I really miss a true white point adjustment

I've been trying to minimize the cases where I need to escape from Lightroom to Photoshop, but the lack of a true white point adjustment is frustrating. About 10% of the time, after I've adjusted exposure and recovery to give me the best image it only reaches 85 to 95 percent of the maximum white value and I have to export the image to Photoshop to finish the job with Curves. Since psd files take up about five times the space of raw files, this is really annoying, not to mention a waste of time. Is there any way to duplicate the true linear range expansion that I can get with Photoshop,
or is there a chance of a true white point adjustment being added to Lightroom (and camera raw, I suppose).

I'm not trying to move it to the left, I want to move it into the forbidden zone to the right. I'm trying to get a uniform stretch of the whole histogram, with all tones from black to white affected by the adjustment. The Lightroom adjustments only allow me to adjust zones. The Photoshop curves adjustment lets me move a white slider to the left until the top white values just clip. The equivalent operation in Lightroom is to move the exposure slider to the right, but this compresses the white values and destroys some of the white details. The only way I have been able to get what I want is to expand the white values by moving the exposure slider to the left until the white details pop out, then use Photoshop to uniformly stretch everything back to true white.

Similar Messages

Colour Calibration / White Point setting - Is Imac Display really professional quality

I am trying to calibrate my imac 27" using i1 Display2 calibration software. I am trying to set a traget of 6500 using the software but it advises the current is only 5600 and suggests moving the RGB sliders to get this current white point up to my 6500 target. Unfortunatly i have no idea where i find these sliders on my imac. Can anyone advise how i change my current white point to get to the 6500 target?
Also, on the brightness issue, does shades work to reduce my brightness or will it simply interfere with my colour calibration?
Finally, i was going to use my iMac for professional photography. (Mainly on line but some print work required). Honestly, is the iMac display up to the job or should i consider changing
Thanks
Gary

Corbybhy, the glossy screen is the biggest and silliest myth out there. Really.
I have been a professional art director & designer for over 26 years, and by the way, for many years my high end professional CRTS were made of glass (and glossy). Another myth is that the screens cannot be calibrated, and are too bright. Hogwash. I use Spyder3Pro and have had few problems, guessing your device will be the same. Actually, the monitors seem to stay consistant for a heck of a lot longer than the old high end CRTs did. In the old days, most professionals calibrated to 5000k, but these days 6500k is the standard.
The amount of MISINFORMATION that is being spewed always amazes me. If you can keep your lighting consistant and somewhat dim, your life will be easier. Reflections are simply not a major issue, and are also overblown as a issue (by the way, my iMac sits next to a window, I just use shades to dim the ambient light).
I work mostly in print, and produce mostly publications, advertising & marketing materials. I have ZERO issues with my screen matching my proofs. ZERO. I do a huge amount of imaging, retouching & post-processing... all from my 27" iMac.

Setting white point in LR

I'm almost sure I'm missing something but I cannot find a solution. I'm using LR (currently 2.2) for quite a while (since 1.2) but I simply cannot find an easy, user friedly and predictable way how to set a white point of edited pictures.
In PS, CR, DPP and most other editing SW and RAW processors, there two typical easy tools how to set the white point.
1) a white point picker which (when used) defines a desired tone as white and the relevant SW then redistributes the tones accordingly;
2) in "levels" or "curves" dialog (or their equivalents it is possible to move the "White level" treshold below which the remaining tones are redistributed accordingly - the iterface varies (sometimes it is the border of the histogram or curve diagram that can be moved (DPP), sometimes it is the slider in histogram or curve diagram setting this limit
botw ways generally lead to the same and quite uniform result. I.e. I'm usually able to get almost identical result by setting white point in PS, DPP, CR, .... and other SW by such simple operation when working over identical picture data.
However in LR it is virtually impossible to achieve similar result in LR. No white point picker, no slider enabling setting the white limit, no chance to move borders in the histogram chart. The only available tools for this purpose are
"Exposure" and "Brightness". None of them providing for the desired functionality alone - their combination giving sometimes acceptable but hardly predictable results (definitely not as predictable as achieved e.g. in PS by simple and single move of white limit slider in "level" dialogue or equivalent step in CR.
Do I really miss something important (I hope so) in this respect or is LR completly lacking this (for me really core/basic) functionality present in all other photo and RAW editting SW I know - even from Adobe?
thanks

