Guidance on using 60P Frame Rate

Greetings All,
I am fairly experienced, but recently have begun to use 1080, 60P (new camera is Sony NEX7), and
wonder what are the editing pluses and minises in editing 60P into 30P or 24P timelines/projects?
I am working in FCPX on IMac. Yes I have tested workflows with good results, but I still wonder
how to retain the 60P in a 30P project in order to retain the slow motion. My assumption is the
60 frame originals are converted to 30P normally, with some exceptions.
To repeat, at times I want 60 frames and at times I want 30 frames in 30 frames/sec. projects.
The above has been addressed in other people's posts, but I did not completely understand the
explanations.
Thank you, Tom

Thank you, I understand what you say. But how to do it? It being my question. The camera
alows only 60 frames/sec. so I need to learn to use and apply the 60P data in a proper workflow.
To repeat, at times I want 60 frames and at times I want 30 frames in 30 frames/sec. projects.
Thank you for the guidance and interest.
Tom

Similar Messages

60P (Frame Rate: 59.94) No Audio

When I import into premiere AVCHD files (.m2ts) that are recorded at 60P with my Sony ea50uh there is no audio. When I "get properties for" the 60P file premiere doesn't give any information on the audio. There is audio because I hear it when I play it through my Sony PMB software on my computer.
Here's what the "get properties for" displays:
Type: MPEG Movie
Image Size: 1920 x 1080
Pixel Depth: 32
Frame Rate: 59.94
Average Data Rate: 3.3 MB / second
Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1.0
If I record in 24P with this camera premiere has no problems recognizing and importing the audio. Here's the "get properties for" 24P
Type: MPEG Movie
Image Size: 1920 x 1080
Pixel Depth: 32
Frame Rate: 23.976
Source Audio Format: 48000 Hz - compressed - Stereo
Project Audio Format: 48000 Hz - 32 bit floating point - Stereo
Average Data Rate: 2.8 MB / second
Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1.0
How can I fix premiere to bring in the audio for 60P video?

No, I want premiere to know accept it.
I got into AVCHD back when it first came out. I had to wait for Adobe to catch up, it took about 2 years before I could really edit AVCHD. This is probably just another case of "wait for Adobe to wake up and catch up".
I think if adobe isn't going to fix this issue or there isn't a practical solution the best thing would be for me to figure out how to export the audio from the 60P footage, that should be faster than rewrapping, transcoding it, or changing the frame rates. I don't want to change the frame rates, that defeats the entire purpose for shooting it in 60P, hence my saying in an earlier reply "I want to use it for slow motion, but I want to determine when to use it for slow montion in the editing process. When I shoot an event I don't have time to switch frame rates or even a way to anticipate when I will ultimately want it. So, I'd rather just shoot in 60p if there's a chance." Shooting in 60P and then slowing it down in premiere to 30P when I want slow motion. This presumably will enable me to transition smoothly from normal motion to slow when I want non destructively (I should emphasize presumably because I haven't done this yet, plan to tomorrow:))
So, maybe I just need to export the audio from the clips somehow and then bring that into premiere. Or try and different audio setting in the camera instead of LPCM. However, LPCM isn't a problem in the other with 24P or 30P when set to those in camera...

Poor Result using Panasonic Frame Rate Converter. Please Help!

Hey All,
Myself and a crew of other university filmmakers shot some footage at 720P and 60 FPS on the Panasonic HVX-100 with the hopes of converting it to 24fps for smooth slow motion. We are using FCP 5.1.2 and the panasonic DVCPROHD Frame Rate Converter Tool. I am almost certain I am using the correct workflow for this, but the result yields footage that seems to be at the right speed, but is very jumpy, as if its only playing every 4th frame or so. I tried exporting the footage off the timeline as well to check and make sure it wasnt a playback problem, and it wasnt. It appears as if the converter is working incorrectly. This slow motion is vital for our project and I'm at my wits end trying to figure it out. Any help?

Ok. I tried converting making sure that i didnt remove any frames on the import from the raw P2, as well as for the export. i tried all the combos of this. I still get the jumpy slow motion because of repeatyed frames. I did notice a combo in these repeated frames, it will play 3 of one frame, then 2 of another. could this be a pulldown problem somewhere?
could you guys outline the settings you use to import (capture and editing timebases) as well as to edit on, and to process slow motin. I just want to make sure im not missing anything.
The help is SO awesome. thanks for trying to work through this with me.

