How timecode counts in 720p24 drop frame ?

This might be a slightly OT question, since it doesn't apply just to FCP, but its more general.
As any +drop frame+ timecode, also p24 drop frame (actually running at 23.976 fps) must have some timecode numbers dropped; I guess about 14 (14,4 in theory) in 10 minutes or about 29 in 20 minutes.
My question is: which timecode values are dropped in this case?
To clarify my question: in the case of p30 or i60 +drop frame+ (actually running at 29.97 fps) I know that 18 timecodes are dropped every 10 minutes, and they are exactly 2 timecodes each minute, except minutes 0, 10, 20, etc. So hh:01:00;01, hh:01:00;02, hh:02:00;01, hh:02:00;02, etc. are dropped; but hh:00:00;01, hh:00:00;02, hh:00:10;01, hh:00:10;02, etc. are NOT dropped...
Then, in case of 24p +drop frame+ which values area dropped ?
Thanks
Piero

THis isn't just FCP. 23.98 is non-drop period. On tape, on FCP, on Avid, on Premiere. 23.98 DROP FRAME code does not exist.
So when it plays from 00:10:00:00 (and say you started at 00:00:00:00), it will read 00:10:00:00. But in ACTUAL time it will be 00:10:00:14.
Getting proper ACTUAL time from 23.98 is tough. That is why I use the Timecode Calculator. It has a 23.98 DROP FRAME setting ONLY for timing out the show. Type in the number in 23.98 non-drop, then switch to drop to see the actual time.
Shane

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Drop Frame vs. Non Drop Frame Timecode in DVDSP3

The manual is rather spare in its discussion of the issue of timecode, but it does say that the first video asset determines whether the timecode in DVDSP is drop frame or non drop frame.
Question 1: Does this refer to the first video asset in the V1 track or the first video asset imported into the project?
Question 2: If video is encoded using Compressor prior to import into DVDSP, is the choice of drop frame or non drop frame set by Compressor, or does it automatically use the timecode inherent in the original video?
Question 3: Does the DVD spec require a particular timecode (or is either acceptable)? In other words, will DVDSP convert non drop frame video assets to drop frame (or vice versa) during the build process in order to conform to spec?
I am having timecode issues and I am trying to narrow down the culprit. It can be either FCP, Compressor or DVDSP, or some combination of the three. Since my timeline in DVDSP has a semicolon separator between the minute and second values, I am assuming DVDSP is operating using drop frame timecode.
How can I confirm the timecode of my video assets? Is there a way to get this information? I tried opening the video in QT and viewing properties but I could not find the info. QT does not seem to display frames so I cannot check the separator to see if it is a semicolon or not.
Thanks in advance for any and all help.
TN

How can I confirm the timecode of my video assets? Is
there a way to get this information? I tried opening
the video in QT and viewing properties but I could
not find the info. QT does not seem to display frames
so I cannot check the separator to see if it is a
semicolon or not.
Thanks in advance for any and all help.
In the browser in Final Cut it will tell you all the information regarding your video assets or clips.
DVDSP lets you pick what time code you want in encode window and will conform your clips accordingly.
May I ask what kind of timecode issues you are having?
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Dropping frames from photo project in FCE

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I pit together a 5 minute photo collage with music on FCE and it is dropping frames. I didn't think doing a simple project like this would be a problem on a Mac Book Pro. What settings should I look at in my system to make sure they are how they need to be. And, how do I restore the dropped frames to the video? Do I just re-insert the photos they were dropped out of?
Also, as you can see I'm a bit new to Mac and FCE. So far when I've run into problems this is the first place I come, I do a search and if that doesn't answer my question I will then post the question. Let me know if there are any other valuable resources (sites, discussion boards) for Mac/FCE newbies like myself. Thanks.

Hi(Bonjour)!
What do you mean by dropping Frame ?
Try to render your sequence before playback.
Michel Boissonneault

What's the deal with Drop-Frame / Non-Drop-Frame Timecode?