I agree with the original poster - I find it troublesome to set the white point in an image. In a situation where a traditional (PS, Aperture) levels control would make it convenient to push a particular tone to white, I find myself going back and forth between exposure and the tone curve a fair amount. Another description of what I want, effectively, is a 'recovery' slider that goes up as well as down.
(See end of post for replies to a few specific points.)
An example:
Here is the original image, with its histogram and tone curve - black to middle gray:
I want to push the small hatch/door to white, but that also overexposes my middle grays (I haven't yet touched the tone curve):
So now I go to the tone curve, and pull down both darks and lights:
However, at this point I've lost my whites (they are not quite clipped any more); and probably more importantly, since the tone curve is at the extreme low values, I have little working room or control.
Rather than working together or providing complementary functions, in this case exposure and the tone curve, to me, seem to be fighting; it requires back-and-forth to get the desired effect.
(To be clear, most of the time - that is, when my white point starts out more or less where I want it - being able to drag the histogram and smoothly-transitioned segments of the tone curve is brilliantly easy and useful. It's specifically the exposure control's nonlinear behavior/effect that I dislike, as it makes it difficult to adjust near-white tones.)
Responding to specifics:
> Also, hold the ALT key (David Edwards)
Cool! (However, not a fix for this issue.)
> the controls themselves are not linear (Lee Jay)
> attempts to preserve highlights (Lee Jay)
> the exposure slider is almost exactly equivalent to the white point slider in Photoshop's levels/curves (Joa V. L.)
I think this is the root of the issue, for me - the exposure control is being intelligent in a way to protect hilights, which is counter to my intent. My experience leads me to disagree strongly with Joa's comment (though I would be very happy to discover I was wrong) - my problem is specifically that adjusting exposure up (brightening the image with exposure) affects tones less, the brighter they are.
> I need to decrease the Brightness (Henry_Deer)
> you may need to generate a higher-contrast tone curve and work with that (Lee Jay)
The brightness adjustment seems analogous to my use of the tone curve, though it's an alternate approach I haven't tried. However, both seem to suffer from the 'several rounds' problem.
Edited to reply to a few specific points

Local white balance adjustment tool

I really like the new local white balance adjustment tool. If I could change something will be to give a real color temperature to the tool instead of a number from -100 to 100. Let me give you an example of how I used it today.
I forgot to bring some gels for my flashes for a photo shoot. I was using the flashes to illuminate the foreground and I had fluorescent lightening on the background. It was the perfect opportunity to try the new tool. I knew exactly what the color temperature for both front and back were. I applied the background color temperature of 3200k to the picture and when to locally change the foreground. At this point I was guessing what it should be at. My monitor is color calibrated but I was under fluorescent lights with my laptop. Instead I could have added +2200k or dialed 5500k to the local adjustment tool.
Please let me know if you need more information.

I'm sorry I found another discussion about this topic already. Shame on me I didn't do a more thorough search on it before.
You can find that discussion here
http://forums.adobe.com/message/4138582#4138582

White Balance Adjustment question

I have about 800 images from a wedding, and am now ready to go thru them and adjust the white balance.
However, am I missing something?
I click on the white balance option, then the dropper, then click on the image to adjust the white balance ...
But, when I go to the next image, I have to THEN click on white balance AGAIN then the dropper, then the image etc etc etc???!!!
Can I just click on the dropper once, then scroll thru the images to adjust without having to ACTIVATE the white balance option again and again and again?
When there are 800 images, adding in those extra two steps is slowing me down big time.
Does this make sense?
Much appreciated!

