GOP Structure Differs or Necessary Cell or Chapter Markers Missing?

DVD Studio Pro 3.0.2
A small project with one track consisting of two video streams.
Both pieces of video are exactly the same length.
Both are excoded using the same preset in Compressor.
I set up the new preset using CLOSED GOP which the manual tells me is needed for multi-angle projects.
The average bitrate for one is 4.9Mbits the other is 5.0Mbits.
I'm using buttons in a graphic in the subtitle track to switch between V1 & V2.
The track has 3 chapter markers. One at the very start.
One approx 1 second in, and one approx one second from the end.
The subtitle sits between Chapter Markers 2 & 3. (Button Highlight Markers).
When I run it in the simulator I get:
"Warning: Illegal angle situation. Only the Main Video Angle will be simulated."
I click on "OK" and in the simulator it then works quiet well.
However when I try the build I get:
"Lounge-View01:Angle GOP Structure Differs. Necessary Cell or Chapter Markers may be missing"
Can anyone advise what may be going wrong?
I've done a search but cannot find a suitable solution.
(In preferences I have "Fix Invalid Makers On Build" on).
I've spent some time on this trying a few things but seem to be going around in circles.
Thanks all.

Thanks Drew.
I'd actually read a couple of those threads when I did my original searches.
Still I went back and read them again and something "clicked".
A post mentioned that if your FCP sequence had a cut, when you encode it with Compressor, Compressor will force a "i" frame. (Is this mentioned anywhere in any manual? I missed it if it was). It then occurred to me that one of the two sequences I was having trouble with had a single cut (edit) in it.
Which means the GOP order probably changed at this point resulting in the "GOP Structure Differs" error message.
To resolve this I exported both sequences from FCP as self contained Quicktime movies. These self contained files now no longer had any breaks or "cuts".
I put these into Compressor and re-encoded the MPEG2 files. I put the results into DSP and tried again. These re-encoded MPEG2 files made from the self contained QT files worked perfectly. No error messages at all.
I build a test project which wouldn't work in (Apples) DVD Player (not unexpected), but worked fine when burnt to a DVD+RW disc and tried in a free standing DVD player.
So when making a multi-angle project in DSP the best procedure appears to be:
(1.) Complete your FCP sequences.
(2.) To remove any cuts or breaks in your FCP sequences, export the sequences as self contained MOV files.
(3.) Use the self contained MOV files when encoding with Compressor, as this will ensure matching GOP structures in the resulting MPEG2 files.
Now all I have to do is to get the overlay to sit properly on the screen .....

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>
Tomas Linhart wrote:
> thanks for answer, I guess that's the best way of handling such situation. I'm going to creat custom table holding position used in workflow mapped to real position ID from org.structure. Or more generally, holding WF post mapped to org.structure type (position, job, ...) with corresponding ID in org.
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Need to supply All "I"Frame GOP Structure - which codec shoudl I use?

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Message was edited by: Andy Mees

Encore chapter markers off / different when playing DVD and when watching in Preview mode

I'm using CS6 and Encore version 6.0.0
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First see Tom's answer in chapter marker wierdness
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Dave

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Checking "use chapter markers for Subtitles" was a good guess; however, this feature turns extended markers into subtitles (a very, very quick way to create subtitles, but limited when compared to what can be done in DVD Studio Pro).
Could a QuickTime movie burned to a DVD-R/+R work instead of a DVD? QuickTime chapter markers support text.
-Warren

Frustrated....it has limited chapter markers...is there other dvd authoring

Look like DVD SP is not comptiable with education projects. My projects are usually have alot menus and alot of chapter markers.... I had to split video tracks into few because of too many chapters and actions. Do you know if that DVD SP is possible to pass limited chapteer markers? Or there is good DVD authoring software for Macitnosh? Someone suggested me to use Sceneraic (PC software) and it is way too expensive. Hope there I will get a help.