I'm having trouble with 30fps Drop-Frame and 30fps Non-Drop-Frame timecode formats! I thought 29.97fps means 30fps Drop-Frame, but now I'm all confused.
I'm working with DSLR footage filmed with a frame rate of 29.97. For example, this one clip is listed as (in Project panel)
Media Start: 11:16:11:23
Media End: 11:22:42:22
Duration: 00:06:31:00
Frame Rate: 29.97fps
If I open this clip directly in Source Monitor, the timecode display (yellow, on lower left corner) says 11:16:11:23 at the beginning and 11:22:42:23 at the end. OK. But if I right-click on the timecode display, the pop-up indicates "Non-Drop-Frame"(!!). If I manually change that to "Drop-Frame", the start and end timecode would become 11:16:52:11 and 11:23:23:23, and the duration display (white, on lower right corner) becomes 6:31:12.
Now I create a new sequence of 1080p30, which has a 29.97fps time base. I right-click the yellow timecode display on the upper left corner of the Timeline, it says "30fps Drop-Frame". I drag the said clip onto the sequence. It occupies a length of 6:31:12. If I double-click the clip to open it in Source Monitor, now the Source Monitor timecode display indicates "Drop-Frame", and the start/end timecodes are 11:16:52:11 and 11:23:23:23. Huh??
Now I apply the "Timecode" effect on the clip. The timecode burn-in says 11:16:51:11 at the first frame and 11:23:23:22 at the last frame. I then go to the Effect Controls tab and look at the Timecode effect. It says
Format: SMPTE
Timecode Source: Media
Time Display: 30 Drop Frame
Just playing around, I switch "Timecode Source" to "Clip" - now the timecode burn-in goes from 00:00:00:00 to 00:06:31:11 - and then I switch it back to "Media". Now the Effect Controls tab says:
Format: SMPTE
Timecode Source: Media
Time Display: 30 Non-Drop Frame
And the timecode burn-in says 11:16:11:23 at the first frame and 11:22:42:22 at the last frame!
HUH??
Just for kickers, I switch "Timecode Source" to "Clip" again... Now "Time Display" stays on "30 Non-Drop Frame", and the timecode burn-in goes from 00:00:00:00 to 00:06:30:29.
What's the REAL length of this clip? Is it drop-frame or non-drop-frame? What are the REAL timecodes for it?
Also in a general sense, since I can change the "Time Display" field in the Timecode effect at any time, and change the Timecode display format of the Timeline at any time... How do I avoid creating mismatching timecodes??
Thanks in advance for any clarification!!

So obviously, only one of them could be "correct" in terms of reflecting what actually happened. The other one is slightly sped-up or slowed-down. You might say "oh that's a tiny difference, it doesn't matter".
Zooropa75, just for matter of clarification I want to make sure you understand that no matter which you use, it won't actually speed up or slow down your video. TC, wether it is non-drop or drop, is only a counting system. For that reason, it doesn't even matter which you use to reference edits, so long as everyone editing uses the same TC basis.
If you want actual time accurate TC, as was already mentioned, use drop-frame.
I'm going to kill two birds here. The "drag clip to new sequence button" action I was referring to in my earlier post is dragging your clip to the icon seen below. It should create a timeline using your videos format.
Also, remember I recommended looking in the manuel for "actual" time used? You can see below a snapshot I took from your cameras manuel. You're not shooting in whole numbers for anything unless you're using the 50hz system and shooting at 50p. That is the ONLY exception. ...and this is good for everyone to remember. Very few US digital cameras shoot frames per second in whole numbers. If it says you're shooting in 24p, 30p, 60p, etc. ad nauseum, you can bet your biscuits it's actually the multi-decimal NTCS counterparts like you see below And that should be your final answer. *chuckle*

How to tell if video is drop frame or non-drop frame in Encore? Need info to use correct SCC file.

Hi,
Thanks in advance. I am using Encore DVD 2.0 to add closed captions to video. I have both a drop frame SCC file and a non-drop frame SCC file. How can I tell which one to use? Can I tell from the way the timecode looks on the timeline? Do I look at the timeline timecode or the source timecode? For example, in a random area of video the timeline says 00;02;50;24 while the source says 00:02:50:20.
Thanks.