So, I wanted to adjust each image individually but
without always having to click on White Balance
Adjustment each and every time. I really just want
to click thru and eye dropper the images.
Is this possible, or do I have to always go to the
adjustment pane and let the thing know I want white
balance adjustment after each image ...
I'm afraid the interface lets you down here. What's unfortunate is that there is no keyboard shortcut for the WB tool. There is for Edge Sharpen, for instance (ctrl-S) -- which means that for each image you can leave the HUD open and very quickly bring in the tool so its standard preset will be applied. It would be awfully nice to have that fast, mouseless capability with other tools.
(Query: since you can't get rid of default tools, which is why they're grayed out in the "+" menu on the HUD, why do they have keyboard shortcuts?? Pressing the shortcut doesn't toggle the tool off-and-on, or anything. Why do Color and Highlights & Shadows have ctrl-key shortcuts, and Crop and Straighten have non-ctrl-key shortcuts? Mysteries, mysteries.)
It might be most efficient to figure out what most images need, lift and stamp that setting, then go back and nudge or cancel the WB correction on the others. Depending on the numbers and proportion, of course.

White point of the Qosmio G40 monitor

I need to calibrate my monitor for my G40 but the white point information is missing. Does anyone know what the white point is?

Hi,
so, why do you need to calibrate your monitor? I mean, its a TFT and I dont know any reason why to do it. Maybe a better description or explanation of your situation would be REALLY useful for those which want to help you.
By the way: I couldnt find any information about "white point" so it depends from the application you use, to find out what this "white point" information is...
Would appreciate some feedback from you.
Greets

Query Re: 'Show Clipping for Black/White Points'

Good morning.
Please can anyone help me with a query.
I have recently come across the 'Show Clipping for Black/White Points' in Levels and Curves and it's driving me mad!
Until recently, I have always opened raw images in Camera Raw or Lightroom, checked for clipping there, and if need be use the recovery or blacks sliders to recover detail. I then open my 16 bit image image in PS in ProPhotoRGB, using levels to make any alterations. I would check to see in the histogram if all is ok and left it there. It all felt pretty straight forward.
Now though I've taken to holding the alt button and going through each channel only to find that clipping occurs every time I begin to move the slider; however small.
The only way I can avoid this clipping is by leaving the levels bar alone altogether. Then there is no clipping in any channels but the image looks flat, and the histogram shows up big gaps on both sides (at least to the naked eye).
I always thought the idea was to move the sliders so there aren't big gaps on either side.
But if I move the slider say from 255 to 254, a red dot will appear, to 250, a few clusters, and by the time I've adjusted the levels to where I think it should be at 230 (based on the histogram) there will be clipping in all colours, all over the place!
I don't know what I'm meant to do. It's more frustrating because I thought I had dealt with the clipping in Camera Raw. Is there a way to avoid this whilst still moving the sliders to where I want them to be?
Thanks for taking the time to read this.

c.pfaffenbichler wrote:
So why are you pressing alt when dragging the Levels handles if the information this provides is not to your liking?
Good point! That's what I've been asking myself.
I think I was happier when I was blissfully unaware of clipping, brightening away to my heart's content! It feels as if the more I discover the less I really know.
Thanks D Fosse for the tip on curves. Much appreciated.

Please add white balance adjustment to brush tool!!

Please add to the brush tool the ability to adjust white balance. I know you can currently paint a color over areas, but I would like to see a true white balance control in a brush. This would be quite useful for wedding or event photographers who shoot quickly in varied lighting often without flash.