Oh, Guys,
While we're at it, There are other serious limitations DVD SP has when it comes to the larger projects requiring lots of end actions (over the years, every time I read the DVD-Video Specifications, I find one or more additional cool capabilities DVD SP left out):
1) Cells. DVD SP only allows creating 256 cells in the *entire Video Title Set*. The DVD-Video Specifications provides for thousands in the VOB, grouped in thousands of possible PGCs which DVD SP also has no way to construct (see below).
The paltry few cells that DVD SP does allow placing per VTS, are not allowed to have end actions associated to them, or be targeted by the Connections. Only cells flagged as Markers can have end actions - and then only 52 of the Markers in a Video Title Set (Track) can have end actions (I had a post around here about a year ago explaining why); and only cells designated as Markers show up as navigation targets.
That's a serious limitation for larger projects - and for many smaller projects.
Cells in DVD SP are good to bound buttons on video, and set as the layer break, is about all.
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But even though DVD SP allows the creation of Stories (one sequential Title PGCs in the VTS), it does not allow the creation of non sequential PGCs (except for one or two non sequential PGCs in one limited in usefulness circumstance) - which is where the heavy duty arrangement of thousands of PTT's (chapters), Programs, and Cells take place. Gotta be able to create bunches of those non sequential PGCs for those large interactive projects.
I'm preparing an article that goes over the 'regular' limitations of DVD SP and how it has set up some less than optimal functioning for what it does allow. For instance, large projects can slow to a crawl and drop in player compatibility percentages during navigation of the DVD SP generated disc, simply due to the default structures users often create. For instance, the biggie - too many Tracks; There are penalties for trying to use *an entire Video Title Set*, complete with full VTSM menu domain structure (DVD SP hides this from the user), in the place of a non or sequential Title PGC.
There's more to it, of course. But I've spent the last 11 years working on ways to get around these DVD SP limitations. And for most project types, I've been successful helping my authoring studio clients. But one thing all serious DVD SP authors with good paying clients need to consider, is getting licensed with Scenarist Professional ($5,000), which I did several years ago. When you see how blazing fast even simple and complex DVDs output by Scenarist navigate, compared to the same project output by DVD SP, it will be become very clear which project types should be done in which app; and your client will be best served.
Take care,
Trai
New Constellation Technologies / TFDVD Research Labs

Chapter markers not appearing in DVDSP

I have a movie in FCP (NTSC, 4:3 SP) with several chapter markers. I exported the movie from FCP as Quicktime with "All Markers" selected. I viewed the file with QT, and the markers showed up. I compressed the movie using compressor. I imported the compressed movie into DVDSP, and the markers didn't show up.
I looked at the various related messages here, and the suggestion to use the uncompressed file to establish the markers sounded good. I imported the uncompressed file, oops, no chapter markers.
I checked my software revisions, and updated Quicktime to 7.1.1. per the Apple site. I re-created the Quicktime file using FCP and imported it, uncompressed, again into DVDSP -- no markers.
I exited everything. I started FCP, created a brand-new project, imported a small clip, set 3 markers, 1 chapter, 1 chapter+compression, 1 chaptercompressionscore. I exported the file as QT with "all Markers" selected. I viewed the file with QT, and the markers are there. I put this QT file into a new project in DVDSP -- no markers showed up at all.
We can ignore Compressor for the time being, as DVDSP doesn't see the markers even if Compressor is not used. The culprit seems to be DVDSP. Is there some DVDSP setting that needs to be set to get it to recognize markers? I've had it work ok in the past, I don't know what's changed.
thanks for any help!!!
G4 dual 1GHz Mac OS X (10.4.6) FC Studio 5.1, latest updates for everything.

I looked at the various related messages here, and the suggestion to use the uncompressed file to establish the markers sounded good.
I don't know why people post that advice. It's flat out wrong. Sorry you got bad directions.
Anyways, If you're exporting out to DVD and your QuickTime Movie will be compressed via Compressor or DVDSP's internal encoder, do not export using All Markers because that embeds the marker data in a way that DVDSP and Compressor cannot properly parse. If you're going to send to Compressor or DVDSP's internal encoder, select DVD Studio Pro Markers during export from FCP.
Selecting DVDSP Markers exports Chapter, Compression and Cut markers. Cut markers are created by FCP whenever you make a cut in the timeline. With cut markers present, every time your start a new clip - or you simply use the Add Edit command (Control-V) - it's the same as adding a compression marker, in that it greatly improve encoding forcing an I-frame in the GOP.
And, for what it's worth, there is no need to flag a marker as both a chapter and a compression marker - chapter markers are automatically compression markers. They force an I-frame in the GOP structure, just like a compression marker

Put Chapter Markers in PP or Encore?-CS4

Hey Folks.
What's the latest on whether it's better to put chapter markers in PP vs. Encore. Seems Encore has a pretty good system for doing this on the tail end of a DVD production when creating the menu. Given the many problem posts on putting markers in PP, exporting with AME, then finishing up in Encore, do you think it best to do it in Encore?
Thanks, everyone (snakes and rabbits included).