Can I import clips using a frame rate of 60 or higher?

I have a sony cx260v that allows me to record in a rate of 60 fps. However when I attempt to upload the footage taken in this frame rate to iMovie 11 9.0.4 it shows as a blocked clip and does not allow me to upload.
Any ideas?

Yes, you can re-import them, but it's not that straightforward, and you loose some quality in the process. Search for "MPEG Streamclip" or "DVD camcorder" in this forum, and you will find lots of answers.
Alternatively, you can make data DVDs with your DV clips. Simply pop in an empty DVD, and drap the DV clips you want to export into the burn folder. A normal DVD can hold about 20 minutes of DV clips, a dual layer DVD twice as much.

Sony Handycam 60p frame rate

I want to buy a cheap consumer Sony Handycam (~$300). It says it captures at 60p (1980 x 1080) as opposed to 60i in most other models. Do you know if Premiere Pro CS6 can import/edit natively 60p footage (or do I need some type of conversion?).
I heard 60p was going to be the new standard? Any thoughts on the benefits/drawbacks and compatibility of 60p?
Thanks.

Like Jim correctly stated it will not likely ever be a new standard for any broadcast stations(anytime soon). Here is the main reason why. In OTA TV broadcast each channel gets 19.39Mbps of bandwidth. Several broadcast networks currently have mutliple sub channels on the same channel (Including where I work).
When you're dealing with 1080i/29.97 you have to have your bitrate set around at least 11Mbps to achieve a decent looking result (even with stat muxing unless the picture is really static), with the way encoders in the brodcast world currently work. Then if you add in trying to also fit two sub-channels that are SD you're basically almost at your MAX bandwidth. Basically if you attempted to broadcast 1080p/60 you'd have to use more bandwidth than what is allotted to achieve even a decent looking picture. So the way things look right now, I would say its highly unlikely to see anyone in the broadcast world broadcasting at 1080p/60 as long the current 19.39Mbps limit is in place for OTA TV in the USA.
To answer your other question though Premiere pro cs6 can indeed handle 1080p/60 footage without any conversion needed. You just need to have a system that meets adobe's spec requirements.

Which format and frame rate should I use?

So I have worked here and there with final cut to make videos for live projections at music shows, but now I want to take it more seriously. Since I have done it randomly I didn't mind taking the time to render constantly and figure it out as I go. But now I want to work on larger projects, like making music videos, a little more consistently and want things to run a little faster.
Basically I have about 200 gb of random footage. Or about 400 little videos. Very little of it is actually shot with a camera on my own. Most of it is collected video from either other people, or downloaded off the internet. Tons of things that are in the public domain that I want to use. My videos are pretty fast paced, almost seizure inducing sort of effects. I layer videos with each other and throw filters on everything. The problem is, the rendering is taking so much time out of everything. Is there a way for me to get around the rendering? Either by a certain setting within final cut, or just by converting all my video to one format? If I had to I would invest the time to convert every single video I have to some sort of format that would allow me to work faster. If so, which format should I use? Frame rate? etc.
I would just like to get this out of the way so in the future I can convert videos to the right format. Just to allow some sort of flow within my workspace.
I am using FCP 7
Model Name: MacBook Pro
Model Identifier: MacBookPro5,3
Processor Name: Intel Core 2 Duo
Processor Speed: 3.06 GHz
Number Of Processors: 1
Total Number Of Cores: 2
L2 Cache: 6 MB
Memory: 8 GB
Bus Speed: 1.07 GHz

You want to be on this forum
Final Cut Studio

Log and transfer not changing frame rate to slow motion on P2 cards...

Hello.
I swear I have done this before on final cut studio 2 and it came out correctly, but for some reason this time, either myself or the computer is making an error. (chances are it's me).
Basically, I'm logging and transferring footage that was shot on P2 at 50 fps, and my intention is to import it at 23.98 fps. I thought this is something that naturally happens in the log and transfer process, but i guess not?
My project was set up via easy set up at panasonic dvcproHD frame rate 23.98... and I'm logging an d transferring directly into my browser but the f frame rate stays at 50 fps. (footage was shot in England to be incorporated into a video already shot in America).