Thanks jbowden and Jim for your help. Although I'm still not real clear how Encore notes DF vs NDF (more on that below), I got my problem solved.
Regarding DF vs NDF in Encore DVD...There doesn't seem to be a real consistent method of identifying which is which. For example, Jim suggested that I look in the Project panel for the colons vs semicolons. There, the video file timecode was shown as xx;xx;xx;xx with semicolons, apparently suggesting that it is DF. However, the timeline and audio file listed in the project panel also showed semicolons in the timecode. Then, down on the timeline, the timeline was shown as xx;xx;xx;xx while right next to that it said "Source xx:xx:xx:xx" with colons! So, if I go by the project panel, the video is DF. If I go by what it says down in the timeline, the video is NDF. As it turns out, subtitles and CC only match up if I use the NDF versions of them, not with the DF versions, which indicates that my file was NDF. So, in the end, I'd say that the way the timecode is represented in the project panel didn't mean anything, at least not in this case.

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I am using Premier Elements 11 on Dell XPS 500, 8GB memory, I7-3770 CPU 3.4GHz, Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit. I have encountered one clip that reported dropped frames. Where can find how many frames were dropped? I have transferred several hours of video with no reported dropped frames. I am using a SIIG Firewall card with ADVC55 connected to VCR to transfer some home videos to DVD.

When you use a DV bridge, you'll often get reports of dropped frames because the program is not receiving timecode information from the camcorder, as it would be if you were capturing DV footage.
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Dropped frames-break in timecode

need help fast!
trying to capture an HDCAM tape that is a master. there is no break in timecode on this tape. however, i keep getting either a dropped frames message or TC break message. CPU is Dual 2GHz with 2.5 gig ram going thru blackmagic HD card with 5.5 TB Xserve Raid. shouldn't have any speed problems. everything was running fine til last week, now i can't capture. thanks for any advice.
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Hi Thomas,
I stumbled across your post when doing a search. We're experiencing similar problems here when capturing reasonably large sized clips (10 min), the only variable being the DigiBeta deck we're using. Final Cut will pause over a random section of tape and declare a timecode break. I've checked the tapes back over the suspect sections and the timecode is intact with no breaks. I usually cancel then recapture and it won't see any break at all.
Hardware is a dual 2.7 G5 with 2 Tb SCSI storage and 4.5 Gb RAM. OS is at 10.4.2, QT at 7.0.1. Capturing via Blackmagic DeckLink Extreme at 10bit uncompressed. The drives have no trouble with the data rate whatsoever. The system and deck are protected from power spikes with a Belken UPS.
How did the Blackmagic update and FCP reinstall work out for you? Are you still having the problems?
Cheers, Paul.

Timecode break, dropped frames

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Drop frame - how do i know if my fotage has a drop frame?

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thx

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Playback of .mov files has dropped frames. How can I fix this problem?

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Sudden Dropped Frames Problem with 720p24 material

After sailing along for months with perfect operation from Final Cut Pro, editing 720p24 (I'm still running 5.0.4), I have encountered a mysterious hangup that I can't seem to solve. It probably began shortly after I was doing a test on a new project and mistakenly used a 44khz sound file rather than a 48khz. That project ran fine for a couple of days as I played with it, then abruptly began to drop frames at very particular points. I trashed the sound file and reimported it as a 48khz file and that seemed to fix things for a day or two. Then, to my utter horror, when I opened a very large ongoing project that I needed to tweak, I found that the dropped file problem has corrupted my entire FCP operation. I have tried changing various settings, such as unlimited RT, and trashed the preferences as well, but none of the straightforward cures seems to make a difference. I've also looked at all the suggestions in the Apple dropped frames article at [docs.info.apple.com]. I have never had a problem with dropped frames prior to this.
My scratch disk is a raided SATA drive with plenty of space to spare. This setup has worked flawlessly since July. I have jumped around over the past 10 days from work on old SD projects to 720p24 projects and have been changing settings here and there to accomodate this. Nothing else seems to have been changed that may account for the glitch.
I have not reinstalled the software.
Anything that comes to mind as a logical next step would be most appreciated!