I agree with Jim. If you place Markers in PrPro, just remember that it offers several types of Markers. Just make sure that you are using the proper ones, and that all criteria are met. At one time, one had to add something in the Name section of the Marker dialog. It could be just a single character, but something had to be added. Not sure it that need has been dropped in later versions?
Though I seldom use Chapter Markers, when I do, those are usually placed in Encore.
One additional consideration is the exact placement of Chapter Markers. If one has full I-frame material, then all Frames are fair game for the placement of a Chapter Marker.If one has Transcoded to a GOP structure, then they are limited in the placement to just on an I-frame. If you Transcode to MPEG-2, prior to Import into Encore, you might want to add the Encore Chapter Markers in PrPro.
Good luck,
Hunt
PS - Jeff tries to keep the bunnies and snakes out of the main forums, though a few have been known to sneak in. Often, it will depend on whether Beer-Thirty, or Wine-Thirty has been declared...

How can I create chapter markers that iTunes will recognize?

I recently purchased several audiobooks from Barnes and Noble which are encoded as MP3s with chapter markers inserted into the metadata in a proprietary format. I am trying to convert them to appear properly in iTunes.
It appears that I could import them into a GarageBand podcast project, and create markers by hand there, but that is very slow and impractical for dozens of hours of audiobooks.
I would like to simply edit the metadata associated with the file so that iTunes will recognize them.
Here is an example MP3 audiobook file with proprietary chapter metadata:
=============================================================
Input #0, mp3, from 'A Game of Thrones-Part01.mp3':
Metadata:
title : A Game of Thrones - Part 01
copyright : Books on Tape
album : A Game of Thrones
genre : Science Fiction & Fantasy
publisher : Books On Tape
TIT3 : null
track : 1
encoded_by : OverDrive, Inc.
OverDrive MediaMarkers: <Markers><Marker><Name>Prologue</Name><Time>00:00.000</Time></Marker><Marker><N ame> Prologue (03:18)</Name><Time>03:18.893</Time></Marker><Marker><Name> Prologue (08:09)</Name><Time>08:09.467</Time></Marker><Marker><Name> Prologue (13:41)</Name><Time>13:41.200</Time></Marker><Marker><Name> Prologue (18:11)</Name><Time>18:11.133</Time></Marker><Marker><Name> Prologue (22:41)</Name><Time>22:41.440</Time></Marker><Marker><Nam
artist : George R.R. Martin/Roy Dotrice
Duration: 01:13:03.89, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 64 kb/s
Stream #0.0: Audio: mp3, 22050 Hz, stereo, s16, 64 kb/s
=============================================================
Obviously iTunes won't recognize this format. For comparison, here is an audiobook purchased from iTunes:
=============================================================
Input #0, mov,mp4,m4a,3gp,3g2,mj2, from '01 Water for Elephants (Unabridged), Part 1.m4b':
Metadata:
major_brand : M4B
minor_version : 0
compatible_brands: M4B mp42isom
creation_time : 2009-05-09 12:36:04
title : Water for Elephants (Unabridged), Part 1
artist : Sara Gruen
album : Water for Elephants (Unabridged)
genre : Fiction
track : 1
copyright : ℗ 2006 HighBridge Audio
Duration: 05:38:07.04, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 64 kb/s
Chapter #0.0: start 0.000000, end 655.000000
Metadata:
title : Water for Elephants (Unabridged)- Track 1
Chapter #0.1: start 655.000000, end 2056.000000
Metadata:
title : Water for Elephants (Unabridged)- Track 2
Chapter #0.2: start 2056.000000, end 4038.000000
Metadata:
title : Water for Elephants (Unabridged)- Track 3
Chapter #0.12: start 18249.000000, end 20287.041995
Metadata:
title : Water for Elephants (Unabridged)- Track 13
Stream #0.0(eng): Audio: aac, 22050 Hz, stereo, s16, 62 kb/s
Metadata:
creation_time : 2009-05-09 12:36:04
Stream #0.1(eng): Subtitle: text / 0x74786574
Metadata:
creation_time : 2009-05-09 12:36:04
=============================================================
When I transcode my mp3 audiobook, manually changing the metadata, I end up with this:
=============================================================
Input #0, mov,mp4,m4a,3gp,3g2,mj2, from 'A Game of Thrones-Part01.m4b':
Metadata:
major_brand : M4A
minor_version : 512
compatible_brands: isomiso2
creation_time : 1970-01-01 00:00:00
title : A Game of Thrones - Part 01
artist : George R.R. Martin/Roy Dotrice
album : A Game of Thrones
encoder : Lavf52.107.0
genre : Science Fiction & Fantasy
copyright : Books on Tape
track : 1
Duration: 01:12:55.94, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 64 kb/s
Chapter #0.0: start 0.000000, end 198.893000
Metadata:
title : Prologue 1
Chapter #0.1: start 198.893000, end 489.467000
Metadata:
title : Prologue 2
Chapter #0.2: start 489.467000, end 821.200000
Metadata:
title : Prologue 3
Chapter #0.3: start 821.200000, end 1091.133000
Metadata:
title : Prologue 4
Chapter #0.4: start 1091.133000, end 1361.440000
Metadata:
title : Prologue 5
Stream #0.0(und): Audio: aac, 22050 Hz, stereo, s16, 63 kb/s
Metadata:
creation_time : 1970-01-01 00:00:00
Stream #0.1(eng): Subtitle: text / 0x74786574
Metadata:
creation_time : 1970-01-01 00:00:00
=============================================================
The resulting file appears to have chapter markers in the same format as the iTunes audiobook format, however the chapter markers don't show up in iTunes, QuickTime Player or on my iPhone. VLC however does recognize the chapter markers.
Can anybody point me in the right direction? I seem to be at a bit of an impasse here.
Edit: I am using iTunes 10.1.2 if that makes any difference.
Message was edited by: ttrutna