I thought this is something that naturally happens in the log and transfer process, but i guess not?
Your guess is right...it DOES NOT slow it down upon injest. ONLY if you set the camera up to shoot 720p25 and then choose the 50 frame rate (I hear this is what you do...I am not a camera guy, so...), then it will import slowed down. But you have to set the camera up CORRECTLY. The first time I imported slow mo, it was 60p...and I had to use the Frame Rate Converter to slow the clips. Then my camera guy figured out the setting in camera and BOOM...there it was.
So...I guess you are NOT wrong...actually. It just needs to be set up IN CAMERA in order to do what you want.
and I don't know if the Frame Rate Converter works for PAL footage...stupid, but...no...Stupid.
Shane

Canon Vixia HF20 and "Progressive" frame rates: how do you edit them in PE7, or any PE version?

My owner's manual is splayed before me: I have these options with my Canon HF20 Camcorder:
I can record video in: 60i (standard) - I guess they mean "default"
I can also record in PF30 and PF24.
It says this:
PF30: 30 frames per second, progressive. Use this frame rate to easily edit your recordings, for example, to post them on the Web.
(I do post my videos on the web: indeed that is all I do with them. The Web is a free storage closet that we get as a bonus, by paying for monthly Internet charges.)
My manual also says this:
PF24: 24 frames per second. progressive. (That is what it says - progressive.) Using this frame rate will give you recordings a cinematic look. When combined with the Cine Mode recording program, the cinematic look will be enhanced.
I have noticed no interesting differences. And editing these .mts files is a pain, no matter what format one uses.
I am wondering if anyone is in a similar situation, regarding AVCHD and editing problems using any version of PE.
I constantly have trouble with artifacts - ghosting - combing - all manner of problems, which is enhanced by using the available HD. That is, in 1920x1080, the drop-frame system creates highly compressed, problematic files.
These are hard to edit, but can be done decently using a kind of sleight of hand. I often downgrade 1920x1080 to 720p in editing, just to get the jumpy quality to look decent. This usually works.
I wonder what others do. I really miss 8mm. ... sylvester

The 60i setting should work best with PRE with the Full HD 1080i preset.
As for performance that can be highly dependant on your system and how it is set up. By default most PC's startup with a whole load of cr*p provided by your supplier - all of which can eat into your performance. Anti-Virus software (especially McAfee) can cripple PRE. Try working through the steps in this article: PrE Hanging, or Crashing - Some Tips. If that doesn't solve your issue then this article lists the things we need to know about your system and clips - Got a Problem? How to Get Started
Cheers,
Neale
Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

Variable Frame Rate

If I have clips that were recorded at different frame rates, say 24fps and 60fps, and I put them in the same video project, how does PE11 handle this? Will it cause issues or lower the quality?

AudreyRose2012
Slow motion for your 1080p60 will be achieved in either of three ways in Expert workspace (project preset no part of this):
a. Interpret Footage. Frame Rate section of the Interpret Footage dialog. Right click file in Project Assets, select Interpret Footage, and, in Frame Rate section, dot Assume this frame rate, and type in your wanted frame rate)
b. Time Stretch. Set Duration for less than 100%. This will increase the length of the video and apply a slow motion effect.
c. Time Remapping.
http://tv.adobe.com/watch/learn-premiere-elements-11/time-remapping-with-adobe-premiere-el ements-11/
Until proven otherwise, I would use the
NTSC AVCHD AVCHD 1080p60 project preset
and apply Interpret Footage to that video for which you want a slow motion effect. You could also consider Time Remapping feature with or without Frame Blend option that is built into Time Remapping.
I never use the frame rate same as source for exporting. It typically does it own thing under those circumstance and that is not always the frame rate that should have been. I would take the time to specify the frame rate in export along with all the rest of the export settings.
If you are going to upload your Expert workspace Timeline to Vimeo, I would try the settings suggested by SG...that is, Publish+Share/Computer/AVCHD with Presets = VimeoHD. The default there is 1280 x 720, so I would customize the setting under the Advanced Button/Video Tab of that preset to give 1920 x 1080. Set the Level and Profile first, so that you can type in the 1920 x 1080 values. Then you would upload the AVCHD.mp4 file that you obtain and upload it to Vimeo at the Vimeo web site.
In the following Export Settings dialog for that export. I have the frame rate set for 59.94 progressive frames per second. Depending on your project plan, you can reset that to your preference
If you decide to upload your Expert workspace Timeline to Vimeo via the program's Publish+Share/Online/Vimeo with Presets = VimeoHD, you cannot change the 1280 x 720 resolution there.
Please review all comments and let SG know of your progress.
Thanks.
ATR

Multiple Frame rate's??

