HDV 25p Final Cut Workflow Question

Hello,
After reading a lot of material I'm trying to come to some conclusion about which workflow to use, to balance between: the lower spec system I've got, getting fine graphic elements, being able to take the project through Color, and to end with an HD(V) master project file.
It would be great if others with experience with these issues could comment on the workflow I'm proposing.
I'm running an iMac with the latest Final Cut Studio programs and one 500GB firewire drive for video and render files.
Workflow:
1 - Camera aquisition is with Canon's HV20 - HDV 25p
2 - Capture over firewire to a 25p HDV sequence
3 - Edit in HDV (with the Render Codec as ProRes 422 - in User Preferences)
4 - Add any Motion files, Titles, LiveType or whatever else needs to go in the timeline
5 - When complete, duplicate the sequence and change the settings in the new sequence to ProRes 422
6 - Render Timeline as full ProRes 422
7 - Export to Color, render Color files out and place in a new ProRes 422 timeline
8 - Export self-contained Quicktime with current settings as the Master
Comments please. I'm no expert, but I'm trying to settle on a decent workflow.
If I'm right, this should make one conversion from HDV to ProRes 422 before going through Color (while also taking advantage of ProRes for the rendering of all the Motion graphics and Title clips). Then one further render coming out of Color.
It seems pretty clean and not to extanious for my system, although I'm still working on the theory.
Any workflow experts, please advise!
Thanks,
Matt
Yoga Maya Films - http://www.yogamayafilms.com
The Film Producer's Podcast - http://www.yogamayafilms.com/podcast

No one?
The main part I'm wondering about is:
HDV timeline, but render settings to ProRes and then moving the whole thing to render out as a ProRes file (possibly going through Color at that point - and if so, coming back to a ProRes timeline and doing a self-contained Quicktime export).
I basically said it all in the first post. If someone's tried it, or has a better work flow for HDV it would be great to hear.
Matt

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Editing HDV in Final Cut Pro 6...

Greetings fellow forum friends
I work in a film company. We are currently on a preproductional stage, aiming for a feature lenght high def dv film. I am still quite new to the HD scene so I was wondering if anyone with experience could guide me through it.
To begin with, can I use HDV in Final Cut Pro 6, with a Macbook Pro 2.16 (duo core) and 2GB RAM?
Best regards,
- Felexion

I'm with Jerry and the rest...don't cripple your production by using the VERY CONSUMER AVCHD format. Do yourself a favor and get an HVX-200 and shoot proper HD. You won't be able to work with AVCHD in the native format anyway, you'll need to transcode it to Apple Intermediate Codec or ProRes. And all the AVCHD cameras are really on the small handycam consumer level.
WOrk at a film company...get a decent camera.
Shane

Canon EOS 7-D/Workflow Final cut Pro questions.

Today i just upgraded my final cut pro from 5 to the latest 7.0.3, and im having trouble viewing my clips.
First off, im very confused.
http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller?act=GetArticleAct&articleID=3249
i read this entire article and still cant view my clip in the timeline. Here's what im doing.
I plugged in my card into a card reader,
next i opened final cut pro, and i opened up log and transfer.
my clips are all there, and i can preview them all.
Step 3 is what confuses me.
3. In the Import Preferences window, select 'Canon DSLR' as your Source, and then select the Transcode to format of your choice (such as ProRes 422).
when i open up my settings/preferences in the log/transfer settings i cant seem to find "canon dslr, or how to make it my "source".
instead, i see AVCHD PLugin, P2 PLug in, MPEG2 Consumer Cameras, and Canon E1. i selected the Obvious Canon E1 (because thats the plug in you download) and when i added it to the queue it finished and i am still unable to see it in the right window. There's audio but the screen is white.
So the burning questions i have..
What am i doing wrong?
What do you use for your easy format or custom format?

