other options include:
    1. *Drag and Drop*: Drag a photo from the iPhoto Window to the desktop, there iPhoto will make a full-sized copy of the pic.
    2. *File -> Export*: Select the files in the iPhoto Window and go File -> Export. The dialogue will give you various options, including altering the format, naming the files and changing the size. Again, producing a copy.
    3. *Show File*: Right- (or Control-) Click on a pic and in the resulting dialogue choose 'Show File'. A Finder window will pop open with the file already selected.
    Regards
    TD

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