My english is not .. excellent.. but i think u'll
understand.. Just, keep that in mind :)
Soo, my question is... Does exist any solution which provides
using different frame rate's (fps) in one .. scenee
For example.. one animation has a 20 fps. & anotherr
hasss 30... but they're in the same scene, or file... Does that
possible, or is there something that can help me whit this
situation. ?

Okett.... So, is there any optionn or tip orr action... that
cann make faster speed to some object..?

Frame Rate Converter wobblies

Anyone had this problem.
Digitise footage from a Panasonic AG1200 at 60fps (for Varicam DVCPRO HD)
Use the Frame Rate Converter to create reference clips from the original footage (ie 60fps to 24) then import this reference clip to discover that is actually points to another clip that I've not even touched yet. Annoying.
Second annoyance. The Frame Rate Converter throws up a message saying "The selected media file (media file name) cannot be processed by this tool. Only DCVPRO HD 720p 59.94 and 50 fps media files are supported"
Inspection of the media file shows it to be fully compatible and is even from the same tape as ones that work fine previous (ie no camera alterations)
I always feel the same working with FCP, even after all these years. Initial success followed by a gradual downfall of media reference mash up and confusion and ultimate meltdown.
My solution now will be to go the more time consuming route of creating new quicktimes from the original media and importing those into the project.
Any thoughts appreciated.

how many hours do I have to loose in production discovering these issues before I can sit down and actually do the 'creative' stuff.
This comes from experience. And this is true for any editing system. You don't know that a "feature" doesn't work right until you find out yourself, or if you happen to work with someone who knows that "hey, that feature doesn't work right." I always did the self contained thing until I worked with another guy on a project. He started doing the REF thing and it seemed to streamline the production. Until it came time to lock the show and prep it for output. Then we had relinking issues. So we had to go back, make self contained files, link to those, then replace the REF ones in the sequence. And no, we won't do that again.
Before these forums this was something found out on the job from other editors. Or by yourself thru experience. But because you bring this up, not others who didn't know about this issue might be able to avoid it.
Now, I have a blog where I write about my experiences in editing, and share my pitfalls and successes so that this information can get out there. I was always frustrated with some feature or another on an Avid until I went to a company with 15 editors, and one of them goes "Oh, that? I figured out a way to do that..." and then they showed me. These forums are a GLOBAL way of sharing that information.
Until now, your issue really hadn't come up. And I will have to confess that I didn't blog about it. Dunno why, I should. But now many others will benefit from this experience. And if you hang out here daily, or even a couple days a week and read thru the posts, you will find all sorts of problems you can avoid.
Shane

Frame Rate Interpolation

I would, if possible, love to know a method for improving the overall frame rate of a flash movie using interpolation. I'm not talking about videos delivered through a flash player such as YouTube or Vimeo, but rather vector animations that were common before the days of mainstream internet video. Each flash video consists of manually defined shapes and key frames. These key frames are used to determine inbetweening, or interpolation, motion effects. Since movements, shape transformations, etc are all based on keyframes (scrolling backgrounds and zooms for example) it should be possible to "tween" the master frame rate to 60fps or higher correct? There is a whole host of good stuff from years past (Weebls-stuff, Ebolaworld, Homestar Runner, Newgrounds, etc.) and many of those use low frame rates (one series uses only 12fps) due to performance limitations of yesterday's machines.
What are your thoughts, and has anyone considered attempting to improve old Flash movies in this way?

Try this process.
It was originally developed to create 24p DV files, but can also be used to convert NTSC to PAL (and quite well I might add). The details are in the Read Me.
Going from AVI to MOV is another issue, though. Not sure how specifically to do that one as I'm really not a Mac fan.