First don't use Final Cut to import directly from the card. Use Disc Utility to make a new image of the card from your card reader onto a hard drive. Make a back up copy of this by dragging it to another drive if possible. Now if anything goes wrong you are secure. Open one of these disk images and log and transfer from them with FCP.
You do this by opening log and transfer window. Use the top left button in the window to point to the files. On the other side of the left pane at the top open preferences, select the Canon E1 but then double click the little arrows which should open another window and offer a selection of versions of ProRes, choose Apple ProRes or ProRes LT, anything higher is overkill. Select the files you want and add them to the import queue. They should start importing automatically. You should be able to see files appearing in logging bin progressively. Whilst the import is happening do not touch anything else in FCP, allow the whole import to finish before playing with them.

Exporting to Final Cut Studio questions.

Hi Everyone.
Sorry for the rookie question. I have been searching for answers and found a few things about exporting but have a few question I was hoping someone could answer.
I have created a project in LiveType. It's 10seconds long. 720x480, square pixels, progressive. Final output will be on QT. The video is heavy on effects and takes about 2-3 minutes to render.
Which file do I use in FCPro? The LiveType file or the QT file that LiveType Renders? I was using the actual LiveType file that way if I have any changes I can go back... change it in LiveType and then it updates in FinalCut. However... that requires a lot of rendering time in FinalCut. Is that the proper process of importing and exporting between the two?
Also... I have the LiveType file exactly how I want it. I thought FinalCut might have an easier time using a QT file from LiveType. However, when I render from LiveType the .MOV file is 350megs... that seems kind of large to me for 10 seconds. When I import it into FinalCut I still have to render it, which takes forever and then if I add a transition it has to render that as well. My settings are the same for in Final Cut as they are in LiveType. I was hoping for a faster process. Why does FCPro have to render my .mov file if it's already 720x480, progressive, 30fps... all setting are identical?
Thanks in advance. Feel like I'm really close to understanding all that is going on... just looking for a little bit more guidance.

Hi Doug thanks for the reply.
I'm going to be showing this using QT that's why I want square pixels. It's never going to be shown on a TV screen. It's going to be projected using a projector to a screen. I like the look of a more rectangular image.
I'll stick with the .ipr workflow. Thanks for the advice.
I have another question. When I render my LiveType animation does it render it uncompressed? Is that why the .mov file it creates is so big? At a duration of 10 second the .mov file is about 350MB. When I import it into FinalCut it takes forever to render and work with... so does the .ipr file.
Is there anything I can do to speed up this process?
When LiveType finishes rendering my animation I created it opens the rendered .mov file for playback. I ended up saving it from this position using the .264 compression. Which took the .mov file down to 7megs and final cut is able to handle it much better. Is this OK?
Thanks again.

PC to Final Cut Pro Questions

Hi,
I am a long time PC user and recently purchased a MacBook Pro and love it. It has a dual core 2.5 processor and 4 gigs of ram. I am thinking of getting FCP and was wondering a few things about it. How is the rendering time? How does it handle HDV files? Is there a lot rendering with HDV files? How are the filters, especially does it have an old movie filter? How is the slow motion? Can you create a .m2v file from the timeline to import in to Adobe Encore to create a Blu-Ray disc for HD delivery? When you purchase a copy of FCP, how many machines can you put it on?
Thank you,
Dwayne Gitter

Try not to over use the effects that came with Final Cut that much, there are some good but be carefull and not over use them, I told you this based on my own experiences haha and also if you make something musical there´s the cool multiclip that works like a swither on TV, I just found it and I love it.
I was working also with a PC editing with Sony Vegas and I can tell you that even that is faster and manage sound a little better, well you have soundtrack so it doesn´t matter, you will notice the improvement of using Final Cut. At least I did it, it was like cutting with a rounded not sharp enough sissors and then changging to a sharp, finness sissors.
Ok, you get the point, hehe, The thing is that yes, you should buy Final Cut but don´t relay that much on the effects. Try to do everthing while filming or videotapping not becuse they are bad but becuse it looks better.