Yes during panning or zooming I can see that frames are dropping in the stats panel.
I'm encoding at 500kbps video + 48 audio, outputting only one stream.
The content in the input monitor shows exactly what the cam is seeing, with the pan and/or zoom correctly displayed. On the output monitor side the action will freeze momentarily when frames are dropped. Then the display will skip to the point where no more frames are being dropped.
The native frame rate for the cam is 29.97, but as an output, averaging in the dropped frames the rate may drop as low as 27 or 28fps according to the stats panel. The difference being the number of dropped frames.
FMLE is installed on a Dell Studio 15 with 4 GB RAM, which I would think would be plenty adequete.
Thanks for your response.
Adninjastrator

Media Manager Trim changes timecode to Drop-frame.

Have a project with footage shot on AJA Kona Ki at 29.97Psf using Apple ProRes 422(HQ). Timecode base Non-Drop-frame time-of-day timecode. Editing in CS6.0.2 on Mac OS 10.7. Trying to trim project using media manager so that only the used media can get color-graded using Filmlight's Baselight. Once the project is trimmed and new trimmed media is created, we export an EDL from the new sequence and conform in the Baselight.
However it seems Premiere is changing the timecode of the new clips to Drop-frame timecode. The EDL seems to reflect this and the Baselight can't conform. We've imported the trimmed media into FCP 7 and confirmed that it sees the new media as Drop-frame timecode. What the heck?
Can anyone help to replicate this issue and confirm if we're seeing what we're seeing. Think it is a huge bug of some kind. If I can get someone to help confim, I'll submit a bug report.
While on the topic of drop-frame. Premiere also seems to think is needs to compensate for DF code when you import a sequence from a Premiere project straight into Adobe Media Encoder. For instance a sequence that is set to start at 01:00:00:00 imports into AME with starting timecode of 01:00:03:15. Or at least it's always 3:15 off from whatever timecode the sequence is set to start at. That sounds like the offset needed to compensate for the difference between NDF and DF code. This makes bringing one sequence in and setting in and outs while in AME a very big pain. Such as a sequence with 10-30sec spots starting at the even minute. Can anyone help to confirm this issue as well?
System info:
2x2.66 6-core Xeon.
32 GB Ram
NVIDIA Quadro 4000 for Mecury playback
OS 10.7.4
Thanks for the help.

I just looked at the data in the edl. Exported also a new edl from premiere.
In the Premiere edl, there is many FCM at start, so I added one in the AVID, and bang, project is starting correctly.
Before : (From Avid)
TITLE: TEST 720P 29,97 EDL
FCM: NON-DROP FRAME
data.....
After editing:
TITLE: TEST 720P 29,97 EDL
FCM: DROP FRAME
FCM: NON-DROP FRAME
data...

How easily does iMovie drop frames?

I'm a new (very satisfied) Mac user, and I've just recently started making DVDs of my several miniDV tapes. My question is how easily dropped frames occur in iMovie when importing DV video from a camcorder? Up till now I haven't experienced any problems, as I've been careful not to do anything else apart from browsing the web while importing video. When working on a Windows PC platform I've often experienced dropped frames when multi-tasking, but the software I used had the option of automatically stopping the importing on a dropped frame, so I could quickly corrent the problem. iMovie doesn't seem to have a similar function, so dropped frames could sneek into my project unless I always checked the imported video thorougly.
So, in your experience, how much multi-tasking can my MacBook handle (it's the newest model, and also has 2GB of memory) without dropping frames? I can probably browse the web, but can I for example watch a video or listen to music without having to worry about dropped frames?
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You should be fine multitasking with your specs. I also often surf the web while iMovie imports an hour's worth of video!
But when you get to the editing etc, I would close other applications. That also applies particularly to when iDVD is rendering/burning.

How timecode counts in 720p24 drop frame ?

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