9400M intermittent low frame-rate : let's get heard !

hello
i have the exact same problem described on this thread
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2085771&tstart=1
" Has anyone else noticed, the performance of the NVIDIA 9400M graphics chip is intermittent. Sometimes everything will be fast and smooth and fluid, and suddenly it will switch to having a low frame rate.
A good example of this is in iPhoto's Full-Screen Edit mode. As you tap through the image with the right/left arrows, the animation can be quite jerky and slow. Then suddenly it will switch to being really fast.
Have Apple just not optimised the NVIDIA 9400M graphics drivers yet? Will its performance be better in the near future? "
sam problem, except it's on a 24" iMac . (latest one - 2 X 2.66 ghz + 4go RAM + 9400m)
the problem happens constantly when i use my firewire soundcard. guess what : i'm a musician, and my firewire soundcard is on all the time !
it also happens when i copy files from my external firewire hard disk, or if i use my macbook on target mode.
the only way to make this problem disappear is to switch to 1280 X 960 resolution (or below). therefore the 9400M has enough power to overcome the drain created by ... either bad drivers or a problem with firewire... i don't know.
anyone knows when the drivers will be updated ? if a new firmware is in the work ?
thanks
Message was edited by: Bontempi

i guess not so many people use the firewire 800 port.
had to pay 15 euros to get a 800>400 cable, so no wonder ...
here's my bug report
hello
here's my setup :
iMac 2.66 ghz / 4 gigs of RAM / 640 go HD / Nvidia 9400M graphic chip
Leopard 10.5.7
when any firewire device is in use, the frame rate switches from fast / fluid to slow / lag-ish.
simply launching Dashboard shows the frame rate drop. same problem with Expose.
the problem happens exactly the same weither i use my firewire soundcard (echo audiofire 8), my external hard drive (WD mybook 750 go) or my macbook in target mode.
the problem disappears when i turn off my soundcard, or when the external hard drive is idle. another way to "fix" the problem is switching to a lower resolution ( 1280 X 960 ).
i've spent more than 30 minutes with apple on the phone, we did a lot of tests, and the technician came to the conclusion the computer was perfectly working.
this definitely looks like a driver problem.
i've started a discussion about the matter here :
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2085911&tstart=0
some users have the same problem :
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1959109&tstart=0
please keep me up to date
thanks
matthieu
Message was edited by: Bontempi

I want to play video on my computer to make some analysis to frames,the problem that I face ,I can't change video frame rate using labview,but I can change frame rate to the video out of labview using some program

HI All
I want to play video on my computer to make some analysis to it's frames,the problem that I face ,I can't change video frame rate using labview,but I can change frame rate to the video out of labview using some program .
I used IMAQ AVI Read Frame VI
for example I have avi video It's frame rate is 25 fbs ,my image processing code is very fast that can process more 25 fbs,so I want to accelerate video acquisition

Hi abdelhady,
I looked into this further, and reading an AVI file into LabVIEW faster than its frames per second won't be possible. LabVIEW could read in frames faster than 25fps, but because it will be pulling the available frame at that point in time this would just give you duplicate frames. If you want to be able to read in frames at faster than 25fps, you would need to speed up your AVI file before reading into LabVIEW.
There's a good shipping example to show how to read in from an AVI file, "Read AVI File.vi". You'll notice that they add timing to make sure that the while loop runs at the right speed to match up with the frames per second of the file being read. This is to make sure you're not reading duplicate frames.
Thank you,
Emily C
Applications Engineer
National Instruments

How to determine the accuracy of the frame rate using a Basler sca640-70gm?

To whom it may concern
I am guessing that the time between each frame varies from a nominal set frame rate.
How do I set that nominal frame rate?
How do I determine what the actual (frame by frame) frame rate or time between frames was in post pressing of the "video" image.
Thank you,
Todd
Solved!
Go to Solution.

It is almost impossible to measure the frame rate accurately by measuring the time between consecutive frames. The latency of sending the images over the ethernet means they won't arrive at the computer with the same exact spacing they were taken at. Also, measuring the length of one short interval in LabVIEW is also very difficult. Windows latencies and other issues could make your measurement be off by quite a bit.
The only way I can see to verify the frame rate is to use a digital input into a counter and wire the shutter signal directly from the camera into the digital input. You could program the counter to measure between the rising edges of the shutter signal, and you would find out the frame rate is indeed very accurate and repeatable.
The only other way I know to accurately measure the frame rate in LabVIEW is to measure the time over a large number of frames (thousands) and divide the number of frames by the total time. Any minor errors in measuring the timing of a single frame go away with the large number of frames.
Bruce
Bruce Ammons
Ammons Engineering

Guidance on using 60P Frame Rate

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