A few final cut pro questions...

hey i was wondering if final cut pro 5.0 is compatible on leopard. if not is it compatible on mac OS X 10.4.9? and is final cut express 4 better then final cut pro HD(4.5). or should i buy final cut pro HD(4.5) and forget about FCE 4. leave your opinion about FCE 4 and FCP HD and if you know tell me about FCP 5.0 and leopard.

5.0 is not compatible with intel machines... 5.1 was the first version that did, and is no longer available, and wasn't free either. You need to upgrade to Studio 2 to run FCP on your machine.
FCP 4.5 (HD) also won't run on an intel mac...
FCE 4 will run on an intel Mac, however FCP HD is a ton more robust than FCE anything.
FCE might be all you need though. Depends on what you want to do... So what might that be? What format do you intend to edit? What sort of work is it etc... If you're a working professional, then there's no question FCS 2 is where you should be looking.
Jerry

Messed up import of HDV from Final Cut Pro

(I also posted this in the iMovie forum)
I am working on a project in Final Cut Pro, but I want to make use of some of iMovie's effects, like certain titling effects.
The program is an HDV project, which in FCP makes it a 1080i60 project.
I took the clip I wanted to work on and exported it as a quicktime movie, full resolution. The codec involved was HDV 1080i60.
When I tried to import this clip into iMovie, I created a new iMovie project with HDV; apparently this uses 1080i30. I imported the clip; it showed up horizontally shrunk and distorted.
When I just play the clip with QuickTime Player (prior to import into iMovie), it looks fine.
Am I not doing this right? How can I work on HDV clips from FCP in iMovie (and then get them back to FCP)?

Given that there are over 150 clips, and 4 tapes, that would be a significant problem.
Also, I am using Final Cut Studio, not Final Cut Express (which isn't universal and won't run properly on my MacBook Pro anyway).

Final cut workflow

Hi!
I am very new to Final Cut Pro and have already bumped into a problem.. When using files from the book Final Cut Pro 7 -Diana Weynand everything was running very smoothly. But when I started using my own clips, shot with the Canon Mark 2 (at the highest resolution) I noticed the playhead stopped for a fraction of a second at the end of the clips and sometimes stopping completely with the warning that appears on the top. I was wandering if I need to compress those files before using them in the timeline or perhaps is there anything else I am doing wrong?
Thanks a lot for your help!
Regards
Mitja

Welcome to the forums.
Yeah, the H.264 Quicktime format that the camera shoots to is not really editable in FCP. POSSIBLE, but very painful. Best to convert to an editing codec like ProRes. Warning, the file sizes will increase.
YOu can do that with MPEG STREAMCLIP (free, Google it), or with this workflow in FCP that uses Log and Transfer...a tutorial: Tapeless Workflow for FCP 7 Tutorial
Good luck
Shane

Capture HDV without Final Cut?

I am on a shoot in a country that is known for confiscating tapes. Therefore, I need to have a backup of everything I shoot. Unfortunately, my plan of using a Firestore FS-4 failed when it broke 4 days into my shoot. My Mac does not have Final Cut on it and I can't find a way to download it. Is there any way to capture HDV with a program other than Final Cut?

Sorry no.
I am surprised when you say iMovie captures at 1/8 speed.
I haven't tried it with AIC but I have tested FCE and my iMac was able to capture in realtime.
I can't see why iMovie should be so slow. Even if you have a very old, slow computer it shouldn't take more than 30% longer than realtime.
Have you been using iMovie 08? The much more "professional" iMovie 06 can be downloaded free here:-
http://support.apple.com/downloads/iMovieHD6

Final Cut Noob question

Hi all,
New to Final Cut after sending my Avid packing. I won't miss it. I used Media 100 and Premier for years back in the 90's, so the Final Cut interface feels very familar. The one question I have is, can you turn off the video that displays over most of the screen during capture. This stuttering video drives me nuts and It covers most of the timeline and canvas. The capture display shows a set of color bars and says video disabled during this. I'm sure that you can display the video in this screen during capture by setting the video display settings, but between reading the manual and turning to my computer, my mind seems to be dropping a few frames. Can anyone lead me in the right direction. Thanks!

