How can I mix (and shuffle) both podcasts and music?

The former version of Itunes and the ipod update that went along with it, allowed my ipod to helpfully shuffle both podcasts, and songs, randomly.
While driving, I could play a podcast, and then a song would come up, and then maybe another song, or a podcast, without having to look down and select a particular podcast to play next.
With this new version, I have to play each podcast individually, which is a pain in the neck. If I select shuffle songs, and start with a podcast, it will play the podcast, and then never return to another podcast.
I've tried making a playlist with both music and podcasts on it, but that doesn't work either.
Is there a way to shuffle, or randomly play, both podcasts and music? I thought this would be a simple setting matter, but I can't seem to find the answer anywhere.

Aha - I did it. Switch off Voice-over, then add a sorted playlist. Fingers crossed...

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How can I mix (and shuffle) both podcasts and music?

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