More specifically, I would like to paint at 5500k or 3500k or whatever color temp I choose, measure, detect, or feel so inclined to. Like I said before, I realize the paint with tint works, but painting a white balance would be much easier. I never mentioned accurate. Accurate photographs in mixed lighting usually look bad (especially when you mix in fluorescent). My clients don't want "accurate" photos, they want what they remembered the event to look like. I don't feel the need to suggest the current features fail in any way to make a suggested improvement upon those features. The current (LR2) demosiac engine works well, but LR3 got an overhaul. Was demosiac in LR1 and LR2 a failure? I believe my suggestion is consistent with the intent of LR. While painting a warming or cooling color would certainly achieve the desired results, painting a preset color balance or manual temp/tint would be quicker. It makes for a better workflow.

Setting White Points in Camera Raw

When setting white points in Adobe Camera Raw, while holding down Alt (on a PC), are the red marks what I should look for? Because white marks also appear? Which ones are relevant for the white point?

ACR doesn’t work that way. There is an eyedropper for the overall white-balance that you can set by clicking on a relatively bright, neutral area, but there aren’t black and white-point eyedroppers. But, what is clipped black or white is determined by the output colorspace you have set at the bottom and you can get some idea of what will be clipped black and white by turning on the clipping indicators and watching for the areas you’d be eye-droppering on (the black and white patches in your grayscale) to start showing the clipping color overlay for black and white, but any further toning adjustments will move data in and out of what is darker than black and lighter than white so what is clipped for output will change as you fiddle with the various toning sliders.
The reason things are different: In PS, when you set a black-point and white-point in Levels and click Ok, the data below and above those is thrown away and that is the starting point for the next adjustment. In ACR, things are non-destructive and all the adjustments occur simultaneously, rather than sequentially as in PS, and no clipping occurs until you create the output file. This means that the pixels that are darker than your black-point and lighter than your white-point are still there, and can be moved into the black-to-white range if you do further toning adjustments. Having more headroom of the pixels that are outside the black-to-white range is good because you won’t get the posterization or banding that occurs when colors and levels are clipped after each adjustment in PS.
Can you describe what you intend your overall workflow to be on an image: how much adjusting will occur in ACR and how much, if any, might happen in PS, after the image is opened into PS from ACR, or opened from a file saved from ACR? There might be other ways to approach what you’re trying to accomplish.

Setting black and white points

Dear friends,
I am shooting some pics with a "Whibal like" target card which has a white, black and 18% neutral grey shades.
In Camera Raw I I can easily correct the white balance with the provided eyedropper on the top row by clicking on the grey target.
I cannot find any way to set the black and the white points though and have to resort doing that for EACH picture in Photoshop via a levels or a curves adjustment layers.
It would be great to be able to set those in Bridge/Camera Raw so that I can then copy those settings to other similar shots.
Any ideas ? Thank you
Marco

I am having the same problem, although its now Camera Raw 7 - where can you set the white, mid, and black points in Camera Raw with the eyedropper tool. It seems you have to create a new psd file in Photoshop to do this, which does not make much sense since it is a basic levels adjustment. I am batch editing a bunch of CR2 files, and I just need to select the black, mid and white points on a grayscale that I've shot in the images - is there a way to do this in Camera Raw 7? Thanks!!

White Point Presets?

Hello all, I am using the trial version of Aperture2 and so far, I really like running a native pro image editor. I was using Lightroom (still am, mainly at the moment), and it has built in white point presets (daylight, shade, tungsten, etc). Does Aperture have this too? I was looking and I have to admit I haven't looked too thoroughly, but it's not so easy to find if it's there.
Thanks for any help you can offer!

there are no built in white balance presets... but you can create your own ...
here is a post on a blog that i used to make my white balance presets ...
http://blogs.oreilly.com/aperture/2006/11/create-your-own-white-balance-1.html

CS4 Camera RAW White Point

Setting White Point in Camera RAW 5.7 CS4
I am trying to make pictures out of scanned old slides/negatives which often have colour casts.
Some pictures do not have a suitable white spot for setting the point.
I often find that the "As Shot" or any of the default settings do not look right.
Please what is the best way to set the white point for these ?