Hi,
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Compressor - export to Blu-ray with more than 6 chapter Markers?

Hi,
I'm interested in creating Blu-Ray discs. I've played around taking a self contained 30 minute movie I created with FCPro 7 - it has several chapter markers put in while editing in FCPro.
I took the SC movie and brought it into Compressor and burned directly to a DVD with the Chapter markers. It worked perfectly.
2 questions, if anyone has done this . . . if I buy a Blu-Ray burner and firewire it into my MacBook Pro - can I burn the Blu-Ray exactly like I did the conventional DVD? Except now it'll be High Definition? I'm guessing in COmpressor, when I 'selected' the internal DVD burner - I guess I'll see the new external Blu-Ray one after I firewire it into the MacBook Pro?
My question is, will it then burn to the Blu-Ray exactly like it did to the internal conventional DVD burner, except be in HD now?
I just don't want to buy a Blu-Ray burner and have something nt work? Thanks, if anyone can confirm this.
I also have Roxio Toast Titanium 11. But keeping it all in Compressor seems easier - with limited screens.
Oh, I only get 6 chapter markers on a screen thru Compressor. Any tricks as to how I can get more than 6? I have like 30, and I'd rather not go thru 5 screens getting to the end!
Thanks very much if anyone has any experience in this area.
Larry

Thank you, Shawn. You're confirming everything I thought!
Just asking . . . perhaps you have a few thoughts here:
- Is Compressor version 4 any "different" than 3.5 - as far as just dropping in a QT movie master to compress?
- I guess there's no way to get more than 6 Chapter Markers in Compressor DVD? I don't see a way, perhaps there is? Or . . . I have to learn toast! But I can do that! Just easier if Compressor would do it all!
Thanks again

GOP Structure Differs or Necessary Cell or Chapter Markers Missing?

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