Nope, I'm afraid you will have to put up with that stuttering silent video .......... it can't be turned off - or the sound turned on.
The fact that it is covering part of the FCE interface should not matter as it is very inadviseable to attempt to use your computer whilst it is capturing.
If you don't like it, stick a plant pot in front of the monitor.

How do I capture HDV in Final Cut Pro 6.0.6 from a Sony HDR-CX360?

Hi. I recently upgraded to a Sony HDR-CX360 Camera. I've been importing off of Firewire with my older cameras. Now I face only being able to import with USB. It is not recognizing the camera. How do I import with this kind of camera and Final Cut Pro 6.0.6.? It works fine with iMovie.

Hi,
There are a couple of things I would do in your position .. first off make sure the camera is turned on and connected BEFORE I start FCP. another would be to run up system profiler and have a look in FireWire - and see (obviously with the camera connected) is it listed in there .. If not in effect the MAC is not seeing the camera and Failing that if it is a six pin on the camera connect to a six pin port .. I had issues with a Camera (Canon XHA1s) which the MAC Pro FireWire (8 pin) would not list the camera until I installed an two port 6 pin FireWire card .. It works every time now. Hope you get it sorted ..
Jim

Why does my 4:3 miniDV video keep getting captured as 16:9? (Vidi/Final Cut Pro question)

This is partially related to Final Cut Studio, although not necessarily. I've been trying to back up dozens of my miniDV tapes on to my harddrive for several months now, racing against the clock as their video quality starts to degrade. Since Final Cut Pro started giving me problems with the timecode breaks, I started using a capture program called Vidi instead (v0.4.7) Everything was capturing well, considering, until just last week where several of my tapes, which were shot in 4:3, would capture as 16:9. That is, the video files were clearly stretched to a 16:9 aspect ratio and appeared distorted. Today I tried to go back to Final Cut (v6.0.6) to capture it the old way, and, lo and behold, the video was once again being stretched to 16:9.
A few things:
- I'm about as sure as I can be that these tapes were shot in 4:3. I've watched them several times on my TV and they are played back in 4:3, with the black bars on the left and right.
- I had actually captured video previously from one of these tapes a few years back and it recorded as a 4:3 video file, just as it should.
- I definitely have "4:3" checked off in Vidi when I capture the video. What's even more infuriating, is that BOTH Vidi and Final Cut show the video playing in its 4:3 aspect ration during apture. It's only when I check the captured file that it's been stretched to 16:9
- A tape I shot in 2008 captured perfectly with Vidi today - in it's 4:3 format. That seems to imply that it's not a software setting issue.
I'm starting to lose my mind with this, especially since I haven't found a single reference to this problem anywhere else. All I want is to get the raw DV data off of these tapes to work with at a future date, and I'd like it to be exactly as it was originally shot, not distorted. Maybe some bit of code on these tapes got messed up over time, resulting in capture software to think it was shot in 16:9? These tapes aren't anywhere near my oldest ones - they're from 2010 and 2011. Is there something obvious I'm missing when I capture these videos? If there's no other solution, is it possible to squeeze them back to 4:3? It might not look as good as if were captured in it's native format, but I'm out of ideas.