Photoshop, or even Elements, would have more options than Lightroom for fixing colors or a color-cast in images that have not been added by the scanner, but is already in the images, themselves, a color cast usually caused by different rates of deterioration of the various pigments in the photo paper or film.
Trying the different Options in the Photoshop Levels command can be helpful.
You can tweak the RGB channels differently in Photoshop Curves.
Elements has a Remove Color Cast command that works for simple cases and is similar to the Auto WB in LR or ACR.
Sometimes you need to duplicate one of the color channels and substitute it for one of the other color channels. For example if the red is entirely faded, then duplicate the blue channel and paste it into the red channel and see how things look, or perhaps use the green channel, instead, depending on the mix of colors in the original. There are techniques for adjusting skintones at the expense of other colors in the image.
There are tutorials for fixing underwater images that would be somewhat applicable to photos heavily faded by prolonged exposure to sunlight or indoor UV sources.
Tweaking the HSL sliders in LR or ACR can be helpful if the image is mostly fixed by prior adjustments.

Could not use white point tool

during adjustment in Curves, error as could not use white point tool because of a program error. how to resove?

You should ask in the forum for the program you are using
The Cloud forum is not about using individual programs
The Cloud forum is about the Cloud as a delivery & install process
If you will start at the Forums Index https://forums.adobe.com/welcome
You will be able to select a forum for the specific Adobe product(s) you use
Click the "down arrow" symbol on the right (where it says All communities) to open the drop down list and scroll

A white point question ...

Most of the chromaticity diagrams for RGB color spaces show the D65 illuminant as a white point. White point is where all three primaries are equal in intensity, so it is a neutral color at every luminance level.
What about D65? ... is it an exactly neutral color illuminant?
Or, it means that, if we look at the chromaticity diagram under the illuminant D65, the white point of the color space takes the color of this illuminant and for this reason, white points are labeled as D65 in chromaticity diagrams?

AttilaHan wrote:
Ok, my question was ... D65 illuminant is really a neutral color?…
Of course not—by definition:
CIE Standard Illuminant D65 (sometimes written D65[1][2]) is a commonly-usedstandard illuminant defined by the International Commission on Illumination (CIE).[3]It is part of the D series of illuminants that try to portray standard illumination conditions at open-air in different parts of the world.
D65 corresponds roughly to a midday sun in Western Europe / Northern Europe, hence it is also called a daylight illuminant. As any standard illuminant is represented as a table of averaged spectrophotometric data, any light source which statistically has the same relative spectral power distribution (SPD) can be considered a D65 light source. There are no actual D65 light sources, only simulators. The quality of a simulator can be assessed with the CIE Metamerism Index.[4][5]
The CIE positions D65 as the standard daylight illuminant:
[D65] is intended to represent average daylight and has a correlated colour temperature of approximately 6500 K. CIE standard illuminant D65 should be used in all colorimetric calculations requiring representative daylight, unless there are specific reasons for using a different illuminant. Variations in the relative spectral power distribution of daylight are known to occur, particularly in the ultraviolet spectral region, as a function of season, time of day, and geographic location.
—ISO 10526:1999/CIE S005/E-1998, CIE Standard Illuminants for Colorimetry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminant_D65

White point / black point

Just like with Photoshop's Levels and Curves I would like to see a White point and Black point setting ability.

I'm aware of that, but I find that many times it's an easy way (in PS) to determine what I really want to be white (the white of an eye, for instance), at least as a starting point. Using the LR exposure slider to do so is less convenient and doesn't give me that instant and exact control.
Since I am very often using black as a background, it would be convenient to pinpoint that as black.
And now we're into it: why just not call the LR selector what it really is: a Neutral selector? Its shifts colors to neutral grey like in PS.
B.T.W.: I also often use a neutral grey background (18% reflection) and that's where the "White balance selector" is of a very great help.

I really miss a true white point adjustment

Similar Messages

Maybe you are looking for