Not sure if it makes any difference for archiving purposes, but dv files (dv streams) are not generally recommended for use in fcp. .mov with the dv codec is how fcp captures SD video via firewire. Someone a few months ago claimed that .dv was fine with fcp, but I seem to remember that audio will always need to be rendered and since I always use fcp for capture of DV material, it's not an issue for me.
You can use compressor to both convert to .mov with the dv codec and reset the anamorphic flag. Not sure if there will be any loss of quality, so it might be worth testing this. Perhaps someone with more knowledge will speak up regarding this or alternative methods of converting .dv to .mov
What problems are you having capturing from within fcp? Shouldn't be a problem. I find that setting the easy setup correctly is crucial for successful capturing. Even if all the individual elements that seem to compose the easy set up are correct, there can still be problems. Perhaps you might want to start a new thread regarding your capture problems and we can see if we can solve the problem.

Final Cut Pro question

i want to make high def. blu ray dvd's in dvd studio pro or iDVD. you can only do that in final cut pro share and that is too cheap/easy. example: adobe cs5 is compatible to make blu ray high def. dvd's on encore. i believe that there can be a resolution to this problem. i need to work more professional for my business. i dont want to change from this software, for i worked adobe premiere cs2 and it was not good. i found final cut pro a lot better. now, i find better cs5.
thank you for giving up your time to read my post and i hope someone can help me out with this problem or something can fix this.

What are your export settings when you export the text? You could be uneccessarily adding compression to the image when you don't need it. Also, the computer display is never the best place to get an accurate view of your video. Try watching it on a monitor or TV, and see if the problem persists.
And yes, direct export to mpeg2 (m2v and aiff) is fine. To burn a data CD use a program like Roxio Toast or Tiger's own built in DVD burning software.

What does modified file mean? and other Final Cut Library questions...

1.After updating to Libraries and the newest version of Final Cut X some of my media including multi cam clips and regualr clips show the red "modified media" screen. How do I get rid of this and get it back to the original media? Do I relink project files??
2. Before I updated to Libraries I was running all my media as proxy. Now that I have updated, I have to run it as optimized or origional or a red "Missing Proxy" screen appear. How can I go back to using proxy media?
3. Before I updated to the Libraries and the newest version of Final Cut X I would store my raw footage on external harddrive 1 and I would create all my projects under harddrive 2. I was told that its much better to do it this way because it puts less strain on external harddrives. Is this true? Also, if I choose to keep doing it this way, how would I do this with the new Libraries set up?
4-Whats the best way to backup Libraries on multiple harddrives in case a harddrive fails? I used to be able to back up just the projects but now when I try to back up a Library it's too many gigs.
Any advice would be great.

I upgraded to 10.0.1 in the middle of a complex multicam (6 Sony XDCam 422 HD @ 50 MB/Sec) with many effect/title/transitions w/o any issues - so I keep wondering -- what's happening with others?
Yes, relink to original (if needed) transcode more proxies/optimised (if needed). Inside of your libraries (control click in finder) you should be able to see all that is there in the package contents - but don't alter anything in the Finder.
Since I upgraded, I routinely generate masters ofo my daily Projects in PorRes and copy to my Lacie Raid. I copy the new (daily) library(s) to the Lacie then delete the ones from the previous day (this Takes time as I secure delete) - i update the Final Cut Pro Backups folder to the lacie every day. Once a week I use Carbon Copy Cloner to backup whatever has changed (and archive what is unique to the b/u drive) via a USB 3 drive.
The Libraies are getting huge but I prefer working off my internal Flash storage because it is so fast. I never used to do that - I preached putting "scrtach" on a drive seperate from OS but now my internal is so big and fast & since it is PCIe Flash & doesn't write like platters- I'm in love with the speed of renders and exports. I work from it.
That is what I do & haven't had a hiccup. Theonly surprise is that System Pal has twice shown me that I was down to only a few megs of ram (from 16 gigs). So I watch that.
Good luck

First time Final Cut beginner question- how to get the timeline back?

The first time I opened Final Cut on my own, I accidentally closed the timeline box. How do I get it back?
~Krista

Hmm...that's strange. Try this: From the FCE menu bar, select Window>Arrange>Standard
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http://fcpbook.com/Misc1.html

HDV 25p Final Cut Workflow Question

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